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Gospel Instruments => Gospel Drummers => Topic started by: drummerboy25 on February 03, 2005, 07:19:06 PM
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Ephesians 5:18
"And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the spirit."
I wrote this scripture because i've found a lot of young/old christians for that matter seem 2 have a problem drinking.
I always hear things like ain't nothing wrong with a little wine every now and then. Of course there is the world famous quote they all use as justification "Jesus turned water into wine"
The problem with that statement is that there was a reason for him doing this which most people fail 2 inform of..... The reason Jesus turned water into wine was because the water supply was bad in Jesus' day so they had 2 drink something else, also their wine was not fermented as it is 2day. Also if u read St.Luke 1:15 , it would let u know that Jesus himself never drank...Now why is that? if Jesus could do no sin, and he would drink, what does that tell u about alcoholic beverages???? may u wanna think hard huh?
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Luke 1:15 is talking about John the Baptist, by the way.
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are u sure??? sorry i don't have my Bible in front of me, i'm going off memory.
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Yeah, it was talking about John the Baptist. Here goes from 11-17 to get a better understanding:
Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. 14He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.[a] 16Many of the people of Israel will he bring back to the Lord their God. 17And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous–to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
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ok, thanks. i apologize 4 giving the wrong scripture. i'll go back and check my Bible. i stand humbley corrected. however, if this applied 2 John as a child of God, wouldn't u think this applies 2 us believers 2day? we've been taught wrong....meaning the old testament isn't 4 us, thats a lie and trick of Satan 2 cause God's people 2 err. both books old/new are 4 the believer. please don't be deceived by any man who would tell u otherwise. and if u don't believe me, research it 4 u're self. because in my years of ministry i've found u can't just read 1 verse/scripture and leave it at that, there is a reason behind everything in the Bible and we need 2 study the old testament 2 see why whats being said in the new. Be blessed.
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these scriptures also go with Ephesians 5:18:
"Drink not the strong drink..."
"Taste not, touch not, handle not the unclean thing..."
i apologize because i can't think of the scriptures/text where these are found, but they are in the Bible.
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drummerboy25... You replied to your own posting, so you obviously feel very strongly about this issue. I salute you for having the courage to stand by your convictions.
At the same time I would advise you to not be judgemental with people who may not share the same exact view, and this is in regards to many controversial topics.
This is from Romans chapter 14 "22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves."
I would encourage you to not only read Chapter 14, but to read the whole book of Romans (it's awesome!).
A quick example of this: I know someone who won't eat 'unclean' food. I appreciate their beliefs concerning this, so while with them I'll eat Kosher, but when I'm not with them I'll eat anything (well almost... some Asian food, like pig intestines, is just too naaaaasty for me!)
Take care. Peace.
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unfortunately a lot of people take chapter 14 out of context. based on the example u've just given u're saying it's alright 4 me 2 lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, drink, etc... as long as i don't think i'm sinning i'm fine??? please help me to understand what u're trying 2 say. the book of Romans was written by Paul to the few believers in Rome at the time informing them of his new life and also as a guide to how we ought live as "born again" believers. chapter 14 speaks of faith and nothing more. re-read it u're self. Paul is instructing that everything is clean thru faith in God, therefore if u don't eat because u fill its unclean, its a sin because u don't have faith enough 2 say God has cleaned/sanctified what u're about 2 eat. again, u must remember in those days Israel was instructed on what they could and could not. this is what Paul was referring 2 only. this was the new covenant with Israel.
please 4give me, i'm not talking about u personally, but the problem with many believers 2day is that they don't study the word. they only read a few versus here and there(mainly new testament). everything in scripture is said 4 a reason and we must read the old 2 understand why something is being said in the new. perfect example would be concerning marriage/divorce. in the book of Deut. 24:1-5, Moses instructs the people 2 divorce beacuse of their constant complaining/hardend hearts. Now most people feel justified and stop there. but if u read St.Matt. 19:3-12 God has a different opinion of divorce which is until death do u part, otherwise it is adultery. (also Matt. 5:31-32 concerning God's words on divorce) :idea:
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based on the example u've just given u're saying it's alright 4 me 2 lie, cheat, steal, fornicate, drink, etc... as long as i don't think i'm sinning i'm fine???
Wow! Where did that come from? I never said that. Please reread my post... I guess there's no sense in me trying to respond to any of this, since you're not hearing what I'm saying anyway.
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I agree with you HammerRock.
Joy
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yeah, it is. so lets end it and i apologize. :(
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wow! i see this is a touchy subject huh? u got a lot of so called spirit-filled believers who see nothing wrong with drinking. lol :( huh
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To the people who are just trying to use this forum to focus on musicianship, I apologize for keeping this thread going.
**** WARNING: This post contains material pertaining to things other than music. ****
preach25, I guess to me it's so very disappointing that a lot of us rely more on what we've been taught by man than what's been revealed to us by the Spirit of God.
If you reread my posts, I didn't give drinking thumbs up or thumbs down. What I was trying to get across is that we need to rely more on our personal relationship with God through JC and less on letting whatever church we are in dictate the rules that we're supposed to live by.
**** WARNING: A short story concerning this follows. You are welcome to continue reading this, but PLEASE DO NOT take my experience as an attack on you or your church. Your experience is probably totally different than mine was. ****
When I was in a 'rules' based church I became very legalistic. I was trying to live as righteously as I could because, in my mind anyway, I thought that God would accept me and love me if only I could prove to Him that I somehow deserved His love. I wanted to please God, and being a young Christian at the time, I thought that as long as I followed what the church told me to do He would be pleased with me and love and accept me.
The problem with this is that my Christian walk became an 'All' or 'Nothing' walk. I based my belief of how God viewed me based on my following those rules. If I followed the rules and did well then God accepted me and loved me. If I broke the rules, God was angry with me and wanted to send me to Hell. Hence, the ‘All’ or ‘Nothing’ walk. When I stumbled I was certain God was mad at me, and since I was already on his ‘Hell’ list, I might as well just give up for the night/week/month.
To make matters worse, this behavior and attitude of mine was constantly being reinforced in the church. Every Sunday night there would be an altar call and the altars would be packed with people. The problem was they were the people who were already the Christians; the people already in the church! We were constantly committing and recommitting, dedicating and rededicating ourselves to the Lord.
My view of who God had became based more on what I did or didn't do rather than on who He is and who I already am in Him. I was trying to become righteous rather that accepting and putting on His righteousness. I became trapped in an endless cycle.
**** That’s enough for now. If you want to hear the happy ending to this story then reply ‘Please Continue’, otherwise I will save this stuff for my upcoming BLOG. ****
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If you reread my posts, I didn't give drinking thumbs up or thumbs down. What I was trying to get across is that we need to rely more on our personal relationship with God through JC and less on letting whatever church we are in dictate the rules that we're supposed to live by.
Just a question...I give drinking a thumbs down because the word speaks aganist it...A personal relationship with God will tell you that you need to stop drinking and anything else that God word speaks aganist. The church should speak aganist anything that the word speaks aganist...just a thought...reply and let me know...
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My view of the purpose of the church is different, but I do respect your beliefs. :D
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By the way, i think ur story is great...what a powerful story of deliverance...
My view of the purpose of the church is different, but I do respect your beliefs.
Thanks for that respect and it is the same way here, just wondering...what is your view of the church?
write back...
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I agree with you Preachaman. The church should be against what the word of God is against. However, when people do not want to live Holy like God says they take the scripures and make them what they want them to mean. So many people are blinded by the truth and the devil has many people deceived because he knows we are in the last days and his job is try to deceive people so that he can take them to Hell with him. Sorry if I sound a little upset. It upsets me that people do not like the truth and how the devil has gotten into this thing and have deceived many Christains. As I said in the previous post God wants Holiness and when we stand before him we can't say Lord didn't I cast out devils in your name and I went to the church every Sunday. God is going to say to them depart from me ye workers of inquity. (I do not recall what scripture this is but I will get it and post it later). If that scripture says that, then it clearly shows us it is not about our works it is how we live. Do we live a life that is Holy? Or do we live a life that is full of sin? A lot of people confuse God using people as God being pleased with them. God will use anyone who wants to be used but it does not mean that he is pleased with their life. That is why he said in that scripture depart from me you workers of inquity. The bottom line is that we got to be HOLY!
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??? ok. now the bible tells us live holy as christ lived. Christ died for the sins of the world because he loved us so. now when we sin the word clearly tells us that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just 2 4give us. but the word also says that he who is born of God can not sin because his spirit remains in them. (I John 3:9) now God also tells us 2 strive 4 perfection, and yes I know no one is perfect, but we should be striving 4 it. when we sin that doesn't mean God stops loving us, 4 his love in unconditional but he does hate the sin. why is it every time some1 says something the word says people always throw it back as relying on a preacher. all u have 2 do is read God's word and it explains itself. i'm not attacking any1 personally so PLEASE don't take it as such.....but it's my experience that the ones who go against the word or try 2 justify whats being said , are usually the ones guilty of such sin such as drinking since thats what were talking about.
Revelation 22:7 "Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book."
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I agree we have to be holy and righteous. The point is that I choose to accept that Holiness and Righteousness through Faith, just like forgiveness.
How can we complete what God started in us, through Faith, by works? I already AM Holy and Righteous through Faith.
I AM the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. I AM the Holiness of God in Christ Jesus.
My Holiness and Righteousness comes from God through Faith. Where does yours come from?
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Your Holiness should come from God's Holy Ghost living inside of you. You living a lifestyle like he says to in the word of God. God was Holy when he was on Earth he lived and walked Holy. Holy is a way of life. It is your lifestyle. It is not living like the Devil all week and then on Sunday appearing to be Holy. Being Holy is an everyday thing. It is in your talk, it is in your daily walk with the Lord. We are not perfect but we are striving for perfection. As the word says be ye Holy for I am Holy. God commanded us to be Holy! It seems as though you like to argue with what the word of God says HammerRock. Correct me if I am wrong. Just like the other post you said what is living HOLY? I do not know if you were trying to be funny or if you were trying to challenge what we were saying. But if you do not know what living Holy is then maybe it is apparent that you are not living it, I am just basing this off of the question you asked.
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Correct me if I am wrong. Just like the other post you said what is living HOLY? I do not know if you were trying to be funny or if you were trying to challenge what we were saying. But if you do not know what living Holy is then maybe it is apparent that you are not living it, I am just basing this off of the question you asked
You are right, you stand to be corrected! :? Who are you, you don't have a heaven or a hell to put anyone in! And you are the one who has been going back and forth on several forum attacking others as to what "holiness" is? You can't measure someone else's annointing or make a judgement call as to who is living what? Only God can read the heart.
You are the one who was agreeing back and forth with Preacherman who admitted to his lifestyle - which shows where your decernment is? And I have more respect and love for him for being honest. We are all a work in progress. No one on this God's green earth has no blemishes. Unless, you are insisting that you are perfect? So perfect that you don't need God's unmeasureable abundant grace? :?
So if you want to attack, be prepared for a response. Enough is enough. There are too many unsaved people on this site who knows this is ridiculous. So called saved folk trying to judge who is holy or not. What about thanking God they are saved. The gospel isn't for those who know it, its for the unsaved. Tell them how Jesus saves, no matter what your lifestyle, no matter what you've done. The peace and joy you can experience living for Him. That what we should be doing.
Joy
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keyboardgirl, I guess I am in good company....
John 8:49-50
49“I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge.
I asked you serious questions to better understand your position, and yet you will not answer me.
Why are you afraid to define what you believe is living Holy? Why are you afraid to tell me where your righteousness comes from?
I clearly told you that mine comes from God.
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wow!, what do u mean the gospel isn't 4 those who know it??? the word of God is 4 all saved and unsaved. it is our guide 2 know the path/life we should live as being "born again" believers. Yes, God does look at the heart, but only concerning salvation, For the word declares "many shall say they love me, but their heart is far from me. " come on guys lets be real 4 a moment....u all know what it means 2 live holy, so stop playing ignorant, the bible clearly defines Holines. being holy invloves how we act outside of the church walls. do we cheat/lie on our taxes, do we indulge in dirty conversations, do we lie on our co-workers, do we keep confusion going, do we fornicate, do we watch un-holy movies, is our conversation holy, do we tell dirty jokes and laugh at them, etc.... the bible instructs us to put off the deeds and thoughts of the old man as we strive to perfect holiness. just as keyboardgirl explained, "u can't live like u wanna all we long" then come 2 church and profess u're self as being holy. regardless of how many people want 2 argue/debate the word, God has standards and there is nothing u nor I could say 2 make God change his mind, thats why he told us 2 change ours. Flesh Is A Mess! it is Gods grace that saves us, but if we don't have a lifestyle pleasing 2 him, its all in vain. this is the reason why so many believers backslide. they weren't fully ready 2 let go the things of this world, they wanna serve God and the world, but "No man can serve 2 masters.(St. Luke16:13 & St.Matt. 6:24) Joy the book of Malachi 3:18 tells the believer 2 discern between the saved & unsaved. i don't see where u found keyboard girl as being judgemental, 2 me all she did was make a statement or give her personal opinion if u will. another point i want 2 make is this.... If she's being judgemental according 2 u, what do u call u're pastor who brings u the word every week if he preaches against something???? we are all supposed 2 be disciples of God, which simply means a follower. now correct me if i'm wrong, but the last time i checked a follower of Christ would do things/live just as Christ lived. so there again is u're holiness answer. the bible tells us that judgement must 1st begin at the house of God(I Peter 4:17) :idea: :idea: :idea:
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WOW! well spoken preach25, especially that part about the pastor. i had 2 stop & think 4 a minute on that 1 myself. lol
however, on another note...... we as believers must know that every1 is not going 2 agree with what we say. unfortunately, even if u give them the word (scriptures) they still won't agree with u saved or unsaved alike. everybody is going 2 have their own interpretation of the word and no matter what u say if people don't receive how God teaches us we must live Holy on this earth because we are his examples 2 the world that u don't have 2 live how u're living there is a better way of life, leave them alone! i found out a long time ago there is a huge religious explosion just as the Bible said it would be, and people are going 2 do what they wanna do, say what they wanna say, live how they wanna live, and act how they wanna act yet still profess they know God and r saved. Sadly i have bad news 4 those kinds of folks....the minute Flesh/Self took over Jesus left!
be blessed. :wink:
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I really appreciate it preach25 I honeslty did not feel I was being judgemental as you said I stated my opinion. In stating my opinion I was not trying to judge anyone. All I can say is I am not going to argue with anyone.
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amen keyboardgirl. u shouldn't argue the word with any1. if they don't receive the true word of God thats there business. but please note we as believers can not force living a holy lifestyle pleasing 2 God on any1 because if its not in a person's heart 2 do what they know is right, u'll just be waisting u're time. like drummerboy25 said, "every1 is not going 2 agree with u always". many so called christians have their own beliefs and interpretations of the Bible. this is evident by the world we live in 2day because many people only take out scriptures thats beneficial 2 them, but they skip over the other parts. i think drummerboy25 also said in a previous post, u can't just read the NT without reading the OT as well. everything in the Bible is said 4 a reason and instructions were given 4 a reason. the Bible teaches us that we should study 2 show our selfs approved. all u can do is put the word out and note that there will be naysayers who give the wrong interpretation of certain scriptures, so u must know God's holy word 4 u're self otherwise u will be deceived. also remember that every1 on this site though musicians are not saved and holyghost filled, so they will attack u. but again, DO NOT ARGUE with them, thats all the devil wants 2 happen, so the unsaved can sit back and say look at them always arguing but yet they talk about living holy. isn't it funny how the unsaved know the word, but yet they don't want 2 live it. lol :D
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WOW!! PTL LGM saints! WE are stepping up on this forum, we must live holy as God directs us to do so!
Im glad to read the posts!
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preach25, thank you for taking the time to explain what holiness means to you. I appreciate your energy and enthusiasm for the Lord! What follows is how I would view and define holiness. I write it in love. Please don't take it as an attack. (I love you guys too much for that!)
the word of God is 4 all saved and unsaved. it is our guide 2 know the path/life we should live as being "born again" believers.
John 16:12-15
12 “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
John 14:23-26
23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
John 3:5-8
5Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
Galations 5:16-26
16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and selfcontrol. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
I believe the Holy Spirit guides and teaches me on this path that I have chosen. What kind of message would I send if I gave people a list of do's and don'ts and instructed them that they need to follow them in order to be saved and have a relationship with the Lord? Shouldn't I instead be instructing them on how they can have a relationship with the Lord? Jesus taught His disciples how to pray. That sounds like a good place to start! :D
I said that I beleive Jesus to be my holiness, righteousness, and redemption. My confidence in life comes from knowing who He is and who I am in Him. He is my righteousness, my redemption, and my holiness. Because I choose not to follow (or listen to) man's rules, it doesn't mean I am the worst sinner in the world.
Putting on Christ and walking in Him frees me from worrying about crossing the T's and dotting the I's. I am free to follow wherever the Spirit of God leads me. I am free to spend my time becoming who He created me to be because I already am who He created me to be.
To some this is doublespeak. To me this is Truth. It's like I just won the Superbowl, but my championship lasts a lifetime! Think of it! I need to learn to walk as a champion because I am already am a champion!
The 'prize' is mentioned 4 times in the new testament. The first word that popped into your head when you heard this is what you beleive the 'prize' to be. You may beleive and have been taught that the prize is eternal life or salvation, but I beleive I already have salvation. The second chapter of Colossians gives a better understanding of the prize. Follow this link:
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Colossians%202;&version=31;
I wish I had more time to respond, but my kids want to spend some time with me now. God bless! Talk to you soon.