LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Gospel Drummers => Topic started by: OhioDrummer on March 01, 2005, 01:49:21 PM
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IS IT WRONG IF YOU PLAY A SECULAR MUSIC GIG.... I DONT SEE THE PROBLEM WITH IT BUT ALOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO DISAGREE WITH ME....
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Soldier, you have to use your heart and common sense. I was just faced with the same dillemma. Listen to the words of the song, look at the artists' lifestlye behind the music. Example: R&B - Are the songs promoting sex before marriage? Brother, here's is the best way I can put it, if Jesus was standing next to you while you are playing, would you keep playing? Matters of the heart is what strengthens us as Christians and we can not afford to contridict our beliefs for anyone. Here's another question, should we take licks and loops from the world and put it in gospel music? I believe the answer is no! I think that the devil laughs at gospel musicians everytime we take something from the world and place it gospel music and have Gods people bopping and grooving with the music. God gave Lucifer his gift while he was in heaven, what more will he give you if you stay in his will? Be steadfast soldier, you're not alone.
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I agree with you except this one point:
Here's another question, should we take licks and loops from the world and put it in gospel music? I believe the answer is no! I think that the devil laughs at gospel musicians everytime we take something from the world and place it gospel music and have Gods people bopping and grooving with the music.
Considering most of the musicians I have run into that play secular music are/were church musicians. I think it is a matter of secular music taking from gospel music as opposed to the other way around. Just my two cents.
By the way, I think that every man/woman must examine himself/herself. I choose not to go that way but that's just me. I've already stated my reason on another thread.
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Yeah, D! This waymon!
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Sup! 8)
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Let me throw a monkey wrench in this whole thing.
Lets say that your "livelyhood" is being a musician. You make your bread and butter as a musician. Just as alot of us that have full time jobs doing other things in "secular" companies. I myself work with alot of carnal people that sometimes make it difficult to walk in the light if you know what I mean. Aren't we the pot calling the kettle black if we work in a secular environment, and pointing the finger at a musician playing secular music. This is a topic that is between God and self. There is no right or wrong answer here. I would not know how to say this way or that way what God will judge in this area. It is up to us to be "Christian" no matter what we must go through in our Earthly lives.
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This is a hot topic.
Let a man examine himself, and decide if he is partaking of the Lord's blood and body worthily or unworthily. Jesus shed his blood as a living sacrifice. He acts as our lawyer, before His Father God who is the judge.
We take this communion to remind us of His sacrifice. If we plan to continue in will-full sin after taking communion then we drink our own damnation.
I personally don't think that playing popular music is participating in will-full sin. I have played for a lot of church weddings in my life, and played popular songs for the couple. I have personal standards, and will not play what I personally feel is obscence or offensive music, or accompany any vocalist or rapper who choses to do so.
A person should examine themselves and what is involved in the gig. Yes we all need money to survive, however am I going to let some body use me because I need money to live? I won't do that.
It is not fair for me to discuss this, since I am middle aged. I have already played secular music in clubs for decades. I won't do it anymore, but then I don't have any desire to do it. A young person must decide for himself how he wishes to use his talents.
Music for the church satisfies me completely.
brother scott
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Man this is a deep subject here. I'm dealing with this issue myself. I think that the bottom line of the matter is that:
#1 As believers we say that we are children of God, royality! We are suppose to have things better than the world. The fact is that church aren't keeping it real today! The bottom line it that churches are not paying musician fare wages. Only mega churches are paying out. Guys like myself that are fulltime musician are caught in a hard place. If churches invested in there musicians they wouldn't have to do sectular or other gig to make it.
#2 People say all the time that I don't play sectular music. To a career musician what are they going to do! oh! Play for three churches right! How can you be dependable and play 110% You will burn yourself out. I play only gospel now. I have tour international, world wide! My view is that monday- friday christian work in a sectular enivornment. Depending on there growth level some christians don't need to be around certain things. If you are weak when it come to smoking, why get a job where you are tempted. If woman is our down fall, why gig in a club!
#3 Playing sectular is wrong, I think you have to way out what type of gig you are playing for. If you are weak in or a baby in Christ you need to stay away from the world things. As christian we worship 24 hrs day. Everything is about God first! We are light for God and we need to becareful of the gigs we chose. I am praying for my church to invested in the musician, so that it want be a question about playing sectular.
#4 We as christian have a bad way of isolating yourself from the world too. How are we going to help save people and we don't want to be around them. If they see you go to your tour bus after a gig than going to a club for the after party is a good things. They can see the differents in you.
This is a gray area for me, I say church need to step up so the chose would be easier!
The thing is that we need church to pay!
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Well,
My opinion in this discussion is that it is all about self-examination. Not making a excuse or anything but being young is hard in todays society. I'm 17 and I chose to keep secular music out of my playin because I want to give all Glory to God. Now if I am playin secular music, then I am giving the devil room to come in. Believe it or not, there are spirits in music. You have to watch what you feed your ears, eyes, mind, and soul. But then again, who are we to judge. You soe the seeds that you reep. And when it comes harvest time, just hope that you reeped some good seeds. Thats just my lil input.
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I REALLY DONT KNOW WHAT TO THINK..... IF I WAS A GIFTED PAINTER AND NOT A MUSICIAN WOULD I ONLY PAINT CHRISTIANS HOUSE????? IF I WAS A GIFTED BBALL PLAYER WOULD I ONLY PLAY FOR THE CHURCH LEAGUE...... I GUESS ANOTHER QUESTION IS...... IS ALL SECULAR MUSIC BAD????? CAN SECULAR MUSIC BE USED TO REACH I DIFFERENT GROUP OF PEOPLE WITH A POSITIVE MESSAGE????? EXACTLY WHAT IS SECULAR MUSIC........
*** I THINK IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHO YOU ARE GLORIFYING WHEN YOU ARE PLAYING THE MUSIC........ DONT GLORIFY SECULAR ARTIST......***
KEEP THE REPLYS COMING THIS IS A TOUCHY SUBJECT AND I WANT TO SEE OTHERS OPINION EVEN THOUGH I THINK YOUR FINAL DECISION SHOULD COME FROM GOD.... ASK GOD WHAT TO DO AND HE SHALL GUIDE YOU....
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I look at music as being just that, music. I mean there are a whole lot of music songs that sound like other songs. I heard this one song by Norman Hutchins and it had music in that song that was the same music Alicia Keys uses for "If I Ain't Got You" and I believe Norman Hutchins is saved. So you saying just cuz he had that music in there that he is wrong? It all depends on "who" you playing for. I mean I add some what yall call "secular" stuff into my playing cuz the kids like to jam in church istead of play the same old boring hymns and stuff. There is nothing wrong with what you play, just the motive behind it.
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I have never really had a full time job in my life. I have been blessed to be a professional musician and tour with artist outside of church. This matter is between an individual and God. For me personally, I do not play with artist who promote certain things that I do not believe in. The lyrical content matters to me just as much as how fun the music is. We are supposed to be in the world and not of the world. To me, this means that God is going to hold me responsible for how I conduct myself while I live my life in a natural world.
Will you tell a Christian plumber to avoid fixing a busted pipe in a bar? Will you tell a hair stylist not to do the hair of people who are not Christians. Will you tell a teacher to only teach in Christian schools and leave public education alone? To me, there is a double standard going on in churches. Musicians have more boundaries on them than any other people in the church.
As far as secular music goes, what do you consider it to be? There are a ton of gospel artist who do not represent God. In fact, most do not. (just my opinion) Is there any difference in playing for an ungodly Christian artist vs playing for Marilyn Manson? No. If the spirit of a Christian artist is corrupt, there is not a difference at all.
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WOW this a real strong Topic on this board. I really feel as though playing Secular music is not a problem, For one iam a musician my self i play for my church and iam real cool with Gerald Heyward and he is saved filled with the holy ghost and he plays for secular artist, i really just look at like this we are in this world but we are not the things of this world. Seriously if everybody wanted to make a big deal about musicians playing for secular artist then everybody should quit their regular jobs because 9 times out of 10 we are working for people that are not saved and don't want to even no who God is so i think we should not be one minded and keep our minds open. Cause really being a musician and getting paid for it is a job and thats how they eat. So we can't knock their hustle.. :D
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Yo cool subject. Playing music for a church is not a job. Its doing what God has gifited you to do. Fortunately we are getting bless for doing so. I must agree with a statement that was made earlier, there are spirits in music. I am anointed to play so that yokes can be broken and devils can flee( read story of David playing in the bible). Its either worshiping God or worsiping the devil. I don't have the time to research the scriptures but in the bible before the devil was cast out of heaven he played an important part in "music". Now that he is out of heaven he desires to get all of the worship especially throughe music. Thats why the picture is being painted by the deciever (the devil) that secular music and church music is one in the same. Its not.. Be in this world but not of this world means don't compromise Gods plan. Theres are to forces on this earth, the church and the world or God and the devil. Now the devil has used the world music and decieved the church into receiving it. Thats not cool, how can the two walk together except they agree. What place does light have with darkness. The church need to be influencing the world not recieving what they are doing. If we don't realize what the devil is doing than we will compromise the standards of God. I don't want to have nothing to do with something satan has his hand in.
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What about fulltime musician? How are they going to make a living if churches aren't helping keep musicians from playing sectular gigs?
To me if churches was paying properly this question wouldn't be about playing sectular it wouldn't be a issue for christian musicians.
It's funny how churches want the things of the world but they don't want to invest in it.Some of the drums guy play on I'm like Yo you need a kit bad 8O Plus, they want you to comment to everything 3 service evening lord supper, go to other churches etc! Just out of your kinds.
Man ministry cost! The pastor and the staff are getting there believe it. Sorry to say it but its two sides ministry and business someone have to make sure the church bills are being paid! Tithes is for the church, GOD don't need our money!
Bad thing about musician is that they will tour for byonce or whoever for $100 a gig just to get there name out there ( wake up it Business! ) I have a family to feed.
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well i dont think playing jazz or rnb is a problem. it just depends on the artists u play 4. there are a lot of respectable/decent rnb artists that i would play 4. some on my list are brian mcknight, angie stone, anthony hamilton, jill scott, vivian green, dave hollister, gerald levert, mary j blige, and some more that i cant think of right now. but we also gotta ask ourselves this: is it ok to play for any gospel artist? cuz we all know a lot of artists are not even tryin to live what they sing about. some gospel artists are openly gay, drink smoke, etc. so u really gotta jus seek god for who u should play for. and im not judging anyone, cuz we all got issues to work out in our own lives. but whoever u chose to play for, take a look at the person and see what they stand for and what there believes are. and decide if u want to be seen supporting that persons music. and most importantly, ask the lord about it. he might put u in a weird place to minister to someone, and feed your family at the same time. i mean, should kirk, fred hammond, or tye tribbet open up for secular artists at concerts? some whould say no, but thats an awesome chance to spread the message to folks who dont normally go to church, and be blessed financially as well. thats jus my opinon. god bless yall.
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Hey and thanks for the well-thought out replies!! I am a jazz musician and a minister of music. I studied jazz in H/S and college and it helped build my theory playing gospel music. I had people in my church criticize me, but what they didn't know was that I use my jazz theory every Sunday when they are slain in the spirit or running around shouting. Peter said that we must 'seek out our own soul salvation' so the gig is not sin, but if you can not gig with that artist and be 'saved' you need to leave!! Truth be told, many secular artists want to come into the church, but they are financially satisfied on singing music that isn't gospel. God judges the hearts, but we are responsible for how we help increase the kingdom!! Anybody ever ask Wynton Marsalis this question...?
God gave us the gift and when you ask Him, He'll provide the provision!! You shouldn't expect the church to pay anything!! To get anything at all is a bonus considering what God saved us from!! Professional musicians are just that...PROFESSIONALS!! The bible tells us that "the workman is worthy of his hire"; and "the man that doesn't work doesn't eat." Music is our profession, so we must work and never neglect to: LET OUR LIGHTS SO SHINE BEFORE MEN THAT THEY MAY SEE OUR GOOD WORKS AND GLORIFY YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN.(Matt. 5:14)
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dude most of the bands on all the big tours right now are chrstians :D like ushers band & justin timbmerlake & so much more :!:
out :wink:
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As far as secular music goes, what do you consider it to be? There are a ton of gospel artist who do not represent God. In fact, most do not. (just my opinion) Is there any difference in playing for an ungodly Christian artist vs playing for Marilyn Manson? No. If the spirit of a Christian artist is corrupt, there is not a difference at all.[/quote]
you have got to be kidding there is a difference.... the main difference is when you play play gospel you are giving god the glory.... when you play drums god is working through you.... as far as i see it when anyone plays the drums god is working through us and when people say that a drummer is horrible then they are saying god is horrible because of the fact that he placed them where they are....... Second marilyn manson..... come on now this guy worships the devil... so there for the devil is getting the glory..... and who are we to say someone is not a christian or a unsaved musician....... god is the only one who can make that decision...
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I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Marilyn Manson is actually an ordained minister for the church of satanism.
BIG difference.
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Well, that is fine that you guys feel that way. I ain't hating, but I know without a doubt what my God feels about the situation. There is no difference between a person "living in sin" and singing gospel vs a satan worshiper performing. Why? Either you belong to God or you do not. Don't think for a second that just because someone is singing gospel, that God is getting the glory. That is a lie straight from the pit of hell. There is so much corrupt behavior through not just musicians, but leadership in the church in general. That is a major reason why the church today, in genral is not very effective. Regardless of what you say, we need to keep it real. Let me ask you this. Can a person who "lives in sin" posess the spirit of God?
My understanding from the bible: no. God's spirit can not dwell in a filthy man no matter what he sings about or what church he plays in. If you want to go to the scripture, we can go there, but be sure that you want me to spit that fire, because when I spit it, you will have no excuse.
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My bad, I misunderstood the post. I thought he meant a Christian artist that is just singing about love and kindness and doesn't really mention God specifically, but only in undertones (Third Day's last album, for example. It's all "I believe in love..." etc.).
You're right, sin is sin, regardless of how you look at it. I should have read closer.
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Before you respond, think about this. God knows your heart and he knows if your worship and praise is false. You have to give god a sincere worship for it to be acceptable to him. You can not love your sin and say you love God. That is why I said there is no difference.
Matthew 15:8 speaks of the prophecy of Esaius in which men gave god lip service but read and find out where their hearts were?
Vain worship is no different than satan worship. Even if you play to stroke your own ego, you are doing it out of pride. Pride is sin. Sin seperates man from God. God does not get the glory out of vain worship. If you do not know God, your fake worship stinks to him.
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Saved musicians have it hard. If they play secular gigs to provide money for there family, "Church Folk" say "They shouldn't be doing that". If they then play full time for there church and get paid "Church Fok" say "They shouldn't be getting paid". Its a no win situation.
It seems like people do not realize that we all have secular jobs.
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That was my exact point. For that matter I know of alot of Pastors that have to hold a Full Time "Secular" Job just to make ends meat. The sad fact is in most churches only 10% of the congregation are faithful in Tything. So the small church running 200 or less strugles to grow. I know that was a bit off topic but related. Are these musicians playing secular music for pay "TYTHING" of thier increase?
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I can understand the different points of view posted. Like I have said many times on here, I am not really a gospel player. I am an industry professional. Am I famous, no, and I don't care, I make the money. The money and the attention does not make me. I just felt the need to share with you guys the fact that I know many gospel artist who have similar lifestyles to people who do not profess to know God. I know from being on the road with guys who do not have a relationship with God. I see it year in and year out. I do not play with Christian artist very often, but the gigs I play do not promote wild sex and negative behavior. I pass on some gigs that promote a lifestyle that I agree with. At the same time, some of my gigs do not encourage relationship with God. Some of my gigs are just good entertainment.
The main point I wanted to make was that the heart of a corrupt man singing or playing gospel music, is just as bad to partake of as music from satan worshipers. We may not want to recieve that, but it is true. There is a thin line between sincere worship and praise, and witchcraft. I know that is deep, but think about it.
Most people mask there witchcraft behind the pulpit and the songs that they claim to be ministering through.
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I understand your point now.... is a lose lose situation as someone said before. But if what you say is right in some cases.... i dont know the relationship others have with god so i wouldn't know if there worship is real or fake... But i know that im worshiping the lord and my worship isn't fake.... i give god the glory when i play and if i was playing for marilyn manson i couldnt be giving god the glory.... if i was playing for a fake gospel musician then thats between him and god.... if i know how they are then ok but like really you dont know who you are playing for and what you are promoting when you play........ So i guess that brings me to this does that make secular music ok for us to play........ if we dont know what we are putting into peoples life.... Music has spirits and we could be helping to put the wrong spirit into an individuals life....
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I dont normally get into these conversations, but it just depends on the GIG. And besides, lotsa times, churches will shortchange musicians and take us for granted. So we just have to use the gift to our advantage. Dont go out and play for people that are talking about flat out sex, drugs and violence. But if its a nice r and b gig, or neo-soul, or jazz, go for it
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Hmmm...
I don't depend on music to live. I guess everybody is in a different situation, and we all have to make tough decisions sometimes. Sometimes the flesh is really, really tough to deal with.
I know this... That the only requirement for entering the Kingdom of Heaven, is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ!
Now that's to enter... ... just how close you want to get to the throne, ... now that requires living Holy.
It's really hard to live Holy, when satan keeps comin' at you, and diggin' ditches for you.
We gotta make sure we stay in constant prayer and fasting. As long as we make sure that God is leading us, then if He leads us in, he'll lead us out, and on to higher heights in Him.
He has a plan for us!
God bless,
Eggs
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It didn't vote because it is according who the person is. Now i feel that if you are a person who can get caught up easy then no but sometimes you should because you may be able to get the artist who you are playing for saved, delivered and set free.
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What all of you guys are saying is true. I just feel like reading the scripture and praying to our God is the only way you'll get your answers.