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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: LaylaMonroe on March 17, 2011, 09:30:36 AM
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Forever and a day, there's been an ongoing "debate" (if you can even call it that) with those who say the earth is 13 billion years old, so the Bible must be wrong and those who say that the earth is NOT 13 billion years old, and those who say that even if it is 13 billion years old, the Bible still isn't wrong.
The same type of "debates" exist concerning Noah's Ark, Jesus turning water to wine, life on other planets, etc.
So my question is, have you ever had a discussion like that with an unbeliever? Or have you ever prepared yourself for such a discussion? What would you say to someone who asked you about how old the earth is or whether there's life on other planets, and how that reconciles with the Bible?
Sometimes I wonder if we do more damage than good when the genuinely curious unbelievers (or doubters) have questions that we can't or refuse to answer... I'm not talking about the ones who are just looking to start an argument, but the ones who really want to believe, but can't get past this hurdle or that one...
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Forever and a day, there's been an ongoing "debate" (if you can even call it that) with those who say the earth is 13 billion years old, so the Bible must be wrong and those who say that the earth is NOT 13 billion years old, and those who say that even if it is 13 billion years old, the Bible still isn't wrong.
The same type of "debates" exist concerning Noah's Ark, Jesus turning water to wine, life on other planets, etc.
So my question is, have you ever had a discussion like that with an unbeliever?
I had this discussion with myself
Or have you ever prepared yourself for such a discussion?
No, I have not prepared myself for this type of conversation, sorry.
What would you say to someone who asked you about how old the earth is or
Who cares was my first response. However after reading Gensis 1:1-2 It lead me to believe that the bible does not specifically say how old the earth is. I understand that there was some Bishop who estimated the age of the earth by looking at genealogies. However once you list the first seven "days" in the bible you get a different picture. One assumption that we make is that a day in genesis is as long as a day today. However today we know that it is possible to change the length of days. Earthquakes happen all the time, or there could be other events like meteors hitting the planet or who knows maybe the tower of Ur when it fell could have caused the earth to start to wobble (I'm joking about the wobble).
I believe this is called the Gap Theory I could be wrong.
In the end you have to take each assumption because all of these estimates use assumptions and assumptions make an (http://aux.iconpedia.net/uploads/1426295911.png)
Using the fact that the length of days is not constant. It is possible to assume (remember what assumptions make though ;) ) that the first seven days actually lasted for hundreds, or thousands or millions or billions of years.
whether there's life on other planets, and
Then there's life on other planets. If Angels can exists how come aliens can't exist. Of course the argument being presented here is that aliens prove that it is possible for a bunch of random chemicals to get together and create life. However as a christian I have not been told or read anything that said God only created things on the earth. Clearly he set about making the entire universe and it is possible for him to make some other creatures. But you have to ask him about that ;)
how that reconciles with the Bible?
See previous answer.
Now to touch on the topic the age of the universe. It is important to realize that currently science is based on theory. And that theory changes with time and even with equipment used to measure things. For example 100 years ago we didn't know much about electrons. now we are trying to find the Higgs-Boson which is way smaller. Currently we assume that the big bang happened at a central point and the universe is currently expanding. By measuring the distance between objects you can estimate ... you know what its not even important.
Ask the person who believes this as a scientist can you recreate the big bang? All science theories you should be able to reproduce. We agree gravity works because we can drop a ball. We understand wave theory because we can watch a wave travel across a pond. We know how car engines work because we done it so many times. Can a scientist cause an explosion measure the various moleclues as they expand and predict when the explosion took place? Of course this would have to take place in a vacuum. I do dare say that they will first claim it is too complicated to accurately measure something over such a short period. Then they will complain about the various interections as the explosion takes place. Then eventually they will quit and say that they are right and that believing in something you can't prove is stupid. ... now where is that picture sjon used of the pot and kettle
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In Sunday School we're studying Genesis 1-3 right now. Very interesting! Just thought i'd share that.
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I once asked a pastor-friend if he believed in life on other planets (I never did before, but at that point, I had begun to wonder). He said he really didn't know and it really didn't make a difference either way.
Then I asked him, "so, if there IS life on other planets, does the Bible apply to them too or do they have a different Bible? Does heaven belong to them, too? Are they expected to believe in an earthling named Jesus in order to have everlasting life?"
I dunno... those are just some of the questions that ran through my mind at that time. He didn't have an answer, but said that they were good questions and that he would have to look into that.
As for the earth's age, I have no idea how old it is, and I'm not really sure I care very much... but I do remember asking my SS teacher how come the Bible didn't mention dinosaurs and how come they weren't on the ark. LOL. That kinda stuff is weird to reconcile... but it's more weird when you're talking to an unbeliever who believes they have all the answers, but you really don't know anything about it because all you care about is Romans 10:9.
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This may be a very simplistic argument, but I just find it quite unsettling for fallible men -- flesh and blood -- to be so confident as to what was and wasn't here 13 BILLION YEARS AGO when they themselves haven't even been here a whole 1% of that time. And what do they use to determine these things? Instruments made by other fallible men. It's like the whole Pluto fiasco. All of these years our schools have taught that Pluto was a planet -- now, as of 2006, they discover that it isn't. Huh?
You don't believe the Bible? Okay. But the word of man isn't a very good alternative.
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Verrrry good point, Teej.
Actually, when it all comes down to it, it's all one "person's" word against another's....
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This may be a very simplistic argument, but I just find it quite unsettling for fallible men -- flesh and blood -- to be so confident as to what was and wasn't here 13 BILLION YEARS AGO when they themselves haven't even been here a whole 1% of that time. And what do they use to determine these things? Instruments made by other fallible men. It's like the whole Pluto fiasco. All of these years our schools have taught that Pluto was a planet -- now, as of 2006, they discover that it isn't. Huh?
You don't believe the Bible? Okay. But the word of man isn't a very good alternative.
I agree with the above poster.
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This may be a very simplistic argument, but I just find it quite unsettling for fallible men -- flesh and blood -- to be so confident as to what was and wasn't here 13 BILLION YEARS AGO when they themselves haven't even been here a whole 1% of that time. And what do they use to determine these things? Instruments made by other fallible men. It's like the whole Pluto fiasco. All of these years our schools have taught that Pluto was a planet -- now, as of 2006, they discover that it isn't. Huh?
You don't believe the Bible? Okay. But the word of man isn't a very good alternative.
I agree with the above poster.
What about the life on other planets subject?
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What about the life on other planets subject?
Honestly, this is a new one for me. I never knew people seriously thought there was life on other planets. I guess the same sentiment holds true -- if you haven't seen this "life" (as I'm assuming they haven't), then it's mere speculation.
Everybody knows something, but nobody really knows anything.
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WHo can help me. I need to be good at playing Gospel Style on my piano. How i can be helped? Could anyone tell me how? do you have here DVD lessons that show you a video with a piano?
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WHo can help me. I need to be good at playing Gospel Style on my piano. How i can be helped? Could anyone tell me how? do you have here DVD lessons that show you a video with a piano?
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnRMmShkWfESur6yVzupgL7VOJjeAemqPuafgyAKV1bVwDGRZzlQ)
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Honestly, this is a new one for me. I never knew people seriously thought there was life on other planets. I guess the same sentiment holds true -- if you haven't seen this "life" (as I'm assuming they haven't), then it's mere speculation.
Everybody knows something, but nobody really knows anything.
I totally agree with that.
I came across the subject because I was doing a leadership workshop and I was on the section where I discuss "God Cares About the Details." In that particular segment, I show a bunch of different examples of details in creation (such as the way the different parts in our bodies work to perform specific functions and such as the estimate that there are 100 to 200 billion different galaxies that make up the universe - ONE of which is the Milky Way, which has 200 to 400 billion stars in it, and possibly as many planets - many of them made similarly to the earth). **I just remembered that clip you posted one time of all the different galaxies** Anyway, one day I was reviewing my notes and it hit me that this world is so much bigger than we can imagine. With God being as huge and sovereign as He is, and the world being as huge as it is, it is certainly possible that other planets have life... while I don't know if I could ever buy the concept of an alien, it's not too far-fetched to imagine that there may be humans elsewhere.
Or maybe it is too far-fetched. I dunno. Just something I thought about.
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I've yet to have this conversation with someone who is actually confused and sincerely wants an answer. Generally this conversation ends up going around in circles, people start insulting other people and stop answering questions (if they even started), important questions with seemingly simple answers get ignored, and I just get annoyed.
SN: Ctrl + b and Ctrl + i work!
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([url]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnRMmShkWfESur6yVzupgL7VOJjeAemqPuafgyAKV1bVwDGRZzlQ[/url])
HAAAA!!! You must give a spew alert from now on!
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If there is another race of people on another planet they would have to be sinless. I could open up a discussion on aliens too but that may freak some people out. lol
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If there is another race of people on another planet they would have to be sinless. I could open up a discussion on aliens too but that may freak some people out. lol
Why?
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Then that would mean that Jesus would have to die for their sins too. Which would mean that they are tied to adam's sin or sin started there too. You could argue that their are not bound by the laws of our world.
There are some bible scholars who teach on aliens and their ties to the fallen angels. They give very valid arguments.
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Then that would mean that Jesus would have to die for their sins too. Which would mean that they are tied to adam's sin or sin started there too. You could argue that their are not bound by the laws of our world.
There are some bible scholars who teach on aliens and their ties to the fallen angels. They give very valid arguments.
*headache*
Okay, now I see why Christians don't like to broach this subject. (which is a shame, but hey... it is what it is)
*taps out*
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([url]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnRMmShkWfESur6yVzupgL7VOJjeAemqPuafgyAKV1bVwDGRZzlQ[/url])
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Really I started hearing about this last yr by my chaplain in MD. Hes pretty much an expert on almost everything we are talking about. The debate is pretty much between Old Earth vs New Earth. Old earth being the scientific billion yrs old belief, and New earth being maybe 6-10 thousand yrs old. I may email him and get an explanation I can share. He is really into the historical accounts of the Bible as they pertain to the world around us. I do remember him posing me a question though that still has me thinking. He said think about the advancements we've had, even in the last 100-200 yrs. If the world was 10 billion yrs old, and man has been around for even a quarter of that, how is it that only in the last 2000 yrs we advanced so much in technology, agriculture, etc? Dont you think we'd be further along?
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*headache*
Okay, now I see why Christians don't like to broach this subject. (which is a shame, but hey... it is what it is)
*taps out*
LOL
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Really I started hearing about this last yr by my chaplain in MD. Hes pretty much an expert on almost everything we are talking about. The debate is pretty much between Old Earth vs New Earth. Old earth being the scientific billion yrs old belief, and New earth being maybe 6-10 thousand yrs old. I may email him and get an explanation I can share. He is really into the historical accounts of the Bible as they pertain to the world around us. I do remember him posing me a question though that still has me thinking. He said think about the advancements we've had, even in the last 100-200 yrs. If the world was 10 billion yrs old, and man has been around for even a quarter of that, how is it that only in the last 2000 yrs we advanced so much in technology, agriculture, etc? Dont you think we'd be further along?
Maybe......
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Really I started hearing about this last yr by my chaplain in MD. Hes pretty much an expert on almost everything we are talking about. The debate is pretty much between Old Earth vs New Earth. Old earth being the scientific billion yrs old belief, and New earth being maybe 6-10 thousand yrs old. I may email him and get an explanation I can share. He is really into the historical accounts of the Bible as they pertain to the world around us. I do remember him posing me a question though that still has me thinking. He said think about the advancements we've had, even in the last 100-200 yrs. If the world was 10 billion yrs old, and man has been around for even a quarter of that, how is it that only in the last 2000 yrs we advanced so much in technology, agriculture, etc? Dont you think we'd be further along?
I've never heard anyone assert that humans have been around for (whatever number equals a quarter of 10 billion) years.
LOL @ my refusal to do the math... lol... what's that like 2.5 billion? I dunno... :-[
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I've never heard anyone assert that humans have been around for (whatever number equals a quarter of 10 billion) years.
LOL @ my refusal to do the math... lol... what's that like 2.5 billion? I dunno... :-[
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0216_050216_omo.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0216_050216_omo.html)
Not a billion, but even at 195,000 yrs, its still a valid inquiry. Ive been quite interested, and if this ADHD would cooperate I would know more lol.
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My pastor had us training over and over again on the scientific scriptures in the Bible that prove that it is true. Never did we cross the billion year thing or aliens for that matter. The alien thing I must say is a little too spooky of a rabbit hole for me to ponder
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a few lines of thought......
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POINT.
It's kinda arrogant to think that we're the onliest ones in the vast universe.
COUNTERPOINT
>>>but God is that personal to create a vast universe just for one people.
2.
Regarding the "sinless race" thing, that does make sense, since the "sin nature" comes through the bloodline, and we are all decendants of Adam. and E.T. would not be of Adam's blood.
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Check the descriptions of the "Living Creatures" described in scripture. sounds pretty alien to me.
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With regard to aliens.....,
[rude interrupt]
(http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/TheRock.JPG)
IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ALIENS![/rude interrupt]
(side note: i still wanna know what the "Nazca Lines" are for.)