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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: LaylaMonroe on August 26, 2010, 02:23:51 PM
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Do you deal with leaders who give the impression that they want to "lead" just for recognition, accolades, authority, and/or to feel important or see their name in "lights"?
Another question that just popped into my mind. For those of you who are truly selfless leaders (specifically those who couldn't care less if their work is ever acknowledged publicly, they just want to do ministry): do you ever feel, deep on the inside, any resentment for not getting public recognition? Like, even though you don't do "it" for the recognition, do you ever have those hidden thoughts that you would never admit openly where you ponder how come they didn't call your name or include a thanks to you in the program, etc.?
I'm asking that last question because I wonder if maybe the problem isn't that people are in it for the recognition, maybe they just feel some genuine sense of resentment or something? In other words, maybe their concerns are valid?? My first guess is that they just want to be in the limelight. But as I'm typing this, I wonder if maybe they deserve some benefit of the doubt?
Personally, I'm one of those (as most admins are) who does almost all my work behind the scenes. I'm typically viewed as the person who reads the announcements, types the letters, and that's it. Most people don't realize that there are 20, 30, sometimes 40 or 50 hours worth of work done behind the scenes. I have never been one to want public recognition, nor do I need it to be known what I really do. But I seem to see a lot of people who are only in it for the title, and if their name/title/labor isn't publicly recognized, or if they aren't given the mic or spotlight every so often, they will raise all kinds of hades. And I kinda wonder if maybe it's okay that they want to be recognized? Or is that just flesh?
Trying to work this out in my mind... could use some wisdom... Nessa? Jonathan? LL? Gtrdave? BBG? TJ? And the rest of y'all wise folks... got anything?
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Ummm..... I actually have a reply but I don't wanna do it from my phone, and I'm getting ready to leave in a sec. I don't think I have an 'answer' but just want to share some personal experiences. Hopefully I can post it when I get home.
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Ummm..... I actually have a reply but I don't wanna do it from my phone, and I'm getting ready to leave in a sec. I don't think I have an 'answer' but just want to share some personal experiences. Hopefully I can post it when I get home.
That would be awesome, thanks. Looking forward to your input.
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I have this problem. I actually don't like a lot of recognition BUT I must admit it secretly ticks me off when my leaders fall all over themselves to recognize someone who does NOTHING. I think sometimes it's the enemy, so I pray a lot about it because I am perfectly happy doing what I do, and I do it because it makes me happy. It would be just like the devil to come and start pointing out how I'm unappreciated or taken for granted, lol.
The other thing I'm learning is that being overlooked builds character. It shows you your true motives, and it also helps keep you in check. People that get too much praise and recognition, even the good, humble ones, start to get prideful after a while. It may not show blatantly, but they slowly start to expect certain treatment and accolades all the time. Their gifts slowly become "their" gifts and not something God in his gracious sovereignty has blessed them to do or learn.
That's just my take on it, though.
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Do you deal with leaders who give the impression that they want to "lead" just for recognition, accolades, authority, and/or to feel important or see their name in "lights"?
Another question that just popped into my mind. For those of you who are truly selfless leaders (specifically those who couldn't care less if their work is ever acknowledged publicly, they just want to do ministry): do you ever feel, deep on the inside, any resentment for not getting public recognition? Like, even though you don't do "it" for the recognition, do you ever have those hidden thoughts that you would never admit openly where you ponder how come they didn't call your name or include a thanks to you in the program, etc.?
I'm asking that last question because I wonder if maybe the problem isn't that people are in it for the recognition, maybe they just feel some genuine sense of resentment or something? In other words, maybe their concerns are valid?? My first guess is that they just want to be in the limelight. But as I'm typing this, I wonder if maybe they deserve some benefit of the doubt?
Personally, I'm one of those (as most admins are) who does almost all my work behind the scenes. I'm typically viewed as the person who reads the announcements, types the letters, and that's it. Most people don't realize that there are 20, 30, sometimes 40 or 50 hours worth of work done behind the scenes. I have never been one to want public recognition, nor do I need it to be known what I really do. But I seem to see a lot of people who are only in it for the title, and if their name/title/labor isn't publicly recognized, or if they aren't given the mic or spotlight every so often, they will raise all kinds of hades. And I kinda wonder if maybe it's okay that they want to be recognized? Or is that just flesh?
Trying to work this out in my mind... could use some wisdom... Nessa? Jonathan? LL? Gtrdave? BBG? TJ? And the rest of y'all wise folks... got anything?
The answer to your first question, for me, is yes. I'm fortunate with this one though, because: 1. His intentions are easy to discern. 2. He's atoning for past mistakes, so being in a leadership position isn't in the cards for him in the near future, and 3. He's under me, and I am currently counseling him. So, I get to deal with it directly.
To answer your second question, no. I don't resent not getting public recognition. The little private confirmations that the work I do is benefitting someone is enough for me.
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I have this problem. I actually don't like a lot of recognition BUT I must admit it secretly ticks me off when my leaders fall all over themselves to recognize someone who does NOTHING. I think sometimes it's the enemy, so I pray a lot about it because I am perfectly happy doing what I do, and I do it because it makes me happy. It would be just like the devil to come and start pointing out how I'm unappreciated or taken for granted, lol.
The other thing I'm learning is that being overlooked builds character. It shows you your true motives, and it also helps keep you in check. People that get too much praise and recognition, even the good, humble ones, start to get prideful after a while. It may not show blatantly, but they slowly start to expect certain treatment and accolades all the time. Their gifts slowly become "their" gifts and not something God in his gracious sovereignty has blessed them to do or learn.
That's just my take on it, though.
1. You've just been quoted on FB. ;D Mannnn, that joint was gold! LOL
2. IRT your admission of sometimes feeling a little annoyed about those who don't do JACK and get recognized as though they did something... I just want to say that you're not alone. I've felt that way myself a time or two, and I know I don't want recognition or accolades. But it can be a bit frustrating to see folks who don't do jack or complain all the while, or don't do it well - get recognized for their "labor of love" (especially when you know the person is just stroking egos for peace sake).
I don't ever have to hear my name called because if I don't know anything else, I know how appreciated I am at my church. My pastor and a few others tell me quite frequently. I think that as long as you know your work is privately acknowledged, that should suffice. BTJM.
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For question #1, I think that's everywhere, and it manifest in the way these people act, which is why you'll see them focusing more on 'hyping' than actually doing anything of substance. Some of these people, if you took them and placed them in an environment where there's no organ, no mic to shout your lungs out in, no people screaming and yelling throughout the sermon - an environment where you simply had to rely on substance, they'd be lost, because substance and practicality has taken a backseat to 'antics'. It's just about making the people 'lose themselves' so you can get a "Man, to' the church UP!" afterwards which will then, hopefully, transcend into "Man, can you come preach at our conference?"
It's sickening.
Question #2: I think it's human nature to want to be recognized. I heard a preacher preach about how glory-seeking is embedded inside of us by God - but it's meant to also be appeased by God. We, instead, look to outside sources to give us that glory and attention that we want. Outside sources that simply cannot give it.
It's like, if all of us were starving on a deserted island. We're all STARVING...but none of us knows how to cook. But there's a chef on the other side who knows how to, not only cook, but cook gourmet meals...and He's more than willing to cook for us. But instead of going to him, we continue to go to others who CAN'T COOK to feed us.
That may be a lame example. I just came up with it, but hopefully you get my drift. :D
Sometimes it's a matter of environment, as well. I've realized that in a lot of churches (namely charismatic), the musicians aren't recognized until they mess up. Then it's all eyes on them :D. Church folks always say "WE DON'T NEED NO MUSIC TO PRAISE GOD, WE CAN PRAISE HIM BY OURSELVES! I AIN'T GOT NO ORGAN AT HOME, I STILL PRAISE 'EM!"
...then when the musician doesn't show up or doesn't "set the atmosphere" the way they feel it should be "set" (not going there today), everybody starts twiddling their thumbs. :D It's like a subtle "we don't need you 'til we need you" aura.
But I've, too, noticed that a lot of small churches (especially Baptist) will go out of their way to appreciate the musician. One running joke I've heard among some musicians is that if you want to get paid REAL GOOD (for less work), play for some Baptist folks. :D
I'm speaking from a musician's standpoint, because that's all I really know. I don't know about the pastor's POV or whatever. But, yeah, I think it's human nature to want some sort of recognition, and any GOOD leader will tell you that the KEY to making sure that your team and underlings are motivated and such is to CONSTANTLY keep them uplifted and CONSTANTLY let them know how much you appreciate them. When you're dealing with a leader like that, it'll make you want to put in the work, because it's become a joy. But when you're dealing with a leader whose always on you about something, spotlighting what you do wrong while merely glancing over what you've done right - yeah...I think I'd rather watch TV tonight than spend my time practicing these songs you sent just to deal with that attitude. I'm not saying don't criticize them, but make sure it's CONSTRUCTIVE criticism - and if you have to criticize more than you apprecialize (I know that's not a word, but it rhymes :P) then there's something wrong.
But, going back to my original point, it's okay to desire attention/glory, but it's probably not a great idea to seek it from man. Man's praise is fragile, but if God exalts you, Hiya ba hondo...you better believe you SHALL be exalted. The Bible says He will take DELIGHT in prospering you. I can preach that if I want to. In addition to that, listening to man for too long will cause you to miss your blessing. Shoot, Moses lost his right to the promised land listening to the folks around him. You just can't put THAT much stock in man. It'll set you up for a fall every time.
*Phew*.....I did NOT mean to type all of that. How quickly things can turn into a rant, huh? :D
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I agree with the above long-windedposter. :D
To sum up (for those with ADD in ANY manifestation):
It's natural to desire recognition but that recognition is to be appeased by God.
And, like LaRue, I do receive recognition for my efforts from leadership and that's good enough.
Every once in a while, God will put it on someone's heart to say something to me, as well. I, immediately, thank and praise God.
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1. You've just been quoted on FB. ;D Mannnn, that joint was gold! LOL
2. IRT your admission of sometimes feeling a little annoyed about those who don't do JACK and get recognized as though they did something... I just want to say that you're not alone. I've felt that way myself a time or two, and I know I don't want recognition or accolades. But it can be a bit frustrating to see folks who don't do jack or complain all the while, or don't do it well - get recognized for their "labor of love" (especially when you know the person is just stroking egos for peace sake).
I don't ever have to hear my name called because if I don't know anything else, I know how appreciated I am at my church. My pastor and a few others tell me quite frequently. I think that as long as you know your work is privately acknowledged, that should suffice. BTJM.
True. Your post reminded me of the time my friend's dad who is also her pastor, gave out acknowledgement gifts at the end of the year. He made sure to give one to all of the complainers and trouble makers but forgot her, his own daughter, who works harder than he does! She never has a problem saying how she feels, so she told him, lol. He tried to explain he was doing it to keep the peace, but it really amounts to encouraging do-nothings to continue to do-nothing.
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Good stuff @ Teej!
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There is this one lady who's a minister at my church. She's not the church administrator but she does all the church letters, church programs, bulletins, fliers, etc. She's one of those whose feelings are hurt if you give everyone else accolades and not her. There have been numerous of times during 'closing remarks' that people would get up and say their thank-you's to certain people. Then they'd say, "Oh, and I have to say this because she always say that I never call her name, I call everyone else but her's, so thank you so much Min._______ you did an excellent job with the programs etc. etc." So now, most times she gets her accolades.
I had more to say on this.. but my thoughts are scattered.
I like what Nessa said:
The other thing I'm learning is that being overlooked builds character. It shows you your true motives, and it also helps keep you in check. People that get too much praise and recognition, even the good, humble ones, start to get prideful after a while. It may not show blatantly, but they slowly start to expect certain treatment and accolades all the time. Their gifts slowly become "their" gifts and not something God in his gracious sovereignty has blessed them to do or learn.
When are youth department was preparing for the youth convention, I was asked to help out with the youth praise team. Basically, helping them with the songs. Now, I had no intentions of singing with them, neither did I want to sing with them. But in the end, most of the younger girls wanted to dance and not sing so me and some of the chicks my age had to step in and do it. I still ended up having to teach them all the songs, figure out what we were wearing, make sure the musicians are in place all that stuff.
During rehearsal, 2 of the girls that were singing, they were kinda showing off and saying what they were gonna say or do. They were like we gotta set the atmosphere we can't be dry.. and yada yada. I'm just kinda standing there ready to go home.
Not so long story short the night we did praise and worship these chicks FROZE! Now, I normally don't step out, I normally stay in my comfort zone and try not to do anything extra or out of the ordinary for me. But THAT night...... I must say that I surprised myself, LOL.
By the end of the night, I realized my pastor/grandmother wasn't there, my co-pastor wasn't there, my mom or step-dad wasn't there, my godmother wasn't there, no one from the adult praise team was there. So I was thinking to myself, "well dang the time that I actually got a lil bold they weren't even here". Honestly, I wanted some recognition, I wanted someone to say SOMETHING. During the culmination service, the person over the youth department was just kinda giving her thank you's to whoever helped out for the youth convention. When it came down to the youth praise team she named everyone BUT me. I just kinda sat there like ?/? how could she forget me? I'M the one who you asked to help, I'M the one who did this and that.
Anyways, that whole scene played out in my head and it bothered me. Not because I didn't get any recognition but because for that moment I kinda threw ministry out the window and it was like me, me, me. And I had to question myself..... Am I doing this for the sake of ministry, or am I doing this just so that people can tell me how great of a singer I am and give me an ego boost. :-\ of course I love music ministry, and I'm never really concerned about accolades but I just really had to ask myself that. I mean it DOES feel good when people tell you how great you are and blah, blah, blah. I just don't ever wanna be the type of person who always look for that kind of attention.
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Do you deal with leaders who give the impression that they want to "lead" just for recognition, accolades, authority, and/or to feel important or see their name in "lights"?
Yes, and they show this in how they do squat during the week and come in on Sunday like they're a super star.
For question #1, I think that's everywhere, and it manifest in the way these people act, which is why you'll see them focusing more on 'hyping' than actually doing anything of substance. Some of these people, if you took them and placed them in an environment where there's no organ, no mic to shout your lungs out in, no people screaming and yelling throughout the sermon - an environment where you simply had to rely on substance, they'd be lost, because substance and practicality has taken a backseat to 'antics'. It's just about making the people 'lose themselves' so you can get a "Man, to' the church UP!" afterwards which will then, hopefully, transcend into "Man, can you come preach at our conference?"
+1
And those type of people will not minister, sing, whatever they do, at all or at the best of their ability if the audience isn't big enough for them.
Another question that just popped into my mind. For those of you who are truly selfless leaders (specifically those who couldn't care less if their work is ever acknowledged publicly, they just want to do ministry): do you ever feel, deep on the inside, any resentment for not getting public recognition? Like, even though you don't do "it" for the recognition, do you ever have those hidden thoughts that you would never admit openly where you ponder how come they didn't call your name or include a thanks to you in the program, etc.?
I'm asking that last question because I wonder if maybe the problem isn't that people are in it for the recognition, maybe they just feel some genuine sense of resentment or something? In other words, maybe their concerns are valid?? My first guess is that they just want to be in the limelight. But as I'm typing this, I wonder if maybe they deserve some benefit of the doubt?
When I was a leader I didn't really care to get recognition. If the ministry came together and did what it was supposed to do that made me feel good. What ticked me off being lied on by the leaders under me and I would get flack for something that was their responsibility. I think having all that negativity with no reassurance that you're doing something right (or correction if you're doing something wrong) can take its toll on a person and may lead to resentment of the celebrated do-nothing leaders. [DISCLAIMER: While I did get compliments, reassurance, and correction from time to time, I can imagine how crazed I would be if I didn't.]
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Quote: Anyways, that whole scene played out in my head and it bothered me. Not because I didn't get any recognition but because for that moment I kinda threw ministry out the window and it was like me, me, me. And I had to question myself..... Am I doing this for the sake of ministry, or am I doing this just so that people can tell me how great of a singer I am and give me an ego boost. of course I love music ministry, and I'm never really concerned about accolades but I just really had to ask myself that. I mean it DOES feel good when people tell you how great you are and blah, blah, blah. I just don't ever wanna be the type of person who always look for that kind of attention.
This is what I wonder about myself when it comes to wanting to get good on the drums or organ. Once I can actually play in church, will I play just to show what I can do?
OP...my Aunt was basically looked upon as a person who only does the bulletins, so when the church elected a new pastor, he decided to hire a new secretary. The new secretary wanted a new laptop and when my aunt tried to train her...her response "I ain't doing that". I guess most saints don't realize she keeps the books..works on Excel...makes sure the bills are paid...etc.
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Wow, this input is great.
LL, you're really fortunate that you're in a position to counsel your guy. That's awesome.
Thanks for your transparency, Britt. That's exactly what I was wondering about. Your story gave me the impression (which is what Teej and Jonathan said as well) that though not everyone requires public recognition, it is completely normal and healthy to want your labor to be acknowledged. I think it's human nature to want approval and it starts from the moment we are born.
But it's an entirely different matter altogether to expect/require public accolades every time you do something (especially if you want it just to spotlight to others how wonderful you are).
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I want to put a different spin on this.
What about those of us who hear compliments, and recognition all the time then out of no where it stops.
I ask this because being a gifted preacher and singer I get good respones quite often but when I don't get them it kinda troubles me. more so with my preaching than my singing. it's like if I don't hear anything from anyone it was worries me, so kinda subconciously I ask my wife or my dad (pastor). With the word it's not whether I tore it up but did I get the message across. hopefully i didn't take this too far to the left, maybe it's just me though ?/? ?/? :-\ :-\
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*sing* "To the left, to the left. Everything you own in a box to the left." Sorry just had to get that out.
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*sing* "To the left, to the left. Everything you own in a box to the left." Sorry just had to get that out.
good one. made me laugh ;D
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I want to put a different spin on this.
What about those of us who hear compliments, and recognition all the time then out of no where it stops.
I ask this because being a gifted preacher and singer I get good respones quite often but when I don't get them it kinda troubles me. more so with my preaching than my singing. it's like if I don't hear anything from anyone it was worries me, so kinda subconciously I ask my wife or my dad (pastor). With the word it's not whether I tore it up but did I get the message across. hopefully i didn't take this too far to the left, maybe it's just me though ?/? ?/? :-\ :-\
This thread is taking a nice (and useful) turn. :) This wasn't the original point of my post, but I think we can all relate to the general subject, so it's good...
Musicbishop, let me tell you this. For some reason, my pastor NEVER gives feedback. It's really interesting. He'll always tell me how much he appreciates me, couldn't do "it" without me, thanks God for me, etc. He always tells me what other people say to him about me. When they compliment my work, or make a general compliment about the church, he always forwards it to me. But he never gives me his own personal compliment about anything I've done (e.g. "you did a great job on the programs" or "the class was excellent" or "I love the nametags" or "you read the announcements so well..." :D). At first, it was really weird for me because I was accustomed to getting all kinds of feedback from my former pastor - positive AND negative. I am a minister at my church, so from time to time, I have to teach, preach, or exhort. And he NEVER says anything at all - good or bad - about it. I usually have to ask him, or just rely on feedback from other people, or just hope... that really drives me nuts at times.
My church does a prayer call three times a week. A couple of months ago, I did the call for the first time in nearly a year, and I did it again last week. I kinda sorta expected (or hoped for) a call from him to say what he thought about it, but he's just not like that. He doesn't give any of us any feedback. My friend did it this past Wednesday, and I had to call her afterward to tell her not to expect to hear from him, but to know that she did very well, etc... Another minister from our church always calls me after the call is over to see what I thought because we all know that we're not going to hear from Pastor. *shrug* That's just the way he is. The funny part is that we talk right after the prayer call - every single time, without fail. But he never says "good job today" or anything like that. He's just not like that. Maybe nobody did it to him, so he doesn't do it to us? I'm not sure.
But Nessa really nailed this one. For me, it's been good because it causes me to focus on ministry and God's approval more, and public approval less. What really gave me a black eye was when the Lord told me "you pray all the time and no one claps for you then, why do you need approval on a prayer call?" I was like DANGGGG Jesus. LOL
I would say just focus on ministry and don't worry about approval. If they stop complimenting and recognizing you, seek God for approval. If they stop asking you to minister at all, then you know you have a problem.
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LOL @ Dang Jesus!!!
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This thread is taking a nice (and useful) turn. :) This wasn't the original point of my post, but I think we can all relate to the general subject, so it's good...
Musicbishop, let me tell you this. For some reason, my pastor NEVER gives feedback. It's really interesting. He'll always tell me how much he appreciates me, couldn't do "it" without me, thanks God for me, etc. He always tells me what other people say to him about me. When they compliment my work, or make a general compliment about the church, he always forwards it to me. But he never gives me his own personal compliment about anything I've done (e.g. "you did a great job on the programs" or "the class was excellent" or "I love the nametags" or "you read the announcements so well..." :D). At first, it was really weird for me because I was accustomed to getting all kinds of feedback from my former pastor - positive AND negative. I am a minister at my church, so from time to time, I have to teach, preach, or exhort. And he NEVER says anything at all - good or bad - about it. I usually have to ask him, or just rely on feedback from other people, or just hope... that really drives me nuts at times.
My church does a prayer call three times a week. A couple of months ago, I did the call for the first time in nearly a year, and I did it again last week. I kinda sorta expected (or hoped for) a call from him to say what he thought about it, but he's just not like that. He doesn't give any of us any feedback. My friend did it this past Wednesday, and I had to call her afterward to tell her not to expect to hear from him, but to know that she did very well, etc... Another minister from our church always calls me after the call is over to see what I thought because we all know that we're not going to hear from Pastor. *shrug* That's just the way he is. The funny part is that we talk right after the prayer call - every single time, without fail. But he never says "good job today" or anything like that. He's just not like that. Maybe nobody did it to him, so he doesn't do it to us? I'm not sure.
But Nessa really nailed this one. For me, it's been good because it causes me to focus on ministry and God's approval more, and public approval less. What really gave me a black eye was when the Lord told me "you pray all the time and no one claps for you then, why do you need approval on a prayer call?" I was like DANGGGG Jesus. LOL
I would say just focus on ministry and don't worry about approval. If they stop complimenting and recognizing you, seek God for approval. If they stop asking you to minister at all, then you know you have a problem.
thanks Rue nice drop of wisdom.
But I'd rather hear something whether it's good or bad, if not it drives me nuts. At least with whatever I hear it will push me to do better regardless. even if it's good it lets me know I've gotta at least meet that mark or go even higher through the grace of God.
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I think we all have that human need for acceptance and approval. But it can turn bad quickly when it morphs into a craving for praise. As christians we should remember that we are "accepted in the Beloved". Anything else is extra.
As for dealing with others - that's a relational issue. Often we suspect them, but give ourselves the "benefit of the doubt", when it should be the other way around.
When I compliment I try to do it privately or in front of a few, concentrating on something they did well. On the other hand, our pastor likes to single someone out for fulsome praise from the pulpit. When I heard him do this with someone else I must admit I felt a little jealous and left out (I know that was wrong). Now that it's my turn I feel honored but a little embarrassed.
I'm shy about being mentioned from the platform, afraid that it will somehow stir up jealousy in others; almost like I'm thinking 'you're praising me now, so I won't get my reward in Heaven'...