My grandmother is a Bishop. *Shurg* :-\*Shrug
Son you have to get out more.... ;D ;D ;D
Shoot, I'm Bishop Vangela! As soon as I finish making my payments to TitlesandAnointings.com, LOL!!!
Naw, the female bishop thing doesn't work for me, but I mind my business and let the people that hold those titles deal with God and their congregations.
On another note, what is a "hand clap of praise" or worse yet, a "hand of praise"? LOL!
On another note, what is a "hand clap of praise" or worse yet, a "hand of praise"? LOL!
I just have one question. When are we gonna get the first Christian or Black Pope? ;D ;D ;D Who's gonna be the first one bold enough to obtain that title? Back in the day in B'ham we had a DJ on the radio station name The Black Pope but that don't count.
Uh, oh. :-(
Ooooooo, I'm gonna tell Big Daddy!
Shoot, I'm Bishop Vangela! As soon as I finish making my payments to TitlesandAnointings.com, LOL!!!
Shoot, I'm Bishop Vangela! As soon as I finish making my payments to TitlesandAnointings.com, LOL!!!
Naw, the female bishop thing doesn't work for me, but I mind my business and let the people that hold those titles deal with God and their congregations.
I'm like TJ I don't agree with a lot of stuff people is doing but I don't concern myself with it, cause I have actually seen an organization that had a female presiding bishop. I didnt understand it but hey, she aint my pastor/bishop so why should I care.
And I know quite a few bishops and apostles that USED to pastor churches but have retired cause they was old and knew it wasnt going to be too long before they said goodbye to the saints, so instead of leaving their congregations and jurisdictions in a mess when they died, they retired and appointed somebody to take their places. Unless we talking about bishops and apostles that are too young to be retiring and they dont pastor churches.
funny, ms wolfy just asked me about female bishops and pastors. I've served under two in my life, wont do it again.
IMO, just something in a man that was put in him, that a woman aint got to do that job.
aint sayin they cant pastor, just cant pastor ME.
You know you stole that line from me. Where's my royalty check??? >:(
you take EBT cards?
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh SNAP!!!!!! :o :o :o Yo dude, you get MADDDD points for that!!!
I used to LOVE King Vitaman!!! Do they still make that?? That might be just the thing to bring me back to the cereal aisle! :D :D :D
There are plenty of organizations with female presiding bishops (or apostles). I'm with you (and Teej and Nessa). It ain't my church, so I don't care.
And yeah, I'm not talking about retirees. I'm talking about people - of any age - who become bishops or apostles, but don't pastor or oversee churches (and many of them aren't even a member of any church).
I just have one question. When are we gonna get the first Christian or Black Pope? ;D ;D ;D Who's gonna be the first one bold enough to obtain that title? Back in the day in B'ham we had a DJ on the radio station name The Black Pope but that don't count.
Just because something exists in the pulpit doesn't make it right.
Do you mean an african-american/african pope? Or are you referring to the superior general of the society of jesus?
I'm referring to how long will it be until someone who is outside of the Catholic denomination or any other denomination that has an office/title of Pope established start calling themselves Pope such and such.
example: A pentacostal bishop having the audacity to call him or herself Pope. And after that boundry is crossed I guess sci-fi religious titles would come next like the ones used on Star Trek. ;D ;D can you imagine? I'm no longer Bishop Hasmo you can now call me Pope HaZ ;D ;D
I'm referring to how long will it be until someone who is outside of the Catholic denomination or any other denomination that has an office/title of Pope established start calling themselves Pope such and such.
example: A pentacostal bishop having the audacity to call him or herself Pope. And after that boundry is crossed I guess sci-fi religious titles would come next like the ones used on Star Trek. ;D ;D can you imagine? I'm no longer Bishop Hasmo you can now call me Pope HaZ ;D ;D
Ok, here's my problem: We all are of the same agreement about women Pastors and Bishops, and so forth, I mena the Bible is clear on the matter, (1st Timothy 3:1-2 says "1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer,(which is interperated as Elder, Pastor, or Bishop) it is a fine work he desires to do.
2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,"
Now it goes on in the other verse to name other things, but we all get the picture. What I don't get is phrases like "Well she aint my Pastor" or "It aint my church, so I don't care."
Folks we have to care, we are all part of one BODY!!! i'm not saying go looking for all these churches violating God's precise for these positoins, but when we are confronted by it we are to refute it with the Word just as Jesus did. Regardless of what we think, we as Christains look at ourselves as seperated sometimes, which is sad, but the world outside doesn't. And if they don't see a united Body, the enemy will take that and run with it. We need to pray DAILY that these fellow brothers and sisters come to know the truth, and deal with the issues. When we meet people who say they Pastor is so and so, we need to lovingly let them know the truth from the Word's perspective. Then let them decide on what to do, because as it was mentioned, people will do what they want to do any way, but it doesn't mean the we have to be passive.
I don't agree with that.
I'm personally not down for sharing my negative opinion with complete strangers who didn't ask - particularly when it relates to something that doesn't affect my life.
Maybe this goes back to the stand in vs. stand against discussion....
Do you proselytize your non-Christian friends? If so, then this would be the same thing. If not, then you are probably like me.
I don't actively proselytize. I do it passively. If someone asks me a question, then I tell them. If no one is asking me anything, then I may be doing the wrong thing. ?/?
Folks we have to care, we are all part of one BODY!!! i'm not saying go looking for all these churches violating God's precise for these positoins, but when we are confronted by it we are to refute it with the Word just as Jesus did. Regardless of what we think, we as Christains look at ourselves as seperated sometimes, which is sad, but the world outside doesn't. And if they don't see a united Body, the enemy will take that and run with it. We need to pray DAILY that these fellow brothers and sisters come to know the truth, and deal with the issues. When we meet people who say they Pastor is so and so, we need to lovingly let them know the truth from the Word's perspective. Then let them decide on what to do, because as it was mentioned, people will do what they want to do any way, but it doesn't mean the we have to be passive.
A Bishop is defined as a spiritual supervisor, overseer..
Bishop is the only gender specific leader I have read in the bible... a woman CAINT be the "Husband of one wife"...
I dont agree with women being Bishops cause the bible say so... I do believe we can be pastors, prophets, ministers, apostles etc.
...but doesn't the bible also say that a woman can't be over a man? I'm just saying.
...but doesn't the bible also say that a woman can't be over a man? I'm just saying.
1 Tim 2:12 states "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Usurp is to seize and hold (a position, office, power, etc.) by force or without legal right...
That verse has nothting to do with a woman NOT being a leader in the church.... different translations of this verse can be inturpreted as a woman NOT being a leader or have athourity over a man...
The context of that scripture comes from women, during those times, in the church talking gossiping and carrying on... not paying atention to what was being taught... Basically being disruptive in church...
1 Tim 2:12 states "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Usurp is to seize and hold (a position, office, power, etc.) by force or without legal right...
That verse has nothting to do with a woman NOT being a leader in the church.... different translations of this verse can be inturpreted as a woman NOT being a leader or have athourity over a man...
The context of that scripture comes from women, during those times, in the church talking gossiping and carrying on... not paying atention to what was being taught... Basically being disruptive in church...
Yeah that's what I've heard because traditionally I've been one that is against women pastors. These days it's more about personal preference for me. I personally would not serve in a church under a woman pastor HOWEVER I will not knock those who would. At the end of the day, no one has the "correct" interpretation on this issue and no one probably ever will so at the end of the day, I would view this as a "to each it's own" issue. It also depends on if you interpret the bible literally or within its context. To me, that can totally shape which view you have on this issue.
FTR, I've always thought that the use of "Bishop" in that vese (1 Timothy 3) is used interchangably with "overseer, elder, maybe pastor".... :-\
.... Actually, that would be Webster or Merriam's definition, or some other secular definition. In this particular verse, "usurp" means "exercise" or "govern" according to two different lexicons.
Furthermore, according to the literal translation, that part (usurp authority) of the scripture doesn't pertain to the church, but to marriage. "...and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness" - YLT....
... At the end of the day, no one has the "correct" interpretation on this issue and no one probably ever will so at the end of the day, I would view this as a "to each it's own" issue. It also depends on if you interpret the bible literally or within its context. To me, that can totally shape which view you have on this issue.
Ursurp... in any definition means to take by force... seize... take the place of forcefully...
The word "bishop" in that scripture does mean "overseer" "elder" or "one who is in charge, or exercises oversight." So, if we will hold to the idea that "he that findeth a wife findeth a good thing" must mean that only a man can find a woman, and not the other way around, then we must also accept that "if a man desire the office a bishop, he desireth a good work" means that only a man can be a bishop, overseer, elder, pastor, or exercise oversight.
At the end of the day, no one has the "correct" interpretation on this issue and no one probably ever will so at the end of the day, I would view this as a "to each it's own" issue. It also depends on if you interpret the bible literally or within its context. To me, that can totally shape which view you have on this issue.[/
I agree.
I don't believe it is biblical for a women to be an overseer.
I understand what you are saying, but I can't get with the whole "Literally and within its context". I believe that God's word means the same as it did, when it was written. I believe that it is simple and straight forward.
this whole Women Bishop thing could easierly be fixed if we had more men in the church... {clears thoat and summersaults off the soap box}
I have been thinking about this topic, but not just as it relates to church. Men, in general, in American culture, are absent. Marriages aren't working. People are having wanton sex. Children are being born out of wedlock....on purpose.
I would say that if the man is the head, then ultimately this is our fault. This may be a vicious circle too, since women can't truly teach a young boy how to be a man. No matter how you try, there will be a hole, if the father isn't there.
I'll go with the adage that it takes two to tango. I mean we talk about the man being the head and all; at the same time, where are the Proverbs 31 women? *kanyeshrug*
Can you have a Proverbs 31 woman without a man? Didn't it start with us?
This reminds me of an episode of Wife Swap. This lady was controlling her house, and the dude was not doing much about it. He was just like *kanyeshrug*. It took another lady coming to his house saying that he needs to be a man, and act like the king, to wake him up...I guess. When they got around the table, he said what he wanted them to do, and his wife was like *psft* We'll talk about it later. He was like Naw. I'm the king, we're doing it. When they revisited them later, they seemed to have a better relationship. I was like ?/?. ;D
I saw that episode. It was a few years ago, right? I remember that very clearly.
I have been thinking about this topic, but not just as it relates to church. Men, in general, in American culture, are absent. Marriages aren't working. People are having wanton sex. Children are being born out of wedlock....on purpose.
I would say that if the man is the head, then ultimately this is our fault. This may be a vicious circle too, since women can't truly teach a young boy how to be a man. No matter how you try, there will be a hole, if the father isn't there.
I'll go with the adage that it takes two to tango. I mean we talk about the man being the head and all; at the same time, where are the Proverbs 31 women? *kanyeshrug*
The crazy thing is that, in order for it to shift back into place, men have to be present in the homes. (Not to jump all over) I've learned, from my experience, that many women probably would become that Proverbs 31 woman, if they had a man that would pastor his church (household) right.
The crazy thing is that, in order for it to shift back into place, men have to be present in the homes. (Not to jump all over) I've learned, from my experience, that many women probably would become that Proverbs 31 woman, if they had a man that would pastor his church (household) right.
Since we're talking about the Proverbs 31 woman...
An LGMer told me a few months ago that I was a "real" Proverbs 31 woman. I think he was just high off my good cookin... LOL! He said "man, all these women out here talking 'bout they Proverbs 31 women; they don't even know what a Proverbs 31 woman is. You're a REAL Proverbs 31 woman." ( ;) betcha thought I forgot that... LOL). Of course at the moment, I took that as a major compliment because (a) he's not easily impressed by people of God, and (b) I know that a "Proverbs 31 woman" is one of virtue and integrity, who walks with honor and dignity and loves the Lord and all that. But that night, I had to look it up again and read it for myself to see exactly what he was saying about me. I'm so glad I did because it had been a minute since I read it, and I suspect that a lot of women (and men) really have no idea what a Proverbs 31 woman is.
We like to assign that title to every woman who is God-fearing, celibate, and knows how to cook. But, she isn't just one who loves the Lord and is virtuous. She is a business woman. She is a planner. She is organized. She encourages her husband, and does her part to guard his reputation; she represents him well and always takes pride in her appearance. She manages her household and uses her talent to earn entrepreneurial income. She is dependable, smart and honest. She knows how to make clothing, plant her own vegetables, and doesn't sleep all day and night: she isn't lazy and doesn't seek out conveniences in place of quality for her family. She is wise, kind, Godly and skilled, and doesn't get involved in idleness (foolishness, including gossip and laziness). Her work speaks for her and she has a solid, honorable reputation.
The Bible says (AMP):
10 A capable, intelligent, and virtuous woman--who is he who can find her? She is far more precious than jewels and her value is far above rubies or pearls.(D)
11 The heart of her husband trusts in her confidently and relies on and believes in her securely, so that he has no lack of [honest] gain or need of [dishonest] spoil.
12 She comforts, encourages, and does him only good as long as there is life within her.
13 She seeks out wool and flax and works with willing hands [to develop it].
14 She is like the merchant ships loaded with foodstuffs; she brings her household's food from a far [country].
15 She rises while it is yet night and gets [spiritual] food for her household and assigns her maids their tasks.(E)
16 She considers a [new] field before she buys or accepts it [expanding prudently and not courting neglect of her present duties by assuming other duties]; with her savings [of time and strength] she plants fruitful vines in her vineyard. [S. of Sol. 8:12.]
17 She girds herself with strength [spiritual, mental, and physical fitness for her God-given task] and makes her arms strong and firm.
18 She tastes and sees that her gain from work [with and for God] is good; her lamp goes not out, but it burns on continually through the night [of trouble, privation, or sorrow, warning away fear, doubt, and distrust].
19 She lays her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She opens her hand to the poor, yes, she reaches out her filled hands to the needy [whether in body, mind, or spirit].
21 She fears not the snow for her family, for all her household are doubly clothed in scarlet.(F)
22 She makes for herself coverlets, cushions, and rugs of tapestry. Her clothing is of linen, pure and fine, and of purple [such as that of which the clothing of the priests and the hallowed cloths of the temple were made].(G)
23 Her husband is known in the [city's] gates, when he sits among the elders of the land.(H)
24 She makes fine linen garments and leads others to buy them; she delivers to the merchants girdles [or sashes that free one up for service].
25 Strength and dignity are her clothing and her position is strong and secure; she rejoices over the future [the latter day or time to come, knowing that she and her family are in readiness for it]!
26 She opens her mouth in skillful and godly Wisdom, and on her tongue is the law of kindness [giving counsel and instruction].
27 She looks well to how things go in her household, and the bread of idleness (gossip, discontent, and self-pity) she will not eat.(I)
28 Her children rise up and call her blessed (happy, fortunate, and to be envied); and her husband boasts of and praises her, [saying],
29 [c]Many daughters have done virtuously, nobly, and well [with the strength of character that is steadfast in goodness], but you excel them all.
30 Charm and grace are deceptive, and beauty is vain [because it is not lasting], but a woman who reverently and worshipfully fears the Lord, she shall be praised!
31 Give her of the fruit of her hands, and let her own works praise her in the gates [of the city]!(J)
So IRT the last few comments, IMO the woman referenced in Proverbs 31 is married (or perhaps some might argue that she's suitable for marriage) to a man who submits to God and functions as the head of his household.
IRT B3's question to me, I believe that a Proverbs 31 woman is 'suitable for marriage', which would mean that she's single and submitted to the Lord. So much so, that when a man of unnoble character comes a-callin', she'll dismiss him while going about her business until she's 'found'.
BTJM.
IRT B3's question to me, I believe that a Proverbs 31 woman is 'suitable for marriage', which would mean that she's single and submitted to the Lord. So much so, that when a man of unnoble character comes a-callin', she'll dismiss him while going about her business until she's 'found'.
BTJM.
Yeah, that's why I threw that in there.
I mean, clearly THE Proverbs 31 woman is married. But to apply it to other women, it can definitely be argued that A "Proverbs 31 woman" is one who will be the wife described in Proverbs 31. I wouldn't disagree with that.
I'm mostly referring to the notion that every woman who loves the Lord and cooks is a Proverbs 31 woman, and that just ain't true. You have women out here fornicating and calling themselves Prov31 women. You see it on license plates, in FB statuses, bumper stickers, screen savers, e-mail signatures, t-shirts, tattoos, just all over the place... and folks don't even know what it is. That title is just too big for a lot of us. I cook, I crochet, I'm supportive and submissive, I'm smart, celibate, and entrepreneurial and I love the Lord. But I wouldn't be so fast to say I'm a Proverbs 31 woman. I just think that's a really big title. *shrug* CBJM.
Oh and "unnoble"??? LOL
Yeah, that's why I threw that in there.
I mean, clearly THE Proverbs 31 woman is married. But to apply it to other women, it can definitely be argued that A "Proverbs 31 woman" is one who will be the wife described in Proverbs 31. I wouldn't disagree with that.
I'm mostly referring to the notion that every woman who loves the Lord and cooks is a Proverbs 31 woman, and that just ain't true. You have women out here fornicating and calling themselves Prov31 women. You see it on license plates, in FB statuses, bumper stickers, screen savers, e-mail signatures, t-shirts, tattoos, just all over the place... and folks don't even know what it is. That title is just too big for a lot of us. I cook, I crochet, I'm supportive and submissive, I'm smart, celibate, and entrepreneurial and I love the Lord. But I wouldn't be so fast to say I'm a Proverbs 31 woman. I just think that's a really big title. *shrug* CBJM.
Oh and "unnoble"??? LOL
Yep. LOL! Meant to put (int) in there but had to get to lunch. Besides. "ignoble" just didn't quite get it. LOL!