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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: rut on October 10, 2011, 09:24:34 PM
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FAMILY,
Why do I hear that famous preachers ask for monetary gifts of 5k and more... I thought we suppose to be preaching the Gospel to win souls for Christ... Im not saying not to give them anything but these ridculous offerings is crazy... I rather preach and know 100 people got saved and recieve what they're able to give me than to preach and get 5k plus and only 5 people repented.... #IJS
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I think my sis is better suited to answer this, but I think sometimes logistics may come into play depending on where it is. I do know that JPK was wylin on twitter about preachers charging like 15,000+ dollars to preach. SMH
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I've never heard a sermon worth $15,000.
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I know I mean thats just crazy I mean what are they paying for imagine 15,000 of service and they do 4 services in one week.. then I hear they're preacing the same messages in every city.... and soem make the mistake and preach the same message twice in the same state...
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Black churches have a history of taking advantage of people's gifts. That may factor in to it but I think it's crazy to charge ridiculous high amounts for sermons, but.....
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yeah, i'm gonna wait on a certain users response as BBG alluded to on this topic
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I think it's crazy.. and I think Jesus mentioned folks like that in Mt 7:22 .....
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I see nothing wrong with it. It's supply and demand. If TD Jakes' fee was $400, he'd have thousands of requests a year. The more famous you are, the busier you are and the more valuable your time is.
Also the more famous the guest preacher/artist is, the more people will show up at your church for that particular event, thus increasing the amount of money your church will get in the offering that night. Why should you exploit that minister's name/brand and not compensate him/her accordingly? It's a shame when churches want something for nothing.
And why do you have to have a big name preach for you? If it's all about the message, then find somebody who will preach just as good or better and who will do it for free or cheap.
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I see nothing wrong with it. It's supply and demand. If TD Jakes' fee was $400, he'd have thousands of requests a year. The more famous you are, the busier you are and the more valuable your time is.
Also the more famous the guest preacher/artist is, the more people will show up at your church for that particular event, thus increasing the amount of money your church will get in the offering that night. Why should you exploit that minister's name/brand and not compensate him/her accordingly? It's a shame when churches want something for nothing.
And why do you have to have a big name preach for you? If it's all about the message, then find somebody who will preach just as good or better and who will do it for free or cheap.
But doesn't that make the focus of the purpose for speaking to the people of God more about money than about the ministry?
In all actuality, I actually agree with most of your basic message. I'm just concerned that we're bringing in capitalistic tendencies into the church...*sigh*
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I don't really have anything to say at this point. We discussed this once before and Sis. T really nailed it (if I remember correctly. May have been Nessa or Redd?). Anyway, maybe PHB can find it.
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I don't really have anything to say at this point. We discussed this once before and Sis. T really nailed it (if I remember correctly. May have been Nessa or Redd?). Anyway, maybe PHB can find it.
Yes PHB....come to rescue! LOL!
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If Bishop Jakes, charge you a $400 fee to preach at your church and for accommodation, you have to hold 5 services. Your church is able to hold 1,000 members in the sanctuary, not including overflow rooms (which boost your numbers up to 1200). If you pack out each service (which you probably will) you have had 6000 people come and see Bishop Jakes. If each member gives $5, your church grossed 30k ($29,600 after Jakes fee). Is that right, when you used his name to gross that amount (When you know good and well, Pastor Jones from around the neighborhood wouldn’t have done the same thing, respectively)? In addition, this man has traveling expenses, a family to care for as well as his own church. Shouldn’t the church give him at least 20% of the gross (that is $1 per member)?
SN: Just as someone stated, a lot of churches (Black churches) will pay your fee and keep it moving. Then call you next year to do the same thing. It is not about the money, it is just bizness.
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I dont think its wrong to ask... You can ask what ever you like.
IMO... I think its wrong to charge anyone for a word from the Lord... That is freely given...
The sad part is people... Not Christians per-se....
Paying someone to come to your church to preach is a fad to me... If you cant get the word from me... and you'd rather hear it from Bishop Jakes... Then go to his church...
The whole thing is just stupid... The word is the word is the word... Whether it comes from Joe blow on the street corner or some high priced celeb...
....it is just bizness.
To me... This is where the problem lies...
The church has become a business and no longer a place of worship...
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I dont think its wrong to ask... You can ask what ever you like.
IMO... I think its wrong to charge anyone for a word from the Lord... That is freely given...
The sad part is people... Not Christians per-se....
Paying someone to come to your church to preach is a fad to me... If you cant get the word from me... and you'd rather hear it from Bishop Jakes... Then go to his church...
The whole thing is just stupid... The word is the word is the word... Whether it comes from Joe blow on the street corner or some high priced celeb...
To me... This is where the problem lies...
The church has become a business and no longer a place of worship...
I agree with all of this.
That is all.
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To me... This is where the problem lies...
The church has become a business and no longer a place of worship...
It is still a place of worship, but nevertheless it is still a business. You can't worship in the winter time with no heat. You can't worship in the summer time with no air conditioning. You can't park in a parking lot, where the pavement is broken and unsafe. You can't use the bathroom if there is no plumbing nor wash your hands if there is no water. You can't worship at night, if there are no lights. You get my drift. Why should it not be treated as such? If you are asking, "If a church should make a profit (thread from yesterday)," then that is another question.
IRT the topic, It isn't charging for the word, it is paying for their services, prep, travel expenses, etc. Do I think that some of the demands are outrageous? They probably are, but comparitive to whom? If this is their lively hood, how do you suggest they support their family? Bishop Jakes, Pastor Williams, Minister Cash, Evangelist Sealy, whomever it is. You are asking them to take time from thier means of income, to come and bring you something for free and you (not you directly) don't want to compensate them for their time sacrificed. Yes I know that God will supply, but what you are saying is to use "The preacher's" name to gain much attention, reap the benefits and send the preacher on his/her way.
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It is still a place of worship, but nevertheless it is still a business. You can't worship in the winter time with no heat. You can't worship in the summer time with no air conditioning. You can't park in a parking lot, where the pavement is broken and unsafe. You can't use the bathroom if there is no plumbing nor wash your hands if there is no water. You can't worship at night, if there are no lights. You get my drift. Why should it not be treated as such? If you are asking, "If a church should make a profit (thread from yesterday)," then that is another question.
IRT the topic, It isn't charging for the word, it is paying for their services, prep, travel expenses, etc. Do I think that some of the demands are outrageous? They probably are, but comparitive to whom? If this is their lively hood, how do you suggest they support their family? Bishop Jakes, Pastor Williams, Minister Cash, Evangelist Sealy, whomever it is. You are asking them to take time from thier means of income, to come and bring you something for free and you (not you directly) don't want to compensate them for their time sacrificed. Yes I know that God will supply, but what you are saying is to use "The preacher's" name to gain much attention, reap the benefits and send the preacher on his/her way.
Good points. I'd still argue that the church has became a business because it is accepted as such, not because it should be.
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Rut,
Your not the only one who feels the way you do. Below are a few threads talking about the same thing. I wanted to quote some of the posts. But its too easy to take a quote out of context (you know like how some people, not you or I of course ;), take one scripture out of context in the bible.
The first one is a powerful discussion about this topic. It veers off course after awhile. But I am sure you will see where this conversation was headed towards.
Preaching Engagement Honorariums (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,73214.0.html)
Now in this following threads (they are sort of related) iamworship points out a few verses.
Money For Preaching! (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,39287.0.html)
***NEW CONCEPT FOR LGM: THE "WORD" APPROACH TO DISCUSSIONS*** (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,39274.0.html)
SisterT is in all of these threads. However I was not able to find the exact posts that others have alluded too :(
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Wow! Y'all were brutal back in the day...LOL!
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I think that's just being plain ole greedy!!!
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Wow! Y'all were brutal back in the day...LOL!
did we change?
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It is still a place of worship, but nevertheless it is still a business. You can't worship in the winter time with no heat. You can't worship in the summer time with no air conditioning. You can't park in a parking lot, where the pavement is broken and unsafe. You can't use the bathroom if there is no plumbing nor wash your hands if there is no water. You can't worship at night, if there are no lights. You get my drift. Why should it not be treated as such? If you are asking, "If a church should make a profit (thread from yesterday)," then that is another question.
IRT the topic, It isn't charging for the word, it is paying for their services, prep, travel expenses, etc. Do I think that some of the demands are outrageous? They probably are, but comparitive to whom? If this is their lively hood, how do you suggest they support their family? Bishop Jakes, Pastor Williams, Minister Cash, Evangelist Sealy, whomever it is. You are asking them to take time from thier means of income, to come and bring you something for free and you (not you directly) don't want to compensate them for their time sacrificed. Yes I know that God will supply, but what you are saying is to use "The preacher's" name to gain much attention, reap the benefits and send the preacher on his/her way.
You make some valid points... But I still stand on what I stated...
And I will add... The money used to pay these people... should be used to do everything you stated... But I figure if they have enough to pay for a celeb then their bills should be straight... I'm just saying...
To me church has become just something to do for some people...
Jesus didnt charge people to hear him speak... He taught and spoke out in the open as well as in the churches...
IMO... If you treat the church like a business you get away from what its supposed to be...
The great commison Matt 28:19 go ye therefore and teach the nations... Businesses dont do that...
But I will say this... if you are okay with treating the church like a business then okay... Kudos to you...
I'm just saying that I am not okay with it... Because you easierly get away from the mission...
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did we change?
Uh yeah....LOL! We don't debate like that these days!
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Uh yeah....LOL! We don't debate like that these days!
That is because people would get easierly offended when THEIR beliefs/opinions were challenged...
I ont know about anyone else I love a good debate...:D
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since it is a slow day
this is truly a minor issue. If said person asks for too much. Just ask someone else and if all else fails pray about it and do it yourself.
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You make some valid points... But I still stand on what I stated...
And I will add... The money used to pay these people... should be used to do everything you stated... But I figure if they have enough to pay for a celeb then their bills should be straight... I'm just saying...
To me church has become just something to do for some people...
Jesus didnt charge people to hear him speak... He taught and spoke out in the open as well as in the churches...
IMO... If you treat the church like a business you get away from what its supposed to be...
The great commison Matt 28:19 go ye therefore and teach the nations... Businesses dont do that...
But I will say this... if you are okay with treating the church like a business then okay... Kudos to you...
I'm just saying that I am not okay with it... Because you easierly get away from the mission...
He never wanted for anything as well. When he needed a place to stay, they opened their doors to provide him with rest. When He was hungry, they provided him with food. If people were as generous (and wouldn't take advantage) you would probably have less people charging fees. We are living in a day and time, when a dollar is attached to everything we do. For that reason, the cycle continues. Unfortunately to many churches will take advantage of your services.
Once again, I am not saying whether it is wrong or right. However, I understand the concept.
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Unfortunately to many churches will take advantage of your services.
I think almost every musician here can attest to that
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He never wanted for anything as well. When he needed a place to stay, they opened their doors to provide him with rest. When He was hungry, they provided him with food. If people were as generous (and wouldn't take advantage) you would probably have less people charging fees. We are living in a day and time, when a dollar is attached to everything we do. For that reason, the cycle continues. Unfortunately to many churches will take advantage of your services.
Once again, I am not saying whether it is wrong or right. However, I understand the concept.
Yep! Totally agree with you!
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Yep! Totally agree with you!
It is sad in a sense. When you look at it, the basis of charging is because individuals can’t trust the church to be honest when it comes to compensation. The church will start paying you what they think your services were worth (which is good in some cases) and not taking everything into consideration.
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It is sad in a sense. When you look at it, the basis of charging is because individuals can’t trust the church to be honest when it comes to compensation. The church will start paying you what they think your services were worth (which is good in some cases) and not taking everything into consideration.
+1
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He never wanted for anything as well. When he needed a place to stay, they opened their doors to provide him with rest. When He was hungry, they provided him with food. If people were as generous (and wouldn't take advantage) you would probably have less people charging fees. We are living in a day and time, when a dollar is attached to everything we do. For that reason, the cycle continues. Unfortunately to many churches will take advantage of your services.
Once again, I am not saying whether it is wrong or right. However, I understand the concept.
It is sad in a sense. When you look at it, the basis of charging is because individuals can’t trust the church to be honest when it comes to compensation. The church will start paying you what they think your services were worth (which is good in some cases) and not taking everything into consideration.
I agree...
We are living in a time where a dollar is attached to everything... and to me that is because a lot of the teachings we were brought up on, have been replaced with "Preach me Happy" teachings...
What ever happened to preaching on fruits of the spirit?
REAL teachings on faith!
Not these "Your breakthrough is coming in 3days" type of sermons... I know that is a bit off of the topic buuuuuuut... The root of this issue is much greater than "How much you charge to come preach/play at my church?"
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Church is a business. It always has been.
You want a famous preacher, the price will be paid.
If you feel the "Word" should be free, get someone in your church to minister.
I'm not famous, but I get paid every time I'm asked to direct a workshop choir or MC a concert.
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Church is a business. It always has been.
You want a famous preacher, the price will be paid.
If you feel the "Word" should be free, get someone in your church to minister.
I'm not famous, but I get paid every time I'm asked to direct a workshop choir or MC a concert.
I just remembered, it was you and me in that other thread I'm thinking of...
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It is still a place of worship, but nevertheless it is still a business. You can't worship in the winter time with no heat. You can't worship in the summer time with no air conditioning. You can't park in a parking lot, where the pavement is broken and unsafe. You can't use the bathroom if there is no plumbing nor wash your hands if there is no water. You can't worship at night, if there are no lights. You get my drift. Why should it not be treated as such? If you are asking, "If a church should make a profit (thread from yesterday)," then that is another question.
business =/= organization. The word "business" implies that there is a profit made at some point.
I see nothing wrong with it. It's supply and demand. If TD Jakes' fee was $400, he'd have thousands of requests a year. The more famous you are, the busier you are and the more valuable your time is.
I agree.
IMO, I think a fee should be reasonable and (maybe) based on travel, lodging, other traveling fees including parking if necessary, food, if you asked them to bring their choir or whatever, if they have to bring someone with them (like if the person has an issue and keeps a personal doctor or someone around just in case. Lol. Idk)., and for the time between the booking and the event. If this church booked last minute and the pastor accepted they should have to pay more because not only does this guy have to prep a sermon for his church, he has to prep one for their church and probably in a shorter amount of time. (assuming God gives the preacher a different word for each of the churches) BTW, why do people even call these pasts from thousands of miles away? What makes preacher A better than preacher B unless preacher B is just the pits and so are all the other pastors within a 100 mile radius? If it means that much to go get this person whether it is to draw more people to your local assembly or whatever, you can't be too mad when they charge a lot unless it's a crazy amount. That said, I wouldn't pay $5,000 for a preacher from down the street. They can't convince me they're not worth that much when I can stand outside their church and hear the message AND skip offering if I choose. Lol! #heathensentence However, if there was a preacher in Scotland who had an amazing gift that I figured would really help my congregation, I'm not sure if I'd have a problem with a $5,000 fee provided it's necessary.
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I love how he starts a thread and never returns to it. At least he didn't make a video this time.
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Bwa!!!!! Leave it to ole Uey. :D :D :D
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Church is a business. It always has been.
You want a famous preacher, the price will be paid.
If you feel the "Word" should be free, get someone in your church to minister.
I'm not famous, but I get paid every time I'm asked to direct a workshop choir or MC a concert.
Short and to-the-point. I like that!!! :D
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yall are really coming for me lol I guess I need to check back in more often....
:) ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks Sjon for pulling up those threads. So here is what I said back then:
LaRue, I loved your answer to this statement.
BaptChurchman - Since we are all the same, I'll come and preach at your church if the "named" person doesn't. I got the same Jesus, and the same Bible. (SMILE). I don't charge either. Just give me some gas money, feed me, and if needed put me in a hotel overnight. It's between you and God whether you'd like to bless me any further. {SMILE}
Now, I CAN PREACH....but......
I don't have a "big name" so I might not draw a big crowd. But is it a crowd you want or a Word? Let's keep it real----most folk desire both!
No, preachers are not all the same....we have the same God, but some have a greater anointing than others. If I was a "name", I don't know what I'd do as far as "honorariums". I haven't been in that place. But being at a big name church and working with big name preachers and singers I do see the other side. The fee covers a lot of expenses that we really don't know about. Bringing people with them (assistants, security), product shipping, etc. But the real truth is this---we wouldn't consider them if they weren't a name.
I do agree that some of the fees are outrageous. Some are reasonable. I still respect the gift that God has placed in each. And here's another truth.....the reason why some charge high fees is because people are willing to pay for it. We don't mind paying a registration fee of 50 bucks to hear TD Jakes at a conference....but let Sister T preach at a conference for a registration fee of 25 bucks-----you'd be asking WHO IS SISTER T?
Honestly, we always talk about preachers pimping the congregation, but there is a flipside---Churches sometimes Pimp the Preacher! A local church invited a preacher whom they knew upfront charges an unreachable fee. When the guest preacher got to the church he asked for his fee upfront as contractually agreed. The church did not have the money and suggested he'd preach and they would give him the money from the offering that would be collected. That church knew they couldn't afford that preacher's terms. But they anticipated he would pick up an offering that would cover his fee. Thast church deceived the preacher when they should have been honest at the beginning.
It has become necessary in a sense for preachers to have a fee, because like I said in the past, we wouldn't have invited them if they weren't of "celebrity" status. Instead of getting mad that they want to be paid, just do the obvious---Don't invite them or support their events.
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I think it can be a little greedy to ask for such a huge amount upfront. It's cool to ask the church ur visiting to pay for hotel and airfare and maybe your food. But to aske for (15k) such an outrageous amount is insane. The if Jesus charged for the gospel, many of us would be bound today becase he is the living word!!! I just thank God that he gave his son freely!!!
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Short and to-the-point. I like that!!! :D
I save the long winded responses for the employee manuals I write. :D