LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Bass Guitar => Topic started by: 6stringapprentice on June 02, 2010, 05:46:11 PM
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OK I've been hearing this phrase almost as long as I've been playing bass and I would have to say that completely and wholeheartedly disagree. I don't this the statement is so much false as it is mis-worded. My take is that tone starts in the hands.
There are so many components of tone I think it would be foolish to say tone is ALL in the hands.
Por Ejemplo
HANDS
STRINGS
string material
winding speed
core shape
string gauge
tapered, exposed, normal core
BRIDGE
material
mass
top loaded
thru Body
NUT material
Fretted or Fretless
Fret Material
Fretboard material
Neck Material
Neck Thru or Bolt on
Body woods
PICKUPS
active or passive
single coil
dual coil
quad coil
triple coil
Split coil
reverse split coil
sidewinders
series / parallel
magnet material
magnet strength
pole diameter
pole height
number of windings
diameter of windings
ELECTRONICS
passive active
capacitor value
capacitor type
pot value
active blend
passive blend
blend value
FET or OP AMP input
FET type
Op amp type
Input impedance
preamp voicing
2 band 3 band 4 band eq
boost and cut DB
eq centers
eq bandwidths
(Deep Breath) ... and then you have amps and cabs etc
Anyways please forgive the rant, I think most people understand what this phrase means but it is quoted so much as fact (mostly by people playing very expensive instruments ::)) that some younger players may be confused by it. At least I know I was a while back.
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Well stated, 6string. There are so many variables yet players far and wide search for a certain tone by:
1. buying certain basses
2. modding existing basses
3. changing components
4. changing strings
There are others, I'm sure. :).
And this is just my opinion: 99.5% of your audience won't care what kind of bass you are playing, or what kind of strings you are using, or what type of rig you are playing through. Most of us do not play in front of a room full of bass players. :)
I've been playing a little over five years. I strive to be on tempo, in the right key, playing the right notes or progression, tuned properly, not too loud at the wrong times, not too soft at the wrong times, locked in with the drummer. For me, that works.
But that's just me.
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While you may disagree........I saw a video clip of Victor Wooten playing an old beat up piece of crap bass and he was making that thing sing! A nice bass with nice new strings can certainly make sounding good easier but if you're good, it doesn't matter what you play!
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Most of it is. I would say 80% hands, 20% gear. With all that you just listed, if you sat them down right in front of you, you're not going to hear a tone at all. Think of it in another way. Take a trumpet player. He could have a Monet 4 valve or three valve system C, made of copper/brass mix, and the mouthpiece could be a 3c or 14d4. If that trumpet player has a jacked up embrouchure (the way your lips buzz on the mouthpiece) hes going to sound horrible. All those components contribute to how the tone is amplified. I could give a 1 week beginner a Fodera with a Aggie 750 and 810's and he'd sound like a beginner with Fodera and Aggie rig.
Honestly I used to hate to hear ppl say that, but the more I practiced and tried playing in different places, altering attacks, etc, alot if it is all in the hands. Of course an Ash bass will make your tone sound different than say a Mahogany, but its still your tone. Its one reason why my whole outlook on buying gear has changed.
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BassgyGrace, I am in complete agreement (excellent example by the way). While particular sonic signatures can only be achieved by a particular assembly of materials, our physical interaction dramatically impact the sound it produces.
"In music, articulation refers to the direction or performance technique which affects the transition or continuity on single note or between multiple notes or sounds. There are many different kinds of articulation, each having a different effect on how the note is played. Some articulation marks include the slur, phrase mark, staccato, staccatissimo, accent, sforzando, rinforzando, and legato. Each articulation is represented by a different symbol placed above or below the note (depending on its position on the stave). Woodwind and brass instruments generally articulate by tonguing, the use of the tongue to break the airflow into the instrument. Bowed stringed instruments use different bowing techniques to achieve different articulations."
Therefore, the way we fret and pluck a string, the amount of pressure we apply, the duration of the notes, etc, are what truly make up whatwe call "tone". Now if you want to discuss frequency ranges, harmonic resonance and sympathetic vibration, and other things related to the study of sound, then you will stand on firmer ground.
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I guess a bunch of it would have to do with my interpretation of tone.
To me most of what is in the hands is technique not tone. I do believe that technique influences tone. IMO the reason why Victor Wooten will sound like Vic despite the bass or rig he's playing is not because he carries his tone with him but his personal technique and expression.
For example, if you were to take personal technique and expression out of the equation.
Let's take the SMV tour. OK you give Stanley a Ken smith, you give Marcus a MTD, and you give Vic a Musicman. 3 basses with very unique tones and three players with very different techniques and expressions but remember we are deleting the latter from the equation. So we tell all three bassist to finger a F# major scale starting at the 2 fret of the E string at 100BPM.
Now my bet is if you were to listen to a blind recording of this it would probably be difficult to decipher which bassist is on which bass. On the other hand you would easily recognize the 3 basses by their distinct tones.
Now if you were to tell the three to start jamming, therefore adding personal technique and expression back into the equation, then it would easily become obvious which bassist was playing which bass.
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You take care of so many things on that list when you simply buy a bass. You don't have to know all those things if you go by the name, the price range and your own garnered info about basses and the way it sounds to you. A lot of the changes that you make to a moderately priced well set up tone adjusted name brand bass being played through at least a moderately priced well adjusted amp will not result in a great improvement in tone. I am just an amateur, but most of the time I don't notice a great difference. I do notice a difference right away though when a bass changes hands. Not always better or worse, just different. I notice a difference just changing my own hand style that is greater than that of a change in basses or strings. I don't really know about pickups. I went through several basses as the above became clear to me. Of course, most of the people posting here might already be advanced to where the hands would be less of a factor and for them, other things moreso.
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You can't separate the player from the instrument, because instruments don't play themselves. This line of thought is addressing a scenario that very rarely occurs: bass players sitting around comparing F# on different bass guitars. Again, observing from the listeners perspective, they are not thinking, "Oh that's Bernard Edwards playing a Musicman with DR Strings". They are thinking, "That's the bassline from Good Times by Chic". In fact, when someone asked what kind of strings he used when performing Good Times, he asked Nile Rodgers if he knew the name of the strings that come with the Musicman bass.
While the bass and the rig expand or limit the sonic possibilities, it is ultimately the performer who determines what the audience will hear. And in reference to SMV, unless they were exchanging hands, there is no way they could sound exactly the same while playing the same instruments. As far as the instruments themselves, I have heard a Ken Smith, but I would never be able to identify it on a recording. I guess I got some work to do (not).
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...As far as the instruments themselves, I have heard a Ken Smith, but I would never be able to identify it on a recording. I guess I got some work to do (not).
Yes you do!!! ;D ;D ;D Just messing. Smith's have there own distinct sound that I can definitely tell when someone is playing a Smith. Although I'm building my own bass, I still want a Smith in my arsenal.
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On the SMV tour, do you say that if they played scales on the same bass, you wouldn't know when the bass changed hands? Do you say that when the average bassist(amateur)or bassists played scales on a bass(the same bass) you couldn't tell when the bass changed hands? Personally, I could much more easily tell when the bass changed hands than when the hands changed basses.(assuming that the same amp and same settings were used with each bass. (I know I got some work to do)
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I guess a bunch of it would have to do with my interpretation of tone.
To me most of what is in the hands is technique not tone. I do believe that technique influences tone. IMO the reason why Victor Wooten will sound like Vic despite the bass or rig he's playing is not because he carries his tone with him but his personal technique and expression.
From Webster:
Tone
1 : vocal or musical sound of a specific quality <spoke in low tones> <masculine tones>; especially : musical sound with respect to timbre and manner of expression
2 a : a sound of definite pitch and vibration b : whole step
3 : accent or inflection expressive of a mood or emotion
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I guess a bunch of it would have to do with my interpretation of tone.
To me most of what is in the hands is technique not tone. I do believe that technique influences tone. IMO the reason why Victor Wooten will sound like Vic despite the bass or rig he's playing is not because he carries his tone with him but his personal technique and expression.
For example, if you were to take personal technique and expression out of the equation.
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From Virginia Tech Mutimedia Music Dictionary
Tone
1. An interval consisting of two semitones, that is a whole step.
2. The particular sound of an instrument or voice, as well as the performer's particular coloring of that sound. For example, the tone produced by a certain clarinetist could be said to be rich, dark, and mellow; this is the result of the natural sound of the instrument, combined with the performer's particular technique of playing.
I think this is probably the best illustration of how I interpret tone. The word it better than I do. I definitely agree you can't remove musician from the equation but you sure as heck can't remove the instrument as the phrase implies. Anyways toe-may-toe / ta-ma-toe. All I was really trying to say in the first post is that saying tone is all in the hands is a mite crazy ;D.
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I was just going to say this.
From Webster:
Tone
1 : vocal or musical sound of a specific quality <spoke in low tones> <masculine tones>; especially : musical sound with respect to timbre and manner of expression
2 a : a sound of definite pitch and vibration b : whole step
3 : accent or inflection expressive of a mood or emotion
It's a matter of symantics. When some people talk about tone, they are talking about the sound of the instrument as well as the person playing it. Some people are talking about how the person makes the instrument sound. I've heard Fitzgerald on several different basses (some of them might've even been his) and he always sound like Fitzgerald. You could give me Gouche's MTD and it would sound totally different in my hands. I've seen you on your videos (6stringapprentice) with different basses and you made all of them sing.
I think the point that people are making when they say "tone is in the hands" is that: If you can play, you can make any bass sound good. If you can't play, then it doesn't matter what kind of bass you play. While I agree that everything that you named effects your overall tone, I still say it starts with the hands.
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I think the point that people are making when they say "tone is in the hands" is that: If you can play, you can make any bass sound good. If you can't play, then it doesn't matter what kind of bass you play. While I agree that everything that you named effects your overall tone, I still say it starts with the hands.
i think what he's trying to say is making any bass sound good does not equal making any bass sound the same. there are too many other factors in the equation as he listed.
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i think what he's trying to say is making any bass sound good does not equal making any bass sound the same. there are too many other factors in the equation as he listed.
I understand the point he is making. And I agree with his overall point. That's why I said it's a matter of symantics. I was just tryna make the point that if it's not (first) in your hands, the rest of the stuff doesn't matter anyway.
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A scrub is a scrub, a baller is a baller, regardless of what the shoes or clothes may lead you to believe.
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A scrub is a scrub, a baller is a baller, regardless of what the shoes or clothes may lead you to believe.
but u not ballin the same way in shorts and sneakers as you would in a bubble coat and timbs. lol
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I think a basketplayer and his gear is a perfect analogy. Top people in their profession use top gear for a reason. Anythng less would not allow them to perform at their optimum level. Can you imagine wilkins and Jordan participating in the dunk contest with church shoes on? lol!!!
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The basketball and church shoes analogy sucks because that's like saying a bass player playing the bass line with a ukelele. Top gear doesn't mean optimum level.
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but u not ballin the same way in shorts and sneakers as you would in a bubble coat and timbs. lol
Hmmm.........there was a cat in my neighborhood who couldn't afford athletic gear (he was actually a younger brother to Gus & Ray Williams, ex-NBA players). He would hustle cats everyday. Dressed in regular clothes and sometimes boots. He still wiped the court with any challenger! He was that good!
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The list is deceptive in nature because so many of the items are cleared when you buy a bass. Even if you didn't know it. Whichever one you ended up with is capable of making good, fair or poor sounds and of having the same range of tones(bad to good) (if you bought a moderate to better bass). Where you fall in that range is in your hands. Set it up, adjust your moderate to better amp and have at it. Because you are about to do a bigger thing to effect your tone than you will ever otherwise do. (practice, adjust and learn) It seems to me that other changes would be in smaller increments of improvement. I really believe that. Experienced bassists, is that an erroneous belief?
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I didn't make the list with deception in mind. I just made it to show that whether big or small each of components effect the tone of the instrument. Now of course most of the list will be wiped off when you buy a bass or a component of the bass, but there are people who get custom basses made that actually hand pick many off the components listed.
I do think technique and musicality should take priority over gear choice, but I do think the two kind of go hand in hand.
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The basketball and church shoes analogy sucks because that's like saying a bass player playing the bass line with a ukelele. Top gear doesn't mean optimum level.
My bad, I was thinking faster than I was typing. I meant to say basketball shoes that feel like you are wearing church shoes. Nevertheless, I did not say top gear equals optimum level. However, I dont think talent alone is enough to reach one's optimum level. I was amazed when my bass player played a toy guitar and ripped it to shreds! As good as he was, it still sounded like toy.
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The basketball and church shoes analogy sucks because that's like saying a bass player playing the bass line with a ukelele. Top gear doesn't mean optimum level.
u mean the basketball and church shoes analogy sucks because if u ever played for a hot service, u know what crazy stuff people can do in church shoes. lol
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I actually prefer a golf vs. bass analogy: two different golfers can play the same course with the same set of clubs and use the same ball but have decidedly different results. To me, that's the equivalent of tonal differences attibutable to style of play, use of hands, etc.
When I play golf I am competing against the course, using the equipment I have to the best of my ability. And it's the same way when I play bass: I am trying to play my part in that song, using the equipment I have to the best of my ability.
I am not interested in entering a long driving contest, or side wagers on each hole. Nor do I have to have the latest Nike driver because so-and-so has one. I just want to play well and have fun. The same is true for playing bass. I just want to play well and have fun, and contribute to the ministry, or the group, that I am involved in.
Again, that's just me. :)
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If tone was all in the hands, then Marcus would not have changed his electronics & his bridge. Someone said they have heard Fitzgerald play many different basses & he still sounds like Fitzgerald. Well of course he still sounds like Fitzgerald, because his style didn't change, but his tone changed. I've have seen/heard Fitzgerald play Tobias, Fender, Lakland, Warwick, Performance basses & he still sounds the same, but he has had 5 different tones. I just watched a video of Gouche talking about the MTD Jazz basses & he actually said that he didn't like it's tone, until he played it in the right setting(Gouche if you're are reading this, did I get it right), same hands different bass. So that tells me that certain tones good or bad, may or may not, sound good in certain musical situations. So hands, electronics, woods, amplification, cabinets, strings etc., all have an impact on your tone. Your tone has to already be there, prior to you even touching the bass, then your technique will bring out,whats already there. There is no way that Mario Franchitti could have won the Indianapolis 500 in my 2002 Toyota Camry 4cyl. But the car that he won it with was equippied with what he needed to win, prior to him even touching the car. He just had to use his skill & certain techniques to bring out the best, that his car already had to offer. But ultimately it comes down to preference. What sound good to one may stink to another. I'm not a fan of the Ken Smith's slap tone, I love the finger tone. But some cats think it's the best tone ever. I would love to have one for certain muscial situations, but for my main bass, naaaw.
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John Patitucci changed from Smith bass to Yamaha. If you listen you could tell his tone changed. I think his bass sounds colder and not as warm as the Smith bass.
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This is what Marcus said:
"Tanya: What would you advise young players to listen to?
Marcus: Everything! And don't listen to people who try to tell you what you should be doing. Anything that catches your ear, learn how to play it on your instrument. And for bassists, man, I tell them to stop trippin' on the bass! Every time you pick up one of those magazines they talk about The Instrument, know what I mean? That's just like the vehicle, that's like singers walking around talking about their throat! Get off it man. Play music! Find a bass that sounds good and play it! People ask about the strings, the neck, the pickups and the amp. Get an amp that's loud enough so that you can hear it, and make some music! Put yourself in as many different situations as you can, and all of a sudden all those questions you have will get answered on their own ? how often should ou change your strings, what should you practice? Practice whatever you can't play! And play anything that catches your ear. Not just bass lines, if you hear a nice melody, a sax line, figure out how to play it, and stop trippin' on whether you should be able to solo or groove. That's the other thing I hear all the time. You never hear any piano player get asked that. You gotta solo and you gotta groove. They're both part of music. You gotta do both!"
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Kev - I that is the most liberating thing I have read or heard regarding music and gear. From what interview/magazine did you get that from?
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It is an excerpt from a now defunct magazine, "Bassist" published in 1998. I have a more recently article published in Bass Player magazine, where Marcus reemphasizes the idea of "choosing an instrument for life" so you can focus on making music, not designing instruments. In response to the inevitable rebuttal, keep in mind that musicians get paid to endorse instruments, so you have to pay attention to what you see them playing the most, or in Marcus' case, he plainly says "I have played my main bass for over 20 years. Every musician should find that one instrument that suits them and play it for the rest of their lives." I'm not saying I will never buy another bass, but it will be awhile before I try to bring another "lady" into the house.
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Thats what I like about cats like Marcus, Gouche, East. They have been playing that same basses for yrs. Marcus said in one interview, that he knows everything about that bass, dead spots, good spots, bad spots etc. I heard a song this morning at work & automatically, not really even hearing the song that well, cause the person had it turned down low. But, I heard that tone & knew it was Marcus. Never even heard the song before. But Marcus's signature tone didn't come until, he changed that preamp.
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it takes many of us a while to find that "bass for life", whether it be cost (i bet a Marcus Miller didnt cost Marcus Miller what a Marcus Miller costs now.....say that 5 times fast), changes/improvements in technique, tonal preferences (cause its not ALL in the hands), as well as stuff happens (bass gets damaged, stolen, traded and ran away with, etc), or being preoccupied with other instruments (keys, drums, even singing)
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Yeah floaded27, Marcus said his bass cost his mother around $280.00. This was after the first two she bought for him, got stolen.
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In Bass Player Presents... Session Legends and Studio Gear, Marcus Miller made some extensive remarks on tone. He reiterated that bassist today place way too much emphasis on the technology and not enough on technique.
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Yeah he might have said that. But thats very easy to say, now that he has one of the best tones in the business. He obviously wasn't saying that when Roger Sadowsky recommended he change his preamp to Bartolini & get a badass bridge.
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Yeah, that's what makes Marcus Miller one of the most sought after bassist in the world, the preamp and strings. Just the other the day, I was reading the liner notes of project and it read Bass made by Roger Sadowsky, Saxaphone made by Keilwerth and Piano made by Steinway. Oddly, there was no mention of the musicians or singers, just the instruments
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It's actually a mixture of both. Yeah, Marcus gets called for his ability to lay down an infectious groove. But if you listen to alot of the stuff Marcus plays on, 90% of it he slaps. Even on slow songs, cause the tone of his bass is just beautiful, thats what they want. His groove & that tone together, just can't be matched.
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Guitar player here.
Anyways I always viewed "tone" as the sound your instrument makes due to factors such as string type, pick-up type, amp type, and other such physical factors. Heck there will be no difference in "tone" between Jonathan Dubose and I if we both played an open E using the same instrument with the same settings. The only difference between us is our technique and knowledge of music and the fretboard.
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Fenix, I get a different tone when I change from thumb to fingers. I get a different tone when I adjust the way I strike the string with my finger. You can adjust the tone of any bass with the controls(amp and guitar) but on the bottom line, it is in the hands. (Often tone is deemed to describe nuances as well as sound) Almost anyone can adjust any amp and any bass to improve the sound. It doesn't take musical skill so to speak. Afer you have done that, it sounds like it sounds. Then rest is according to who is playing the bass. By the way, ltns. How is it going?
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There is a latin phrase, ceteris parabus, which means "all other things being equal". And that's what keeps coming to mind as I read this thread. Everything being discussed is a matter of comparison, whether it's comparing two bass players, or two sets of pickups, or two sets of strings, or two amps, or two cabs, or two sets of settings for the same cabs. And there's the rub: the differences between any two tones is rarely, if ever, going to be boiled down to "everything about the two was exactly the same except for ___________ ". Add to that what we hear on a record, or in a live setting, has been augmented by other technological factors (most of which we don't have access to).
Plug in and play. Your tone is you. It doesn't matter where it comes from. :). I wager that Marcus and Gouche worry about their respective tones far less than we do.
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dhagler, you're correct about Marcus & Gouche not worrying about there tone. It's because they have found there's already & they both have wonderful tones. Gouche has Mike Tobais, arguebly the best luthier around & Marcus had Roger Sadowsky. I guarantee you they tried, this & that & that & this & found the tone that they liked. Here is Mike Tobias in his own words. Michael Tobias MTD on GospelChops.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCj4TrrLOSQ#)
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continued: as you see, he didn't say, well I just grab some wood out my back yard, what ever kind of wood thats back there & make a bass & the rest is up to the player. No my brothas, these cats have specifics for a reason. Then, the rest is up to the player, to bring out whats already there.
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I keep reading that Marcus' sound comes from Sadowsky. The only Sadowsky connection to Marcus is that Roger modified his original Fender Jazz by adding a Star pre-amp (not a Sadowsky pre) and a bad@$$ bridge. There is nothing else Sadowsky about Marcus' basses. If this was the case, he'd be playing Sadowsky's and not Fenders!
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Directly from Marcus' website from the man himself. His bass currently has a Bartolini pre in it.
The pre-amp I have in my bass now is a Bartolini. It was installed by Roger Sadowsky. This is the second pre-amp that I've had in there. A bad direct box blew up my first one. If I remember correctly, the original pre-amp Roger had in there was by Stars Guitars (I don't know if Stars was a division of Bartolini or what).
A guy named John Suhr, who used to work for Fender, designed the pre-amp that's in the MM sig model
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DWBass, thank you. I have posted quotes by Marcus Miller at least twice in this thread where he says, "You're spending too much time worrying about technology", but yet I keep reading comments that relate to nothing but technology. Why are we so obssessed with the gear? More importantly, why are we so obsessed with other peoples' gear? If someone said to you, "Wow that was a great bassline. What was your inspiration?" would you say, "Well, isn't it obvious?
This is how things play out as a result of majoring in the minors:
1. You decide to start playing bass and get a starter pack for $299. I take it to church and immediately everyone tells you that you made a mistake.Others keep walking up and saying things like "look at the starter bass! Isn't it cute?"
2. The church folk offer to help and give you a laundry list of parts to buy. You trust them so you do it, to the tune of $400. You take the parts to church and your "helper" offers to install the parts for you and renders the instrument useless because it now has a buzzing sound that won't go away.
3. You spend some time hanging around bass players and they suggest that you get brand x bass because its the best for slap. One of them offers to sell you their bass for a steal, because they already put new pickups, a new preamp and new bridge on it for only $699. You jump on it, not because you understood why all those parts mattered, but because it doesn't buzz!
4. You play it for awhile, but you decide that it doesn't sound quite right so you take it to trade in toward another bass. After regaining consciousness because you passed out from the low ball price they offered on the trade in, you sell it yourself to some poor unsuspecting newbie for a great price, because you just want to move on. The day after you sell it, someone raves about how great that bass sounds, and you wish you never sold it. You hear this same comment and (have the same regret) everyday for the next two months.
5. You go out of town and discover a bass guitar megastore. You spend several hours playing every bass they have and find one that plays perfectly. You are surprised at how affordable it is. You then realize that if you had done this first, you would have saved your self a lot of aggravation and $1500. You then realize that you could have bought your dream bass and your dream amp if you had not listened to so many "helpful" people. You decide to let the past be the past and live happily ever after. When people ask you about your experiences, you say "there's nothing to tell" and walk away.
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kev, i totally feel you. There are plenty of people that are trying to be "helpful" but dont understand that what works for them may not necessarily work for you. And they push their ideas/experiences/understanding on you as if its an absolute. And some tips are pretty much absolute like "if you dont know what ur doing, dont mess with your truss rod", etc. stuff like that. but then other things, people see you as starting out (or just less experienced than they are) and they feel the need to press everything they know and do on you. I've had people play my bass and tell me "you need to change your strings. how long u had these on here?" or "you gotta tune flat"
I thank God for teachers who guided me and gave me direction as a newbie, but also gave me space to find my way. When I was so clueless starting out, my teacher gave me suggestions on what I needed, but he said so in a way to let me know that it was his suggestion and that I should check it out for myself. Once he saw me become competent, i think he felt that if i didnt ask, i probably know. But if he did notice something, he never said "you should do this" or "you need to do that" but rather "have you ever tried...." or "do you know that....". It shows that as a mentor and teacher he was there offering guidance, but at the same time respecting that im competent, as well as I may have my OWN way of doing things that may be different.
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Thanks Floaded27. I remember coming home from practice and a guy in my building says, "what's in the bag". I tell him its a bass and he gets this big old grin, and says, "I play too! Come and see me and I will help you out!" I wait a couple of days (did'nt want to seem too eager) and knock on his door. After we get settled in, he says, "show me what you got". I play a riff that I learned on this website (thanks Uriah, where ever you are) and he gets a real funny look on his face. He then says, "I think I know what you were going for. You should play it like this." He starts slapping and popping like nobodies business. Now I should inform you that I was already in awe, because he had a Ken Smith 5 string running through some monster amp. What he played sounded nice, but it wasn't remotely close to the exercise. For the next hour he only wanted to talk about naming the notes and slapping and popping. I went along patiently, until he started grabbing my fingers and placing them on the fretboard. I waited until he decided the lesson was over, then I left. I see hm from time to time, but we don't hang out anymore. Fast forward a couple of months. I finally saved up enough to get a Fender Jazz. I go to the store and start the process of trying out different basses. I sales guy comes over and starts conversating with me about instruments, but never once asked me what I was looking to buy. He asked me what I played before, then started showing me the differences between the instruments. What was important was he kept placing the basses in my hands and asked me to play. When he noticed that I wasn't sure what to do, he would pick up another bass and demonstrate until I played it decently. He never rushed me and let me know that he had to go do something else, but would be back. After I bought y bass, he would often check in with me. When I told him I was thinking of changing a part, he made sure I knew why and how and even steered me away from some bad decisions. He shared a lot of stories with me, gave me a bunch of free lessons, and the most important lesson to date: as long as you make music you like, you will always be happy. He thought good tone was a state of mind, not a some total of assembled parts.
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Back in the day Roger Sadowsky was one of the top luthier in New York, all the big cats went to him. Never said that he installed a Sadowsky prer-amp. Sadowsky pre-amps were not even thought of. Sadowsky actually put a Bartolini TCT preamp in Marcus bass. Which is still the same pre-amp in there today. Switching his pre-amp was definetly a big part of the Marcus tone we all love. Listen to some old Marcus, his tone is no where near what it is today. I just listened to Bad Boy by Luther(our band plays it) & though Marcus's bass sounds descent, but no where near the sound he's had since, the early to mid 90's. You can hear a big difference in Marcus's tone.
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After re-reading this I think the discrepancy is that "good tone" is being equated with tone in general. I don't dispute that you can get a "good tone" from any myriad of basses from SX cheap to Ritter Royal Flora Aurum expensive, but you're hands alone can only contribute so much to the total tonal structure that you hear. No amount of hand manipulation will give a fretless bass strung with flats that sharp, crisp attack of a fretted with roundwounds. Neither is there is there any hand manipulation that would give a MTD the signature upper midrange burp of a Ken Smith. This is where that laundry list of items I listed come into play. No doubt a talented bassist playing the bassist listed above could get a great tone from them, But they would be different tones.
As far as modding, its not one of those things that should be gone into blindly. Unfortunately that isn't always the case and many people end up spending a boat load of cash only to end up with a bass they aren't satisfied with.
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I appeal to the 6stringapprentices' tagline
"Respect the bassist"
Otherwise, Michael Jordan can't take credit for his illustrious career, because "its gotta be the shoes!"
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Correction:I should have said Sadowsky was one of the top bass techs, back in the day. Check out Marcus Miller's website. He has a q & a section & he said he had a Bartolini pre-amp installed by Roger Sadowsky. Also it depends on who dos the work for you.
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as far as tone being in the hands... I believe that applies to different people playing the exact same instrument with the exact same settings and amp etc. Ex. When I was younger, I would sometimes get tired of some of my basses and start complaining about the tone until one of my friends would pick it up and start playing it. (Same settings) All of a sudden I thought it sounded better. LOL! Everyone's fingers produce different sounds on the same instrument. Just as our hands look different and are shaped different and our finger prints are different, our naturally produced finger tone is different-even when playing the same instrument.
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the most important lesson: as long as you make music you like, you will always be happy.
+10000.