LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Gospel Instruments => Bass Guitar => Topic started by: jeremyr on January 24, 2008, 11:02:26 AM
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So I won't take the other MTD thread of course I'll make my statements here.
First. MTDs are great basses and awesome build and well wroth the praise.
Now with that being said for "MY PERSONAL TONE/SOUND" the mtd just doesn't fit the bill.
They sound a bit to Hi-Fi to me. I don't think that's a eq thing, I think that's just the MTD sound, because everyone I know or have seen play one has that kind of nasally sound
I like a tone that has a PHAT DEEP bottom and crystal clear Highs (here's the catch) all at the same time (which is why I'm a huge CallowHill Fanatic).
I don't like mids and usually cut them or leave them flat. Maybe low mids in the 250Hz range, but nothing higher.
The MTDs cut through the mix like a butter knife through melted butter (ROFL), but the tone that you get just doesn't do anything for me. Call be crazy, but I want you to FEEL me play, not just hear me.
So with that being said MTDs just don't have what it takes to reproduce the tone that I like for my personal sound (it might be the barts...i dunno), but then again I've never heard of a MTD with a pickup swap.
now what might be interesting is if you through in a sadowsky preamp and some nordy pickups in a mtd. I think then that tone that I love will come through, but with that bart system it just doesn't cut it for me.
You can now proceed to beat me with the flame bat...lol
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So I won't take the other MTD thread of course I'll make my statements here.
First. MTDs are great basses and awesome build and well wroth the praise.
Now with that being said for "MY PERSONAL TONE/SOUND" the mtd just doesn't fit the bill.
They sound a bit to Hi-Fi to me. I don't think that's a eq thing, I think that's just the MTD sound, because everyone I know or have seen play one has that kind of nasally sound
I like a tone that has a PHAT DEEP bottom and crystal clear Highs (here's the catch) all at the same time (which is why I'm a huge CallowHill Fanatic).
I don't like mids and usually cut them or leave them flat. Maybe low mids in the 250Hz range, but nothing higher.
The MTDs cut through the mix like a butter knife through melted butter (ROFL), but the tone that you get just doesn't do anything for me. Call be crazy, but I want you to FEEL me play, not just hear me.
So with that being said MTDs just don't have what it takes to reproduce the tone that I like for my personal sound (it might be the barts...i dunno), but then again I've never heard of a MTD with a pickup swap.
now what might be interesting is if you through in a sadowsky preamp and some nordy pickups in a mtd. I think then that tone that I love will come through, but with that bart system it just doesn't cut it for me.
You can now proceed to beat me with the flame bat...lol
I understand where you are coming from. I'm very partial to Eden amps and cabs. That's the sound that I like. As you know, I always advocate for them. As far as basses, I haven't quite nailed it down to a particular luthier. I like the MTD sound, but I also like the Fender Jazz sound, Ken Smith sound and others.
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Thanks for the analysis Jeremyr.
Here is a recent inteview, I did with Tim, from Callowhill... interesting read.
http://www.gospelbasslines.com/interviews/?interview=4
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yeah Tims a great guy.
It just amazes me how his basses sound.
I think that the J(unk) 5 is capable of producing the dreaded "BROWN NOTE"..HAHAHAHHAA
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yeah Tims a great guy.
It just amazes me how his basses sound.
I think that the J(unk) 5 is capable of producing the dreaded "BROWN NOTE"..HAHAHAHHAA
Yesir.... TIM is cooler than a fan... (okay maybe a fan in texas), Your from Chi-town... You know Cold... lol.
Anyhow... that J(unk) 5 is a beauty... I would love to hear what one sounds like..
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hUm is it possible the strings causes that soud? I have a Scheter elite 5, and I was looking to change the strings thinking that would give me that Deep low sound. Some times I feel i'm not getting the sound i'm looking for. now on the other hand the sound I get from my Lakland 52-02 and my Marcus Miller 4 the sound it sweet. So does the strings have a impact on the sound?
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Strings can effect the sound...
I have also heard that EMG pickups that come on the schecters are just bright sounding.
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Yeah I heard that as well. I am new to bass playing any suggestion you can make that would allow me to get a deeper sound?
Thanks
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Strings can effect the sound...
I have also heard that EMG pickups that come on the schecters are just bright sounding.
strings definately affect the sound, but The 2 biggest things are #1 electronics and #2 woods
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Strings can effect the sound...
I have also heard that EMG pickups that come on the schecters are just bright sounding.
i wouldn't necesarily say that they're bright (at least not on the one that I had), but I'd say that the're more geard towards a crowd that will use heavy effects (mainly rock settings).
They are VERY nice basses though ,but after tasting 19mm bridge spacing I'm afraid i'll NEVER go bak to 16 or 17mm
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knot sure I understand are you referring to the Gage on the strings 19MM?
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knot sure I understand are you referring to the Gage on the strings 19MM?
how much space is inbetween the center of one string to the center of the next.
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So I won't take the other MTD thread of course I'll make my statements here.
First. MTDs are great basses and awesome build and well wroth the praise.
Now with that being said for "MY PERSONAL TONE/SOUND" the mtd just doesn't fit the bill.
They sound a bit to Hi-Fi to me. I don't think that's a eq thing, I think that's just the MTD sound, because everyone I know or have seen play one has that kind of nasally sound
I like a tone that has a PHAT DEEP bottom and crystal clear Highs (here's the catch) all at the same time (which is why I'm a huge CallowHill Fanatic).
I don't like mids and usually cut them or leave them flat. Maybe low mids in the 250Hz range, but nothing higher.
The MTDs cut through the mix like a butter knife through melted butter (ROFL), but the tone that you get just doesn't do anything for me. Call be crazy, but I want you to FEEL me play, not just hear me.
So with that being said MTDs just don't have what it takes to reproduce the tone that I like for my personal sound (it might be the barts...i dunno), but then again I've never heard of a MTD with a pickup swap.
now what might be interesting is if you through in a sadowsky preamp and some nordy pickups in a mtd. I think then that tone that I love will come through, but with that bart system it just doesn't cut it for me.
You can now proceed to beat me with the flame bat...lol
Well, I had 2 535/635 and figured they were better pieces of furniture than basses....so I don't miss them not one iota,and btw I had Nordstrands pups in both of them it and they still were thin sounding,and I also guess that I really didn't ( and still don't ) care for 35 inch scale basses
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Give me a USA Fender Jazz any day!
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Well, I had 2 535/635 and figured they were better pieces of furniture than basses....so I don't miss them not one iota,and btw I had Nordstrands pups in both of them it and they still were thin sounding,and I also guess that I really didn't ( and still don't ) care for 35 inch scale basses
VERY INTERESTING!
Which pre-amp did you have installed while you had the Nordy's in there?
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ur funny jeremy. did think that U were gonna start the thread.
personally i could care less about an MTD, unless the new ones start coming with several months rent checks signed my Michael Tobais himself, then i may consider. I'd rather the landlord come knockin on my door because im boomin the bass too loud, rather than because i owe rent because i bought the bass thats boomin too loud. But if u got it, to each his own.
Many of us, well i'll speak for myself, wont go on tour, play in huge concerts, be a well known recording bassist, or what have you. I just play for our local church and happy doing so for the Lord, and even though i could drop cash on one, that would just be overkill for a group of people who sometimes still ask me if thats an "electric guitar or a bass". LOL. i would rather be one of those players good enough to make a $100 bass sound good, and if i could do that then why do i need to buy a $4000 one?
reminds me of a car. if i just need one to get where i need to go and back, why should i buy a mercedes for all the features they hype in the commercials, when all i need is a cool and stylish honda or toyota?
just like that last MTD vs Smith forum topic, it went on for what seemed like forever. i was like, it aint that serious. especially if most of the people goin the hardest about it dont even have one. once again i could care less. just ranting here. not denying the craftsmanship and quality, but its just not my cup of tea. and all of them dont even look all that hot anyway. to me some of them look like an eyesore, so u just playin it for the name. (maybe i should get one of them then. i'll hate lookin at it so much, i'll learn to play without lookin at my hands. LOL)
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ur funny jeremy. did think that U were gonna start the thread.
personally i could care less about an MTD, unless the new ones start coming with several months rent checks signed my Michael Tobais himself, then i may consider. I'd rather the landlord come knockin on my door because im boomin the bass too loud, rather than because i owe rent because i bought the bass thats boomin too loud. But if u got it, to each his own.
Many of us, well i'll speak for myself, wont go on tour, play in huge concerts, be a well known recording bassist, or what have you. I just play for our local church and happy doing so for the Lord, and even though i could drop cash on one, that would just be overkill for a group of people who sometimes still ask me if thats an "electric guitar or a bass". LOL. i would rather be one of those players good enough to make a $100 bass sound good, and if i could do that then why do i need to buy a $4000 one?
reminds me of a car. if i just need one to get where i need to go and back, why should i buy a mercedes for all the features they hype in the commercials, when all i need is a cool and stylish honda or toyota?
just like that last MTD vs Smith forum topic, it went on for what seemed like forever. i was like, it aint that serious. especially if most of the people goin the hardest about it dont even have one. once again i could care less. just ranting here. not denying the craftsmanship and quality, but its just not my cup of tea. and all of them dont even look all that hot anyway. to me some of them look like an eyesore, so u just playin it for the name. (maybe i should get one of them then. i'll hate lookin at it so much, i'll learn to play without lookin at my hands. LOL)
I don't think I can agree with you on everything.
Mainly because cheap poor quality electronics found a a $100 bass will NEVER sound like quality electronics...Even if the same awesome bass players plays both of them on after the other.
It's all about if you're comfortable with the instrument that YOU ARE playing (not anyone else) and i've never been able to find a $100 bass that feels right TO ME (and i'm cheap and like to not spend more money then I need to) with the exception of ONE fender squire jazz I played that was amazing to the touch.
None of the other fender squires have ever felt as good as that one.
But hey, if you can get the sound and feel from a $100 bass that fits you then I guess you hit the jackpot...ROFL
What I've found with higher end instruments is that you get a better build, it's built to your specs, and you get quailty materials that won't dent if the bass is dropped 2" from the floor.
There definitely is a difference and one that I feel the extra money easily justify.
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Well, I had 2 535/635 and figured they were better pieces of furniture than basses....so I don't miss them not one iota,and btw I had Nordstrands pups in both of them it and they still were thin sounding,and I also guess that I really didn't ( and still don't ) care for 35 inch scale basses
What are you playing now, Hands5?
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i was kinda exaggerating with the $100 dollar price tag. for me i love my schecter. i like the small string spacing. it feels so comfortable to me. some of the higher end basses tend to have those wider neck and it feels sooo uncomfortable. i hated fenders for a bit because the necks felt huge, but i got used to it once i bought one from my cousin as a backup, but the difference is night and day. its really all about the feel anyway, because what good is a souped up bass with the name, high quality electronics, and killer sound, but it feels so uncomfortable to play.
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For me, MTD, Roscoe etc. all are great sounding basses, but they all have one thing in common, Bart PUPS. This tells me that even though they have exotic woods, this sound is created mainly by the BARTS. Which to me are some of the best PUPS. SO therefore, really all you need is those same PUPS on any midrange bass with decent wood. This would be a bass in the price range of 800 to 1300 dollars. MTDS 4000. Rediculous. Now the Smith, can't be imitated. It has a unique sound. That sound is HOT.
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I got to chime in on this one, ultimately each Bassists seeks his own sound according to the style he is most accustomed to playing. (Hence why so many players have more than one Axe) I've met and played MTD I even used to own a few Tobias basses, but ultimately for the sound I wanted and the style of music I play quartet gospel and of course a little bit of Hez, Byron etc I found the sound I was searching for within the realm of a Maple neck through Ken Smith BT5 elite. It's all about the sound you hear within you. For me it's Ken and David or Ken and Ampeg either or gets it done for me.
But I must admit I prefer a Bass to sound like a Bass and not a guitar I love the bottom, not taking anything away form the guys who do crazy solo's enhanced with great harmonic licks as I too love that sound, but for the most part I stay in the pocket.
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Many of us, well i'll speak for myself, wont go on tour, play in huge concerts, be a well known recording bassist, or what have you. I just play for our local church and happy doing so for the Lord, and even though i could drop cash on one, that would just be overkill for a group of people who sometimes still ask me if thats an "electric guitar or a bass". LOL. i would rather be one of those players good enough to make a $100 bass sound good, and if i could do that then why do i need to buy a $4000 one?
+1. Floaded said it perfectly.
My dream bass is the one I can afford, which at the moment is a G & L Tribute L-2500 in Natural. :D
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For me, MTD, Roscoe etc. all are great sounding basses, but they all have one thing in common, Bart PUPS. This tells me that even though they have exotic woods, this sound is created mainly by the BARTS. Which to me are some of the best PUPS. SO therefore, really all you need is those same PUPS on any midrange bass with decent wood. This would be a bass in the price range of 800 to 1300 dollars. MTDS 4000. Rediculous. Now the Smith, can't be imitated. It has a unique sound. That sound is HOT.
Keep in mind, a bart isn't always a bart. Both MTD and Roscoe use their own custom tweaked version of bart pups, if I'm not mistaken. Even beyond that, MTD and Roscoe have different sounds, and an Ibanez with barts isn't anywhere close to either one of them. So it's not just the Barts by any means.
Not saying you can't have a good sounding mid-range bass with Bart pups... but don't expect that to be the equivalent of other brands or anywhere close.
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Just curious about the idea of Barts dominating the sound for MTD and Roscoe basses. How many people can really tell?
Which of these clips is played with Bart pre / pups?
A: http://www.learngospelmusic.com/media/displayimage.php?album=422&pos=5 (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/media/displayimage.php?album=422&pos=5)
B: http://www.learngospelmusic.com/media/displayimage.php?album=422&pos=7 (http://www.learngospelmusic.com/media/displayimage.php?album=422&pos=7)
Peace,
James
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I guess my point is that the high quality of BARTs is what give MTD and Roscoe 60% of its good sound. Regarless of whether the barts are tweeaked or not.The other 40% percent is given to the woods used. But you could not put EMG's (Although I like EMG's) in a MTD or Roscoe and get that crisp sound. By the way, that Ibanez BTB, the natural wood one with the flamed maple top, and the High Quality Barts, IMO would give them MTD's a run for its money. Actually they both sound alike so you really could not tell the difference. Next time you are in Sam Ashe or Guitar Center check one out. Again, I like MTD and Roscoe. They are some great sounding Basses, However, I think most people want these basses for the name and the self esteem that comes with it. Now again, that Ken Smith ain't no Joke.
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This would be a bass in the price range of 800 to 1300 dollars. MTDS 4000. Rediculous. Now the Smith, can't be imitated. It has a unique sound. That sound is HOT.
It took me about five years to build the sound that I was hearing. I purchased a 1999 Ken Smith BMT Elete five. Best move that I ever made. The Tone! Totally awesome, talking about bottom; it will punch the kick drum right back into the drummers foot. Of course I moved away from Combo amps and went separate power rack EQ and bass Filtering. I just got a used Ibanez and installed a Bart eq system in it and with the rig that I have it sounds great also.
I can say this. The tone a bass has is greatly enhanced by a powerful rig. The more amps the better tone and punch right through the mix.
I pray one day to have an F-Bass. talking about a powerful tone right out of the box. Chk these babies out.
http://www.fbass.com/html/available.html
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Just curious about the idea of Barts dominating the sound for MTD and Roscoe basses. How many people can really tell?
Which of these clips is played with Bart pre / pups?
B: [url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/media/displayimage.php?album=422&pos=7[/url] ([url]http://www.learngospelmusic.com/media/displayimage.php?album=422&pos=7[/url])
Peace,
James
honestly it's hard to tell since you didn't play slap on version 1.
LOL A might be Barts as well
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VERY INTERESTING!
Which pre-amp did you have installed while you had the Nordy's in there?
In the 535 I had Mikes own preamp/and in the 635 I switched outr Mike's for a Dave McKing preamp ( consequently the one I have in a 96 American Deluxe Jazz bass I pickup a couple of weeks ago) and I switchd back to Mikes. I started to put a old ( early Fodera Monarch ) Hazlab in the 635, but by that time I'd figured that I really didn't care for the MTD...so there'ya go
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Once you understand how much time Mike Tobias puts into making just ONE MTD, you'd understand the price, which seems to be the real issue here. First of all, he actually takes trips to buy woods, the price of which are directly affected by things like oil prices, civil wars in African countries, (where he gets a lot of his wood from!), and other things as well. Secondly he builds them for the most part, by himself in a workshop outside his house, (sometimes a guy named Chris comes by and helps him out). He spends about a to make about three basses. The Preamp he uses is is made for his basses. Having said all that, EVERY MTD is unique, (I'm talking about 635, 535, and 435's), so every one sounds different, different wood combos, neck woods, etc. Many of his basses are made to order, so he'll make wood combination that you want. The problem with that is, MOST people dont know diddley about how different woods sound, so they end up picking something that they regret later! The best to do is tell him the tone you're looking for, he understands you, and he makes it! A lot of people ask me the wood combinations of my basses, I tell them call Mike, cuz I don't know! All I know is he knows my sound and he makes it. I understand the issue of price, but the bottom line is, a Ford don't cost as much as a BMW, it's a good car, and will get you from point A to point B, but make no mistake, it'ts NOT a BMW! MTD basses are the standard that most luthiers go by. I've had at some point in my life owned or played most brand of basses, but MTD is that best bass I've ever touched in terms of quality, versatility of sound, and customer service. Mike Tobias stands behind every bass he makes, he remembers everyone ever made, and you can call him on the phone and talk to him. I love Fenders, Smiths too, I own them, but for me it's MTD4LYFE!!!
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Once you understand how much time Mike Tobias puts into making just ONE MTD, you'd understand the price, which seems to be the real issue here. First of all, he actually takes trips to buy woods, the price of which are directly affected by things like oil prices, civil wars in African countries, (where he gets a lot of his wood from!), and other things as well. Secondly he builds them for the most part, by himself in a workshop outside his house, (sometimes a guy named Chris comes by and helps him out). He spends about a to make about three basses. The Preamp he uses is is made for his basses. Having said all that, EVERY MTD is unique, (I'm talking about 635, 535, and 435's), so every one sounds different, different wood combos, neck woods, etc. Many of his basses are made to order, so he'll make wood combination that you want. The promblem with that is, MOST people dont know diddley about how different woods sound, so they end up picking something that they regret later! The best to do is tell him the tone you're looking for, he understands you, and he makes it! A lot of people ask me the wood combinations of my basses, I tell them call Mike, cuz I don't know! All I know is he knows my sound and he makes it. I understand the issue of price, but the bottom line is, a Ford don't cost as much as a BMW, it's a good car, and will get you from point A to point B, but make no mistake, it'ts NOT a BMW! MTD basses are the standard that most luthiers go by. I've had at some point in my life owned or played most brand of basses, but MTD is that best bass I've ever touched in terms of quality, versatility of sound, and customer service. Mike Tobias stands behind every bass he makes, he remembers everyone ever made, and you can call him on the phone and talk to him. I love Fenders, Smiths too, I own them, but for me it's MTD4LYFE!!!
Well put sir and you sure do make that MTD sing..lol.
With that being said I'll be out in Cali next month, so maybe you can persuade me ;-)
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Hit me up andd lemme know when you get here, we'll hang AND I will teach you the ways of MTD!!!!
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Hit me up andd lemme know when you get here, we'll hang AND I will teach you the ways of MTD!!!!
uh oh......lol.
I think i might be sticking my foot in my mouth in a couple of weeks..haha
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Let me jump in on this one.
This is why I am glad there are so many different bass makers and companies out there because we are all different. What may not work for you may just be the deal for someone else. I remember the first time I played an MTD. My jaw hit the ground. The tone that I heard in my head was in my hands and I was never the same again. That was about three years ago. I do not own a US MTD but I am currently the owner of an MTD Z6. That was the closest I could get at this time with my current financial situation. But in that time I have come to realize that my tone is really in my hands. How I hit the strings is how I hit the strings. Sure electronics and wood type play a factor but I sound the same pretty much on every bass I play. Ever wonder why a bass you own sounds so different when someone else plays it? We all have our unique touch and that will greatly influence how our instrument sounds. Back in the day guys had to move their hand position to vary their tone. Now we rely on our preamp knobs!!!!!
My suggestion is to realize what works for you and get what works for you. I know that I prefer maple boards over rosewood both visually and sonically. All of my basses have maple/maple designs. I love the sharp attack and brightness that maple gives and I know how to move my hands and play with my blend knob if I need depth. Ash is my preferred body wood. I cannot stand Alder and have went through many basses to come to this realization. In fact I have went sold a lot of perfectly good basses because of my lack of bass knowledge. I actually traded one because I thought that something was wrong with it and I came to realize that the battery just died!!!!!
Learn more about your instrument than just where your A string is at. ;D
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What are you playing now, Hands5?
74 Jazz Bass, 97 MIM 5 String Deluxe with DiMarzio Ultra J's ( no preamp-had an Audere JZ3 in it but I like the way the bass sounds passive so I took it out ) Marcus Miller V ( that had Nordstrand JF5's in it, but I switched back to the Jason Lollars ) with the stock preamp rewired for 9vlt instead of 18 vlt,and for church Sadowsky MS5...eeehhh ( can do or do with out it )
I was checking out the Nordstrand Jazz bass, but I didn't care for the 12' inch radius nor the 20mm string spacing,and I already have a Modern sounding bass in the Sadowsky :-\
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Blacklw234 & Jeremy,
It seems you both think that both basses in the clips are Bart-equipped. You're both right. But to me they don't sound anything alike. Granted, one is fretless and I played that one fingerstyle only in the clip, but to me they sound like completely different animals.
The first time I actually played an MTD-535 was at Bass Central, and I played it A/B with a Hanewinckel that I owned at the time. It had almost the exact same Bart set up as the MTD, but the voicings of those two basses couldn't have been further apart. Both nice, but different. Likewise when I took that same Hanewinckel to the Ohio gearfest and played it, a Roscoe (not certain if that one had Barts), my Marchlewski (Barts) and a chambered MTD (Barts) back-to-back-to-back-to-back through the same amp. Four different voices. To me, the differences were in the wood and the construction (neck thru v bolt on plus chambered v non-chambered). May have been some string differences there, too. From that grouping I liked the Roscoe best, then the MTD, then the Hannie, then the Marchlewski.
Peace,
James
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Blacklw234 & Jeremy,
It seems you both think that both basses in the clips are Bart-equipped. You're both right. But to me they don't sound anything alike. Granted, one is fretless an
I think that A being fretless has a big thing to do with it sound like a differnt animal, however as you stated the woods make a big dfference.
I've learned over the eyars taht I prefer ash bodies with maple/maple necks.
I'm not accustomed to hearing a fretless bass, but they inherently have a "smoother" sound then a fretted bass.
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Once you understand how much time Mike Tobias puts into making just ONE MTD, you'd understand the price, which seems to be the real issue here. First of all, he actually takes trips to buy woods, the price of which are directly affected by things like oil prices, civil wars in African countries, (where he gets a lot of his wood from!), and other things as well. Secondly he builds them for the most part, by himself in a workshop outside his house, (sometimes a guy named Chris comes by and helps him out). He spends about a to make about three basses. The Preamp he uses is is made for his basses. Having said all that, EVERY MTD is unique, (I'm talking about 635, 535, and 435's), so every one sounds different, different wood combos, neck woods, etc. Many of his basses are made to order, so he'll make wood combination that you want. The problem with that is, MOST people dont know diddley about how different woods sound, so they end up picking something that they regret later! The best to do is tell him the tone you're looking for, he understands you, and he makes it! A lot of people ask me the wood combinations of my basses, I tell them call Mike, cuz I don't know! All I know is he knows my sound and he makes it. I understand the issue of price, but the bottom line is, a Ford don't cost as much as a BMW, it's a good car, and will get you from point A to point B, but make no mistake, it'ts NOT a BMW! MTD basses are the standard that most luthiers go by. I've had at some point in my life owned or played most brand of basses, but MTD is that best bass I've ever touched in terms of quality, versatility of sound, and customer service. Mike Tobias stands behind every bass he makes, he remembers everyone ever made, and you can call him on the phone and talk to him. I love Fenders, Smiths too, I own them, but for me it's MTD4LYFE!!!
+1 Gooch!
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I have no choice but to live with out. (cost)
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I have no choice but to live with out. (cost)
+1 I can definately live without one but, would love to have one (along with a Ken Smith and Brubaker).
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+1 I can definately live without one but, would love to have one (along with a Ken Smith and Brubaker).
i do indeed like mtd basses. I like the ones that Norm Stockton plays mostly. But if I could afford such a bass I think I would rather have a Lakland... Just personal choice.
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Actually all top line Bass guitar Makers put a lot time in their craft. Traveling for the best woods, specking out electronics string tension and so on. (Tip) Ken smith Owner of Ken Smith basses LTD, when he goes to the Middle East and Africa for his woods, he has a person come back with his material to make sure that what he picks out he gets. One of his top line Orchestra Bows go for 2-5 Grand, he’s the Strauss Varies of bass guitar making.
My opinion, my choice so far.
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Actually all top line Bass guitar Makers put a lot time in their craft. Traveling for the best woods, specking out electronics string tension and so on. (Tip)
I agree... big hitters like Mike Tobias, Keith @ Roscoe, Ken Smith.... and even up and coming luthiers like Pete Skjold (www.skjolddesign.com) and Pavel de la Fuente (www.pavelmi.com)... they all have a pride in their craft that shows in their products and support. Each instrument is unique, and some like Mike Tobias has an incredible gift of matching woods and options to the specific needs of their clients to get their perfect tone.
And to think... back in the day it was P-bass, J-bass or nothing. We are blessed to have so many fantastic options! The low end has come such a long way, and there is something out there for every bassist, even on a tighter budget.
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I agree... big hitters like Mike Tobias, Keith @ Roscoe, Ken Smith.... and even up and coming luthiers like Pete Skjold (www.skjolddesign.com) and Pavel de la Fuente (www.pavelmi.com)... they all have a pride in their craft that shows in their products and support. Each instrument is unique, and some like Mike Tobias has an incredible gift of matching woods and options to the specific needs of their clients to get their perfect tone.
And to think... back in the day it was P-bass, J-bass or nothing. We are blessed to have so many fantastic options! The low end has come such a long way, and there is something out there for every bassist, even on a tighter budget.
Yeah, it's been at least 10 years since I bought a new bass (made alot of mods to old basses though). I look now at what's available for the amount that I paid for my bass and am amazed at the quality of instruments out there.
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May be four years ago i would of prefer a Ken Smith and a David Eden Rig. but thats When i was Always out on the road giging hard playing for evrery Body. But now I Have A Family, a mortage And like floded Said. i cant see my self paying for a instrament that cost the same or more than my mortage. i just cant see it. But thats just me. i dont need a high end bass. Some pepole think a high end bass will make them sound better. but thats not true at all. one of the baddist bass player in my area plays a squier four sting jazz bass that he had fixed up. He Also had a pre gibson Tobias five.and End up Selling it. I think the yamhas TRB Seris are a best. When i Did A concert With Mrs. Norwood, I Played The TRB Six String It Sounded just as Good as any high dollar Bass thats out there.If your good enough you can make any bass sound good. thats just my take on it. Keep Thumping Ken!
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yeah Tims a great guy.
It just amazes me how his basses sound.
I think that the J(unk) 5 is capable of producing the dreaded "BROWN NOTE"..HAHAHAHHAA
I'm digging those! I gotta look into this some more for that 'one day' down the road type of thing.
Glad you found the sound you were looking for!!
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Once you understand how much time Mike Tobias puts into making just ONE MTD, you'd understand the price, which seems to be the real issue here. First of all, he actually takes trips to buy woods, the price of which are directly affected by things like oil prices, civil wars in African countries, (where he gets a lot of his wood from!), and other things as well. Secondly he builds them for the most part, by himself in a workshop outside his house, (sometimes a guy named Chris comes by and helps him out). He spends about a to make about three basses. The Preamp he uses is is made for his basses. Having said all that, EVERY MTD is unique, (I'm talking about 635, 535, and 435's), so every one sounds different, different wood combos, neck woods, etc. Many of his basses are made to order, so he'll make wood combination that you want. The problem with that is, MOST people dont know diddley about how different woods sound, so they end up picking something that they regret later! The best to do is tell him the tone you're looking for, he understands you, and he makes it! A lot of people ask me the wood combinations of my basses, I tell them call Mike, cuz I don't know! All I know is he knows my sound and he makes it. I understand the issue of price, but the bottom line is, a Ford don't cost as much as a BMW, it's a good car, and will get you from point A to point B, but make no mistake, it'ts NOT a BMW! MTD basses are the standard that most luthiers go by. I've had at some point in my life owned or played most brand of basses, but MTD is that best bass I've ever touched in terms of quality, versatility of sound, and customer service. Mike Tobias stands behind every bass he makes, he remembers everyone ever made, and you can call him on the phone and talk to him. I love Fenders, Smiths too, I own them, but for me it's MTD4LYFE!!!
Andrew,
I am so glad you replied here, you hit the nail right on the head. Mike is not only one of the best (if not the best) luthiers on the planet, but his customer service is second to none. He's returned my calls while on vacation with his wife, and got me what I needed. Someone mentioned Roscoe which I thought sounded nothing like an MTD, never got to try there customer service I had the SKB 3006 for a month and sold it to get a (you guessed it) a MTD 635/24. Love my F-Bass and George is another great luthier, but his customer service is not on the same level as Mike's, now need we talk about some of the replies in this thread? An Ibanez being equal to an MTD that may be one's opinion and yes you are entitled to your own opinion, but it's hard to compare a hand crafted precision instrument with one that is CNC'ed same for Scheter, Lakland, and Fender all of which were mentioned. Hands5 said his formerly owned a 535, and a 635 that were better pieces of furniture, he even went as far as too destroy a masterpiece (IMO of course) and put Nordstrand pickup in a MTD. Now I own a Nordy vJ5
and I think the pickups are great, but I would not pull the pickups out of my MTD's to put nordy's in it. Floaded27 said he won't go on tour, play huge concerts or be a well known recording artist, but would rather make a $100.00 bass sound good. I am the senior pastor and my touring days are far behind me, I only play with the praise team these days, but my hands and my ears both feel and hear the difference between a hand crafted MTD than something on GC wall. Andrew said he doesn't know what woods he has, but he knows what sound he hears in his head and Mike knows how to give you that sound. Now I asked Mike what the woods were that Andrew was playing on MTD4LYFE, now mind you I already had poplar/myrtle top/wenge/wenge, 535, Ash/Crouch Walnut/Ash/Maple 635/24 both had completely different sounds. Mike said the bass in the track was Tulip wood with a maple neck and rosewood board it's the one in my avatar, different sounding from the other two. If you listen to the MTD4LYFE track and Hubert Eaves IV on Erykah Badu Live you will hear the diversity of MTD, while maintaining the highest quality of craftsmanship in the world. Now maybe this is about price, yet Smith's were mentioned also, and they are pricy as well, but I can identify a Smith tone easier than a MTD but all this is just my opinion, and like the rest of you I am entitled to it. That's what makes these discussions fun.
BTW, Andrew if your still reading, when is the CD going to drop, I thought that was going to get done while Chaka was out. Hope to hear it soon. Let me know if you got something happening her in LA Baked Potato anytime soon?
Peace, Love and Jesus!
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Andrew,
I am so glad you replied here, you hit the nail right on the head. Mike is not only one of the best (if not the best) luthiers on the planet, but his customer service is second to none. He's returned my calls while on vacation with his wife, and got me what I needed. Someone mentioned Roscoe which I thought sounded nothing like an MTD, never got to try there customer service I had the SKB 3006 for a month and sold it to get a (you guessed it) a MTD 635/24. Love my F-Bass and George is another great luthier, but his customer service is not on the same level as Mike's, now need we talk about some of the replies in this thread? An Ibanez being equal to an MTD that may be one's opinion and yes you are entitled to your own opinion, but it's hard to compare a hand crafted precision instrument with one that is CNC'ed same for Scheter, Lakland, and Fender all of which were mentioned. Hands5 said his formerly owned a 535, and a 635 that were better pieces of furniture, he even went as far as too destroy a masterpiece (IMO of course) and put Nordstrand pickup in a MTD. Now I own a Nordy vJ5
and I think the pickups are great, but I would not pull the pickups out of my MTD's to put nordy's in it. Floaded27 said he won't go on tour, play huge concerts or be a well known recording artist, but would rather make a $100.00 bass sound good. I am the senior pastor and my touring days are far behind me, I only play with the praise team these days, but my hands and my ears both feel and hear the difference between a hand crafted MTD than something on GC wall. Andrew said he doesn't know what woods he has, but he knows what sound he hears in his head and Mike knows how to give you that sound. Now I asked Mike what the woods were that Andrew was playing on MTD4LYFE, now mind you I already had poplar/myrtle top/wenge/wenge, 535, Ash/Crouch Walnut/Ash/Maple 635/24 both had completely different sounds. Mike said the bass in the track was Tulip wood with a maple neck and rosewood board it's the one in my avatar, different sounding from the other two. If you listen to the MTD4LYFE track and Hubert Eaves IV on Erykah Badu Live you will hear the diversity of MTD, while maintaining the highest quality of craftsmanship in the world. Now maybe this is about price, yet Smith's were mentioned also, and they are pricy as well, but I can identify a Smith tone easier than a MTD but all this is just my opinion, and like the rest of you I am entitled to it. That's what makes these discussions fun.
BTW, Andrew if your still reading, when is the CD going to drop, I thought that was going to get done while Chaka was out. Hope to hear it soon. Let me know if you got something happening her in LA Baked Potato anytime soon?
Peace, Love and Jesus!
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and what you've mention what Gooch said is exactly why I don't own my MTD's anymore because my ears had changed,and the sound in my head ( 60-70 Jazz bass sound) was what I was hearing, not the MTD which ironically were pretty much the same basses with the same type of woods that you have, now I do every now/then will take out my preGibson Tobias ( which were the best basses Mike ever made IMO ),but the MTD and the Tobias are nothing alike.But the MTD is still no doubt a great bass,its just not my cup of tea.
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and what you've mention what Gooch said is exactly why I don't own my MTD's anymore because my ears had changed,and the sound in my head ( 60-70 Jazz bass sound) was what I was hearing, not the MTD which ironically were pretty much the same basses with the same type of woods that you have, now I do every now/then will take out my preGibson Tobias ( which were the best basses Mike ever made IMO ),but the MTD and the Tobias are nothing alike.But the MTD is still no doubt a great bass,its just not my cup of tea.
Hands5,
I hope you did not take my comments to be a slam against you. I totally understand what you are saying, unfortunately this process of finding the sound you hear in your head can be costly, especially if you decide to modify an instrument tying to capture that sound. That may work on a less expensive bass, but a custom hand crafted bass to me is a no, no, on modification. That's why I moved the Roscoe so quick, the workmanship and quality were top notch, I even liked the tone, but the neck on the sixer was a bit to chunky for my not so large hands, while the MTD felt very comfortable in my hands and the sound was right to my ears. My F-Bass BN5 actually felt and sounded great, but I found the nitro finish to wear off easily, so I refinished it with poly, only to find the preamp to have low output as compared to my other basses, so it gave way to a MTD 535 that I didn't keep because I already had a wenge/wenge MTD although with a different body wood I wanted more versatility. I discover that is was much easier moving these basses and getting top resale value for them when they have not been modified. So after much trial, i have come to find MTD, and Skjold to be my tone oh and my Nordy vJ5 PJ/JJ. I am sure I will try other basses, but I know what gooch means when he says MTD4LYFE. We all experience the quest for the ultimate tone, that is in our head and one way or another, and over time it is going to be costly. I know someone who modified a MIM Fender Jazz he bought it new for $299. When he finished modifying it he had $1200 invested in it. I told him he could have gotten a used custom shop for that, but to each his own.
Blessings!
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ptid, i get what u sayin and 1200 dollars worth of mods for a 300 bass is a bit insane. But do you think that it wasnt just about cost, it was about the whole joy of doin what u want puttin in what you feel? the experience.
the whole big selling point about the MTD, more than the tone, as you guys mentioned (and read the previous posts) is about how mike hears what you want, mike decides whats best for your tone, mike goes out and picks the wood, mike chops down his own trees (added for humorous effect, (no offence mike LOL) ). but all that goes for YOU. so why would someone wants someone else's used? he didnt do all that for them, he hand crafted that for the person thats selling it. now for some people thats good enough and they'll swoop in on that deal in a minute. for others its like buying a custom shop car that was customized for "that other guy over there". it has no special thing about it. and i know several musicians - some treat everything they buy as the next piece of equipment, others treat everything they acquire as a part of them. those guys dont want someone elses part.
for me, my budget is going to be determined by my skill level. and that only makes sense. just like im starting practicing keyboard to enhance my bass playing. I didnt go get the $4000 yamaha. i got me a $150 keyboard. and i know the $4K joint is better, but does that really matter when all ur playing is the major and minor scales and major and minor triads? nope. all the synth effects and precision sounds in the world, if u cant play a c-major chord, you cant play a c-major chord. period. if i cant lay down the bass proficiently as i should or create musical ideas as i would like to, a more expensive bass isnt going to help that.
so for the "gotta have that great tone" guys, then this whole discussion is really for ya'll, but i think ya'll pullin some people into the hype who are not even at that level. for the rest of us, (well maybe i should speak for myself) i hear of all of these names (some of them look horrible in my opinion anyway) but none of them are even on my radar. And if anyone disagrees, the first time your kids say "i wanna learn bass", put Mike on speaker and let them tell him what tone they want. LOL
that was a fun post. LOL
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Floaded speaks for a lot of us, the guys who are holding it down at (insert name of church here) every Sunday, playing for an audience that wouldn't know Tone if he introduced himself to them. I honestly can say that I might not know him either! I play a $325 MIM Fender Fretless Jazz and a $150 SX Fretted Jazz through a $300 Fender Bassman 100 and an $80 Crate BX-50 (I know some of you are cringing as you read this). If someone let me play a MTD through a Genz Benz rig then I would probably hear a difference but hearing that difference wouldn't cause me to take out a second mortgage because, at the end of it all, I am still going back to Weeping Mary Baptist Church and be drowned out by my Clavinova player! ::)
To mod or not to mod, which strings, how often should you change strings, which amp, which head, what settings on the amp, what settings on the pre-amp, which cab....to each his own. Tone is in the ear of the beholder, and assessing the quality of it is subjective at best. And there are way too many variables to go chasing windmills.
My two cents, humbly submitted.
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This is an interesting thread. Floaded27 you bring up a good point I have modified a bass just because I wanted to try something different and to have the experience. The danger in that is you may not be happy with the results after you have spent you money. Yet I would never do that to a boutique bass costing a few grand. It is easier to sell it someone will be eager to buy your custom I have bought a few basses that list for 4500-5500 for under 3K either because someone fell on hard times wanted something new or different. Saved me $$$$ for a fine crafted instrument. I have also ordered basses to my specifications from Mike, Carey, George, and Pete and the excitement of watching it come together for me is greater than modifying an instrument. However, I understand that this is not the way for everyone from a financial standpoint and or musicianship standpoint, a lot of people here are everyday working people who love the Lord and get great pleasure out of give him the glory with the gear they are blessed to have. When I played professionally it was on keyboards for the most part, bass was my second instrument, but I acquired an ear for the quality instruments. I began playing bass at the church when the two previous bass players went on tour leaving the band bottomless. Now I could probably play on any CNC'ed bass from Sam Ash or GC, but I prefer and enjoy playing MTD's through Epifani, Aguilar, and ThunderFunk, because I am well established, more mature, and have a lot more patience than I use to. Playing key i would buy a new board for 3-4K every three years or so. A bass has a lot more longevity the a keyboard and hold their value much better. I also realize that Mike's work is sough after worldwide. Where does the value of his instruments go once he's gone (he's no spring chicken, although I wish nothing like that upon him anytime soon) so it is also an investment. I am teaching my 7 year old grandson how to play, these masterpieces will be his one day with a value as a 62 Fender J.
bottom line high-end may not be for everyone because not everyone will be able to appreciate or utilize some of these types of instruments made by great luthiers, for them a Brownville may suffice. It takes time to understand and learn woods and their attributes pickup placement, the windings and all that goes into build a precision instrument But let he that have an ear to hear, hear.
Blessings
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bottom line high-end may not be for everyone because not everyone will be able to appreciate or utilize some of these types of instruments made by great luthiers, for them a Brownville may suffice.
as a mod of the bass section I'm tempted to try and get you a 3 day suspension for saying that anyone will suffice with a Brownville.......ROFL ;D :D
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as a mod of the bass section I'm tempted to try and get you a 3 day suspension for saying that anyone will suffice with a Brownville.......ROFL ;D :D
im "spittin my juice out" laughin. even i got an ear beyond one of those. LOL
@ptid, i get what u sayin. i would never mod a bass i paid a few grand for. if i didnt get what i wanted in that few grand then i shouldnt have bought it. plus i would think that the maker would be offended if u modified a custom.
i guess i have a certain viewpoint being from Brooklyn,NY where a lot of people tend to put flash over substance. Guy 1: "Yo I just got this new MTD. It cost way more than your bass plus it got better tone and everything." Guy 2: "Wow. So let me hear it" Guy 1: "I dont know how to play yet"
As a youth leader in my church i constantly have to tell the young teenagers about these kinds of things (they wanna be all about the flash and hype) so after a while i tend to look at things in a certain way. i have no doubt that they're great instruments (all of the names mentioned) but as long as no one is made to feel that they cant be great without one (the main reason why people fall into hype in any situation), then im a happy camper.
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Floaded speaks for a lot of us, the guys who are holding it down at (insert name of church here) every Sunday, playing for an audience that wouldn't know To mod or not to mod, which strings, how often should you change strings, which amp, which head, what settings on the amp, what settings on the preamp, which cab....to each his own. Tone is in the ear of the beholder, and assessing the quality of it is subjective at best. And there are way too many variables to go chasing windmills.
My two cents, humbly submitted.
I thought i was the only one who notice that Some of people Talk about thhose kind of things on this site . you hit it right on the head . Its the Bass Player Not the bass.
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Hands5,
I hope you did not take my comments to be a slam against you. I totally understand what you are saying, unfortunately this process of finding the sound you hear in your head can be costly, especially if you decide to modify an instrument tying to capture that sound. That may work on a less expensive bass, but a custom hand crafted bass to me is a no, no, on modification. That's why I moved the Roscoe so quick, the workmanship and quality were top notch, I even liked the tone, but the neck on the sixer was a bit to chunky for my not so large hands, while the MTD felt very comfortable in my hands and the sound was right to my ears. My F-Bass BN5 actually felt and sounded great, but I found the nitro finish to wear off easily, so I refinished it with poly, only to find the preamp to have low output as compared to my other basses, so it gave way to a MTD 535 that I didn't keep because I already had a wenge/wenge MTD although with a different body wood I wanted more versatility. I discover that is was much easier moving these basses and getting top resale value for them when they have not been modified. So after much trial, i have come to find MTD, and Skjold to be my tone oh and my Nordy vJ5 PJ/JJ. I am sure I will try other basses, but I know what gooch means when he says MTD4LYFE. We all experience the quest for the ultimate tone, that is in our head and one way or another, and over time it is going to be costly. I know someone who modified a MIM Fender Jazz he bought it new for $299. When he finished modifying it he had $1200 invested in it. I told him he could have gotten a used custom shop for that, but to each his own.
Blessings!
No my brother no offense taken, I was just saying that the sound of the MTD ( and proably alot of what I call modern sounding basses) just isnt my cup of tea anymore,I even got to try out a Nordy J5 with both the fat stacks/and a real nice sounding passive one with just the regular single coils and the one with the singles coils I like better,but the radius ( 12') and the string spacing ( 20 ) no thanks.I did have a F bass about 2yrs ago,and although it sounded good,it still was a little soft in the volume area,funny thing is I still do have a couple of high/end basses hanging around ( Sadowsky MS5/ Atelier Z, and believe it or not a Cort/Elrick Josh Paul-that my son has pretty much taken it over ) that I'll play,but my MIM 97 Jazz Bass/with the Dimarzio ultra J pickups is getting most of the work
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Sound and Tone is going to preference. I have an MTD 535. I actually spent 3 years of researching different "gospel" leaned bass guitars and found that the gospel industry bass players were using MTD or Ken Smith. Without trying my MTD before purchase, I was very fearful of not liking what I ordered. So I asked Mike himself and he explained the tone to the T. Everything I put in words he delivered in my bass. You have to be careful what you tell him. If you say something like I want a fender jazz bass sounds he'll be honest with you and tell you to purchase a fender jazz. If you say I want an Andrew Gouche bass. He's going to tell you a poplar body, myrtle burl top, maple neck, rosewood fretboard. He is the master of tone.
Understand the MTD are very hifi. My opinion, I would call them thin, but I know what you are trying to convey. I have a modified Ibanez SR505. I installed an Aguilar OBP 3 Pre, Bart PU, and a Hipshot tuner. Much warmer than the MTD but it's the wood not the electronics although they have subtle part. Mike told me that it's typically best to play the instrument your going to buy before you buy. An instrument that is strong acoustically will be strong (providing decent electronics). If you play without an amp and cab and you find a fluttery B string with week punch. More and likely when plugged in you'll get the same results. I know, I've done this. I have an Tobias Pro Toby 6 (Cheap Tobias from a website that used to exist musicyo.com) and I hated the tone. I installed customer Bart PU's, custom Bart Pre, and the sound didn't get noticeably better. It was what I call thin. It was the wood combo.
For me to be happy this is my recipe:
MTD 535-21Fret, Ash Body, Walnut Top, Ash neck (chords and tapping woo-hoo), and birdseye maple (slappy) coupled with Epifani UL502 and Epifani 2 UL2 4X10.
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Welcome to the site, MichaelDalton7