LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => General Music Hangout => Topic started by: 4hisglory on December 19, 2005, 01:44:36 PM
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When I first started playing this year, I would learn a song, then two weeks later, I couldn't remember how to play the song. After about two motnhs of this, I realized that I was waisting alot of time going through this process over and over. Thats when I started to analyse the songs I was playing.
I would analyse the song putting the scale degrees beside the chords. This way, it was easy to learn, and at the same time, I could then go to the keyboard and work it out in any key I wanted to.
Lets look at T-block version of 'Now Behold the Lamb' in the key of Bb.
This is what I would do
D / Bb-C-D-F Now be-.............1
Eb / G-Bb-C-F hold the...........4
F / G-A-C-F Lamb.................5
/ F-F (octave higher)
/ Bb, A the
D / C-F-Bb Precious..............1
Eb / G-C-F Lamb of...............4
F / A-C-F God....................5
/ F-F (octave higher)...................5
D / C-D-F-Bb born into...........1
Eb / G-Bb-C-F sin that I.........4
F / A-C-F may....................5
F# / A-C-D live a-
G / G-Bb-D gain, the............6
C / Bb-Eb-G Precious............2
F, C, F / Bb-Eb-F Lamb of.......5
Bb / Bb-D-F God.................1
(repeat many times)
This way, when I went to the keyboard, I could play the chords I am familiar with, which made it easier for me to remember. After a while of doing this, you will see that alot of gospel songs have the same pattern and you will begin to hear them.
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D / Bb-C-D-F Now be-.............1
4hisglory, that is actually a 3 not a 1. It is a 1 chord, but the 3 in the bass makes the whole chord a 3. I know what u saying though. Good job!!!
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4hisglory, that general process is exactly what I do. I’ll go even further to say that I never write down actual chords like Cmaj7, etc. I write down just the number on top of the lyric where the chord change occurs. Depending on how confident I am with the song, I’ll alter or substitute the chord on the fly. You’re right, with that method, transposing to different keys is a snap. Well, not yet a snap for me, but mastering this technique will allow me to transpose to any key like butter baby!!!
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playhear wrote:
I’ll go even further to say that I never write down actual chords like Cmaj7, etc. I write down just the number on top of the lyric where the chord change occurs. Depending on how confident I am with the song, I’ll alter or substitute the chord on the fly.
Me too. Honestly, I could care less whether I am playing a C7 or a G13 or a D7 (#9/b5). All I know is I am playing a 1 or a 4 or a 7. But, I can analyze it if I want to. Play now, analyze later!!!
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Exactly!!! I am the exact same way. As my chord vocabulary grows, I will be able to use more chords, but until then, I don't want to waiste time figuring stuff out, I just want to play the 1 chord, 4 chord, etc.... that I know.
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Here’s another thing I do. Sometimes I have to leave out intermediate melody notes out of necessity when playing in a shaky key. I’ll just play the melody note at the instant of the chord change only. (If a confident vocalist is there, the melody may be left out completely.) For many songs, if I first play the melody completely in my confident key, then transpose to a shaky key, the listener’s brain will fill in the gaps and barely notice the missing melody notes. Do you guys do this? Or am I just being lazy?
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Here’s another thing I do. Sometimes I have to leave out intermediate melody notes out of necessity when playing in a shaky key. I’ll just play the melody note at the instant of the chord change only. (If a confident vocalist is there, the melody may be left out completely.) For many songs, if I first play the melody completely in my confident key, then transpose to a shaky key, the listener’s brain will fill in the gaps and barely notice the missing melody notes. Do you guys do this? Or am I just being lazy?
I think u r right. When you have a singer u only need to back them up with the music because they r the melody so I do not think it is lazy but allows to make a fuller sounding arrangement by breaking up the chords and using runs and fill ins and turnarounds.
On the other hand when playing for a congragation or a solo then I feel the melody needs to be kept intact.
I guess it is really up to the individual.
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Playhear, we approach songs in much of the same way. :)
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D / Bb-C-D-F Now be-.............1
4hisglory, that is actually a 3 not a 1. It is a 1 chord, but the 3 in the bass makes the whole chord a 3. I know what u saying though. Good job!!!
T-block,
I usually think about these type situations as a one chord with a 3 in the bass so you are saying u think of it purely as a 3 chord??? I guess that would be a Dm#5
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I don't really think of it as a 3 chord per say, just as a 3 cuz there is a 3 in the bass. To call it a 1 chord or a 3 chord by itself, in my opinion, would both be incorrect. You should say a 1 chord with a 3 in the bass. But, I understood perfectly what u meant, just want to eliminate confusion for the beginners who just learning this stuff.
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i've actually found my self doing the same thing... especially with hymns... i have what is called "fake" music sheets were they just put the chord above the changes like "F/Cmaj" stuff like that.. i find that a lot easier then trying to read the actually note by note on regular sheet music.. i still want to be able to read music.. i just find it easier and like you said 4Hisglory the more my chord vocabulary increases the eaiser it is for me to do the substiutions. so instead of just playing the Cmaj i would play a Cadd9<--- i like using the add9 it makes it sound pretty gives it some colour...
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Question:
Is:
F# / A-C-D live a-
really a Dmaj6 serving as a dominant to:
G / G-Bb-D gain, the............6 :?:
I know it's just a half step passing chord, but I having trouble placing
the 'D' at the top that way! :D
God bless,
Eggs
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Sorry, I meant D7!
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Sorry, I meant D7!
I'm going to go out on a limb and say, "Yes"
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Yes, F# / A-C-D is a D7 chord with the 3rd in the bass. And yes it is functioning as a dominant for the G minor chord, cuz that is what the D7 chord is, a dominant 7th chord.
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So T-block or 4hisglory, for us beginners who are learning, can you rewrite what was posted because after reading this ( I am like you'll, I like to have the #'s over the words so I can know where I am going instead of CMaj7add5b) I am kinda confused. So if that has been corrected, can we get the beginning of this post written out again. Thanks in advance.
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Hhhmmm.....I'm not sure what you are asking because the chords were written out note for note.
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The number on the chords. I.e. he said that
I don't really think of it as a 3 chord per say, just as a 3 cuz there is a 3 in the bass. To call it a 1 chord or a 3 chord by itself, in my opinion, would both be incorrect. You should say a 1 chord with a 3 in the bass. But, I understood perfectly what u meant, just want to eliminate confusion for the beginners who just learning this stuff.
So if this is true, can you post this again? Sorry about the confusion. Thanks for the reply though.
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I am sorry again but I do not know what you want posted again?? Are you talking about the chords in this thread?? or something else??
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I got this one 4hisglory:
The Original Post
D / Bb-C-D-F Now be-.............1
Eb / G-Bb-C-F hold the...........4
F / G-A-C-F Lamb.................5
/ F-F (octave higher)
/ Bb, A the
D / C-F-Bb Precious..............1
Eb / G-C-F Lamb of...............4
F / A-C-F God....................5
/ F-F (octave higher)...................5
D / C-D-F-Bb born into...........1
Eb / G-Bb-C-F sin that I.........4
F / A-C-F may....................5
F# / A-C-D live a-
G / G-Bb-D gain, the............6
C / Bb-Eb-G Precious............2
F, C, F / Bb-Eb-F Lamb of.......5
Bb / Bb-D-F God.................1
(repeat many times)
I don't really think of it as a 3 chord per say, just as a 3 cuz there is a 3 in the bass. To call it a 1 chord or a 3 chord by itself, in my opinion, would both be incorrect. You should say a 1 chord with a 3 in the bass. But, I understood perfectly what u meant, just want to eliminate confusion for the beginners who just learning this stuff.
So if this is true, can you post this again? Sorry about the confusion. Thanks for the reply though.
Revised Post to fit statement above
D / Bb-C-D-F Now be-.............3 *1 chord w/3 in the bass
Eb / G-Bb-C-F hold the...........4
F / G-A-C-F Lamb.................5
/ F-F (octave higher)
/ Bb, A the
D / C-F-Bb Precious..............3 *1 chord w/3 in the bass
Eb / G-C-F Lamb of...............4
F / A-C-F God....................5
/ F-F (octave higher)...................5
D / C-D-F-Bb born into...........3 *1 chord w/3 in the bass
Eb / G-Bb-C-F sin that I.........4
F / A-C-F may....................5
F# / A-C-D live a-
G / G-Bb-D gain, the............6
C / Bb-Eb-G Precious............2
F, C, F / Bb-Eb-F Lamb of.......5
Bb / Bb-D-F God.................1
(repeat many times)
Is that better nextlevelmusic?
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All I can say is yall tough. One day I'll understand theory like you all. Right now, I just aint got it! :'( :) But I'm encouraged!
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Maybe I can help....
I asked about the D7 chord just to get some assurance on how I was thinking about theory.
But to those who are beginning the theory, and not used to it... what helped me, was to see
the numbers (i.e 7-3-6-2-5-1) as an easier way to think on your feet, and remember songs, which
is what the original topic of this thread was about.
In other words, when you play, it's easier to remember that "E" is the "3" of C major, and that the
bass of the song move to the "3", no matter what you might be playing in that right hand, which
could very well just be an inverted chord.
I hope this helps you understand the UTILITY of the numbered scale degrees a little better. The circle
of fifth exercises that T-Block has given need to be practiced many times, so that you can do it almost
without thinking... like riding a bike.
I'm not there yet, but I'm working at it.
I hope this helps you out.
God bless,
Eggs
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thanx eggs. Another question for whomever...I have been introduced to the 7-3-6-2-5-1, but i really don't fully understand it...i sort of have the 2-5-1 down, but i know i don't have it like i should...help plz :)
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If you need help with 7-3-6-2-5-1, it's in the Practice Room. Here is a link: http://forums.learngospelmusic.com/index.php/topic,18903.0.html
Also, I got all my posts on progressions in the Practice Room and on another site u can check out: www.musicianslearningcenter.com/music
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I'm probably going to throw a monkey wrench into the mix because I look at that chord 2 ways.
It could be a D7, but typically the 3 chord is a minor ( now you can make it major if it fits within the song but it wouldn't sound as nice if you played it with the D in the bass vs the F#.... at least not to me). I would look at it as an F# diminished chord. And most of us know that diminished chords want to resolve to the chord ( major or minor) a half step away. When you use them like that ( at least I do) it gives you a nice "outside the key signature", type of dissonance and then returns right back into the key signature.
truth be told, I don't always view them that way, but that how I hear it in this piece.
thats just me though. and my tastes are a little different.
jlewis
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I'm probably going to throw a monkey wrench into the mix because I look at that chord 2 ways.
It could be a D7, but typically the 3 chord is a minor ( now you can make it major if it fits within the song but it wouldn't sound as nice if you played it with the D in the bass vs the F#.... at least not to me). I would look at it as an F# diminished chord. And most of us know that diminished chords want to resolve to the chord ( major or minor) a half step away. When you use them like that ( at least I do) it gives you a nice "outside the key signature", type of dissonance and then returns right back into the key signature.
truth be told, I don't always view them that way, but that how I hear it in this piece.
thats just me though. and my tastes are a little different.
jlewis
There is that kinda feel to it, but I've read in my handy dandy theory book that you can add the 6th to a diminished chord and nothing else. If you add anything else to a diminshed chord, it changes the chord completely.
That said, it really does look like a D7 from here.
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F / A-C-F may....................5
F# / A-C-D live a-
G / G-Bb-D gain, the............6
I'm probably going to throw a monkey wrench into the mix because I look at that chord 2 ways.
It could be a D7, but typically the 3 chord is a minor ( now you can make it major if it fits within the song but it wouldn't sound as nice if you played it with the D in the bass vs the F#.... at least not to me). I would look at it as an F# diminished chord. And most of us know that diminished chords want to resolve to the chord ( major or minor) a half step away. When you use them like that ( at least I do) it gives you a nice "outside the key signature", type of dissonance and then returns right back into the key signature.
truth be told, I don't always view them that way, but that how I hear it in this piece.
thats just me though. and my tastes are a little different.
jlewis
There is no "it could be" about it, it is a D7 chord. When you want analyze a chord, take all the notes then stack them in 3rds. So, let's take the chord F# / A-C-D, and rearrange it by stacking it in 3rds: D-F#-A-C There is no denying that this chord is a D dominant 7th chord. The reason why the F# is in the bass is because that's how it is on the CD.
If you want to play an F# diminished chord, you would have to have F#-A-C-Eb, and by looking at the original chord, there is no Eb, so it can't be called a diminished chord of any kind, although playing that chord would also sound good. And it does resolve to the G minor chord next, which is a 1/2 step away.
You are correct that the 3 chord is usuall minor, but once you make it major, it becomes a secondary dominant chord, which wants to resolve to 6. And as you can see in the example, it does go to 6. And it will sound nice with the D or the F# in the bass, all depends on what sound you want. So, really you have a 3-6 progression right there disguised as a 5-#5-6 progression.