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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: LaylaMonroe on July 22, 2010, 12:20:17 PM
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This was recorded in 1997. Dude is so far ahead of his time, it just baffles my mind... so underappreciated... so talented... so amazing.
Whew.
James Hall and Worship & Praise "He Reigns" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_8RXPUjPzQ&NR=1#)
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You know what I realized.... I know a 'few' oldies in gospel but don't know who sings them. Like the Clark Sisters for instance. When I became obsessed with Karen I just started listening to some of the Clarks old songs and was like, "What??? I didn't know they sung this".
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Young people. ::)
:D :D :D
j/k. I'm sure I went through that phase as well. *shrug*
Anyway... another AMAZING composition.
James Hall and Worship & Praise "Great Is Our God" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ6wHyvtRqw&feature=related#)
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I kind of think he's underrated too but I don't think he's got the appreciation and attention he probably deserves because of how complex his music is. To play his music, especially if you are a beginner or intermediate (I consider myself intermediate) requires A LOT of practice, A LOT!
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Since I'm not a musician, I don't consider complexity as a hindrance to enjoyment. On the contrary, that's one of the things I love most about him... his stuff is just so unusual and extraordinary... it's definitely not the typical gospel choir stuff, and rarely can anyone name a choir that can be compared to JH/WAP.
We're doing three of his songs for our Convocation this weekend. Maybe that's why TJ has been so MIA lately. :D
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LOL.
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Since I'm not a musician, I don't consider complexity as a hindrance to enjoyment. On the contrary, that's one of the things I love most about him... his stuff is just so unusual and extraordinary... it's definitely not the typical gospel choir stuff, and rarely can anyone name a choir that can be compared to JH/WAP.
We're doing three of his songs for our Convocation this weekend. Maybe that's why TJ has been so MIA lately. :D
LOL!!!
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Since I'm not a musician, I don't consider complexity as a hindrance to enjoyment. On the contrary, that's one of the things I love most about him... his stuff is just so unusual and extraordinary... it's definitely not the typical gospel choir stuff, and rarely can anyone name a choir that can be compared to JH/WAP.
We're doing three of his songs for our Convocation this weekend. Maybe that's why TJ has been so MIA lately. :D
Mane! Don't get me started on Ricky Dillard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, you're right, James Hall tops my list.
Oh...Can we say CHOIR ROBES!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
When is the last time I saw a choir robe? Man people used to have choir robe envy!
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Mane! Don't get me started on Ricky Dillard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, you're right, James Hall tops my list.
Oh...Can we say CHOIR ROBES!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
When is the last time I saw a choir robe? Man people used to have choir robe envy!
I love Ricky, but I hate when people compare the two.
I love Ricky. So I'm going to leave it at that.
And yes, I SOOO miss wearing choir robes! LOL! I just miss singing in the choir, period. This weekend will be the first time I'm singing in a choir in several years; I'm SOOO stoked!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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We're doing three of his songs for our Convocation this weekend. Maybe that's why TJ has been so MIA lately. :D
Uh, yeah. I've never had to hit the rewind button so much in my life. :D
James Hall is gifted, no doubt, but speaking from a business standpoint, his material isn't very marketable, which is why he isn't mainstream, I believe. His music is an acquired taste and people who like it are usually "choir" people who are deep into the church scene. Those people only really make up like 15% of the market, though, maybe less. Most people will walk around the house singing "No Weaponnnn...formmmmed against me.....shall prosper..." before they walk around singing "HOW GRE- GRE- GRE- GREAAAAT THOOOOOOUUUUU ARRRRRRRTTTTT!!!" :D, which separates a mainstream artist like Fred Hammond from James Hall. People like Fred, Kirk, Smallwood, etc. achieve the goal of having simple, sweet, catchy, and, most importantly, memorable melodies/structure with personable lyrics. That's what most gospel-buyers want.
But that's just my analysis. I've been wrong before.
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Uh, yeah. I've never had to hit the rewind button so much in my life. :D
James Hall is gifted, no doubt, but speaking from a business standpoint, his material isn't very marketable, which is why he isn't mainstream, I believe. His music is an acquired taste and people who like it are usually "choir" people who are deep into the church scene. Those people only really make up like 15% of the market, though, maybe less. Most people will walk around the house singing "No Weaponnnn...formmmmed against me.....shall prosper..." before they walk around singing "HOW GRE- GRE- GRE- GREAAAAT THOOOOOOUUUUU ARRRRRRRTTTTT!!!" :D, which separates a mainstream artist like Fred Hammond from James Hall. People like Fred, Kirk, Smallwood, etc. achieve the goal of having simple, sweet, catchy, and, most importantly, memorable melodies/structure with personable lyrics. That's what most gospel-buyers want.
But that's just my analysis. I've been wrong before.
That's kind of what I was thinking as well.
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Uh, yeah. I've never had to hit the rewind button so much in my life. :D
James Hall is gifted, no doubt, but speaking from a business standpoint, his material isn't very marketable, which is why he isn't mainstream, I believe. His music is an acquired taste and people who like it are usually "choir" people who are deep into the church scene. Those people only really make up like 15% of the market, though, maybe less. Most people will walk around the house singing "No Weaponnnn...formmmmed against me.....shall prosper..." before they walk around singing "HOW GRE- GRE- GRE- GREAAAAT THOOOOOOUUUUU ARRRRRRRTTTTT!!!" :D, which separates a mainstream artist like Fred Hammond from James Hall. People like Fred, Kirk, Smallwood, etc. achieve the goal of having simple, sweet, catchy, and, most importantly, memorable melodies/structure with personable lyrics. That's what most gospel-buyers want.
But that's just my analysis. I've been wrong before.
ROFL!!!!! I love How Great Thou Art, but I told Elder Warren I may have to sit that one out. I can't seem to catch it to save my life, and missing two rehearsals in a row didn't help any. And don't get me started on that change between Thy Name Be Praised and Blessed Be the Name... WITW??? ?/? :o :-[ :D :D :D
But yeah, I think your analysis may be right, especially the part in bold.
James is a genius... putting his stuff on a Walmart shelf is like putting a college algebra textbook in Toys R Us. :D :D :D
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ROFL!!!!! I love How Great Thou Art, but I told Elder Warren I may have to sit that one out. I can't seem to catch it to save my life, and missing two rehearsals in a row didn't help any. And don't get me started on that change between Thy Name Be Praised and Blessed Be the Name... WITW??? ?/? :o :-[ :D :D :D
But yeah, I think your analysis may be right, especially the part in bold.
James is a genius... putting his stuff on a Walmart shelf is like putting a college algebra textbook in Toys R Us. :D :D :D
Um....I think you stretched it there! ;D ;D ;D
Oh...I am a choir person. I'm a congregational and choir person.....but anyway. The first thing I ALWAYS ask a musician to play is "Praise the Lord everybody" or "God is a good God".
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A lot of folks stand James Hall. That heavy NY vibrato is an acquired taste and is very addicting because once you hear it you will be singing like that for the rest of the day. His last cd "won't it be wonderful" was absolute squirrel nuts. John Peters, Dwayne Wright, Eddie Heyward. HA AA AA AA OW GREEYEYEYEYEYEYE EYEYEYEYEAT THOU ARRRRRRRRRR (high pitched- OHHHHH) YEEEES MIGHTYEYEYEYEYEYYE YEEEEES GLORYUsUSSUSUSUSS YEEEEESS AWWEEESOME YOU ARE WORRRR URRRR THEEYEYEYEYE. ;D
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cant stand my mistake
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:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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A lot of folks stand James Hall. That heavy NY vibrato is an acquired taste and is very addicting because once you hear it you will be singing like that for the rest of the day. His last cd "won't it be wonderful" was absolute squirrel nuts. John Peters, Dwayne Wright, Eddie Heyward. HA AA AA AA OW GREEYEYEYEYEYEYE EYEYEYEYEAT THOU ARRRRRRRRRR (high pitched- OHHHHH) YEEEES MIGHTYEYEYEYEYEYYE YEEEEES GLORYUsUSSUSUSUSS YEEEEESS AWWEEESOME YOU ARE WORRRR URRRR THEEYEYEYEYE. ;D
Yeah, on second thought, I'm definitely not sitting that one out. I love that song. I'm just gonna have to go into worship when we get to the part I don't know. LOL :D :D
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Yeah, on second thought, I'm definitely not sitting that one out. I love that song. I'm just gonna have to go into worship when we get to the part I don't know. LOL :D :D
LOL you doing the baptist move......LOL! When you don't know a song, just start worshipping and shouting.....LOL!
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Uh, yeah. I've never had to hit the rewind button so much in my life. :D
James Hall is gifted, no doubt, but speaking from a business standpoint, his material isn't very marketable, which is why he isn't mainstream, I believe. His music is an acquired taste and people who like it are usually "choir" people who are deep into the church scene. Those people only really make up like 15% of the market, though, maybe less. Most people will walk around the house singing "No Weaponnnn...formmmmed against me.....shall prosper..." before they walk around singing "HOW GRE- GRE- GRE- GREAAAAT THOOOOOOUUUUU ARRRRRRRTTTTT!!!" :D, which separates a mainstream artist like Fred Hammond from James Hall. People like Fred, Kirk, Smallwood, etc. achieve the goal of having simple, sweet, catchy, and, most importantly, memorable melodies/structure with personable lyrics. That's what most gospel-buyers want.
But that's just my analysis. I've been wrong before.
Rich in truth, young sir especially the portion in bold.
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You're right Rue Rue. In the past few years, I've just started to take more notice of James Hall's music. That is, now that my skills are getting better and my understanding of music is growing. His music isn't for your average gospel listener. Gospel has to be in your blood to appreciate his music.
Uh, yeah. I've never had to hit the rewind button so much in my life. :D
You ain't lying man. On that doggone song I helped you with, I had to rewind, turn up the music, rewind some more, pull out my theory knowledge and everything. James Hall is a straight up BEAST. There is no music like his music anywhere. His music flows in and out of keys like they going out of style. And the harmonies, OMG.
Just like with any other music, once you understand the pattern, it becomes a little easier to play.
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That leads me to a question... should JH be less popular/marketable among musicians because the music is complicated and/or difficult to learn? Shouldn't that be what piques a musician's interest and challenges him/her to come on up a lil higher?? :-\
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That leads me to a question... should JH be less popular/marketable among musicians because the music is complicated and/or difficult to learn? Shouldn't that be what piques a musician's interest and challenges him/her to come on up a lil higher?? :-\
I don't think JH is less popular among "musicians", quite the contrary, most musicians/artist I think would appreciate the complexity of his music. May be less popular/marketable among general audiences who are not necessarily listening for technical nuances in music as previously stated and prefer simplicity.
It's a challenge to play some of his music speaking for myself. I always thought he was very popular, but maybe I thought that because I play and have a lot of his music...idk...
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That leads me to a question... should JH be less popular/marketable among musicians because the music is complicated and/or difficult to learn? Shouldn't that be what piques a musician's interest and challenges him/her to come on up a lil higher?? :-\
I don't think he should be, but it depends on what the person is into. A lot of musicians buy songs, for the choirs they rehearse with. JH vocal arrangements may be complicated for the average choir. His arrangements may require more time in preparing, which can be alot when you have to prepare songs week to week for choirs.
Also I think it depends on the congregation you play for and the type of musician you are. Some congregations are not into the fancy vocal arrangements. Many like the simple, catchy songs they can slightly remember during the week. Some musicians like the simple songs, while others like more creativity. Personally, with an artist like JH (and many other artist) I would rather have a written score of music. It is easier for me to disect. Creating a lead sheet with vocal arrangements for JH, may require too much time, which I may not have on a consistant basis.
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That leads me to a question... should JH be less popular/marketable among musicians because the music is complicated and/or difficult to learn? Shouldn't that be what piques a musician's interest and challenges him/her to come on up a lil higher?? :-\
From a musician's standpoint, the answer is it should be more popular/marketable. However, the average musicain seems to gravitate toward the music that's easier to learn to play right now. So, all the easy contemporary stuff is a not brainer. It's not until their skills increase that they start to look for the more "complicated" stuff. Like I said myself, I'm really just starting to appreciate his music cuz I can understand it better now.
There is a reason why popular music is so popular, because it's EASY to understand. Most people don't like what they don't understand. This goes for any genre. Take the simple tunes like "Mary Had A Little Lamb". Why does everyone and they momma know this song? Cuz it's easy and catchy.
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Indeed. I don't know how many times I've asked some musicians, do you know any James Hall songs?...and they look at me like "Who is James Hall?" I immediately say, "Dude. You're fired." I've known about James Hall since I first heard God is in Control. It took me about two months to learn to play that song then, and I still didn't have it right!
His music isn't AS bad for me now, but Joe Sample's and The Yellowjackets is.
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Indeed. I don't know how many times I've asked some musicians, do you know any James Hall songs?...and they look at me like "Who is James Hall?" I immediately say, "Dude. You're fired." I've known about James Hall since I first heard God is in Control. It took me about two months to learn to play that song then, and I still didn't have it right!
His music isn't AS bad for me now, but Joe Sample's and The Yellowjackets is.
Very good album. *nods head slowly*
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James Hall's music is a big reason why I play gospel music..."The Blood," "Nobody Like Him," "Blessed Be the Name," "After the Storm," "Great is the Mystery of Godliness"...and the list goes on...so underrated and musical and equally challenging for musician and singer....a lot of credit goes to Melvin Crispell for writing a lot of his songs...and his band.
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James Hall has always been my favorite because I believe he is the most creative gospel artist ever.
He touched on just about every style of music you can think of and it always seemed to work.
Traditional- (God Wants A Yes) or (I'm Not The Same)
Classical- (Blessed Be The Name) or (Hold To God's Unchanging Hand)
Jazz- (I've Got To Praise Him)... Ok you get the idea. He seems to be able to make any genre of music work.
I also have to say Ricky Dillard is next on my list. He is straight up church!
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**Pops head in thread...
Watches one video...
Shakes head...
Goes back to the safety of playing CCM songs**
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I love James Hall as well. I just really started listening to his music seriously about a year ago and now I listen to it constantly (I am trying to learn how to play "The Blood"). I have gotten to the point now where I compare every choir I hear to the Voices of Citadel and Worship and Praise. I would love for my choir to sing at the level of James Hall's choirs, but they (my choir) doesn't seem interested in putting in the time it takes to get to that level.
Although James Hall is not that popular (like a Kirk Franklin and Fred Hammond), you can see his influence in some to the more mainstream groups like Tye Tribbett an GA (Tye says James Hall is his biggest influence) and Youthful Praise.
I came across this video on youtube and immediately thought about James Hall. This group is called D'vyne Worship and they sound amazing. I am waiting for their CD to drop.
Patrick Riddick & D'vyne Worship - Oh Give Thanks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSOM4kUcRjQ#)
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I love James Hall as well. I just really started listening to his music seriously about a year ago and now I listen to it constantly (I am trying to learn how to play "The Blood"). I have gotten to the point now where I compare every choir I hear to the Voices of Citadel and Worship and Praise. I would love for my choir to sing at the level of James Hall's choirs, but they (my choir) doesn't seem interested in putting in the time it takes to get to that level.
Although James Hall is not that popular (like a Kirk Franklin and Fred Hammond), you can see his influence in some to the more mainstream groups like Tye Tribbett an GA (Tye says James Hall is his biggest influence) and Youthful Praise.
I came across this video on youtube and immediately thought about James Hall. This group is called D'vyne Worship and they sound amazing. I am waiting for their CD to drop.
Patrick Riddick & D'vyne Worship - Oh Give Thanks ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSOM4kUcRjQ#[/url])
Patrick Riddick actually sings with Ricky Dillard and New G. He directs for them on a song on the 7th Episode.
James Hall is definitely in a class by himself. You hear some of that influence in Youthful Praise because JJ Hairston used to sing with WAP as well.
Like others have said, your musicians, choir directors, etc who have a mind for challenges and want to sing and play the more "difficult" songs know your James Halls, Thomas Whitfields, and the like very well.
And when you talk about great choirs, don't forget O'Landa Draper and the Associates. My favorite choir of all time...
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I. do. not. like. the. ministry. of. Patrick Riddick. Not at all. I hope I don't get into trouble for saying that so publicly, but I really don't enjoy him in ministry.
Patrick Riddick actually sings with Ricky Dillard and New G. He directs for them on a song on the 7th Episode.
James Hall is definitely in a class by himself. You hear some of that influence in Youthful Praise because JJ Hairston used to sing with WAP as well.
Like others have said, your musicians, choir directors, etc who have a mind for challenges and want to sing and play the more "difficult" songs know your James Halls, Thomas Whitfields, and the like very well.
And when you talk about great choirs, don't forget O'Landa Draper and the Associates. My favorite choir of all time...
You hit the nail on the head with that part in bold. He's just in a class all by himself. They broke the mold after making him. Dude is just musically cut from a different cloth - as far as gospel music goes. And yeah, I really enjoyed O'Landa and the Associates too.
Just FYI - in an indirect response to some of the comments that were made about the difficulty of learning/teaching JH's songs, quite a few of them are uncomplicated. I think he usually puts at least one or two on each CD that are easy to teach (I couldn't tell you about learning the music behind it because I don't know). And now that the VOC is recording, he's offering even more "user-friendly" material. My choir just did "Count on Me" from the latest CD and it was extremely easy to learn. We learned it in about 10-15 minutes, I think. Not sure how long it took TJ and the other musicians, but the choir learned it quickly. He Took My Place, Leave Them There, Nobody Like Him, It Pays... I could go on and on naming the "easy" songs... he has plenty of easy material out there.
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I. do. not. like. the. ministry. of. Patrick Riddick. Not at all. I hope I don't get into trouble for saying that so publicly, but I really don't enjoy him in ministry.
You hit the nail on the head with that part in bold. He's just in a class all by himself. They broke the mold after making him. Dude is just musically cut from a different cloth - as far as gospel music goes. And yeah, I really enjoyed O'Landa and the Associates too.
Just FYI - in an indirect response to some of the comments that were made about the difficulty of learning/teaching JH's songs, quite a few of them are uncomplicated. I think he usually puts at least one or two on each CD that are easy to teach (I couldn't tell you about learning the music behind it because I don't know). And now that the VOC is recording, he's offering even more "user-friendly" material. My choir just did "Count on Me" from the latest CD and it was extremely easy to learn. We learned it in about 10-15 minutes, I think. Not sure how long it took TJ and the other musicians, but the choir learned it quickly. He Took My Place, Leave Them There, Nobody Like Him, It Pays... I could go on and on naming the "easy" songs... he has plenty of easy material out there.
Yea...We're speaking as musicians....
That's prolly what's wrong right there: singers be like ooooh that's easy, let's do it!...then they hand that song to a musician that isn't ready for it.
On the other hand, I'm sure the reverse happens too. I know I get bored if the songs are too easy to play.
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Yea...We're speaking as musicians....
That's prolly what's wrong right there: singers be like ooooh that's easy, let's do it!...then they hand that song to a musician that isn't ready for it.
On the other hand, I'm sure the reverse happens too. I know I get bored if the songs are too easy to play.
Nah, sometimes I can hear how musically complicated a song is, so I know it would present a major challenge to the average musician. Just like I've always had choir directors who pushed us beyond what we thought were our vocal limits, I think musicians can do the same (push themselves). You never know what you're capable of doing until you try. I can't tell you how many songs I've sung (or taught) with different choirs that were way more complex than I ever imagined I was capable of doing...
I do get the point, though, and of course I realize that as a non-musician, there's no way I can really "get it".
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Nah, sometimes I can hear how musically complicated a song is, so I know it would present a major challenge to the average musician. Just like I've always had choir directors who pushed us beyond what we thought were our vocal limits, I think musicians can do the same (push themselves). You never know what you're capable of doing until you try. I can't tell you how many songs I've sung (or taught) with different choirs that were way more complex than I ever imagined I was capable of doing...
I do get the point, though, and of course I realize that as a non-musician, there's no way I can really "get it".
Yea. Sometimes, people just want to sing a song because they like it, and not because it fits or is within the range of the choir.