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Gospel Instruments => Bass Guitar => Topic started by: cogicguy on September 21, 2006, 10:32:11 PM

Title: Help in key of E flat
Post by: cogicguy on September 21, 2006, 10:32:11 PM
Most of the praise and worship songs why church sings is in the key of E flat. Now I know people will tell me to go with the major scale, and minor and this and that. But that all sounds chinese to me. I need a real break down. Than some others will say I'm trying to apply theory. But whatever I'm trying to do pls help me do it somebody.

P.S the way my mind works, if someone tells me to use a major scale I would hit these different notes(Eb,F, G, Ab,Bb,C,D,D#) but how would I play this scale while a song is playing. And can someone break down the other scales that most gospel songs use. I dont need to know wat they are I need a break down of what they are(as far as what notes are played in those scaes, keep in mind E flat)
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 22, 2006, 10:35:58 AM
It takes experience to play a song you don't know. If you asked for a lead sheet, chord chart or sheet music. Would you get something from them? If you don't have this experience a piece of paper can get you through anything. I'm sure I just did not help you, so I'll stop my post right here.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: Bullitt on September 22, 2006, 10:50:20 AM
I'm not sure how much this will help but I think you're actually making things more difficult in your own mind.  Remember that playing bass is all about the pattern (progression).

As far as a typical bass player is concerened, playing a song in Eb is the same as playing it in Ab.  The only difference is which fret you start on (the root).

When people tell you to use scales (major, minor, etc) it's not meant that you should go through an entire song playing major scale after major scale from root to octave.  What they mean us to use your knowlege of the scale to add more flavor (extra notes) to the progression.  Let's say a song progression is a 1, 4, 5 in Eb.  This means that your root note (the 1) is an Eb, the 4 is Ab, and 5 is Bb. Thus the progression is Eb--Ab--Bb.

Since playing the same 3 notes over and over would get boring (to play and listen to) I could add a personal touch to the progression by drawing from my knowledge of the major scale and play something like Eb--Ab--Db--Eb (octave)--Bb.  Notice that the two extra notes that I added (Db and the higher Eb) would also "fit" into the music since they are a part of the major scale.

Here's where things could get a little awkward since I personally look at this in 2 different ways.

1) You could look at the Db and octave Eb as being the flat 7th and 8th respectively for the Eb major scale

or

2) You could see Db and octave Eb as the 4th and 5th respectively for the Ab major scale.

That's just something to get your mind moving in the right direction and hopefully I didn't confuse you.  Basically here's what I did.  I played the same Eb root note, then when I went to the second note of my progression, Ab. Next I played an Db and Eb as "filler" notes before playing the last note of my progression (Bb).


Let me know if this helped.  If it is still confusing, feel free to ask and I'll try explaing again or maybe others could chime in with their thoughts!


God Bless,
-J

Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: cogicguy on September 22, 2006, 10:44:30 PM
No this isnt confusing, this is what I was tryin to ask. And you also cleared up something else that had me confuse and that was when people would say 1-4-5, now I kinda see what they meant. And you are 100% about me making things more difficult than what it is.  My brain always tend to do that, but when I finally unscramble things, it takes me to another level. Because when people would say I'm in the key of E flat I would just play around with the major scale but just in that key. And I would say this cant be right!!!!
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 23, 2006, 05:43:32 AM
Every song has a chord progression. That is more important to follow then the scale. A song in Eb would have a ahhh some kinda Ab chord, if that is what the keyboard is playing and hit play Eb, G, Bb that may not sound great. Trust me this is something you will get over time.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: cogicguy on September 24, 2006, 09:40:33 AM
Is these progression something you have to learn or something you will feel. As I stated to you before, I cant wait to play whats going on in my heart and in my head
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 24, 2006, 07:36:11 PM
Is these progression something you have to learn or something you will feel. As I stated to you before, I cant wait to play whats going on in my heart and in my head


Both, you will feel/hear them over time and you can learn them. Learning them is a lil tricky. G to C to D which is key of G is a pretty standard progession but not all songs are like that. Our church is big on chord charts and lead sheets so at least we always know the progressions.

Whatever it is you want, keep praying about it and tring and one day it will happen. Today was the first day I was able to do some fill-ins. I felt like I was a real bass player today. My memory was on point, I looked at the chord chart before the song started and didn't have to look at it for the rest of the song.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: cogicguy on September 25, 2006, 10:12:57 AM
Thats what i'm talking about!!!! I cant wait to feel like a real bass player, people think I'm ok, but thats just because I practice a song and know how to play that song. How long have  been playing Mike
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 25, 2006, 10:16:51 AM
The past Sept. 13th was my exact 3 year anniversary of my first and only bass lesson.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: Cherri on September 25, 2006, 11:30:04 AM
The past Sept. 13th was my exact 3 year anniversary of my first and only bass lesson.

Congrats! Continue excellence Mike...
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: Torch7 on September 25, 2006, 11:36:42 AM
MikeGee,

At what point did stuff start to really click?  I have been playing a year and a half, and feel like stuff is slowly beginning to make sense.

I'm gonna sit down with a friend of mine, real soon, and he is gonna pass all the wisdom he has recieved from his homeboy who is an absolute beast on the bass.

Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 25, 2006, 04:41:21 PM
MikeGee,

At what point did stuff start to really click?  I have been playing a year and a half, and feel like stuff is slowly beginning to make sense.

I'm gonna sit down with a friend of mine, real soon, and he is gonna pass all the wisdom he has recieved from his homeboy who is an absolute beast on the bass.




Things were clicking about 8 to 9 months after I started playing for my church which was about 2.5 years into this thing called bass. which was 6 months ago or so.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: cogicguy on September 26, 2006, 09:06:09 PM
What makes it difficult for me, is we have no organ or keyboard player. Its just me and the drummer!!! So its so much pressure on me every sunday, with intro and all. Its like all eyes on me, I cant get chill in the cut and hold down a bass line. I get so frustrated, that I feel like going to another church where there is a keyboard player. But my dad is the Pastor, so you know I cant play Pops like that
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 27, 2006, 05:55:01 AM
What makes it difficult for me, is we have no organ or keyboard player. Its just me and the drummer!!! So its so much pressure on me every sunday, with intro and all. Its like all eyes on me, I cant get chill in the cut and hold down a bass line. I get so frustrated, that I feel like going to another church where there is a keyboard player. But my dad is the Pastor, so you know I cant play Pops like that


Well, someone needs to find a key play of guitar player.

Now I understand. You need more help then I can give. You are in a lil pickle. I could imagine how tough that is.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: Godsbassman on September 27, 2006, 07:17:31 AM
What makes it difficult for me, is we have no organ or keyboard player. Its just me and the drummer!!! So its so much pressure on me every sunday, with intro and all. Its like all eyes on me, I cant get chill in the cut and hold down a bass line. I get so frustrated, that I feel like going to another church where there is a keyboard player. But my dad is the Pastor, so you know I cant play Pops like that
I tell you what to do,after the lord call me back to play again it was me and drummer only. You have to play do more fillins also you can do this and keep in the pocket. Just listen, if the song got parts for chorus play alone with the chorus and use chromatics run scales to fillins. Play some 5,4,3 and 3,4,5 as fillins.
 
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MoeBass6 on September 28, 2006, 01:54:51 PM
That,s also my situation, just myself and a drummer. She is learning and myself as well so it can be an experience. It is alot of pressure because there is no room for error becuase you stand out so much.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 28, 2006, 03:21:29 PM
I do in fact see your problem, I would find this very stressful let alone kinda hard. On the other side you don't have a keyboard player/guitarist to tell you to hold back you are free to play as you please. If you stick with this and you don't gain another player I see you being a bad bassist.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: cogicguy on September 30, 2006, 02:17:02 AM
Mikegee, that other side sounds great. But as life has it, its hard to see that great reward when you are in that struggling/crawling mode
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 30, 2006, 08:51:09 AM
LOL yea, I'm the kinda guy there is always a bright side of most situations. I usta feel the same way struggling and crawling.... BAD. Then I said forget it each and everytime I will have fun no matter what. Now I'm learning more.


I member I was playing pool about a month ago I was trying to mack each and every shot and I was geting madder and madder. I made nothing. Then I played 2 Wednesdays ago. I was just there to have fun, shared a good conversation with the other guy. I made every shot and cleared the table in about a min.

Moral of the storey have fun and the learning will fallow and it'll make most situation bearable.
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: MikeGee on September 30, 2006, 08:31:02 PM
Congrats! Continue excellence Mike...


Thanks
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: Godsbassman on September 30, 2006, 11:32:49 PM
Most of the praise and worship songs why church sings is in the key of E flat. Now I know people will tell me to go with the major scale, and minor and this and that. But that all sounds chinese to me. I need a real break down. Than some others will say I'm trying to apply theory. But whatever I'm trying to do pls help me do it somebody.

P.S the way my mind works, if someone tells me to use a major scale I would hit these different notes(Eb,F, G, Ab,Bb,C,D,D#) but how would I play this scale while a song is playing. And can someone break down the other scales that most gospel songs use. I dont need to know wat they are I need a break down of what they are(as far as what notes are played in those scaes, keep in mind E flat)
This is a Blessing you can grow and try things,also remember this. A bass player can not hit the wrong note if you do just use Chromatics. That's another way to use Chromatic when you're lost and fillers not just to run scales with ;)
Title: Re: Help in key of E flat
Post by: cogicguy on October 08, 2006, 11:46:06 PM
So with major and minor scales, plus using chromatics...a persion should be ok in a certain key