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Gospel Instruments => Bass Guitar => Topic started by: FenderJazzGuy on October 04, 2009, 10:57:36 PM

Title: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 04, 2009, 10:57:36 PM
Hello everyone. This is a touchy subject so I would like some feedback from you all. I want to know how you feel about Christian musicians playing in secular settings. A lot of musicians that I look up to play in both settings. I would love to one day support myself playing bass but I don't want to limit myself to just gospel music. Now rite there some of you may have a slight frown on your face. I'm not saying that I would play for the likes of the "2 live crew". I'm just saying that there is some nice clean music and artists in the secular world. In my opinion, as long as I take a stand on my beliefs and morals I would be comfortable playing other music. I feel if I carry my self correct in a secular setting I would allow the God In my life to shine with people that may never experience God in that type of setting. Think about it. If Marcus Miller or Victor Wooten called you out of the blue for a gig, would you really wanna pass up on that opportunity to play with them because your a Christian? I know that a lot of Pastors that know the importance of being a musician in the church would not be happy to know that their Minstrels are playing secular music. Im just a lover of music and I think its OK to stretch your boundaries beyond the church walls. As long as its done in good taste and you keep God first and foremost. So, I'm expecting to see some interesting comments on this..........Stay blessed!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: blacklw234 on October 05, 2009, 04:21:24 AM
I would say that this is one of those questions that the person in that situation would have to pray about. Because decisions and experiences we make and have,
Hello everyone. This is a touchy subject so I would like some feedback from you all. I want to know how you feel about Christian musicians playing in secular settings. A lot of musicians that I look up to play in both settings. I would love to one day support myself playing bass but I don't want to limit myself to just gospel music. Now rite there some of you may have a slight frown on your face. I'm not saying that I would play for the likes of the "2 live crew". I'm just saying that there is some nice clean music and artists in the secular world. In my opinion, as long as I take a stand on my beliefs and morals I would be comfortable playing other music. I feel if I carry my self correct in a secular setting I would allow the God In my life to shine with people that may never experience God in that type of setting. Think about it. If Marcus Miller or Victor Wooten called you out of the blue for a gig, would you really wanna pass up on that opportunity to play with them because your a Christian? I know that a lot of Pastors that know the importance of being a musician in the church would not be happy to know that their Minstrels are playing secular music. Im just a lover of music and I think its OK to stretch your boundaries beyond the church walls. As long as its done in good taste and you keep God first and foremost. So, I'm expecting to see some interesting comments on this..........Stay blessed!!
all develope who were are in Christ whether it is bad or good. So thats why I say, if you make the decision to play secular music, and it turns out to be an experience that was bad, then God will have a growing lesson in it. If it turns out to be an experience where you were able to let your light shine, then that is also a plus. I believe the decisions we make whether bad or good, will work out for our good. Bible says "all things work out for the good of those who love the Lord".

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 05, 2009, 07:48:21 AM
I personally don't see a problem with playing secular music if you are not glorifying it. At all most all weddings, there is a secular love song played, in church, by a church musician. Is that wrong? And if this turns out to be your only source of income, you have to do what you have to do to provide for your family. I used to work a job where I would miss services on Sunday because I was providing for my family. Did I like it, No, but the bills had to be paid.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: arthur59 on October 05, 2009, 07:53:13 AM
Hello everyone. This is a touchy subject so I would like some feedback from you all. I want to know how you feel about Christian musicians playing in secular settings. A lot of musicians that I look up to play in both settings. I would love to one day support myself playing bass but I don't want to limit myself to just gospel music. Now rite there some of you may have a slight frown on your face. I'm not saying that I would play for the likes of the "2 live crew". I'm just saying that there is some nice clean music and artists in the secular world. In my opinion, as long as I take a stand on my beliefs and morals I would be comfortable playing other music. I feel if I carry my self correct in a secular setting I would allow the God In my life to shine with people that may never experience God in that type of setting. Think about it. If Marcus Miller or Victor Wooten called you out of the blue for a gig, would you really wanna pass up on that opportunity to play with them because your a Christian? I know that a lot of Pastors that know the importance of being a musician in the church would not be happy to know that their Minstrels are playing secular music. Im just a lover of music and I think its OK to stretch your boundaries beyond the church walls. As long as its done in good taste and you keep God first and foremost. So, I'm expecting to see some interesting comments on this..........Stay blessed!!
Let me ask you this,is every one on your current job saved,sanctified,holy ghost filled and fire baptize.If you chose to work as a musician around secular people, and you love what you are doing and dont feel guilty about it,I would say go for it.If your a true christian your light should shine no matter where you work.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: superjaay on October 05, 2009, 08:03:20 AM
It's a tough call. I have a similiar issue. There are several members in family who are deacons at another local church that own and manage a nightclub/liquor store. I have personally had many questions over the years about the hypocrisy that could possibly represent. I still don't know the answer as to whether that's acceptable. I do believe that God know you heart and that's what is most important. If your spirit is uneasy with playing secular music, then that's God telling you not to do it. Christians won't feel at home doing wrong.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: organman88 on October 05, 2009, 08:22:13 AM
Why when the word secular comes up it always relate to music. All secular means non religous, to some people being a musician is a job (you can treat a church gig as a job and also be a minstrel too) and 98% of people that have jobs they are not related to god so in that case working at burger king is secular the bible says if a man don't work he don't eat 
 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 05, 2009, 09:24:32 AM
Why when the word secular comes up it always relate to music....


Good observation. I've seen that as well.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 05, 2009, 09:52:34 AM
I am going to take the position that I am not a "Gospel Musician" but rather a musician who plays Gospel music. I also play Jazz, R & B, Pop, and Rock (although Gospel music is primarily what I play when I play "out"). If I had the opportunity to play in a jazz combo I would. If I had the chance to play in a R & B or Pop/Rock group I would probably do that as well. Heavy metal or country? Probably not. :)

That said, if there was a particular SONG that I personally objected to playing I would probably not play the song.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 05, 2009, 10:07:55 AM
I see no problem with it. Of course you will have church people who will talk about you or try to put you down, but really its not their business. I know many of yall might disagree with that. :D  

IMO its a personal decision. If you dont wanna do it, then dont. but dont put others down who do.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on October 05, 2009, 11:01:55 AM
It's a tough call. I have a similiar issue. There are several members in family who are deacons at another local church that own and manage a nightclub/liquor store. I have personally had many questions over the years about the hypocrisy that could possibly represent.


?/?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 05, 2009, 12:33:25 PM
It's a tough call. I have a similiar issue. There are several members in family who are deacons at another local church that own and manage a nightclub/liquor store. I have personally had many questions over the years about the hypocrisy that could possibly represent. I still don't know the answer as to whether that's acceptable. I do believe that God know you heart and that's what is most important. If your spirit is uneasy with playing secular music, then that's God telling you not to do it. Christians won't feel at home doing wrong.

people aren't going to like me for this, but I'll say it anyways.

Deacons running a liquor store aint nothing but the devil at work and they should NOT carry the title deacon.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: superjaay on October 05, 2009, 12:39:44 PM
Jeremyr I can appreciate your opinion. Is the problem you have with the fact that they are deacons, or that they are Christians?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 05, 2009, 01:47:36 PM
people aren't going to like me for this, but I'll say it anyways.

Deacons running a liquor store aint nothing but the devil at work and they should NOT carry the title deacon.

Should Deacons be allowed to own restaurants that serve wine, beer or liquor?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 05, 2009, 02:21:30 PM
Well I agree that people dont care if your boss or co-workers are saved. They dont even care or investigate whether the owners of the company that they work for is a Christian. All of a sudden when they hear that their church musician is playing secular, they anit saved anymore. People are so quick to pass judgement on someone elses decisions. Eveyone should know the things that they as a Christian can handle. If you can't handle playing in a secular setting because you used to have a drinking problem, then don't push your issues on others. I have never had a problem with drinking so I don't get tempted around alcohol.

As far as the 'bar owning' deacon, It's not our problem to make him feel guilty. That's the Holy Spirit's job. If he really seeks God, he will change his job if that's his desire. We can't pass our convictions on others.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 05, 2009, 04:20:57 PM
I once worked for "the devil" for 4 years with Beelzebub as a supervisor the last two as a truck driver, so I doubt anything can top that music or not.

And as I have said the MANY times this topic has arisen on this site, yeah, I'll do a secular gig in a heartbeat as long as they don't worship the devil onstage.  I go in, play my music, disappear during the breaks, get my money(which is a blessing), break down my gear at the end, and go home.  I kept my head and my morals up in there so I have no guilt. 

I mean would playing for Stevie Wonder, Gladys Knight, or Barry Manilow be sinful?  I mean it is secular. 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 05, 2009, 04:29:30 PM
The Bible doesn't say drinking alcohol is a problem. The problem is when you drink in excess.  The bible does say remain sober. I dont drink but I feel drinking can be OK in moderation.  Its all about knowing yourself and knowing your limits. Its the same with playing secular music. You know what you can handle better than anyone else and is always a personal decision that you should pray on. As far as deacons owning liquor stores the Bible does hold you accountable for your actions if you do something you know could cause others to sin.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BassbyGrace on October 05, 2009, 05:11:58 PM
I dont have the energy to go into another of these lol.  Yet, to address a lil bit:

As far as the 'bar owning' deacon, It's not our problem to make him feel guilty. That's the Holy Spirit's job. If he really seeks God, he will change his job if that's his desire. We can't pass our convictions on others.

You know what? sometimes it is our job.  Some ppl arent convicted by premarital sex or gossip, but is it not our job to address it?  A liquor store?  Seriously?  Mind you there are many Christians that dont have the Holy Ghost.  Just throwin that out there.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on October 05, 2009, 08:07:57 PM
 
people aren't going to like me for this, but I'll say it anyways.

Deacons running a liquor store aint nothing but the devil at work and they should NOT carry the title deacon.
:D

I think it depends on what you are playing and the atmosphere. I personally if playing secular would rather it be weddings, special events, and the educational/arts type arenas for the most part. I wouldn't won't to play for artists promoting sin.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MikeGee on October 05, 2009, 08:17:02 PM
people aren't going to like me for this, but I'll say it anyways.

Deacons running a liquor store aint nothing but the devil at work and they should NOT carry the title deacon.


I am gonna have to agree here.

A bass player on the praise team at church than going to someone's wedding reception and playing the bass line to "brick house" or "Get Ready" is different than being a deacon and owning a liquor store.

But this is just my 2 cents. I know it's worth no more than that.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on October 05, 2009, 09:07:49 PM
The difference for me boils down to if you can be seperated from the action, or if the action doesn't cause another to stumble.

Like Jeremyr said, a Deacon owning a liquor store... that would definately cause some folks to stumble.

In the instance of playing music, you have to get more involved in the process than merely pushing buttons, or stocking a shelf, cutting grass, or other such occupations.  As a Software Engineer, at a company that is not Christian I can code all day, and when I leave the desk, I take nothing with me.  (And before someone says it, "Yes, I have turned down many projects because the product could be a stumbling block for others, and No I don't watch television shows, or read literature that is not beneficial for more.  Remember God is not a respector of persons, so if You wouldn't feel comfortable following a man of God who does said action, you should probably refrain from it as well.)

Playing music is a SPIRITUAL act, whether you guys want to acknowledge it or not.

So that the post is not only based on my opinion lets put some scripture to it.

Can a believer play secular music?  The answer in short is "YES"  But we have to ask ourselves is it beneficial to our Christian walk?  1 Corinthians 10:23 "All things are legitimate [permissible--and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life]." - Amplified
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on October 05, 2009, 09:12:39 PM
Mind you there are many Christians that dont have the Holy Ghost.  Just throwin that out there.

Without opening a doctrinal can of worms, I would call that person a Christian ever so loosely, without the Spirit of God, this Christian walk is impossible.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 06, 2009, 08:51:46 AM
As far as the 'bar owning' deacon, It's not our problem to make him feel guilty. That's the Holy Spirit's job. If he really seeks God, he will change his job if that's his desire. We can't pass our convictions on others.
I don't think it's a matter of making someone feel guilty, but you NEED to call people out on stuff if you see it as detrimental to their walk with Christ.  Do you really want to be a judgment and see someone that you care about lost because you didn't take the time to confront them and bring the issues to the forefront so they could be dealt with?

I'd rather people hate me now and be my best friend when we make it through those pearly gates TOGETHER instead of me looking through the walls of the new Jerusalem seeing those people rise with the wicked dead.


Jeremyr I can appreciate your opinion. Is the problem you have with the fact that they are deacons, or that they are Christians?

Both. 

I am a believer that we as Christians have been instructed not to partake in "Strong drink". With that being said Alcohol is a DRUG (yes I said a drug) and the pushers of Alcohol are no different IMHO than a drug pusher.

People die because of the stuff, they loose families because of the stuff, and they kill others because of the stuff, and they abuse one another because of the stuff.

Do we really think God wants us drinking things that cause disease (liver issues) as ages us?  He has told us that our bodies are his temple and that's no way to treat a temple IMHO. Anything that has these ill effects cannot be "taken in moderation". Here's what the wisest man in the world EVER had to say about it.

Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Should Deacons be allowed to own restaurants that serve wine, beer or liquor?

I don't think ANY christian regardless of title in the church should own a restaurant that serves wine.We have been called to be set apart from the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 09:38:01 AM

People die because of the stuff, they loose families because of the stuff, and they kill others because of the stuff, and they abuse one another because of the stuff.

Do we really think God wants us drinking things that cause disease (liver issues) as ages us?  He has told us that our bodies are his temple and that's no way to treat a temple IMHO. Anything that has these ill effects cannot be "taken in moderation". Here's what the wisest man in the world EVER had to say about it.


Proverbs 20:1 "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

I don't think ANY christian regardless of title in the church should own a restaurant that serves wine.We have been called to be set apart from the rest of the world.


So is it not possible to drink wine and not be deceived by it?

as for the bolded, why cant it be taken in moderation? Not everybody is an alcoholic. To me thats like saying "christians should not eat fried chicken, because it causes high blood pressure and other illness"

so obviously I have to disagree with you.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 06, 2009, 10:06:31 AM
So is it not possible to drink wine and not be deceived by it?

as for the bolded, why cant it be taken in moderation? Not everybody is an alcoholic. To me thats like saying "christians should not eat fried chicken, because it causes high blood pressure and other illness"

so obviously I have to disagree with you.


I think that by drinking wine and believing that the little bit you drank isn't a problem is you already being deceived by it.

If it's not good for you, you shouldn't eat or drink it. period. 

And I don't believe that we should be eating fried chicken.  Look how many of us black folks are getting diabetes and high cholesterol from that mess.  Just because you're ok in the short term doesn't mean that you're OK in the long term. The same goes with alcohol.  You're system could be more susceptible than others and the couple of drinks you have a year can give you liver disease in 5 years, which otherwise probably could have been avoided had you not have partaken in it.

God gave man a diet from the get go and all this additional mess we're eating and drinking is killing us off.  I have a theory that all this cancer and mess didn't start coming along until people started mixing up all these concoctions of foods and chemicals all in order to make a dollar and make the food last longer.


Yes I am guilty of fried chicken though from time to time :'( :'( (Yall pray for a brotha because good friend chicken is on POINT!). Lord KNOWS i've had a hard time giving up that good baked macaroni & cheese.  My point isn't just against alcohol though.  It's against ALL things that harm your body.

I mean do we really think we'll be in heaven eating fried chicken legs and drinking some Smirnoff..LOL!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 06, 2009, 10:15:17 AM
you cant take my baked macaroni and cheese from me. I wont let you. Its mine!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 06, 2009, 10:20:24 AM
Although i don't drink alcohol, I sure steam my shrimp with it though, along with some butter, old bay seasoning, and dried herbs. ;D ;D ;D For the ones who don't cook, the alcohol gets cooked off, so just flavor is left, not the alcohol. I will say this though, for medicinal purposes, alcohol does have some good qualities. My great grandmother lived to be in her 90s and had a shot of alcohol a day. She said it kept her body cleaned out. Right now in my cabinet is a mixture of moonshine, honey and grapes that my wife's grandmother gave to us to use as cough syrup. That stuff really works. One table spoon before going to bed, and when you wake up, you're not coughing anymore.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 06, 2009, 10:40:18 AM
hat stuff really works. One table spoon before going to bed, and when you wake up, you're not coughing anymore.

ROFL!!!!!!! That's because that joker done burnt all your insides up from being so potent.

I kid I kid..lol!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 06, 2009, 10:44:18 AM
ROFL!!!!!!! That's because that joker done burnt all your insides up from being so potent.

I kid I kid..lol!

You're right. It put hairs on your chest as it goes down!!!!!1 ;D ;D Have you heard about pouring some over an open wound to clean it like rubbing alcohol?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 06, 2009, 11:13:49 AM
No fried chicken? then what folks supposed to do after church? Doesnt it say "forgetting not to assemble yourself and afterward partake in the fried chicken with thanksgiving?"....wait a minute, i think i might have some of that wrong. lol.

And I don't believe that we should be eating fried chicken.  Look how many of us black folks are getting diabetes and high cholesterol from that mess.  Just because you're ok in the short term doesn't mean that you're OK in the long term......Yes I am guilty of fried chicken though from time to time :'( :'( (Yall pray for a brotha because good friend chicken is on POINT!). Lord KNOWS i've had a hard time giving up that good baked macaroni & cheese.  My point isn't just against alcohol though.  It's against ALL things that harm your body.

I dont think its really food itself that leads to diabetes and high cholesterol, its the excess of such. and while i shouldnt have to come up on the altar with a plate of food, i should come to the altar with the burden of excess. and a very high percentage of those people with those diseases dont exercise regularly at all. So sometimes instead of always saying "dont eat that" we should say "get off ur butt".

as for alcohol, i cant make any logical deductions or conclusions like i do with every other matter. dealing with my father and uncle and hearing the stories of my grandfather dealing with alcohol, im completely biased about it. so regardless of who owns the liquor store, i dont think it should even be open.


I don't think it's a matter of making someone feel guilty, but you NEED to call people out on stuff if you see it as detrimental to their walk with Christ.
also jeremy, sometimes we need to address it, but i think thats where most of us christians get it wrong, because we dont always know the proper way to do that. a lot of times the accusing, condemning approach isnt always right. often the best way to get people to change is to help them understand why they should, instead of just telling them they need to.


so the answer to this whole question: Playing secular music in a liquor store while eating fried chicken is a definite NO NO!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 06, 2009, 11:23:01 AM

so the answer to this whole question: Playing secular music in a liquor store while eating fried chicken is a definite NO NO!!!
LOL!

Back onto the topic of secular music I think you have to know what are your boundaries are as mentioned earlier.

HOWEVER playing for some "gospel" artist can be just as bad as a bad secular artist if the spirit isn't right, so just because they're singing "church" songs doesn't mean you're in a good position.


I would play in a neo soul band if it weren't promoting devilish acts through the lyrics of the motive behind the music.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 11:24:41 AM

I would play in a neo soul band if it weren't promoting devilish acts through the lyrics of the motive behind the music.


I thought thats what we were talkin about! Whats the big fuss! :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 06, 2009, 12:41:49 PM
I don't think it's a matter of making someone feel guilty, but you NEED to call people out on stuff if you see it as detrimental to their walk with Christ.  Do you really want to be a judgment and see someone that you care about lost because you didn't take the time to confront them and bring the issues to the forefront so they could be dealt with?

 


I feel it is our job to just give people JESUS. Its not our job to be on a mission to clean people up. The Holy Ghost is a revealer. We can push people away always telling them that they are doing everything wrong. Yes, it's good to help people not go down the wrong path but if they truly have a heart after God then the Holy Spirit will convict them in the areas that need correcting. Its kinda funny because If a Bum comes into some churches, they will be more concerned in telling him to stop drinking instead of giving him JESUS. WE are supposed to go around giving the GOOD NEWS. The good news is not about condemning people for not living like I live.

Speaking of alcohol, Nyquil has more alcohol in it that some wine. I don't hear anyone preaching you will go to hell for taking it. YES its for medicinal purposes but it STILL contains sinful alcohol right? Im so glad that when judgement day comes for me, I won't have to stand before anyone on this earth. God is the only and final judge. I respect everyone's opinion but don't put your issues on others. There is no scripture that says "If you drink ANY type of alcohol you will go straight to hell". Please don't take my sense of humor against me. I love all yall and this is just a discussion over personal opinion.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 01:06:06 PM
I feel it is our job to just give people JESUS. Its not our job to be on a mission to clean people up. The Holy Ghost is a revealer. We can push people away always telling them that they are doing everything wrong. Yes, it's good to help people not go down the wrong path but if they truly have a heart after God then the Holy Spirit will convict them in the areas that need correcting. Its kinda funny because If a Bum comes into some churches, they will be more concerned in telling him to stop drinking instead of giving him JESUS. WE are supposed to go around giving the GOOD NEWS. The good news is not about condemning people for not living like I live.

Speaking of alcohol, Nyquil has more alcohol in it that some wine. I don't hear anyone preaching you will go to hell for taking it. YES its for medicinal purposes but it STILL contains sinful alcohol right? Im so glad that when judgement day comes for me, I won't have to stand before anyone on this earth. God is the only and final judge. I respect everyone's opinion but don't put your issues on others. There is no scripture that says "If you drink ANY type of alcohol you will go straight to hell". Please don't take my sense of humor against me. I love all yall and this is just a discussion over personal opinion.

This is the best post I've read all year. We are saved by Faith, not by works. There will surely be some who were alcoholics in heaven, and some of the people that "lived right" wont be there because they did not know Jesus as their personal savior.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 06, 2009, 01:21:50 PM
Under, you are preaching now! We really don't know WHO will make it in. The most holy person in our own eyes may very well break the gates of hell WIDE open. All I can say is THANK GOD FOR GRACE AND MERCIES!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 06, 2009, 01:46:52 PM
"Your grace and mercy, brought me through..." senior choir betta sang!!! ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 06, 2009, 02:00:52 PM
OK, I've sat on the sidelines long enough.  :)

My grandmother used to say, "Every wash tub has to sit on its own bottom." None of us truly know who will make it in, and who won't. To be frank, we don't even know if WE will make it. Such is the nature of living a faith-based life: we beleive, and we act in a manner consistent with our beliefs.

When we see someone doing something wrong, and the action is directly against us, I think it is in order to address that wrong with the person.

When we see someone doing wrong, and the action is not directly against us, I think it is more appropriate to pray for that person while we are praying for our own salvation. "Judge not, lest ye also be judged."

As for food and drink (alcoholic and otherwise), the Bible and medical science both teach us that moderation is the key. Good health is a lifestyle choice consisting of diet and exercise.

When you begin to talk about people's occupations that is a slippery slope. I personally would not work for RJReynolds because I strongly oppose smoking, I probably wouldn't work for Anheiser Busch either even though I am not opposed to drinking beer (in moderation). At the same time, I don't have a very high opinion of pawn shops, check cashing places, and strip clubs either. But everybody who works in a strip club is not an exotic dancer so do you condemn the waitress, the security guard, or the cook in the kitchen? And the owners of such establishments are helping the community by employing people who might otherwise be doing other illegal or immoral things to earn a living.

As for the question that started it all, here is a repost of my answer: I am going to take the position that I am not a "Gospel Musician" but rather a musician who plays Gospel music. I also play Jazz, R & B, Pop, and Rock (although Gospel music is primarily what I play when I play "out"). If I had the opportunity to play in a jazz combo I would. If I had the chance to play in a R & B or Pop/Rock group I would probably do that as well. Heavy metal or country? Probably not.

That said, if there was a particular SONG that I personally objected to playing I would probably not play the song. "Adore" by Prince? Yes. "Erotic City" by Prince? Probably not.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 06, 2009, 02:09:20 PM
"Your grace and mercy, brought me through..." senior choir betta sang!!! ;D
hey, somebody put their fried chicken down and pick them up in Ab. lol. No, you cant use my bass, i dont want no grease on my strings. lol.


but seriously what happened to being "living epistles read by men" and "iron sharpening iron"? I think sometimes christians operate on 2 extremes. Either they point out everything you do wrong and condemn u to hell, or they dont say nothin and let everything slide. So when someone first accepts Jesus, do we make them feel like they got a first class ticket to hell, or do we let them do whatever they want and say the Holy Spirit will straighten it out? I thought our job was to teach others once we are enlightened, or at least be an example. Didnt some changes we made happen because we were taught, or did everyone receive visitation from the Holy Spirit about everything from Day 1?

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 02:34:47 PM

That said, if there was a particular SONG that I personally objected to playing I would probably not play the song. "Adore" by Prince? Yes. "Erotic City" by Prince? Probably not.

What about "Do Me Baby"? :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: DWBass on October 06, 2009, 02:56:23 PM
I feel it is our job to just give people JESUS. Its not our job to be on a mission to clean people up. The Holy Ghost is a revealer. We can push people away always telling them that they are doing everything wrong. Yes, it's good to help people not go down the wrong path but if they truly have a heart after God then the Holy Spirit will convict them in the areas that need correcting. Its kinda funny because If a Bum comes into some churches, they will be more concerned in telling him to stop drinking instead of giving him JESUS. WE are supposed to go around giving the GOOD NEWS. The good news is not about condemning people for not living like I live.

 
Amen!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 06, 2009, 03:54:33 PM
I feel it is our job to just give people JESUS. Its not our job to be on a mission to clean people up. The Holy Ghost is a revealer. We can push people away always telling them that they are doing everything wrong. Yes, it's good to help people not go down the wrong path but if they truly have a heart after God then the Holy Spirit will convict them in the areas that need correcting. Its kinda funny because If a Bum comes into some churches, they will be more concerned in telling him to stop drinking instead of giving him JESUS. WE are supposed to go around giving the GOOD NEWS. The good news is not about condemning people for not living like I live.

Speaking of alcohol, Nyquil has more alcohol in it that some wine. I don't hear anyone preaching you will go to hell for taking it. YES its for medicinal purposes but it STILL contains sinful alcohol right? Im so glad that when judgement day comes for me, I won't have to stand before anyone on this earth. God is the only and final judge. I respect everyone's opinion but don't put your issues on others. There is no scripture that says "If you drink ANY type of alcohol you will go straight to hell". Please don't take my sense of humor against me. I love all yall and this is just a discussion over personal opinion.

I'm not taking it personal doc!  It's good to have a good medium for conversation.

With that being said I don't believe that you keep making someone aware of the situation that you know is there, HOWEVER I do think that you need to speak with them once about it in a way that doesn't come off as saying "you're going to hell".

In the case of the deacons running a liquor store I definitely would've said something to each and every last one of them in private in a loving way and then I would've left the rest up to prayer.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 04:16:09 PM

In the case of the deacons running a liquor store I definitely would've said something to each and every last one of them in private in a loving way and then I would've left the rest up to prayer.

So if you were a pastor, would you allow that deacon to operate in ministry?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 06, 2009, 04:37:20 PM
I know i have no right to be in the bass room... lol.. but, i have a right to my opinion and yall gon geddit! LOL!

Honestly, as enticing as singing and playing "wordly music" as my church calls it, I would not do it! I would not waste nor share ANY of my talent (not that i'm some great, talented chick, but ya know...) on the world. Yes, the pay is better and the face time can benefit the career of a 'professional' musician... but why take something the Lord gave you and give it back to the world?

The bible does say, "what does it profit a man to gain the WHOLE world, and loose his soul." Playing for secular, wordly, ungodly (whatever you wanna call it) artists is nothing but trying to gain the world... and in the end, what did it profit you? a few extra hundred dollars that you could have sat at a desk or fried some chicken for?! It aint worth it! The bible also says, "How can two walk together except they agree." which would lead me to question the Life lived by the "christian."

Why would you want to take you and your sanctified self to play for an artist that does not serve the same God you do... Yes, everyone is a Christian, everyone "loves God" but not everyone is serving Him.. not everyone knows Jesus to be their savior. Whether they are "devil worshiping" or not, you know the type of tree by the fruit it bears... I'll choose the tight life NOW and walk too holy rather than live a loose life now and not make it to Heaven later... i'd rather do too much than not enough.

But i'm not trying to tell anyone what to do... lol... not tryna be bossy and stuff... I'm just giving opinion; and sorry it was sooooooooooooo long! lol  :-*
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 06, 2009, 04:37:52 PM
So if you were a pastor, would you allow that deacon to operate in ministry?

If I knew that he was running a liquor store I would ask him to step down from his position.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 06, 2009, 04:43:11 PM
What about "Do Me Baby"? :D

That's a hard one. I am on the fence. Anybody wanna chime in? ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 06, 2009, 05:24:43 PM
That's a hard one. I am on the fence. Anybody wanna chime in? ;D

if you playing at the churh couples ministry outing it might be ok...ROFL!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 05:34:22 PM

Honestly, as enticing as singing and playing "wordly music" as my church calls it, I would not do it! I would not waste nor share ANY of my talent (not that i'm some great, talented chick, but ya know...) on the world. Yes, the pay is better and the face time can benefit the career of a 'professional' musician... but why take something the Lord gave you and give it back to the world?

The bible does say, "what does it profit a man to gain the WHOLE world, and loose his soul." Playing for secular, wordly, ungodly (whatever you wanna call it) artists is nothing but trying to gain the world...

So because I choose to play with a Jazz artist or take a job as a school music teacher, I gain the whole world and lose my soul? Is that what you are saying?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 06, 2009, 05:38:11 PM
In the case of the deacons running a liquor store I definitely would've said something to each and every last one of them in private in a loving way and then I would've left the rest up to prayer.

im more interested in what u would say to the deacons running the fried chicken spot next door. lol.

I know i have no right to be in the bass room... lol.. but, i have a right to my opinion and yall gon geddit! LOL!
you have every right to be here....wait a minute, u do realize the bass is the best instrument ever, right? you do...then carry on. lol

and in the end, what did it profit you? a few extra hundred dollars that you could have sat at a desk or fried some chicken for?!

this quote alone is so fitting. u definitely belong in the convo.



but wait, how are we defining "secular music"? we sing "Happy Birthday" at my church for all the people that had a birthday that week. Thats not a gospel song, or is it now gospel because it was on a skit on one of Mary Mary's old albums. lol

btw, i was listening to an Earth Wind & Fire greatest hits collection double CD, and i heard a few songs on there that respected Gospel artists sing. The music is straight up the same. i can A/B a song if needed, one that i didnt even know about until i listened to the collection. So some of the gospel stuff we shouldnt be playing either if this topic is so black and white!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: manutabora on October 06, 2009, 06:38:01 PM
Wow, this is a very tough subject to discuss. I'm a young believer but I've been in many kinds of environments and learned a lot from many different experiences in different churches, so I feel like I have some things to say about some of this.
About alcohol... I cannot agree that drinking alcohol at all is bad. Remember, Jesus' first miracle was to make water into WINE. At the last supper, they broke bread and drank WINE. Paul told Timothy to quit drinking water because it was bad for his stomach, and to drink more WINE. That's right, for his health! I don't provide specific quotes only because I'm in a hurry, but the passages should be easy enough to find. So, alcohol in itself is not evil. In fact wine is used a lot in the Bible as a symbol for joy and celebration. Drunkenness is, as we all know, a different story.
Now, back to secular music. I was raised in Honduras and our churches are very strict with those kinds of things. So it's okay for people to dance, speak in tongues and go crazy in church but if you dance even a slow dance with a girl people think you're of the devil. If you listen to secular music, again, you're damned to hell... Now, at that time I was already studying classical music, and nobody had an issue with that. Why? A lot of the classical literature is secular, and I can tell you that some composers had really dark motivations for writing that music and it really comes through.
Now that I'm in the States, I have learned things that make me feel free as far as playing secular music. In fact, I think you pretty much have to if you want to be a well rounded musician. There's not a lot of Christian funk that I know of and that is a really fundamental area of study for bass players. However, I still won't do any of that stuff in Honduras in front of my family. Am I being a hipocrite? I don't think so. The issue is not always with yourself but with others. Paul said he became all things to all men, so that in the end some may be saved. He also talked about being stumbling blocks for others. So, if my faith allows me to eat pork (listen to/play secular music) but I know that such freedom will cause somebody else's faith to weaken, then that's surely a NO-NO for me, even though I have no issue with it myself.
This is my take on this. If anyone else with more insight has a better explanation, I would love to hear it too!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Christlike1984 on October 06, 2009, 08:04:55 PM
The difference for me boils down to if you can be seperated from the action, or if the action doesn't cause another to stumble.

Like Jeremyr said, a Deacon owning a liquor store... that would definately cause some folks to stumble.

In the instance of playing music, you have to get more involved in the process than merely pushing buttons, or stocking a shelf, cutting grass, or other such occupations.  As a Software Engineer, at a company that is not Christian I can code all day, and when I leave the desk, I take nothing with me.  (And before someone says it, "Yes, I have turned down many projects because the product could be a stumbling block for others, and No I don't watch television shows, or read literature that is not beneficial for more.  Remember God is not a respector of persons, so if You wouldn't feel comfortable following a man of God who does said action, you should probably refrain from it as well.)

Playing music is a SPIRITUAL act, whether you guys want to acknowledge it or not.

So that the post is not only based on my opinion lets put some scripture to it.

Can a believer play secular music?  The answer in short is "YES"  But we have to ask ourselves is it beneficial to our Christian walk?  1 Corinthians 10:23 "All things are legitimate [permissible--and we are free to do anything we please], but not all things are helpful (expedient, profitable, and wholesome). All things are legitimate, but not all things are constructive [to character] and edifying [to spiritual life]." - Amplified
   +1
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 06, 2009, 08:09:45 PM
im more interested in what u would say to the deacons running the fried chicken spot next door. lol.
you have every right to be here....wait a minute, u do realize the bass is the best instrument ever, right? you do...then carry on. lol

this quote alone is so fitting. u definitely belong in the convo.



but wait, how are we defining "secular music"? we sing "Happy Birthday" at my church for all the people that had a birthday that week. Thats not a gospel song, or is it now gospel because it was on a skit on one of Mary Mary's old albums. lol

HAHAH you're funny!!! I play the Keys but even i realized the best instrument God allowed man to create was the Bass!!! Lord knows... the bass can carry a service... and a good bass player can make a bass preach from genesis to revelations!!!!!!!!  Thanks for letting me in the convo! LOL!

I define secular music as that music that does not, in any way, glorify God or send a message of Jesus' imminent return. Secular music is music that does not posses the ability to edify, comfort or exhort; secular music is music that does not compel men and women to be saved... it is music that does not profit the soul.

Birthday songs??? um.... IDK what that is.. inspiration! LOL!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 06, 2009, 08:13:40 PM
So because I choose to play with a Jazz artist or take a job as a school music teacher, I gain the whole world and lose my soul? Is that what you are saying?


U... I'm saying exactly what i said when you quoted me.. nothing more, nothing less.. you can take it how you want to.  :P  ;)

But I'm saying this: People can do what they want to do... but in the end, every work whether good or evil will come into judgment... I'd rather do the works that would benefit me now, which would be to live a life pleasing in God's eyes rather than perish in my sins.. so... you can take that and run with it.. or you can trash it... this is how Anyana Dominique Michelle Kinchen is living her life! LOL!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 08:24:36 PM

U... I'm saying exactly what i said when you quoted me.. nothing more, nothing less.. you can take it how you want to.  :P  ;)

But I'm saying this: People can do what they want to do... but in the end, every work whether good or evil will come into judgment... I'd rather do the works that would benefit me now, which would be to live a life pleasing in God's eyes rather than perish in my sins.. so... you can take that and run with it.. or you can trash it... this is how Anyana Dominique Michelle Kinchen is living her life! LOL!

umm......sure
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 06, 2009, 08:28:41 PM
umm......sure

what?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 06, 2009, 08:34:07 PM
what?

 I'm saying exactly what i said when you quoted me.. nothing more, nothing less.. you can take it how you want to. :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 06, 2009, 08:46:23 PM
I'm saying exactly what i said when you quoted me.. nothing more, nothing less.. you can take it how you want to. :D

this is why on saturday you will return to NY without a face!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 06, 2009, 09:03:24 PM
Its the classic question. why is there always a double standard for music.  Is it because music is different from everything else. Is music different. We may never know until the pearly gates open.  You just have to be careful and follow your own convictions and pray.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 06, 2009, 09:34:32 PM
What about "Do Me Baby"? :D

That's a hard one. I am on the fence. Anybody wanna chime in? ;D

I've done it several times.  And we threw down too.  Does that negate me as a Christian in anyone's eyes?  If so, you'll be aaaight.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 07, 2009, 01:01:53 AM
for those of you who feel that you can do things in "moderation" with the term moderation being the key, do you also believe that this applies to things such as marijuana, meth, and or coke?

Where do you guys draw the line with things that are hazardous to your body? 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on October 07, 2009, 01:10:13 AM
for those of you who feel that you can do things in "moderation" with the term moderation being the key, do you also believe that this applies to things such as marijuana, meth, and or coke?

Where do you guys draw the line with things that are hazardous to your body? 

Oh, how much fried chicken is too much???

:D ?/? ;D

(Please - I'm playing w/you, not advocating taking or doing anything illegal)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 07, 2009, 08:23:30 AM
for those of you who feel that you can do things in "moderation" with the term moderation being the key, do you also believe that this applies to things such as marijuana, meth, and or coke?

Where do you guys draw the line with things that are hazardous to your body? 

Good point, jeremy. Certainly we can do things in moderation but careful choices must be made. For example, I was with some friends who wanted to go to a cigar bar. One of us (my brother, actually) who is a non-smoker went along because he wanted to try it. I politely declined. One cigar probably would not have had a significant effect on my health and well-being but I chose not to indulge, not even to the point of trying it.

I draw a very strict line with drugs of any sort. Smoking as well. I have no desire to try either, even in moderation.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 07, 2009, 09:11:30 AM
Oh, how much fried chicken is too much???

:D ?/? ;D

(Please - I'm playing w/you, not advocating taking or doing anything illegal)

LOL!! 

Maybe friend chicken should be illegal..hmmmmmm :D

I draw a very strict line with drugs of any sort. Smoking as well. I have no desire to try either, even in moderation.

Do you feel that if prohibition was a success and made it until today that Christians who currently see no problem with it would have a different view towards alcohol and possibly put in the same category as other drugs?

Now to plays the evil advocate here's a question.

Marijuana medically helps with glaucoma, so why does the church still label it as bad if it has "medical benefits" and it is a natural plant that grows? Is it ok ONLY if you have glaucoma or is there a line drawn there too? 

I realize that this is a serious can of worms because all medications are "drugs" so how do we draw the line.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Bullitt on October 07, 2009, 09:32:49 AM
Do you feel that if prohibition was a success and made it until today that Christians who currently see no problem with it would have a different view towards alcohol and possibly put in the same category as other drugs?

Now to plays the evil advocate here's a question.

Marijuana medically helps with glaucoma, so why does the church still label it as bad if it has "medical benefits" and it is a natural plant that grows? Is it ok ONLY if you have glaucoma or is there a line drawn there too? 

I realize that this is a serious can of worms because all medications are "drugs" so how do we draw the line.






(http://williamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/istock_can-of-worms.jpg)


-J

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 07, 2009, 09:34:56 AM
LOL!! 

Maybe friend chicken should be illegal..hmmmmmm :D

Do you feel that if prohibition was a success and made it until today that Christians who currently see no problem with it would have a different view towards alcohol and possibly put in the same category as other drugs?

Now to plays the evil advocate here's a question.

Marijuana medically helps with glaucoma, so why does the church still label it as bad if it has "medical benefits" and it is a natural plant that grows? Is it ok ONLY if you have glaucoma or is there a line drawn there too? 

I realize that this is a serious can of worms because all medications are "drugs" so how do we draw the line.



I admit that my views on alcohol vs. drugs are tied to the fact that alcohol is legal and drugs are not. As to why the church labels things the way they do, that is a can of worms indeed. My pastor doesn't like women preachers or praise dancing. So much of how we label things is a function of jaded thinking and whoever is leading that particular flock.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 07, 2009, 09:47:29 AM
Maybe friend chicken should be illegal..hmmmmmm :D
hey, now u crossin the line here buddy! u cant keep coming on here saying offensive stuff! lol



but im gonna say this. we know what these drugs and even alcohol does to people. Everyday we thank God for being in our right mind, so why would we even want to take things that puts us out of it? For people who dont know any better, are babies in Christ, and those who want deliverance from these things may have to take it one step at a time. But for those of us who know, have been delivered, were never bound by such things......u know.


as for the "being deceived" as jeremy mentioned earlier, these things can often lead to dependency. and thats NOT what God wants. being dependent on drugs for medical reasons prevents ur body from naturally fighting it. dependence on drugs for psychological, mental, emotional reasons prevents you from mentally and spiritually fighting it. all of which God has made us to handle.

So say for a little drink which some may find nothing wrong with (i hate it, but due to family issues with alcohol im intentionally biased. The deception comes into play when it becomes "im stressed. Do i have a drink to relieve some stress or do i talk to God and relieve some stress?" or "i wanna have a good time. Do i have a drink and get that feel good buzz or do i find joy in the things of God?" When you find yourself having to choose, or even making that comparison to put them on the same level, you've been deceived.


Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: malthumb on October 07, 2009, 09:52:21 AM
for those of you who feel that you can do things in "moderation" with the term moderation being the key, do you also believe that this applies to things such as marijuana, meth, and or coke?

Where do you guys draw the line with things that are hazardous to your body? 

Jeremy,

You are comparing things that have SOME positive benefit in moderation to things that have NO apparent positive benefits, at least as used.  A glass of wine a day has been shown to reduce the amount of plaque in the arteries and thereby reduce the incidence of heart disease.  The medicinal benefits of marijuana are still up for debate but are AT BEST a remedial benefit (you already have a problem and it helps manage it) versus the preventive benefits of wine.

Similar with methamphetamines, NOT in the crystal form and cocaine, not in crack or nose powder form.

So a lot of the evils of the product are buried in the human failings of how they are used and abused.

Things used correctly and in moderation are not by and of themselves bad.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 07, 2009, 10:04:19 AM
I know i have no right to be in the bass room... lol.. but, i have a right to my opinion and yall gon geddit! LOL!

Honestly, as enticing as singing and playing "wordly music" as my church calls it, I would not do it! I would not waste nor share ANY of my talent (not that i'm some great, talented chick, but ya know...) on the world. Yes, the pay is better and the face time can benefit the career of a 'professional' musician... but why take something the Lord gave you and give it back to the world?

The bible does say, "what does it profit a man to gain the WHOLE world, and loose his soul." Playing for secular, wordly, ungodly (whatever you wanna call it) artists is nothing but trying to gain the world... and in the end, what did it profit you? a few extra hundred dollars that you could have sat at a desk or fried some chicken for?! It aint worth it! The bible also says, "How can two walk together except they agree." which would lead me to question the Life lived by the "christian."

Why would you want to take you and your sanctified self to play for an artist that does not serve the same God you do... Yes, everyone is a Christian, everyone "loves God" but not everyone is serving Him.. not everyone knows Jesus to be their savior. Whether they are "devil worshiping" or not, you know the type of tree by the fruit it bears... I'll choose the tight life NOW and walk too holy rather than live a loose life now and not make it to Heaven later... i'd rather do too much than not enough.

But i'm not trying to tell anyone what to do... lol... not tryna be bossy and stuff... I'm just giving opinion; and sorry it was sooooooooooooo long! lol  :-*


So I guess weddings are off the radar for you? BTW, I'm playing at a wedding this weekend!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 07, 2009, 10:13:20 AM

So I guess weddings are off the radar for you? BTW, I'm playing at a wedding this weekend!!!!! ;D ;D ;D

I played one in August. The song list? Here And Now, Sweet Love, Ribbon In The Sky, Jesus You're The Center of my Joy, The Prayer, Jesus Is Love.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 07, 2009, 10:22:25 AM
My wife has asked me to play to her, and she's doesn't want to hear gospel music.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on October 07, 2009, 10:43:55 AM
Man out of the loop for a day, far behind the conversation.

Okay I caught up as best I could, so forgive me if I repeat somethings.

I love the fact that the dialog has remained Civil and that Scripture has been utilized.

I wanted to add to the conversation.  The BIBLE makes a distinction between WINE & "Strong Drink"
Most time when people talk about Drinking they are not speaking of a bottle of Pinot Noir, they are
at the bar ordering Long Island Ice Tea's LOL!  So I can see how one would make the argument that Wine
in moderation is okay.  I reserve judgement on the matter of Wine.  But Strong Drink on the other hand,
believers shouldn't be drinking the strong stuff.  It's primary purpose is to get you drunk.

Someone mentioned the case of Paul writing to Timothy and I think that's a perfect scripture to point to.
Paul said "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."
1 Timothy 5:23 Obviously Paul was speaking about drinking wine because of an ailment Timothy had.  Not because
Timothy was hanging with friends and wanted to get a "slight" buzz.

I also believe that if you feel the liberty to drink wine, you shouldn't put it out there for other believers
who think you ought not to stumble. 

Romans 14:21
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby * * thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

--------
FenderJazzMan,

You know I love ya to the end br'er.  But I have to disagree in that it's not our job, to point out another brother's area of weakness.

My Charge when I was licensed as a Preacher came from 2 Timothy 4 - Amplified.

 1I CHARGE [you] in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, Who is to judge the living and the dead, and by (in the light of) His coming and His kingdom:
    2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

    3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,
-----------------------------------------
The Holy Spirit will convict, but God also sent the 5 Fold for the edification of the body of Christ.
Now I understand that this needs to be done in LOVE, but I can't shrink back when I see a brother who claims to be a believer walking in sin, I pray, and I ask for wisdom of how to address the issue.  Floaded is right in that alot of times people miss how to do things in alignment with how the Church established order.


Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 07, 2009, 10:53:18 AM


([url]http://williamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/istock_can-of-worms.jpg[/url])


-J




OK.... that's NAAAAAAAAAAAstEEEEEEEE!!! i just tasted my dinner from Christmas 1999!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 07, 2009, 10:56:56 AM

So I guess weddings are off the radar for you? BTW, I'm playing at a wedding this weekend!!!!! ;D ;D ;D

LOL!!! no, i have actually sang a secular song "Ave Maria" by Beyonce, at a wedding a few weeks ago... but I'm saying i would not further a career in secular music... and get paid and become a double platinum artists in the R&B industry. I'm sure you're thinking, she's contradicting herslef"... but i'm saying i would not make a habit of singing/performing in the secular industry.  I'm SOLED OUT FOR JESUS lol!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 07, 2009, 11:09:23 AM

FenderJazzMan,

You know I love ya to the end br'er.  But I have to disagree in that it's not our job, to point out another brother's area of weakness.

I agree with you Torch but what I was talking are people who set out to point out someone's sins everytime they see someone. Im talking about the "Brow Beaters". The ones who come off like they are passing judgement. The ones who don't excersize  the same grace, mercy and forgiveness that was given them.

I had a friend who was cheating on his wife. When I found out I just let him know I was aware and that he had a decision to make. It was a good conversation but everytime I saw him I didnt feel the need to bring it up all the time. He knew I was aware which made him accountable.

I just don't care for people who push their issues onto others. Everyone has their own tolerance level for their surroundings.

Im definitely not a believer in turning a deaf ear to sin.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 07, 2009, 11:56:50 AM

a lot of the evils of the product are buried in the human failings of how they are used and abused.

Things used correctly and in moderation are not by and of themselves bad.


interesting point.

I'm still a bit skewed on the acceptance of one before the other mainly because one is a plant that grows typically without any aid from man (LOL!) and the other needs to be concocted in order to be made potent.

I think it's interesting that some of our (our meaning christian, not one denomination) are based solely off of what is "legal" and what is "illegal" or it's usage.







Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 07, 2009, 12:29:23 PM
I think it's interesting that some of our (our meaning christian, not one denomination) are based solely off of what is "legal" and what is "illegal" or it's usage.
to quote a well known poster:
Maybe friend chicken should be illegal..hmmmmmm :D

lol.


i get what u saying though. but the majority of the world is like that. some things have to specifically be made illegal because people dont have the sense to know its wrong independent of that. i guess thats why we are a "peculiar people" because the law isnt our sole guide of our morality.

now its not illegal to, lets say, tell someone a few choice words about themselves and because its not, people go right ahead and do such. but we are to operate in love and build one another up and not tear down, because thats the right thing to do.

Right and wrong doesnt = legal and illegal, respectively. however a good portion does fall into the correct category and i think christians agree that it goes beyond that even as we respect the law. where the dispute comes in at is which things in the legal category fall under the "wrong" umbrella.

My wife has asked me to play to her, and she's doesn't want to hear gospel music.

you better tell her ur a church musician and play that 1-4-5 progression like u love her. and when things get really steamy, go into a shout run. word on the grapevine is that preaching chords in Ab really gets the ladies going. lol.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 07, 2009, 12:33:14 PM
you better tell her ur a church musician and play that 1-4-5 progression like u love her. and when things get really steamy, go into a shout run. word on the grapevine is that preaching chords in Ab really gets the ladies going. lol.

Dude I almost fell out of my chair when I read this ;D ;D ;D!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 07, 2009, 12:37:18 PM
LOL!!! no, i have actually sang a secular song "Ave Maria" by Beyonce, at a wedding a few weeks ago... but I'm saying i would not further a career in secular music... and get paid and become a double platinum artists in the R&B industry. I'm sure you're thinking, she's contradicting herslef"... but i'm saying i would not make a habit of singing/performing in the secular industry.  I'm SOLED OUT FOR JESUS lol!!!

Ummmm.....Ave Maria is not at all secular. Its about the Virgin Mary(Mother of Jesus).  Second of all...Not by Beyonce. That song was composed by Josquin des Prez in the 1480's. Ave Maria translates Hail Mary.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 07, 2009, 12:46:37 PM
Dude I almost fell out of my chair when I read this ;D ;D ;D!!!!!!!

ME TO!!! lol!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 07, 2009, 01:24:13 PM
I think it's interesting that some of our (our meaning christian, not one denomination) are based solely off of what is "legal" and what is "illegal" or it's usage.

Throughout civilized history, we have tried to "legislate" morality. Murder is a crime, so is theft. Two of the Ten Commandments. Our tax system favors married couples over single people because marriage is held in high moral regard. Prohibition was an unsuccessful attempt at addressing the consumption of alcohol, we even in that we legislate how old you must be to legally consume it.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 07, 2009, 01:42:01 PM
Ummmm.....Ave Maria is not at all secular. Its about the Virgin Mary(Mother of Jesus).  Second of all...Not by Beyonce. That song was composed by Josquin des Prez in the 1480's. Ave Maria translates Hail Mary.

I sang the Beyonce verzion of the song.. i suppose it's on on  of her cd's.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 07, 2009, 04:20:38 PM
Ummmm.....Ave Maria is not at all secular. Its about the Virgin Mary(Mother of Jesus).  Second of all...Not by Beyonce. That song was composed by Josquin des Prez in the 1480's. Ave Maria translates Hail Mary.

So when Beyonce sang it on TV showing off the hips with that crazy outift, she actually sexied up a spiritual/sacred song?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 07, 2009, 05:14:37 PM
yup
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on October 07, 2009, 11:55:14 PM
So when Beyonce sang it on TV showing off the hips with that crazy outift, she actually sexied up a spiritual/sacred song?

Y-to-the-es!!!

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on October 08, 2009, 06:58:30 AM
I dont have the energy to go into another of these lol.  Yet, to address a lil bit:

You know what? sometimes it is our job.  Some ppl arent convicted by premarital sex or gossip, but is it not our job to address it?  A liquor store?  Seriously?  Mind you there are many Christians that dont have the Holy Ghost.  Just throwin that out there.

Why was this post SO funny to me?  :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on October 08, 2009, 07:17:58 AM
Although i don't drink alcohol, I sure steam my shrimp with it though, along with some butter, old bay seasoning, and dried herbs. ;D ;D ;D For the ones who don't cook, the alcohol gets cooked off, so just flavor is left, not the alcohol. I will say this though, for medicinal purposes, alcohol does have some good qualities. My great grandmother lived to be in her 90s and had a shot of alcohol a day. She said it kept her body cleaned out. Right now in my cabinet is a mixture of moonshine, honey and grapes that my wife's grandmother gave to us to use as cough syrup. That stuff really works. One table spoon before going to bed, and when you wake up, you're not coughing anymore.

It's the honey, doc. It's a natural expectorant (been taking it myself daily, lately; it's brought back the Bass in my voice).


Although honey and some Everclear........? ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 08, 2009, 07:38:45 AM
I actually did some research and the ave maria thats on her cd is an original song.  She just randomly says ave maria in the chorus. It has nothing to do with the song. its just there. Its not a gospel song. Its not even "inspirational".  The version she sang on the BET awards is the original though. That actually was a sacred song.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 08, 2009, 07:56:35 AM
I actually did some research and the ave maria thats on her cd is an original song.  She just randomly says ave maria in the chorus. It has nothing to do with the song. its just there. Its not a gospel song. Its not even "inspirational".  The version she sang on the BET awards is the original though. That actually was a sacred song.

Right... the song on the CD actually made no sense!!! I hated singing it... it's hard to get into a song you cant understand... Picture this, Sicilly, 1924 (LOL) seriously, the words are have nothing to do with Ave Maria, which, translated to English means, Hail Mary. Why would a girl that finds heaven on earth (her man i suppose) say Hail Mary... I guess the girl is Catholic... IDK.. I thought Beyonce was Methodist... so why is she hailing Mary? IDK...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 07:59:21 AM
It's the honey, doc. It's a natural expectorant (been taking it myself daily, lately; it's brought back the Bass in my voice).


Although honey and some Everclear........? ;D

I tried to make my own cough syrup with everclear, didn't work. Maybe its my age, and I have no experience with making it, but I'll call up the seasoned folks and they'll hook it right up. ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 08:00:54 AM
Just to pose another question, if everyone on this earth were mute, and couldn't speak but could hear music, would we have various genres of music? That means, no lyrics to the music. :o
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 08, 2009, 08:10:16 AM
people would start signing to music.  :o :o He signs so beautifully. Then you would really need front rows seats at a concert. Choirs wouldn't work though. They'd always be hitting each other.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 08, 2009, 08:11:06 AM
Just to pose another question, if everyone on this earth were mute, and couldn't speak but could hear music, would we have various genres of music? That means, no lyrics to the music. :o

Good question!!!!!! IDK... Music is the Universal Language so...... Multicultural patrons and American patrons would not have the "common ground" we have now.. you can go to Japan and say Beyonce and the Japanese would know WHAT and WHO you are talking about. LOL
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 08:19:14 AM
Good question!!!!!! IDK... Music is the Universal Language so...... Multicultural patrons and American patrons would not have the "common ground" we have now.. you can go to Japan and say Beyonce and the Japanese would know WHAT and WHO you are talking about. LOL

Why no common ground? Beyonce wouldn't exist as she does in the main stream today. We would be mute, so know one would ask who we are talking about.

people would start signing to music.  :o :o He signs so beautifully. Then you would really need front rows seats at a concert. Choirs wouldn't work though. They'd always be hitting each other.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 08, 2009, 08:33:30 AM
Why no common ground? Beyonce wouldn't exist as she does in the main stream today. We would be mute, so know one would ask who we are talking about.

True... I was saying right now we have common ground, but if there were no music, there would not be much common ground
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: malthumb on October 08, 2009, 08:47:42 AM
Right... the song on the CD actually made no sense!!! I hated singing it... it's hard to get into a song you cant understand... Picture this, Sicilly, 1924 (LOL) seriously, the words are have nothing to do with Ave Maria, which, translated to English means, Hail Mary. Why would a girl that finds heaven on earth (her man i suppose) say Hail Mary... I guess the girl is Catholic... IDK.. I thought Beyonce was Methodist... so why is she hailing Mary? IDK...

Regarding the bold blue.....stab in the dark....

I seem to recall reporting of a miracle in Italy where a young girl claimed she was visited by the Virgin Mary.  Could that have been in 1924 and therefore the reference for the Beyonce' song?  I'll have to check that out.

A quick wiki check tells me that I'm off by 7 years, a country, and 2 kids :D  It was reported that in 1917 ,a vision of the Virgin Mary appeared to three children in Fatima, Portugal

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 08:48:18 AM
True... I was saying right now we have common ground, but if there were no music, there would not be much common ground

There would still be music, just no lyrics. I asked my question because, if we take away the lyrics from so called "secular" music, is it still considered "secular?" The same for everyother genre.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 08, 2009, 08:55:58 AM
Regarding the bold blue.....stab in the dark....

I seem to recall reporting of a miracle in Italy where a young girl claimed she was visited by the Virgin Mary.  Could that have been in 1924 and therefore the reference for the Beyonce' song?  I'll have to check that out.



OMG.. R U SERIOUS? if you are..... LOL.. I am SOOOOOO cracking up right now!!! You must not watch the Golden Girls... LOL... i was just being silly with the "1924"...

BUT... I doubt that chile was visited by anyone other than a demon! LOL... Mary is up in Heaven, not tryna visit an Earthling!!! I know if i were in Heaven, I would not come back here for nothing! lol. And, Miracles are only carried out by God through Jesus
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: phbrown on October 08, 2009, 08:56:24 AM
Various patterns and movements would eventually define the style.

Such as the 1-4-5 which is common in gospel songs. When a person would hear that then they would know what type of music it is. There fore secular music and gospel could possibly still stay separated.


Or worse there would be no music in the church ... I don't wanna think about such a thought.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 09:10:18 AM
Various patterns and movements would eventually define the style.

Such as the 1-4-5 which is common in gospel songs. When a person would hear that then they would know what type of music it is. There fore secular music and gospel could possibly still stay separated.


Or worse there would be no music in the church ... I don't wanna think about such a thought.

1-4-5 is also in what we consider blues. :-\
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 09:14:18 AM
I used to have this belief that I would only play gospel music until I went to college and began to take music classes. One class in particular, world music, open my eyes and thoughts to look outside the box. I realized that we put labels on music only because of lyrics. I used to think that the sitar sounded terrible until I began to listen to music that incorporated this instrument. In this class is where I began to think outside the box and not limit myself to just one style, (i didn't use genre for a specific reason) but to appreciate all forms of music. There are some styles that I just will not listen to, but I appreciate to craft of these individuals.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 08, 2009, 09:20:16 AM
Thats what im going through now in my music history class. I learned alot about music since i started this class. The class forces you to leave your box and open your mind.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 09:24:54 AM
Thats what im going through now in my music history class. I learned alot about music since i started this class. The class forces you to leave your box and open your mind.


You'll appreciate music a whole lot more when you're finished with the class.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 08, 2009, 09:44:43 AM
Just to pose another question, if everyone on this earth were mute, and couldn't speak but could hear music, would we have various genres of music? That means, no lyrics to the music. :o

you would still have various musical styles and that would define the genres of music, which is basically how it is defined now EXCEPT for gospel. Music is defined into many different groups, including gospel, which is further subdivided into all the previous groups once again. example. u go into a store and u see Jazz, Rock, Rap, and Gospel, which is further divided into Gospel Jazz, Gospel Rock, Gospel Rap (all the aforementioned groups). so why not put the Gospel Jazz into the Jazz section, duh. So i play a song and say its Jazz. "oh no thats not Jazz, its Gospel Jazz." that doesnt even make sense. How can you make one group by the style of music but the other group by what its about?

so with no words this genre of "Gospel" will not exist at all. Because its not a legitimate style category at all. it would actually probably be called "Mixed Music".

so we are now calling this site learnmixedmusic.com
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 08, 2009, 09:56:39 AM
What about the fact that certain genres of music emphasize certain instruments? Consider, for example, the song "I Will Always Love You." It was (I believe) written and first recorded by Dolly Parton but made very, very famous by Whitney Houston. If you played the instrumental versions of both songs they would have the same melody but a different sound. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 10:01:30 AM
you would still have various musical styles and that would define the genres of music, which is basically how it is defined now EXCEPT for gospel. Music is defined into many different groups, including gospel, which is further subdivided into all the previous groups once again. example. u go into a store and u see Jazz, Rock, Rap, and Gospel, which is further divided into Gospel Jazz, Gospel Rock, Gospel Rap (all the aforementioned groups). so why not put the Gospel Jazz into the Jazz section, duh. So i play a song and say its Jazz. "oh no thats not Jazz, its Gospel Jazz." that doesnt even make sense. How can you make one group by the style of music but the other group by what its about?

so with no words this genre of "Gospel" will not exist at all. Because its not a legitimate style category at all. it would actually probably be called "Mixed Music".

so we are now calling this site learnmixedmusic.com

With no words, no genre would exist. For example, blues is only blues because of the words that are sung, not the progressions. the 1-4-5 which is primarily blues, that can be altered, is played in gospel, r&b, blues, country, etc. Alicia Keys song, "Unbreakable" has the exact same progression that a quartet song sung by a well known gospel group. The gospel group came out with the song first, if I'm not mistaken. I can't remember the name of the song or the group, but I guarantee, without the words being sung on either song, you wouldn't differentiate between the songs. Alicia's is considered R&B because of the words, where as the gospel version is gospel because of the words. I'll try to find the gospel song so that you can see what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 10:09:06 AM
Some lyrics to the gospel version are:

"I belive I'll run on, see what the end's going to be"

If some know, help me out with the artist.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 10:19:50 AM
Found the gospel group, 7 sons of soul, "Run On"

This is what I found on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsOUbCb2t20 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsOUbCb2t20)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 08, 2009, 10:45:51 AM
For a topic like this, it wouldn't be right not to mention sampling.... ;)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 08, 2009, 11:08:24 AM
With no words, no genre would exist. For example, blues is only blues because of the words that are sung, not the progressions. the 1-4-5 which is primarily blues, that can be altered, is played in gospel, r&b, blues, country, etc.

i disagree with that 90%. its not the progressions that make a genre. based on simple combinatorics, a finite number of elements chosen from a finite set of elements will have a finite number of combinations. the only way to make infinite combinations is to make the number elements chosen variable AND infinite.

meaning from only 12 roots there are a limited number of progressions available to use (u cant come up with a NEW progression, it already exists) there are progressions that are bound to be used across genres. in fact thats a given. 1-4-5 exists across every genre. its not the progression that determines the genre of music, its the style in which its played (timing, chord quality, type of instruments). Are you telling me a 1-4-5 in blues is going to sound exactly like a 1-4-5 in country and you wont be able to tell the difference until somebody starts singing over it? thats quite absurd.

but thats the thing, only Gospel has that quirk about it (the 10% i do agree). The only "genre" that does that. Most jazz music is instrumental but u know its jazz. and they play a lot of the same progressions that other music plays, but im sure u dont need someone singing "This is jazz, uh huh" over the track before u know what it is. But most "gospel" stuff i wouldnt know what it was until i heard words. (well actually i would know what it was and put it into is proper genre that wasnt Gospel)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 08, 2009, 11:28:24 AM
I believe what defines a certain genre is the "feel" of the music. Say for instance you take one song from every genre that is in C maj. C maj is C maj. What separates them all is the WAY its played. So, in my opinion, words dont define genre. Look at the few songs that Whitney Houston recorded that was previously recorded by Dolly Pardon. Same words, but different feel.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 12:06:19 PM
i disagree with that 90%. its not the progressions that make a genre. based on simple combinatorics, a finite number of elements chosen from a finite set of elements will have a finite number of combinations. the only way to make infinite combinations is to make the number elements chosen variable AND infinite.

meaning from only 12 roots there are a limited number of progressions available to use (u cant come up with a NEW progression, it already exists) there are progressions that are bound to be used across genres. in fact thats a given. 1-4-5 exists across every genre. its not the progression that determines the genre of music, its the style in which its played (timing, chord quality, type of instruments). Are you telling me a 1-4-5 in blues is going to sound exactly like a 1-4-5 in country and you wont be able to tell the difference until somebody starts singing over it? thats quite absurd.

but thats the thing, only Gospel has that quirk about it (the 10% i do agree). The only "genre" that does that. Most jazz music is instrumental but u know its jazz. and they play a lot of the same progressions that other music plays, but im sure u dont need someone singing "This is jazz, uh huh" over the track before u know what it is. But most "gospel" stuff i wouldnt know what it was until i heard words. (well actually i would know what it was and put it into is proper genre that wasnt Gospel)

You've missed everything that I'm saying. I've been saying that progressions don't make the genre, its the words. That's why I brought up the example about alicia keys and the 7 sons of soul song. Both songs have the same progression, but are in different genres because of the words. BTW, theoretically, the 1-4-5 in blues is the same and the 1-4-5 in country, the difference comes into play with wording and like you stated timing. All I'm saying is that genre's are only categorized by lyrics. We as musicians have strictly limited certain progressions to the various styles. Its rare to hear major 7ths in country, but who said that it can't be. A few years ago, you didn't hear neo soul in gospel, but that new James Fortune song, "I wouldn't know you" is a banging gospel song with a neo soul style applied to it. BTW, there are more than just 12 roots in music. Indian music specifically Raga, has 22 intervals in its octave.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on October 08, 2009, 12:14:03 PM
Yes, 'feel' is a large part of any genre. And there is a distinct 'Gospel' accent.

But, that being said, most commercial CCM or Urban Gospel music has been derived from the popular music styles of the time, maybe lagging 20-30 years behind those times...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on October 08, 2009, 01:24:09 PM
I tried to make my own cough syrup with everclear, didn't work. Maybe its my age, and I have no experience with making it, but I'll call up the seasoned folks and they'll hook it right up. ;D
You'll have to, somehow, share that hook up. ;) 8)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 08, 2009, 01:45:41 PM
BTW, there are more than just 12 roots in music. Indian music specifically Raga, has 22 intervals in its octave.

i specifically meant western music. but if u heard that would u know its indian music or do u need words?

BTW, theoretically, the 1-4-5 in blues is the same and the 1-4-5 in country, the difference comes into play with wording and like you stated timing.


the difference comes in timing and rhythm, types of instruments, as well as chord choice, because some chords are closely associated with styles of music (same coupling goes with some instruments)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1awu0Kib7b4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1awu0Kib7b4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM-bzQkyJ1o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM-bzQkyJ1o)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YciWtd7Kpb8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YciWtd7Kpb8)

so now the lyrics and progressions are the same. if these three were instrumentals, are u telling me you couldnt tell they were different styles of music? Yes they are all gospel, actually the second one would be classified as CCM, not gospel, but whatever, but thats only because of the lyrics. but without lyrics we cant still classify them as distinct styles of music and categorize them accordingly.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: bass_mann1 on October 08, 2009, 01:45:53 PM
My personal opinion, God created music, man added the words, I have played all types of music,and I like most types. I will not play any that offends my spirit, I also agree "don't work,don't eat", every man will have to decide on his own,trough his own heart and spirit, hopefully consulting God first

continue to be blessed
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 08, 2009, 01:59:42 PM
i specifically meant western music. but if u heard that would u know its indian music or do u need words?
..... but without lyrics we cant still classify them as distinct styles of music and categorize them accordingly.

In taking World Music in school, I can now pick it out, but before gaining the appreciation for music that I now have, I would have said that it was a mess.

That's my whole point. Please reread my previous posts thoroughly and you'll see that we agree. Without lyrics, its just music.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 08, 2009, 02:29:04 PM
Mary is up in Heaven, not tryna visit an Earthling!!!

When was Mary taken to heaven by translation in the bible ?/? ?/? ?/?

The only 2 people in the bible that were taken to heaven by translation were Enoch and Elijah.  Other than that the bible states in Ecclesiastes 9:4-5( For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

And in 1 Thessolians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 08, 2009, 04:08:56 PM
but without lyrics we cant still classify them as distinct styles of music and categorize them accordingly.
that was actually a typo. it should read "we CAN still classify them".  it is still music. but we will always find something to classify something by, thats with anything including music. that how our brains work.

but we'll agree to disagree for some parts of this. thats cool.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Christlike1984 on October 09, 2009, 08:18:11 PM
When was Mary taken to heaven by translation in the bible ?/? ?/? ?/?

The only 2 people in the bible that were taken to heaven by translation were Enoch and Elijah.  Other than that the bible states in Ecclesiastes 9:4-5( For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

And in 1 Thessolians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


  2 Cor.5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Christlike1984 on October 09, 2009, 08:31:17 PM
The Heavens, the Earth and everything within them were created by God for his good pleasure.  This includes music,I believe that our thoughts and intentions come into play when we are wondering whether we are glorifying God or not.  Take into account the first recorded act of worship.  Abel gave a better sacrifice.  For one because the text says that it was his best(The firstlings of his flock AND the fat thereof).  With Cain it just said he brought fruits of the ground, nothing special about it.  So are we doing something just to do it, just to fulfill OUR needs?  Or are we doing it to please the Lord and Glorify him.  It is also important to note the story of David going to retrieve the Ark.  Even though David wanted the presence of the Lord returned to Israel( which was a good thing), he went about it the wrong way. Putting it on a cart for one, instead of the levites carrying it with the specially prepared poles made for it.  Not only should worship be done, it should be done in spirit and in truth according to God's requirements.  Not just what we want to offer him.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Christlike1984 on October 09, 2009, 08:34:56 PM
Another text supporting that when believers die they go to be with Christ. I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me. (Phil. 1:20-26)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 10, 2009, 07:57:14 AM
Happy Sabbath all,

Before I go into my response I'd like to say that I'm not lashing out in anger or trying to upset anyone, however I feel it is pertinent that we know the word that we may grow closer to God.   I'm not against people, but I am against things that aren't the truth according to the word of God.  Now with that lets dive in.

Please excuse my internet tone if I sound harsh, I type only out of love.

  2 Cor.5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
This doesn't say anything about when you die you go straight to heaven, nor do the texts around it, so I'm not sure what you're trying to show with this text.

As a matter of fact if you read verse 1-7 leading up to your quoted verse you can clearly see that Paul is referring to not being content with the possessions and things of this world but rather wanting to be with God.  You can't just take one verse and have it mean whatever you want it to, you have to read all the surrounding text and any references to get a true understanding.

Here are verses 6-7
Quote
6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
When we are at HOME in our bodies (i.e being happy with this world and what it has to offer) we are AWAY from the Lord. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with going straight to heaven after you die.  As a matter of fact if you can find 1 text that specifically say that's what happens (and you wont) I will give youe $10K via paypal.

Another text supporting that when believers die they go to be with Christ. I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me. (Phil. 1:20-26)

In regards to this passage I think it's very important to realize that the bible does NOT contradict itself.  All text work together and it was paul himself who said "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (II Tim 3:16)".

With that being said this very same man that you're quoting (Paul) as saying we're going to go to heaven as soon as we die wrote the following in 1 Thessalonians 4:16

Quote
16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

So now the question I ask you is, why would Paul say one thing and then turn around and contradict himself?  The answer is that he did not and I beg that you read the word for yourself to understand  that as the bible says "STUDY (key word being STUDY) to show thyself approval.

Yes we shall go to heaven, but it will be when christ returns and the dead in christ shall rise.  It will be a glorious event and I honestly can't wait to see all of those who I haven't seen in so long as we travel to heaven together.  What a day it will be saints!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Christlike1984 on October 11, 2009, 10:13:25 PM
I see your point J.  But my question is, why would Paul say to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord; Then go on to say that when Christ returns we will not  only be in bodies but new incorruptible bodies 1 Cor.15:51-56?  So if we shall recieve new bodies but he also says to be absent from our bodies is to be present with the Lord. doesn't that mean our spirit goes to be with the Lord.  Even so in the Gospel Jesus made the point that God is the God of the living not the dead Matt 22:29-32.  When he was transfigured before the Apostle's who appeared before him taling to him?  We can say it was just a vision but niether the Apostles nor Christ said as such.  Just something to think about.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 12, 2009, 08:57:45 AM
I see your point J.  But my question is, why would Paul say to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord; Then go on to say that when Christ returns we will not  only be in bodies but new incorruptible bodies 1 Cor.15:51-56?  So if we shall recieve new bodies but he also says to be absent from our bodies is to be present with the Lord. doesn't that mean our spirit goes to be with the Lord.  Even so in the Gospel Jesus made the point that God is the God of the living not the dead Matt 22:29-32.  When he was transfigured before the Apostle's who appeared before him taling to him?  We can say it was just a vision but niether the Apostles nor Christ said as such.  Just something to think about.

Great points! Now lets dig in.

First you are absolutely right that our spirits will go to be with the Lord, I'm not against that, however i think it's the TIME that when our we will go to be with God.

I'll start off by quoting the text that you mentioned (1 Cor. 15:51-56).  I personally LOVE this text because it lets us know what we are to expect on with the second coming of Christ.

Quote
1 Cor. 15:51-56
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed? 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[a]
 55"Where, O death, is your victory?
      Where, O death, is your sting?" 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

Verse 52 stats that the dead will be raised "imperishable and we will be changed".  Please note that the dead are raised changed already so if they are already in heaven why would they need to be raised changed?  That method just wouldn't add up for God.  For him to send his saints down from heaven back into the grave only to rise again to be with him.

Verse 51 states that we will not all sleep but will be changed however we must note that it states in verse 52 when this will happen.  It is said to happen at the "last trumpet".

Now to understand the last trumpet we must dive into the book of Revelations which is filled with symbolisms which are answered through the bible as well as end time Prophecy. In Revelations there is a three-fold view of history from apostolic days until the end of time.  This being the Seven Churches, the Seven Seals, and the Seven trumpets.

Quote
Rev 11:15-19
 15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
   "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
      and he will reign for ever and ever." 16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
   "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
      the One who is and who was,
   because you have taken your great power
      and have begun to reign.
 18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
   The time has come for judging the dead,
      and for rewarding your servants the prophets
   and your saints and those who reverence your name,
      both small and great?
   and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
 19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

The sounding of the 7th trumpet is the end of this world as we know it and the second coming of Christ.   Judgement begins in heaven
 and in order for God to judge the dead, the dead in christ must rise first. 

Now lets take a look at your mention of Matt 22:29-32   however i'm going to extend the quote back a couple of verses so we can get what Jesus was talking about
Quote
Matt 22:25-32
25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

 26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

 27And last of all the woman died also.

 28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

 29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

This all starts with the Sadducees who were trying to corner Jesus because they didn't believe in the resurrection nor life after death.  This is  why they ask about who's wife the woman will be after death. 

So now we must look at if we as really ever die since Jesus as confirmed that there will be a resurrection. Now the question is why did he state that he is the God of the living and not the dead?

If we look at John 11:25 Jesus answers this directly for us.

Quote
John 11:25
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Anyone that believe in Christ shall not spiritually die.  So if Christ has confirmed that there will be a resurrection and has also confirmed that those that believe in him shall not die then he has stated that God is the God of those that are living (those that believe and have accepted him wether they be dead or alive).

Now as for those that don't accept him we know that their physical body and their souls shall perish in Hell.

Matthew 10:28 Jesus states
Quote
(Mat 10:28 NASB)  "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul;but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Paul clarifies the resurection for us a little bit clearer as well in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15

Quote
(1 Th 4:13 NASB)  But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve, as do the rest who have no hope.
(1 Th 4:14 NASB)  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
(1 Th 4:15 NASB)  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.

The dead in christ are merely sleeping awaing for Christ to return again.




Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 12, 2009, 10:38:51 AM
First you are absolutely right that our spirits will go to be with the Lord, I'm not against that, however i think it's the TIME that when our we will go to be with God.

dont have any scripture for this...but i conceptualize it as in the realm of the spirit the notion of time doesnt exist as it does in this natural realm (could that be why "that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day [2Pet3:8]?) so for the dead going to the Lord is instant, whereas for us, time passes as we live.

The dead in christ are merely sleeping awaing for Christ to return again.

this puts that into perspective. you ever went to bed at night and your alarm clock went off and u like "dang, i JUST laid down". For you because you were sleep, awakening felt almost instantaneous, but in actually a full 8 hours or so had passed. With no consciousness or awareness of time, its instant for you. To go further, think about a coma patient. i think it might be a similar occurrence.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 12, 2009, 11:14:23 AM
dont have any scripture for this...but i conceptualize it as in the realm of the spirit the notion of time doesnt exist as it does in this natural realm (could that be why "that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day [2Pet3:8]?) so for the dead going to the Lord is instant, whereas for us, time passes as we live.

this puts that into perspective. you ever went to bed at night and your alarm clock went off and u like "dang, i JUST laid down". For you because you were sleep, awakening felt almost instantaneous, but in actually a full 8 hours or so had passed. With no consciousness or awareness of time, its instant for you. To go further, think about a coma patient. i think it might be a similar occurrence.

interesting theory, however I would challenge it with this.

Though one day with the lord may be as 1000 years if you're dead on this earth and you haven't been through the resurrection you are still conformed to the boundaries of this world (time).  So if you died in 2000 and it's 2009 you have been dead 9 years and there's nothing that you can do about it.

In regards to the coma patient, even though he doesn't realize that time has passed by, it has.  He wakes up 10 years later and wether he likes it or not it's still 2009 and not 1999 like he remembered.

All the scriptures that speak on the topic all point back to one thing.  A second resurrection where the dead in christ will rise at the sound of the last trumpet.

But let's not to too caught up on it because the right view on the state of the dead will not get you into heaven.  I simply want to make sure that people are reading their bibles in it's entirety.

If anyone can show me in the word where the dead are directly taken to heaven (and it's not an interpretation because interpretations can get us into some serious mess) then I will accept it as I just want to follow the word.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 12, 2009, 12:51:22 PM
interesting theory, however I would challenge it with this.

i know everything ur saying. it wasnt a theory to be proven or disproved. it was a perspective, my perspective into what would be the state of yourself once you die (i dont know, none of us do). i dont think it would be as ur saying "man ive been dead for 1000 years already. when is He coming back?" For the dead, i believe it would seem instant because they have no knowledge of time, and the examples i gave i believe illustrated that concept. I also think these 2 scriptures touch on what im trying to say.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Eccl 9:5

"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Eccl 9:10


In regards to the coma patient, even though he doesn't realize that time has passed by, it has.  He wakes up 10 years later and wether he likes it or not it's still 2009 and not 1999 like he remembered.
does he always realize how much time has passed? he could think it was an hour or so, and it couldve been years. how would u know? you wouldnt, until you woke up (resurrected).

All the scriptures that speak on the topic all point back to one thing.  A second resurrection where the dead in christ will rise at the sound of the last trumpet.
i hope u dont think i was trying to say this was wrong.

If anyone can show me in the word where the dead are directly taken to heaven (and it's not an interpretation because interpretations can get us into some serious mess) then I will accept it as I just want to follow the word.
i also hope u dont think i was trying to say this.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 12, 2009, 01:05:35 PM


does he always realize how much time has passed? he could think it was an hour or so, and it couldve been years. how would u know? you wouldnt, until you woke up (resurrected).
i hope u dont think i was trying to say this was wrong.
i also hope u dont think i was trying to say this.

gotcha!  I agree.  I must've just read if wrong (darn internet).

I don't know if they'll know how long they've been asleep when they rise, but I'm sure they'll find out.

I know for sure that the wicked dead will end up knowing  because they have the 1000 years to be judged so they'll get the word sooner or later.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 12, 2009, 01:07:53 PM
yall still goin at it? ?/? :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 12, 2009, 01:23:52 PM
yall still goin at it? ?/? :D

HAAH.. that's what i was saying. lol.. every time i check the new replies, i'm like... WOW, they've even switched subjects... and i'm not mingling in this one. lol... sending you a PM U...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ssab on October 12, 2009, 01:30:46 PM
What happen! What did i miss? ?/?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 12, 2009, 01:43:59 PM
HAAH.. that's what i was saying. lol.. every time i check the new replies, i'm like... WOW, they've even switched subjects... and i'm not mingling in this one. lol... sending you a PM U...

what you doing with a bass in your avatar?  You trying to get a bunch of guys on here a stroke!  LOL!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 12, 2009, 02:06:44 PM
what you doing with a bass in your avatar?  You trying to get a bunch of guys on here a stroke!  LOL!

HAHAHAHAHA... you stupid. lol
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 12, 2009, 02:07:14 PM
HAAH.. that's what i was saying. lol.. every time i check the new replies, i'm like... WOW, they've even switched subjects... and i'm not mingling in this one. lol... sending you a PM U...

we havent had one of these multi-page, multi-topic threads in a good while. ahhh memories. lol.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 12, 2009, 02:09:27 PM
we havent had one of these multi-page, multi-topic threads in a good while. ahhh memories. lol.

actually, i think they always start with the secular music topic....then we ride that train to the last stop. lol.



what you doing with a bass in your avatar?  You trying to get a bunch of guys on here a stroke!  LOL!

yeah, somebody here probably already playing out of tune.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 12, 2009, 02:12:36 PM
actually, i think they always start with the secular music topic....then we ride that train to the last stop. lol.



yeah, somebody here probably already playing out of tune.

You all dont hang out in the gospel music lounge? threads are always getting hijacked in the lounge. lol

and i'm sorry... lol  ::)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 12, 2009, 02:13:38 PM
yeah, somebody here probably already playing out of tune.

ROFL!!!!!! Speaking of out of tune a minister was "tuning up" during the morning prayer this past sunday at the Baptist church I play at and I promise my man was in the key of C+/-   :D :D :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 12, 2009, 02:32:41 PM
ROFL!!!!!! Speaking of out of tune a minister was "tuning up" during the morning prayer this past sunday at the Baptist church I play at and I promise my man was in the key of C+/-   :D :D :D

oh yeah. the key of C average. i think thats a common soloist key. lol
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on October 12, 2009, 02:39:28 PM
Nothing like a skilled musician who can follow anybody though. I've seen very few guys that can do it. That why I wish I had really studied jazz in a school.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 12, 2009, 02:49:53 PM
I want to take a jazz class at school but, i have to take a sight reading class first.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 12, 2009, 04:21:49 PM
I want to take a jazz class at school but, i have to take a sight reading class first.

I teach at a community college and I play with our Jazz Ensemble. My sight reading has grown by leaps and bounds...mostly because it had to or else they wouldn't let me play! ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 12, 2009, 08:05:00 PM
Yes this has taken a mind of it's own....lol. WHat were we originally talking about anyways? What collor is the best for bass? NO.....Maple or Rosewood fretboard? NO.....Who's the best bass player that plays harmonica? NO.......Which deodorant is best when playing Gospel music? IM LOST!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 12, 2009, 08:25:02 PM
... IM LOST!!!

There's a map for that!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: blacklw234 on October 12, 2009, 11:05:36 PM
Wow!!!!! this thread went from who's the best player in the NBA to What golf clubs do you use....lol...lol. Completely migrated. Good discussions though...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: mark.wise on October 13, 2009, 07:45:18 AM
My little brother, i would like for you to read Daniel the 3rd chapter and tell me why these three Hebrew boys were thrown into the fiery furnace.

I have been a member of LGM for some years and i have never posted ANYTHING, however when i read something like this it is disturbing. My brother, it is NEVER good to mix bitter with sweet.....

There is a reason why lots wife turned into a pillar of salt when she looked backed into Sodom or the club!!!!!!!

I am not rebuking you, i am trying to encourage you, please do not open that door b/c that is not good.

People always say what they think about a situation, what does the BIBLE says about darkness!!!!

I am a Bass player and have been playing for about seven years and not once have i had the mind to play in a environment that's not conducive for me.

God Bless,
Min. Wise
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 13, 2009, 07:54:23 AM
My little brother, i would like for you to read Daniel the 3rd chapter and tell me why these three Hebrew boys were thrown into the fiery furnace.


God Bless,
Min. Wise

That is deep... i never thought to relate that scripture to secular music and christians... my Lord.. thank you for that!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on October 13, 2009, 09:29:27 AM
...
I am not rebuking you, i am trying to encourage you, please do not open that door b/c that is not good.
...

Not every secular door leads to a bad situation. Let's all look at it from this stand point. If the original poster went and played at a tasteful secular gig, ie. jazz luncheon, he may have to opportunity to witness the word of God to a lost soul. So, this is my final statement in regards to playing "secular" music, I'm going to view every opportunity that I play as an opportunity to 1) be a witness for God 2) broaden my musical talent by learning other styles. I'm through with this topic.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 13, 2009, 10:34:53 AM

I am a Bass player and have been playing for about seven years and not once have i had the mind to play in a environment that's not conducive for me.

Im not sure where playing at a club came into this. I was more talking about playing in a non-church service setting. This post was geared towards a Christian musician who plays music as a profession. There are plenty of Christian ,professional bass players who do not just play in a Christian setting. I do not feel that their Christian walk is jeopardized.

John Patittuci is one of those musicians. He IS a Christian. If you have ever seen his videos or see his live performances, he ALWAYS acknowledges God. Majority of his CD's have Christian based songs on them. Yet we see him share the stage with secular artists all the time. Do you feel he's wrong for that? I have never seen him display any questionable behavior. He's representing the Kingdom in what he does.

Let's just say you have a person who is a EMT. One night his unit gets a call for a heart attack victim. When his unit arrives, he (who is a believer) finds out the victim is actually in a night club. Would you look at it and say that it's ok because he is only going in to do his job and leave? As a EMT should he only take calls that are in a Christian setting?

I just think its somewhat odd that as a Christian musician, most people feel that we should limit where we play. But if I were an electrician, It's ok to go into a night club to get paid for fixing a shorted out light switch.

Some people will say that there are spirits carried in certain music (which I also believe). If you look at it, you can say that about anything. Spirits can be carried in an object, persons ,buildings ,etc. For example, some churches operate in the spirit of manipulation just to raise an offering. They always use a story to compel people to give instead of relying on the word to let people know that blessings are scattered all through the Bible that state you will be blessed for your sacrifices through money, praise, time, etc. Its just like how the people in those "Feed the Children" infomercials show you broke down pictures of children just to compel you to send money. Not ALL churches practice this but SOME do. (Excuse my sidebar)

I once heard a preacher say that as a Church musician, our instruments are sacred. He also said that If we ARE a musician who plays music for a living, we should have an instrument that is reserved only for the Kingdom. "Don't bring an instrument into a service that is used for non church services".

All these responses are opinion based. Yes some people have scriptures to back their opinion but everyone's walk will be judged individually and not as a whole. Let's not turn this into one not being more spiritual than another. Its all about choices. God has given us the ability to make choices from the beginning of time. He doesn't even force salvation on us. It's up to us to decide if we want to live for Him or not.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 13, 2009, 10:44:28 AM
Im not sure where playing at a club came into this. I was more talking about playing in a non-church service setting. This post was geared towards a Christian musician who plays music as a profession. There are plenty of Christian ,professional bass players who do not just play in a Christian setting. I do not feel that their Christian walk is jeopardized.

John Patittuci is one of those musicians. He IS a Christian. If you have ever seen his videos or see his live performances, he ALWAYS acknowledges God. Majority of his CD's have Christian based songs on them. Yet we see him share the stage with secular artists all the time. Do you feel he's wrong for that? I have never seen him display any questionable behavior. He's representing the Kingdom in what he does.

Let's just say you have a person who is a EMT. One night his unit gets a call for a heart attack victim. When his unit arrives, he (who is a believer) finds out the victim is actually in a night club. Would you look at it and say that it's ok because he is only going in to do his job and leave? As a EMT should he only take calls that are in a Christian setting?

I just think its somewhat odd that as a Christian musician, most people feel that we should limit where we play. But if I were an electrician, It's ok to go into a night club to get paid for fixing a shorted out light switch.

Some people will say that there are spirits carried in certain music (which I also believe). If you look at it, you can say that about anything. Spirits can be carried in an object, persons ,buildings ,etc. For example, some churches operate in the spirit of manipulation just to raise an offering. They always use a story to compel people to give instead of relying on the word to let people know that blessings are scattered all through the Bible that state you will be blessed for your sacrifices through money, praise, time, etc. Its just like how the people in those "Feed the Children" infomercials show you broke down pictures of children just to compel you to send money. Not ALL churches practice this but SOME do. (Excuse my sidebar)

I once heard a preacher say that as a Church musician, our instruments are sacred. He also said that If we ARE a musician who plays music for a living, we should have an instrument that is reserved only for the Kingdom. "Don't bring an instrument into a service that is used for non church services".

All these responses are opinion based. Yes some people have scriptures to back their opinion but everyone's walk will be judged individually and not as a whole. Let's not turn this into one not being more spiritual than another. Its all about choices. God has given us the ability to make choices from the beginning of time. He doesn't even force salvation on us. It's up to us to decide if we want to live for Him or not.

I agree. But I dont see the point in arguing this, as I dont think "church folks" will ever get it.

When it comes to my actions I am held accountable to God, not a bunch of church people who just wanna be in my business
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on October 13, 2009, 11:31:26 AM
and the topic comes full circle.

I just think its somewhat odd that as a Christian musician, most people feel that we should limit where we play. But if I were an electrician, It's ok to go into a night club to get paid for fixing a shorted out light switch.

u know, there's some folk who would say you helpin them sin by fixing their lights. seriously.

I think when people are trying to prove a point, as well as when they just dont fully understand, they go to the opposite extreme. So when you ask is it ok to play secular music they interpret that as you trying to go on tour with JayZ or 50. Not thinking at all about the jazz band that plays at the restuarant the pastor takes his family to on saturday night. or at the company fundraiser event that plays non offensive music, but not gospel as to take into consideration all employees beliefs (as well as avoid a lawsuit).

Has anyone watched Jimmy Fallon since he has the Roots as his house band? Nothing gospel there, but talented guys playing clean fun music. So someone would say an environment like that is wrong for a christian? A house band for a talk show? nothin but the devil there. (add 1tbsp of sarcasm. stir.)

But its always funny how this argument only applies to music. We'll watch a variety of things on TV, go to many different places on the internet, do different things and go different places on or jobs, but when it comes to music: gospel only!

Everyone has their limits and certain things/places/people should be off limits, but I just say if ur THAT corruptible, you should already be corrupted from your job, tv, and internet, among all the other things in your life.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BassbyGrace on October 13, 2009, 11:34:36 AM
and the topic comes full circle.

u know, there's some folk who would say you helpin them sin by fixing their lights. seriously.

I think when people are trying to prove a point, as well as when they just dont fully understand, they go to the opposite extreme. So when you ask is it ok to play secular music they interpret that as you trying to go on tour with JayZ or 50. Not thinking at all about the jazz band that plays at the restuarant the pastor takes his family to on saturday night. or at the company fundraiser event that plays non offensive music, but not gospel as to take into consideration all employees beliefs (as well as avoid a lawsuit).

Has anyone watched Jimmy Fallon since he has the Roots as his house band? Nothing gospel there, but talented guys playing clean fun music. So someone would say an environment like that is wrong for a christian? A house band for a talk show? nothin but the devil there. (add 1tbsp of sarcasm. stir.)

But its always funny how this argument only applies to music. We'll watch a variety of things on TV, go to many different places on the internet, do different things and go different places on or jobs, but when it comes to music: gospel only!

Everyone has their limits and certain things/places/people should be off limits, but I just say if ur THAT corruptible, you should already be corrupted from your job, tv, and internet, among all the other things in your life.

[/thread]
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 13, 2009, 11:52:37 AM
That is deep... i never thought to relate that scripture to secular music and christians... my Lord.. thank you for that!!!!

This is slightly off topic (like this entire thread. lol) but is the bass in your avatar a Schecter Studio-5? I have one and they are marvelous basses to play.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 13, 2009, 12:06:03 PM
Thats what it looked like to me.  Them schectors are kinda pricey.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 13, 2009, 12:29:37 PM
This is slightly off topic (like this entire thread. lol) but is the bass in your avatar a Schecter Studio-5? I have one and they are marvelous basses to play.

Thats what it looked like to me.  Them schectors are kinda pricey.

Wel guys...  IDK what it is... it's my brother's he is Stix_clgi if you wanna look him up to ask. lol. we had a shed session with some LGMers and i held it for him while he played the drums. We call it the Red Heiffer so IDK if it's a Schecter!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 13, 2009, 12:36:13 PM
But its always funny how this argument only applies to music. We'll watch a variety of things on TV, go to many different places on the internet, do different things and go different places on or jobs, but when it comes to music: gospel only!



Yup. Nobody ever picks on the graphic artist and photographers and such

This is slightly off topic (like this entire thread. lol) but is the bass in your avatar a Schecter Studio-5? I have one and they are marvelous basses to play.


Here is her brother playing it, along with Bassbygrace on Sousaphone, CSedwards on the Fantom, LordLuvr on synth....oh and me attempting to hang with them :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0y-eNoOR3M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0y-eNoOR3M)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Jmack on October 13, 2009, 02:02:25 PM
Im not sure where playing at a club came into this. I was more talking about playing in a non-church service setting. This post was geared towards a Christian musician who plays music as a profession.

actually, the question referred to "gospel musicians" playing "secular music".

Luke 16:13 
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

since this is a public forum and he asked for personal opinions, here's mine. if you are questioning it, then you must have some reservations about it already. i know some people say do what is in your heart to do, but sometimes our heart isn't in the right place. God says seek ye first the kingdom of God...if playing music for Him is what's in your heart, He will provide an opportunity for that. but back to the topic. i say if you're a gospel musician, you play gospel music. otherwise, you're just a musician.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Jmack on October 13, 2009, 02:03:59 PM
haven't quite gotten the whole "quote" thing down.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 13, 2009, 02:22:49 PM

actually, the question referred to "gospel musicians" playing "secular music".

Luke 16:13 
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.



I think you guys are stretching by using that verse. You cant lump all musicians who choose to play secular into such a category, Not everybody is doing this for the love of money.

I really cant believe some of yall are serious

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on October 13, 2009, 02:31:23 PM
I wonder if we will be discussing this in heaven. lol
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 13, 2009, 02:48:44 PM
I always hoped that in heaven God has question and answer sessions. So that we can clear up alot of stuff.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 13, 2009, 03:06:02 PM
8 pages huh?  So has there been any kind of resolve or mutual understanding reached that some of us are going to play other forms of music, or are we going to keep going on (http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y170/IslandRaider/horse1.gif)

Of course this will not be the last thread on this topic.




Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 13, 2009, 03:14:23 PM
I think you guys are stretching by using that verse. You cant lump all musicians who choose to play secular into such a category, Not everybody is doing this for the love of money.

I really cant believe some of yall are serious


Just a quick point.

Serving two masters doesn't have to be "for the love of".  The bible clearly states that anything that is done that does not please God is against him.  

So lets take both sides of hte argument into point.  We don't know what the musician is thinking about or feeling when they're playing jazz or regular R&B, so as long as it isn't something that is not of God is of Satan.  So therefore we can't say much unless we know a persons heart on some of the songs that may initially seem harmless.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: malthumb on October 13, 2009, 03:17:06 PM
I wonder if we will be discussing this in heaven. lol

Of course not.  Y'all secular playin' jokers won't be there.





JUST KIDDING!!!!! 

IF I SHOWED YOU MY SET LISTS YOU'D KNOW THAT    :D ;) :D ;)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 13, 2009, 03:17:16 PM
WOW!!! you all never cease!!!!!!!!!! lol

how about everyone just shake hands an agree to disagree or something. lol
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 13, 2009, 03:44:02 PM
Its whatever. cuz in a month somebody gonna ask the same question. just word it a lil different. and then everybody gonna make the exact same points they made again. The worst part is we know its gonna happen and we participate again anyway.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 13, 2009, 03:46:41 PM
Its whatever. cuz in a month somebody gonna ask the same question. just word it a lil different. and then everybody gonna make the exact same points they made again. The worst part is we know its gonna happen and we participate again anyway.

LL.. we??? i'm staying clear of it next time!!! it struck my interet and i chimed in.. now when i click "show new replies to you rposts" i see this haunting me.. staring at me... freeeeaaaaaking me out!!! LOL!!! but it's nice to se everyone's point of view... it shows how doctrines vary from person to person.. i wish we could all belive and trust the same word of truth... but some people wanna live tight lives, others dont... so, ya know... it is wha it is.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 13, 2009, 04:52:16 PM
I guess I'd better not announce it when I get that gig with Wayne Newton.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 13, 2009, 06:22:18 PM
I guess I'd better not announce it when I get that gig with Wayne Newton.

Wayne's firing me? :o
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Kelz-Da-Basshead on October 13, 2009, 11:07:15 PM
Maybe Its because im young but, who's wayne newton. 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on October 14, 2009, 06:24:48 AM
Maybe Its because im young but, who's wayne newton. 

No 'maybe' about it. BTW, Google is your friend.



You have heard of Google, right? ::) :D

Jus' jokes, youngin'.  ;) :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 14, 2009, 09:25:49 AM
Maybe Its because im young but, who's wayne newton. 

Wayne Newton is an entertainer long known for his Las Vegas shows. In fact, I think that's all he's ever done. He had a brief cameo apprearance in the movie "Vegas Vacation", one of a series of films that featured the Griswold family (Dad was played very effectively by Chevy Chase)...

Sorry, I am a vat of useless knowledge. ;)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on October 14, 2009, 10:08:50 AM
Wayne's firing me? :o
Wayne let you go two weeks ago. You only thought you were playing at the gig. You didn't notice that other bass player on stage.  ;D You were not coming out the house system. Next time don't use your First Act amp for a monitor.   :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 14, 2009, 10:54:00 AM
Wayne let you go two weeks ago. You only thought you were playing at the gig. You didn't notice that other bass player on stage.  ;D You were not coming out the house system. Next time don't use your First Act amp for a monitor.   :D

LOL.LOL.LOL.
 :D :D :D

Well, at least I still have my Perry Como gig.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 14, 2009, 01:40:24 PM
LOL.LOL.LOL.
 :D :D :D

Well, at least I still have my Perry Como gig.

Well Paul Anka and Neil Sedaka have been begging me to work with them, but I'm leaning more towards Peaches and Herb.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on October 14, 2009, 03:15:31 PM
Well im banking on a gig with Tom Jones!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 14, 2009, 03:23:13 PM
Well im banking on a gig with Tom Jones!

On the real, I am a Tom Jones fan.  I recently watched a concert of his, and that dude had a ridiculous band.  Had a brother on bass and he was KILLIN' it.  And guess what he played.  Yep, a Fender Jazz. 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on October 14, 2009, 03:58:21 PM
Well Paul Anka and Neil Sedaka have been begging me to work with them, but I'm leaning more towards Peaches and Herb.

Which "Peaches"? He's on about his fifth or sixth one! ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 14, 2009, 03:58:57 PM
Which "Peaches"? He's on about his fifth or sixth one! ;D

HAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on October 14, 2009, 04:23:18 PM
Which "Peaches"? He's on about his fifth or sixth one! ;D

Don't matter which one, as logn as she's good and ripe knowhatimean. 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jlgadson on October 15, 2009, 06:37:49 PM
this is why drinking is not allowed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqHOE1gD4WQ&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqHOE1gD4WQ&feature=player_embedded)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 15, 2009, 07:01:33 PM
This is crazy!!! it's not even funny.. it's sad.. the dude could not even stand up!!! while he was on the ground he should have said a prayer! I mean good grief... this is sad..
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: hands5 on October 28, 2009, 02:50:47 PM
LOL!

Back onto the topic of secular music I think you have to know what are your boundaries are as mentioned earlier.

HOWEVER playing for some "gospel" artist can be just as bad as a bad secular artist if the spirit isn't right, so just because they're singing "church" songs doesn't mean you're in a good position.


I would play in a neo soul band if it weren't promoting devilish acts through the lyrics of the motive behind the music.

true.But if you gonna play neo soul,then you gonna have to put the Callowhill down,and getcha self a Precision Doc ! lol.....just kidding
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on October 28, 2009, 06:16:55 PM
OMG...lol.. if i see this thread one mo a-GIN!!!!!!!!!! LORD!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on October 28, 2009, 06:19:28 PM
OMG...lol.. if i see this thread one mo a-GIN!!!!!!!!!! LORD!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( ;D

Thats what I said. :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on October 29, 2009, 04:32:12 PM
yall are a MESS..LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: SavnBass on November 11, 2009, 07:51:30 AM
I say if you are a professional musician that puts things in a different light.. but the bottom line is always IMO going to be how you carry yourself.. wherever you are.. You could be a gospel musician .. only playing gospel music.. yet still jave a questionable walk in other areas. IMO it is all about whether or not you are covered or is your light shining through the dark?

If you were accused of being a Christian.. would there be enough evidence to convict you?

We all know the standards set..

That's all that matters.. the rest is opinion......
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on November 11, 2009, 09:32:09 AM
[creepy kid voice]it's baaaccccckkkkkkkkkkkk[/creepy kid voice]
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: phbrown on November 11, 2009, 12:04:43 PM
[creepy kid voice]it's baaaccccckkkkkkkkkkkk[/creepy kid voice]

ROFL!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on November 11, 2009, 01:40:08 PM
(http://esthersunday.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/AuntEsther.jpg)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 11, 2009, 01:44:23 PM
I say if you are a professional musician that puts things in a different light.. but the bottom line is always IMO going to be how you carry yourself.. wherever you are.. You could be a gospel musician .. only playing gospel music.. yet still jave a questionable walk in other areas. IMO it is all about whether or not you are covered or is your light shining through the dark?

If you were accused of being a Christian.. would there be enough evidence to convict you?

We all know the standards set..

That's all that matters.. the rest is opinion......

can you explain what you mean by that?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: SavnBass on November 11, 2009, 07:01:56 PM
can you explain what you mean by that?

Covered up... as in Lk 8:16
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 12, 2009, 07:17:37 AM
OMG.....CAN WE PLEASE NAIL THIS THREAD TO THE CROSS... ON A HILL FAR AWAY STOOD AN OLD RUGGED CROSS!!! PLEASE JESUS.... TAKE THIS THREAD AWAY! PLEASE LORD... SEND THIS THREAD TO THE PITS!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on November 12, 2009, 07:38:27 AM
OMG.....CAN WE PLEASE NAIL THIS THREAD TO THE CROSS... ON A HILL FAR AWAY STOOD AN OLD RUGGED CROSS!!! PLEASE JESUS.... TAKE THIS THREAD AWAY! PLEASE LORD... SEND THIS THREAD TO THE PITS!!!!

LOL!!!! You are a MESS!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now stop singing Beyonce...hahahah
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 12, 2009, 07:43:18 AM
LOL!!!! You are a MESS!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now stop singing Beyonce...hahahah

THIS DAGG ON THREAD IS A MESS!!! LORD HAB MERCE! I feel like casting this thread out like a demon! this thread is like the omen.. it's like Emily Rose.. it's like that Jonby demon seed from the Unborn... OMG.. this thread is like Jason and Freddy....  >:( >:( >:( lol
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BassbyGrace on November 12, 2009, 08:07:11 AM
chchchchch....ahahahahahah.....chchchch chchch.....ahahahahah

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Abgl7SAY1P_RsM:http://scrapetv.com/News/News%2520Pages/Entertainment/Images/jason-voorhees-firday-13th-remake.jpg)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 12, 2009, 08:30:01 AM
chchchchch....ahahahahahah.....chchchchchchch.....ahahahahah

([url]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Abgl7SAY1P_RsM:http://scrapetv.com/News/News%2520Pages/Entertainment/Images/jason-voorhees-firday-13th-remake.jpg[/url])


HAHAHAHAH!!!! LORD... why am i scared at work... with these bright lights!!! LOL! Precious LAWD take my hand, NOW!

HEY BBG!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on November 12, 2009, 08:42:33 AM
chchchchch....ahahahahahah.....chchchchchchch.....ahahahahah

([url]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Abgl7SAY1P_RsM:http://scrapetv.com/News/News%2520Pages/Entertainment/Images/jason-voorhees-firday-13th-remake.jpg[/url])



 :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: CallowHill on November 12, 2009, 04:01:51 PM
You guys do realize that now I'm gonna have to check in once a week and bump this, don't you?  Heheheh...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on November 12, 2009, 04:33:17 PM
chchchchch....ahahahahahah.....chchchchchchch.....ahahahahah

([url]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Abgl7SAY1P_RsM:http://scrapetv.com/News/News%2520Pages/Entertainment/Images/jason-voorhees-firday-13th-remake.jpg[/url])


So very appropriate for tomorrow! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'm about to pull out my DVD collection and start watching.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: amtaylor on November 13, 2009, 05:13:19 AM
Hi My name is Skip - I play for my church praise team when I am not on the road or in the studio. I don't feel there is bad music - just bad intent. A knife becomes bad when it is use for a negative purpose. What is your intent?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 13, 2009, 06:37:49 AM
You guys do realize that now I'm gonna have to check in once a week and bump this, don't you?  Heheheh...

HEY... my brother and I are ALWYAS in Philly... I think right outside of North Philly.. In Landsdowne (sp)... SO... where are ya? do you shed?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on November 13, 2009, 08:46:57 AM
Hi My name is Skip - I play for my church praise team when I am not on the road or in the studio. I don't feel there is bad music - just bad intent. A knife becomes bad when it is use for a negative purpose. What is your intent?
So what if you trip up while carrying the knife and stab yourself. ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 13, 2009, 10:53:48 AM
So what if you trip up while carrying the knife and stab yourself. ;D

Well, this question takes CAREFUL analysis!!! CAREFUL ANALYSIS!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: arthur59 on November 13, 2009, 11:27:07 AM
I know i have no right to be in the bass room... lol.. but, i have a right to my opinion and yall gon geddit! LOL!

Honestly, as enticing as singing and playing "wordly music" as my church calls it, I would not do it! I would not waste nor share ANY of my talent (not that i'm some great, talented chick, but ya know...) on the world. Yes, the pay is better and the face time can benefit the career of a 'professional' musician... but why take something the Lord gave you and give it back to the world?

The bible does say, "what does it profit a man to gain the WHOLE world, and loose his soul." Playing for secular, wordly, ungodly (whatever you wanna call it) artists is nothing but trying to gain the world... and in the end, what did it profit you? a few extra hundred dollars that you could have sat at a desk or fried some chicken for?! It aint worth it! The bible also says, "How can two walk together except they agree." which would lead me to question the Life lived by the "christian."

Why would you want to take you and your sanctified self to play for an artist that does not serve the same God you do... Yes, everyone is a Christian, everyone "loves God" but not everyone is serving Him.. not everyone knows Jesus to be their savior. Whether they are "devil worshiping" or not, you know the type of tree by the fruit it bears... I'll choose the tight life NOW and walk too holy rather than live a loose life now and not make it to Heaven later... i'd rather do too much than not enough.

But i'm not trying to tell anyone what to do... lol... not tryna be bossy and stuff... I'm just giving opinion; and sorry it was sooooooooooooo long! lol  :-*
Good point,but I have a question,why would you want to take you and your sanctified self and work for an employer that does not serve the same God you do.... : :-\
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: malthumb on November 13, 2009, 12:26:15 PM
HEY... my brother and I are ALWYAS in Philly... I think right outside of North Philly.. In Landsdowne (sp)... SO... where are ya? do you shed?

What he does is make some of the slammin-est bass guitars you've ever seen so that guys like Jeremyr can shed......


......and so that guys like me can walk around muttering "I don't need another bass....I don't need another bass.....I don't need another bass....but that Callowhill sure is swee.....I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BASS"
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on November 14, 2009, 01:14:16 AM
What he does is make some of the slammin-est bass guitars you've ever seen so that guys like Jeremyr can shed......


......and so that guys like me can walk around muttering "I don't need another bass....I don't need another bass.....I don't need another bass....but that Callowhill sure is swee.....I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BASS"

tell me about it. if i play the lottery to get a Callowhill to play ONLY at church, will God bless my ticket? and i just realized that the bass player for The Roots plays Callowhills. (lately been playing the MDM5). so every night watchin the Jimmy Fallon show, i get G.A.S. lol.

hey Tim, whats up with ur website?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 14, 2009, 09:13:49 PM
Good point,but I have a question,why would you want to take you and your sanctified self and work for an employer that does not serve the same God you do.... : :-\

Are you asking ME this question or are is it like a question for us to think about? Cuz I dont have a boss that serves another God... My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on November 16, 2009, 03:25:55 PM
My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.


Are you saying that if someone is methodist, then they may NOT be saved? So someone is only saved based off of the denomination they belong?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on November 16, 2009, 03:34:19 PM
Good point,but I have a question,why would you want to take you and your sanctified self and work for an employer that does not serve the same God you do.... : :-\
Majority of us either work for OR have worked for an unbeliever. So, I don't understand that statement. As I believer, I should only accept employment from another believer? Im a barber so should I only cut the heads of believers?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: malthumb on November 16, 2009, 03:43:58 PM
Majority of us either work for OR have worked for an unbeliever. So, I don't understand that statement. As I believer, I should only accept employment from another believer? Im a barber so should I only cut the heads of believers?

This actually gets to the root of the issue.  In a perfect world, everyone would be a believer.  But since the world is not perfect, we all must at some time or another interact with non-believers.

The issue is the extent to which we interact and how we ourselves are impacted by the interaction.

Me, personally, I know for a fact that I can interact musically with non-believers and not shake my faith.  Therefore, I am very comfortable playing secular music.  I'm also wise enough to know how to avoid playing music that is vulgar or demeaning to other rational people.


When we have jobs that help sustain our existence and the well-being of our families, we don't always have the luxury of determining whether or not to be in the company of non-believers.  When we have music as a vocation or a hobby or a ministry, we usually have an additional degree of freedom with regards to whom we want to associate and how.  Some choose to play secular (count me among them) some do not.  That is your preference that I will respect.  Please respect mine.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on November 16, 2009, 11:28:33 PM
My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.

And you know this person's heart and status with God for sure? How?

 ?/?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 17, 2009, 10:05:31 AM
Are you saying that if someone is methodist, then they may NOT be saved? So someone is only saved based off of the denomination they belong?

NO!!! That's not what I'm saying at all! I said "she's Methodist" because I was not sharing the actual church name - I figured I'd share a clue.  ;) 

And you know this person's heart and status with God for sure? How?

 ?/?

The lack of dedication, actions and lifestyle tell me that clearly, she goes to this church because of ITS status... not because she knows, or wants to know Jesus as her savior; not because she's trying to live a life that is holy and acceptable unto God; she likes to say, "I go to such and such church." she thinks it's prestigious (sp probably dead wrong lol).

that's all I'm saying Arthor and Betnich... 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 17, 2009, 12:30:18 PM
For those who don't mind playing on secular gigs, do what you do, I ain't trippin' but please, please as you argue your point of view.  Don't utlize the work analogy, working for a secular employer, and playing secular music are not comparative.

However, the argument would hold water if you compared, something someone else deemed unacceptable, with a job your held unacceptable.

Biblically if you feel that it's within your liberty spiritually to play whatever you deem okay, do it ... That is between you and the Holy Spirit,  but you also should not flaunt that liberty before believers who do not have your liberty.

Now can we return to arguing over how modes should be approached? :)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 17, 2009, 12:42:37 PM
For those who don't mind playing on secular gigs, do what you do, I ain't trippin' but please, please as you argue your point of view.  Don't utlize the work analogy, working for a secular employer, and playing secular music are not comparative.

However, the argument would hold water if you compared, something someone else deemed unacceptable, with a job your held unacceptable.

Biblically if you feel that it's within your liberty spiritually to play whatever you deem okay, do it ... That is between you and the Holy Spirit,  but you also should not flaunt that liberty before believers who do not have your liberty.

Now can we return to arguing over how modes should be approached? :)

 I think that should go both ways
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 17, 2009, 12:57:40 PM
I think that should go both ways

Note I placed "Biblically" @ the start of the part you highlighted.  The Bible gives us a picture of one and note neccesarily the other.
As a minster I am called to serve other believers, part of what God has entrusted me to do, is encourage,  exhort, preach, teach, undergird, advise, restore, lead..... the list goes on.  It would be impossible for me to fulfill my call, if I simply looked at areas that are permissable yet not expedient, in many lives, and not speak.  So when I respond on the boards, its not only for the sake of those who are actively involved in the conversation, but those who just watch the dialog.

So while I respect your position on the matter, we have to approach this discussion not just from a musical perspective, but from the perspective of every action of a believer. 

If it went both ways as you suggest, there would be no need  for the Church.  There would be no need for the 5-fold ministry component.  And ultimately everyone would do what's right in their own sight.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: malthumb on November 17, 2009, 03:45:52 PM
For those who don't mind playing on secular gigs, do what you do, I ain't trippin' but please, please as you argue your point of view.  Don't utlize the work analogy, working for a secular employer, and playing secular music are not comparative.

However, the argument would hold water if you compared, something someone else deemed unacceptable, with a job your held unacceptable.


Biblically if you feel that it's within your liberty spiritually to play whatever you deem okay, do it ... That is between you and the Holy Spirit,  but you also should not flaunt that liberty before believers who do not have your liberty.

Now can we return to arguing over how modes should be approached? :)

As much as I understand what you say there in the BOLD text, I do think that this unfairly limits the discussion, debate, argument, or whatever we're calling this thread.  Most people can only relate or compare to things that are within their life experience.  Most people spend more time on their job than anywhere else.  Therefore, most of their experiences with the secular world will be through interactions on or related to the job or people they are exposed to through the job.  That makes choice of job as relevant as choice of music.

I guess one could ask if it is proper to eat at an establishment where the proprietors or those serving were not Christian.  That would actually be even more basic, since it gets into what you are comfortable taking into your body and whether or not it is touched by holy or unholy hands.  But how many of us ever take the time to try to know this?  I stand in admission that I am not one who seeks this information.  And given my propensity for Thai and Chinese food, it's probably safe to say that I eat at a lot of establishments where the owners and the servers are non-Christian.  This is where trust in humankind has value as a Christian trait.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 17, 2009, 06:05:34 PM
Again, Malthumb...  I understand, and respect the perspective of others who chose to play secular music.
I for one don't think you should throw the baby out with the bath water.  I think over the years my stance on the board has been one of it's not for me, because XYZ.

As I was trying to point out in the last post, I can only talk from the Bible, and since the Bible doesn't speak of to play or not to play.  I will not build a trench, and start a war at this matter.  The reason I say that the work scenario doesn't fit, what we consider secular is such a western way of thinking.  In some cultures if you are Christian it is in every fiber of your being, so if you are a waiter, you wait tables as unto the Lord.

Our culture has been very succesful in taking God & segregating him to Church. If I were a mailman, police officer, pilot, waiter I can do all these things as unto the Lord, and not compromise who I am.  There are event songs that are not Church songs, that I could play and not compromise who I am.  No song comes to mind, right now.  But I think the disconnect enters the discussion when we utilize the word secular and it equals bad. Secular  simply means seperate from religion.  As a believer, I should never be seperate from what I believe, therefore I shouldn't make a practice of participating in things separate from what I believe.   What makes a song a song?  The Lyrics.  So, the  question would be can I play/sing a song that doesn't necessarily glorify God? Yes/No/Maybe.  So when I chime into these discussions its always from the perspective of you shouldn't listen, nor play a song with lyrics contradictory to a believers lifestyle.  That's my stance, however, I don't think less of any believer that doesn't believe like I do.

You do however, bring up a interesting point about the food, and its also covered in the scriptures.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 17, 2009, 06:14:11 PM
Again, Malthumb...  I understand, and respect the perspective of others who chose to play secular music.
I for one don't think you should throw the baby out with the bath water.  I think over the years my stance on the board has been one of it's not for me, because XYZ.

As I was trying to point out in the last post, I can only talk from the Bible, and since the Bible doesn't speak of to play or not to play.  I will not build a trench, and start a war at this matter.  The reason I say that the work scenario doesn't fit, what we consider secular is such a western way of thinking.  In some cultures if you are Christian it is in every fiber of your being, so if you are a waiter, you wait tables as unto the Lord.

Our culture has been very succesful in taking God & segregating him to Church. If I were a mailman, police officer, pilot, waiter I can do all these things as unto the Lord, and not compromise who I am.  There are event songs that are not Church songs, that I could play and not compromise who I am.  No song comes to mind, right now.  But I think the disconnect enters the discussion when we utilize the word secular and it equals bad. Secular  simply means seperate from religion.  As a believer, I should never be seperate from what I believe, therefore I shouldn't make a practice of participating in things separate from what I believe.   What makes a song a song?  The Lyrics.  So, the  question would be can I play/sing a song that doesn't necessarily glorify God? Yes/No/Maybe.  So when I chime into these discussions its always from the perspective of you shouldn't listen, nor play a song with lyrics contradictory to a believers lifestyle.  That's my stance, however, I don't think less of any believer that doesn't believe like I do.

You do however, bring up a interesting point about the food, and its also covered in the scriptures.


I  typed all that out and didn't conclude.. There are songs that a Christian can play and  not compromise their walk.  There are vocations that Christians can work at and not compromise their walk.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: malthumb on November 17, 2009, 06:41:20 PM
Torch7,

Glad you clarified your position.  Especially your definition / understanding of the word "secular".  I think a lot of the emotion on this topic comes from people interpreting it as "secular = bad".  I think your definition is closer to the way I at least think of it.  I look at secular as not being based in religion, as opposed to being apart from it.  The difference is probably splitting hairs.  And as you state, I steer away from songs where the lyrics are scandalous or degrading.  I must admit, that has not always been the case, but it certainly is now.

Funny how you mentioned event songs.  One day we were in the music room trying to add some new selections for the Praise Team and we started playing "I'll Take You There" by the Staple Singers.  Pastor just happened to be in the building and came in and shut us down.  Told us he would not go for us playing that in the church.  You woulda thought we were playing "Super Freak".  So then we started playing "Lean On Me".  He went into a long dissertation on how although it was an inspirational song, and maybe a song we could do at an event, he didn't want to hear it in a service.  Fast forward a few months.....He comes to me and tells me about this song he'd heard on the radio that he couldn't get out of his head and wanted me to teach it to the Praise Team.  He had a date already set because it fit with a sermon he had been planning.  It was "I Will Bless The Lord At All Times" by Joe Pace.  Of course, you probably already realize that the music under that song is a direct lift of "I'll Take You There".  Lyrics do make a difference.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 17, 2009, 06:48:37 PM
My bad that was a typo, I meant to say "even" not "event", but the point is still the same. 
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Shame218 on November 17, 2009, 08:36:31 PM
Are you asking ME this question or are is it like a question for us to think about? Cuz I dont have a boss that serves another God... My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.


No this is just a general question,I remember one time years ago I turend in my paper work to my boss and on the bottom of it I wrote "in jesus name" the next day he called me into the office and chwed me out for that.

So what's the difference? ?/?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 17, 2009, 08:38:24 PM
No this is just a general question,I remember one time years ago I turend in my paper work to my boss and on the bottom of it I wrote "in jesus name" the next day he called me into the office and chwed me out for that.

So what's the difference? ?/?

why did you write that on your work?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: DWBass on November 18, 2009, 06:59:08 AM
Religious connotations at work= no no! I did that once (used God Bless You All) during the Xmas holiday and got chewed out as well. The reasoning was that there are different 'types' of religious folks and some may be offended.



By the way, I'm Methodist.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: SavnBass on November 18, 2009, 09:14:38 AM
Again, Malthumb...  I understand, and respect the perspective of others who chose to play secular music.
I for one don't think you should throw the baby out with the bath water.  I think over the years my stance on the board has been one of it's not for me, because XYZ.
As I was trying to point out in the last post, I can only talk from the Bible, and since the Bible doesn't speak of to play or not to play.  I will not build a trench, and start a war at this matter.  The reason I say that the work scenario doesn't fit, what we consider secular is such a western way of thinking.  In some cultures if you are Christian it is in every fiber of your being, so if you are a waiter, you wait tables as unto the Lord.
Our culture has been very succesful in taking God & segregating him to Church. If I were a mailman, police officer, pilot, waiter I can do all these things as unto the Lord, and not compromise who I am.  There are event songs that are not Church songs, that I could play and not compromise who I am.  No song comes to mind, right now.  But I think the disconnect enters the discussion when we utilize the word secular and it equals bad. Secular  simply means seperate from religion.  As a believer, I should never be seperate from what I believe, therefore I shouldn't make a practice of participating in things separate from what I believe.   What makes a song a song?  The Lyrics.  So, the  question would be can I play/sing a song that doesn't necessarily glorify God? Yes/No/Maybe.  So when I chime into these discussions its always from the perspective of you shouldn't listen, nor play a song with lyrics contradictory to a believers lifestyle.  That's my stance, however, I don't think less of any believer that doesn't believe like I do.
You do however, bring up a interesting point about the food, and its also covered in the scriptures.

I'll give you an example from my band.. we have musicians  who were not always Christians.. but they were raised with music.. it is what they do Both are qualified to teach music and one is a fully qualified engineer.. but they had always played in the secular music world.. until one got saved..then through him his wife got saved.. they began playing for one of the ministries in my church.. (We are multi cultural..) and basically were told that they could not play for the church as long as they played secular music.. but again.. this is what they do.. so.. in order for them to play for the church and utilize their gifts for GODS glory.. they have to give up their livelihood? I don't think so...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 18, 2009, 09:32:05 AM
I'll give you an example from my band.. we have musicians  who were not always Christians.. but they were raised with music.. it is what they do Both are qualified to teach music and one is a fully qualified engineer.. but they had always played in the secular music world.. until one got saved..then through him his wife got saved.. they began playing for one of the ministries in my church.. (We are multi cultural..) and basically were told that they could not play for the church as long as they played secular music.. but again.. this is what they do.. so.. in order for them to play for the church and utilize their gifts for GODS glory.. they have to give up their livelihood? I don't think so...

Was the music they played clean or was it vulgar?

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on November 18, 2009, 09:34:12 AM
Why am I posting this? I know this thread will never end, but here it goes:

Colossians 3:22-4:1

Torch, BTW, I agree people have associated "secular" with being "bad."
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on November 18, 2009, 10:52:57 AM
i once played Jackson 5's "I'll Be There" at a family function. am i going to hell? lol.

also note, people who want to go to music school, many schools wont have you learn ONLY gospel material. Which is weird because there are many churches that require a music degree to be an MD. go figure!!!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on November 18, 2009, 11:45:27 AM
I'll give you an example from my band.. we have musicians  who were not always Christians.. but they were raised with music.. it is what they do Both are qualified to teach music and one is a fully qualified engineer.. but they had always played in the secular music world.. until one got saved..then through him his wife got saved.. they began playing for one of the ministries in my church.. (We are multi cultural..) and basically were told that they could not play for the church as long as they played secular music.. but again.. this is what they do.. so.. in order for them to play for the church and utilize their gifts for GODS glory.. they have to give up their livelihood? I don't think so...

I think we may have something close to this situation in our congregation...pro musicians who attend, but are prevented from playing because of gigs or their lifestyle. But that is our Pastor's decision.

     Meanwhile our praise band is limited to just piano and drums, while the same singers vie for solos on their songs (I was told that one singer had to have one song to sing lead on each week). I tried to say something like 'hey, the congregation knows this song, let's all sing the verses together to get them involved rather than have solos on verse 1 and 2' but that wasn't well-received.

Interestingly, the leadership has started to invite some of these 'disqualified' to sing solos, but they still can't join the Music Ministry...

?/?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: arthur59 on November 18, 2009, 12:29:51 PM
i once played Jackson 5's "I'll Be There" at a family function. am i going to hell? lol.

also note, people who want to go to music school, many schools wont have you learn ONLY gospel material. Which is weird because there are many churches that require a music degree to be an MD. go figure!!!
you can't win for loseing!!! :'(
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on November 18, 2009, 12:34:15 PM
For those who don't mind playing on secular gigs, do what you do, I ain't trippin' but please, please as you argue your point of view.  Don't utlize the work analogy, working for a secular employer, and playing secular music are not comparative.

I compare the two because I'm looking at this from the standpoint of a gospel musician who plays music as a living. As a church musician, would I be wrong if I played secular (clean) music to keep food on the table? In this recessive time some of us can just rely on our musical skills to gain employment. I have friends in this situation. All they know is music. In these times people arent just handing out good playing jobs so It only seem right to seek a job with the skills we currently have. I read somewhere that in these times, self employment is the best route to take. Take what skills you have and create work. I know this is slightly changing directions but i feel it still falls under the same subject.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 18, 2009, 12:44:16 PM
I still wanna know why this only applies to music. Should I not be allowed to be a the church photographer if I make a living taking pictures that are not religious? whats the difference?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on November 18, 2009, 01:09:06 PM
I still wanna know why this only applies to music. Should I not be allowed to be a the church photographer if I make a living taking pictures that are not religious? whats the difference?
My thoughts exactly. Why is this principal only applied to music?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on November 18, 2009, 02:08:54 PM
My thoughts exactly. Why is this principal only applied to music?

Some people feel that they are holier than thou. I'm gonna provide for my family regardless of what anyone else thinks. I use discretion when picking my employment, but if I was a truck driver and could only get a job driving for Budweiser, I would definitely do it.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on November 18, 2009, 02:40:17 PM
My thoughts exactly. Why is this principal only applied to music?

because in many peoples eyes, preaching and music are the only viable ministries.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on November 18, 2009, 09:22:30 PM
i once played Jackson 5's "I'll Be There" at a family function.

I just learned to play that!  :)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on November 18, 2009, 09:50:05 PM
I still wanna know why this only applies to music. Should I not be allowed to be a the church photographer if I make a living taking pictures that are not religious? whats the difference?

And the church bookkeeper, cleanup crew, maintenance, groundskeepers, etc....

Add me to the truth sayers...
:)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 19, 2009, 02:13:59 PM
Still waiting for an answer....... :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on November 19, 2009, 02:38:17 PM
I still wanna know why this only applies to music. Should I not be allowed to be a the church photographer if I make a living taking pictures that are not religious? whats the difference?
Same difference. You wouldn't make money off of photo shoots for playboy. Would you? :D The difference is what you are promoting. Nothing wrong with doing good.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: SavnBass on November 19, 2009, 05:31:05 PM
Was the music they played clean or was it vulgar?

No it was Latin music.. some love ballands.. dance stuff... but nothing "out there" these folks wouldn't do that kind of music...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 20, 2009, 12:35:18 AM
I still wanna know why this only applies to music. Should I not be allowed to be a the church photographer if I make a living taking pictures that are not religious? whats the difference?

Quick Question, did you guys actually my post?

Okay here is your answer.  It doesn't only apply to music.

1.)  Like I stated in the post, what makes a Songs a Song is lyrics.  Take any Classical Music Course, and the professor will verify my last statement.
2.)  The word secular simply means, separate from religion.

So, when we speak of secular music being a problem, for believers, it has to do when it separates or is contradictory to your beliefs.  Like mentioned earlier, I don't see a problem with a believer playing music that doesn't compromise the integrity of his walk.

No back to the work analogy.   (See mystery man's post) If you don't feel like reading it.. let me summarize...
I don't see a problem being a Christian who takes photographs... but I see a huge problem with a Christian taking photographs that a pornographic.

Ultimately, what I started my post off with, was "It's between you and the HOLY SPIRIT"....   

ddwilkins,  I feel the "Holier than thou...." comment was a bit far fetched from the tone of this conversation. 

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 20, 2009, 12:55:35 AM
I'll give you an example from my band.. we have musicians  who were not always Christians.. but they were raised with music.. it is what they do Both are qualified to teach music and one is a fully qualified engineer.. but they had always played in the secular music world.. until one got saved..then through him his wife got saved.. they began playing for one of the ministries in my church.. (We are multi cultural..) and basically were told that they could not play for the church as long as they played secular music.. but again.. this is what they do.. so.. in order for them to play for the church and utilize their gifts for GODS glory.. they have to give up their livelihood? I don't think so...

Again, let me start out by saying... "It's between that individual and the Holy Spirit".. now that I got that out of the way.

Would you feel the same if someone wanted to be a "Praise Dancer", but they were also a Stripper?
How about if they wanted to preach, but they were a devout, Hindu or Muslim?
Should a Gangster Rapper be allowed, to lead the Choir?

These are rhetorical questions, no right or wrong answers...  Just trying to give a different perspective, as to why some Church leaders might, not allow certain people to hold positions in their congregation.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 20, 2009, 01:15:37 AM
Again, let me start out by saying... "It's between that individual and the Holy Spirit".. now that I got that out of the way.

Would you feel the same if someone wanted to be a "Praise Dancer", but they were also a Stripper?
How about if they wanted to preach, but they were a devout, Hindu or Muslim?
Should a Gangster Rapper be allowed, to lead the Choir?

These are rhetorical questions, no right or wrong answers...  Just trying to give a different perspective, as to why some Church leaders might, not allow certain people to hold positions in their congregation.


He said that they were playing clean secular music. So why do you guys always go to the extreme and use examples like porn photos, stripper dancing and Tupac when where on the level of baby photos, Ballet and Miles Davis? In case you havent noticed, we arent talking about vulgar music, but the church still has a problem with it.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on November 20, 2009, 08:07:54 AM
Quick Question, did you guys actually my post?

Okay here is your answer.  It doesn't only apply to music.

1.)  Like I stated in the post, what makes a Songs a Song is lyrics.  Take any Classical Music Course, and the professor will verify my last statement.

ddwilkins,  I feel the "Holier than thou...." comment was a bit far fetched from the tone of this conversation. 



I totally agree with what you stated in statement #1 because I previously said that in a previous post in the conversation many pages ago. Now as far as me saying "Holier than thou," I stand 100% behind that because that's how some poster's comments come across. They be posting their doctrine, or closed minded comments, versus being open with their conversation. With you being a minister, I can tell that you are about winning souls for Christ because I don't see where you would judge someone for what they are doing, but would try to lead them from negative things. Alot of times, we don't see that with ministers. They tend to talk down to people because of their sin, but not love the person. We all know that God is about love, and regardless of what we do, he still loves us. He doesn't love the sin, but the person is who is loved. With that said, there may be instances where some things may seem far fetched, but reading something via the internet can be misleading.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: phbrown on November 20, 2009, 08:09:02 AM

Should a Gangster Rapper be allowed, to lead the Choir?



I wonder if Snoop Dogg was to write a gospel song how would it turn out ......
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on November 20, 2009, 09:51:48 AM
He said that they were playing clean secular music. So why do you guys always go to the extreme and use examples like porn photos, stripper dancing and Tupac when where on the level of baby photos, Ballet and Miles Davis? In case you havent noticed, we arent talking about vulgar music, but the church still has a problem with it.

I defined "SECULAR" twice as being that which separates from religion.  Take it how you like.   You got two posts mixed, FenderJazzGuy, (who happens to be a friend of mines, who I respect, as a man, and as a believer, so please don't get it twisted, this is simply conversation.) posted, he would play clean music, to keep food on the table, the comment that I quoted, didn't say clean music.  He simply said, that professional musicians would not be allowed to play at the church.  So that's why I posted the second question.  Again, I said it is Rhetorical, rhetorical questions are designed to make one think.  It seems that on posts when trying to prove points, people go to extremes, on both sides.

ddwilkins, I feel you, however, the argument could go both ways.  Words like "Holier than thou" can be used as a defense.  If no-one ever stood for Holiness, this world would be akin to Sodom and Gomorrah... Not that to play or not to play has to be that extreme, its what is at the heart of the believer that is important.  If I am coming across as a "Holy Roller" to anyone on the board, it's not my intention.... I know my "Farts stink"  :)  I know that outside of His grace, I am nothing.  My own righteousness, is as a bloody maxi-pad.

Fortunately, the standard that I preach, is not mines... but HIS.   And in this context, (Playing Secular Music) I am not preaching, about the music itself, but what can separate us from the beliefs we should hold dear.

Last Post I promise...

You all be blessed.





Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on November 20, 2009, 10:39:54 AM
He said that they were playing clean secular music. So why do you guys always go to the extreme and use examples like porn photos, stripper dancing and Tupac when where on the level of baby photos, Ballet and Miles Davis? In case you havent noticed, we arent talking about vulgar music, but the church still has a problem with it.
With the porn photos I'm being sarcastic. Just to show there are limits for Christians. If all these things were bad we might as well turn off the tv and make our own communities.  ;D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on November 23, 2009, 03:59:13 PM
This topic is just meant to get different views on the subject. Sometimes we may not agree with some ones view but it should still be respected. We all may be on different roads but we all have the SAME destination.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: BigFoot_BigThumb on November 23, 2009, 07:50:12 PM

(http://usera.imagecave.com/webloafer/please.jpg)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: MyVirtue on November 25, 2009, 10:13:58 AM
([url]http://usera.imagecave.com/webloafer/please.jpg[/url])



PLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAASE!!!! PLEASE!!!! PLEASE!!!! Burn this thread with fire Lord... PLEASE!!! Jesus, GOD, HOLY SPIRIT!!! why dont ya help us out!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 25, 2009, 01:31:57 PM
With the porn photos I'm being sarcastic. Just to show there are limits for Christians. If all these things were bad we might as well turn off the tv and make our own communities.  ;D

My problem is that most church people go to those extremes, but they arent being sarcastic :D

as for building our own communities I'm surprised some of the "sanctified" folks haven't done that, so they wouldn't have to be in the world. :D

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on November 25, 2009, 04:15:58 PM

as for building our own communities I'm surprised some of the "sanctified" folks haven't done that, so they wouldn't have to be in the world. :D


Some groups have tried that, but the spirit of the world moves right along with them...
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on November 25, 2009, 04:17:56 PM
([url]http://usera.imagecave.com/webloafer/please.jpg[/url])



Maybe it's time for a lock on this thread???
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on November 25, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
Maybe it's time for a lock on this thread???

Why? If one doesent like the thread, they dont have to open it.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on November 25, 2009, 04:32:10 PM
But it keeps popping up on my 'replies' page....maybe we could have the option to unsubscribe from individual threads???
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: arthur59 on December 01, 2009, 09:40:55 AM
Well, I think......... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D

just jiving!!!!

Have a bless day everyone,in Jesus name.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: betnich on December 01, 2009, 01:04:42 PM
{stirring pot}

How about a thread on Secular artists doing Gospel? Allowed or not?

;)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on December 11, 2009, 10:11:53 AM
{stirring pot}

How about a thread on Secular artists doing Gospel? Allowed or not?

;)
HA HA yes that IS stirring the pot!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: FenderJazzGuy on January 11, 2010, 02:26:16 PM
I know this topic has been beaten like a dead horse but I ran across this short article and thought I'd share. Any thoughts?


Your Secular Work Is Ministry
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 2, by Os Hillman
01-10-2010

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving (Col 3:23-25).

I sat across the table from the well known seminary professor and former missionary as he asked me a very direct question: "So, Os, tell me about this faith at work movement." "Well, there's really nothing complicated about it. I believe every person's work can be viewed as a ministry if done with a motive to glorify God based upon Colossians 3:23," I responded.

"How can you say that if you're not sharing the gospel in that job? You would have to be actively sharing your faith for it to be construed as ministry," he argued.

"No, that's not true. The work itself is ministry because the word for ministry and service come from the same Greek root word, diakonia. When you are serving others even through your secular work and do it with a motive to glorify God, that's why it is ministry. In fact, the Bible says you'll receive an inheritance when you do," I said.

We continued bantering back and forth on the issue. I continued, "God created even secular work to meet human needs. Man began to divide work into spiritual and non-spiritual terms which introduced a form of dualism in the third and fourth centuries. But God never secularized our work. He desires our work to be viewed as worship."

We concluded our meeting in disagreement. However, a few months later I met my friend at a booksellers convention. "Hey, you were right Os! I've done my study and work really is ministry because it is service. This man went on to write a book on the subject and said this; "Think about this. If you are filling someone's teeth, you are ministering to your patient. If you are playing in a symphony orchestra, you are ministering to the audience. If you are flying an airplane, you are ministering to the passengers. If you wait on tables, you are ministering to the customers. All of that clearly fits under biblical diakonia."

It was the first time I'd ever won a theological argument with a theologian!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: pocham on January 11, 2010, 03:02:47 PM
My brother I agree with your statement whole heartedly! As I was reading your statement I thought about Tim Teabow he plays football in the world but never fails to give all the glory to our Lord and Saviour! In my devotional this morning it talked about "Following our example" 1 Timothy 4:12 says Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers. I feel that also means be an example to the unbelievers as well cause they are watching to! o in all we do, do it all for the glory of God!
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on January 11, 2010, 03:54:36 PM
My brother I agree with your statement whole heartedly! As I was reading your statement I thought about Tim Teabow he plays football in the world but never fails to give all the glory to our Lord and Saviour! In my devotional this morning it talked about "Following our example" 1 Timothy 4:12 says Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers. I feel that also means be an example to the unbelievers as well cause they are watching to! o in all we do, do it all for the glory of God!

I've always tried to understand the Teabow thing and I have to ask.

What exactly does he do on the field as a football player to give honor to God (i'm talking outside of his bible verse eye blacks)?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on January 11, 2010, 04:22:54 PM
I've always tried to understand the Teabow thing and I have to ask.

What exactly does he do on the field as a football player to give honor to God (i'm talking outside of his bible verse eye blacks)?

Never seen 'Facing the Giants'?

I equate it to what one does on their secular job to honor God. *kanyeshrug*
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on January 11, 2010, 04:52:50 PM
I know this topic has been beaten like a dead horse but I ran across this short article and thought I'd share. Any thoughts?


Your Secular Work Is Ministry
TGIF Today God Is First Volume 2, by Os Hillman
01-10-2010

Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving (Col 3:23-25).

First let me say, I subscribe to Os Hillman, and enjoy his devotionals.  That scripture needs Col 3:22 to see it in further context.

22  Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God;

The scriptures speaks about having the attitude, and attributes of a servants heart & mindset towards others.  Not only while those who are in charge are looking at you, but also when they are not, because ultimately God sees everything you do.  While this scipture could  be relevant in bigger scheme of things, I think the argument on this board is more often about "is the content of secular  music appropriate" moreso than arguing if "playing outside of church being an issue".


I have thought that before too Jeremyr.   
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: jeremyr on January 11, 2010, 11:54:46 PM
Never seen 'Facing the Giants'?

I equate it to what one does on their secular job to honor God. *kanyeshrug*

I've seen the movie, however I don't see how he's witnessing to others on a football field. 

Honestly I don't know how you could lift up God playing ANY sport.  Granted you can live a Christian life and be an example, but as far as witnessing in your playing....i don't see how that will ever happen.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on January 12, 2010, 12:14:42 AM
I've seen the movie, however I don't see how he's witnessing to others on a football field. 

Honestly I don't know how you could lift up God playing ANY sport.  Granted you can live a Christian life and be an example, but as far as witnessing in your playing....i don't see how that will ever happen.

i dont see that with a lot of jobs. Unless i set up a website for a church or gospel artist, im not sure how my programming is witnessing and such. I think what it means that as we do what we do, we maintain the character and humility we should have as being Christians. In that respect, I think any high profile public job (sports, celebrity, politician) makes that simple thing that more prominent due to the visible contrasting lifestyles that are all too common.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on January 12, 2010, 06:31:02 AM
I've seen the movie, however I don't see how he's witnessing to others on a football field. 

Honestly I don't know how you could lift up God playing ANY sport.  Granted you can live a Christian life and be an example, but as far as witnessing in your playing....i don't see how that will ever happen.

i dont see that with a lot of jobs. Unless i set up a website for a church or gospel artist, im not sure how my programming is witnessing and such. I think what it means that as we do what we do, we maintain the character and humility we should have as being Christians. In that respect, I think any high profile public job (sports, celebrity, politician) makes that simple thing that more prominent due to the visible contrasting lifestyles that are all too common.

This.

I think the question becomes: When we witness do we have to use words?


Just a thought.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: ddwilkins on January 12, 2010, 07:43:42 AM
Witnessing does not have to deal with just speaking about God. Actions speak louder than words do. For the mute person who can't speak, he/she can witness just as effectively as the person who can speak. As far as Tebow with the black eye patches and having a scripture on them, if one person who is watching the game sees the patch and reads that particular bible verse, Tebow has witnessed to them. Yes, he is playing a brutal sport, and it may not glorify God, but we can't hear what he is saying to his teammates in the locker rooms, to his opponents before, during, and after the games. He can be witnessing while on the field. If I'm not mistaken, I read that Reggie White witnessed on the field all the time.

I'm going to try to leave this topic alone with this final thought, (hopefully). Years ago the youth at my church and I included, performed a praise dance at a church in our home town during a conference. Their was a bishop there who didn't agree with what we were doing. Needless, to say he said some things that bothered us and we addressed it with our Pastor. These were her exact words, "God's principles don't change, but the procedure does." So, it made sense to us. As I look back over my life and think about what she said, it's true. 30 years ago, we couldn't communicate via the internet as we are today but God's word is the same as it was 30 years ago. When we would send letters via the mail, we now can send emails instantly. So, although using our jobs as the procedure, the principle is still the same.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on January 12, 2010, 01:55:18 PM
i dont see that with a lot of jobs. Unless i set up a website for a church or gospel artist, im not sure how my programming is witnessing and such. I think what it means that as we do what we do, we maintain the character and humility we should have as being Christians. In that respect, I think any high profile public job (sports, celebrity, politician) makes that simple thing that more prominent due to the visible contrasting lifestyles that are all too common.

You don't program in subliminal messages?  You must have not read the "Guide for Christian Developers, Second Edition"  Instead of a Hello World app, you create a "God so Loved the World" app.. LOL!

This.

I think the question becomes: When we witness do we have to use words?


Just a thought.

Sjonathan02

I would say yes and no, to that question... Here is my line of reasoning.

While our lifestyles are a testimony of what we profess, without our profession of Faith in  who and what we believe in, there is no witness.  I have met many folks who are not believers in Christ whose lives appear to be chalked full of Spiritual fruit, yet they have arrived at disciplines through other ways of living and philosophies.  The only way some will know that we are different from those ?quote unquote? Good People.  Is if we tell them who has changed our lives.  I have seen people who have been involved cults and other religions, because they were attracted to the lifestyle of someone involved in that religion.   Especially, when they are going through a tramatic, time in their life.

So yes, our lifestyle can initially, cause someone to admire or seek after what we have, but words eventually have to be introduced, hopefully sooner than later. 

Romans 10:14 ?But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him? And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him? And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?? - NLT
.

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: floaded27 on January 12, 2010, 02:29:31 PM
You don't program in subliminal messages?  You must have not read the "Guide for Christian Developers, Second Edition"  Instead of a Hello World app, you create a "God so Loved the World" app.. LOL!

Wow, they made a lot of updates from the First Edition. Dang Amazon.com. I knew that sale price was too good to be true. lol.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on January 13, 2010, 09:02:01 AM
When we say the gospel people always make reference to the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I don't believe we take to heart fully what we say. When we say he is resurrected we are saying he lives. As they stated earlier he lives in me. I believe everytime I do good works or give God the glory Christ is glorified. When Im asked how I hot my job I said God did it. Ofcourse I needed other things to get it but the Lord blessed me with it. Proof that he lives. I'm living right and trying to do the right thing because he lives. I believe God's favor upon your life on the job and off is a sign or a witness that he lives. My life is a witness that Jesus lives no matter where I go because if he didn't live in me I would be doing some crazy things right now.  :D
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on January 13, 2010, 10:56:05 AM
why does everything gotta be so deep for yall?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on January 13, 2010, 10:59:54 AM
why does everything gotta be so deep for yall?
It is deep but I not trying to be deep. My posts In this thread are very lighthearted.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on January 13, 2010, 01:35:09 PM
Mystery, I totally agree with you that every believer should live with the perspective that because HE LIVES, I do what I do.

Unfortunately, just living with that perspective isn't enough.  I live in one of the most unchurched cities in the U.S.  Where there are tons of people prospering, living the "Quote Unquote" Good Life, not out there wilding out, Getting promotions on the Job, etc, etc. that are common testimonies of believers, and we say I give God Glory because he did XYZ for me.  Well the unbelievers are getting the same stuff, and sometimes better stuff.

So to further expound on the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.  If its about tangible stuff, the world will miss it all day long, because there is no differential.  Our light and witness needs to be about the eternal, things they can't see nor understand, because they haven't been introduced to His presence.

@under13 It's not about being deep, the posts I have read on this topic are all quite surface to be perfectly honest.  Have you ever read some of the great Christian Thinkers.  Like Watchman Nee, A.W. Tozer, J.I. Packer, Bonhoeffer, Hodge, Paschal... some of the stuff written will give you a headache, its so deep.


I think these discussions would help us all grow, If we take these discussions at face value, without  taking offense when someone has opposite views.   I know listening to other perspectives, and weighing them, and analyzing them through an objective lens often helps me solidify "Why I believe, What I believe"
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on January 13, 2010, 02:24:56 PM
The God conscience is big to me. I would live my life totally different if I wasn't saved there would be no going to the neighbor and apologizing. No repenting for some mistakes. I probably would be doing some devious stuff right now.  :D So I still say my life is a witness through it all. Some sinners can even accredit certain skils and gifts to God. Some people have an ability because God made a promise to your granddaddy.  :D Any saved person is a witness. Now whether your witness is good and true that's a different story.  :)
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: kevmove02 on January 13, 2010, 03:31:48 PM
How can anyone possibly live their life in a "Christian" manner if they don't consider their workplace sacred? The separation of work, home, and church creates a person with a split personality!

While this conversation began in response to the question made by the OP, it opens up the discussion on a subject that is far more significant: when we get saved, does that mean we have to quit our jobs, if they are not "christian" jobs? Who decides which jobs are suitable? Is God disappointed or offended if someone stays at a good job that other Christians find unacceptable?

I'm sure its been said already, but why would an accomplished musician quit their job playing "secular" music, just because they became a Christian? Think about it, are we really saying this:

           You can't be a jingle writer
           You can't score tv shows or movies or plays....
           You can't play music on a cruise ship or on broadway
           You can't teach music, unless you only used Christian music
           You can't be a part of a symphony orchestra

I could go on and on. And yes, i get the whole "if it leads people into to sin, you shouldn't be a part of it". But think about this: do you really believe God is not glorified by everything, sacred or secular? He absolutely gets glory from everything! Whether someone is dunking a basketball or slapping the strings off their bass, God is still glorified! Why? Because he created everything! The instruments we play: God's creation! The cars we drive: God's creations! Without God, man could do nothing! Man has not invented a single thing on earth; he only discovered it! Just because men don't lift up Holy hands and praise Him doesn't mean God is not getting the glory anyway.

14 pages and counting. Since we are driven by this topic, let's add some subtopics:
      a. Gospel musicians who fornicate, commit adultery or perform homosexual acts
      b. Gospel Musicians who leave right after the music stops and the preaching starts
      c. Gospel Musicians who don't ever offer a portion of their increase.
      d. Gospel Musicians who don't show up and don't call, because they think they should get paid more.
      e. Gospel Musicians who criticize other musicians because of the way they play
      f. Gospel Musicians who criticize other musicians for the instruments they play
      g. Gospel Musicians who think they get people saved (if your nor sure, read 1 Cor 15:1-4

Or we could just add one subtopic: how everything that happens on earth will somehow, someway bring God glory, even when we can't see how.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on January 13, 2010, 04:03:59 PM
      g. Gospel Musicians who think they get people saved (if your nor sure, read 1 Cor 15:1-4



I was with you until here. Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Mysteryman on January 13, 2010, 04:05:46 PM
Dude you a writer or something? lol Im wondering why you structure your posts the way you do.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: Torch7 on January 13, 2010, 04:31:42 PM
Giving God Glory is a conscious effort that must be made. 

This is why God "commands" His people to give Him Glory.

In the book of Romans it is quite clear that many will see HIS Creation, and yet not glorify Him, instead they will glorify the things he created.   That is evident in our society, people put a higher premium on so many other things, and not the One true God.

Romans 1:20 - 25
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

This post has sorta rabbit triled a little bit, which good discussions usually do, but I think the latest turn has us at a place where it's not  only about  Secular vs. Church Music, but about witnessing with our lives.  The latter is what my latest comments have been about.  So for the record, I am stating "The only way that you can get away from all things secular is, to die."
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on January 13, 2010, 04:44:36 PM
I was with you until here. Care to elaborate?

Music doesn't save people. It may attract their attention and soothe their soul, but it doesn't save them.


Just ask Saul.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on January 13, 2010, 04:48:51 PM
Music doesn't save people. It may attract their attention and soothe their soul, but it doesn't save them.


Just ask Saul.

What about the Gospel message in the music? Are you guys saying that someone cant get saved by being ministered to though a Gospel song?

Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: dhagler on January 13, 2010, 05:57:06 PM
What about the Gospel message in the music? Are you guys saying that someone cant get saved by being ministered to though a Gospel song?



I think the message and the ministry can lead you to a place where you might (and I am paraphrasing a little) confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe that God raised Him from the dead, which to my understanding is the means through which we are saved.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: kevmove02 on January 13, 2010, 06:05:48 PM
1Co 15:1-4  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  (2)  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  (3)  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  (4)  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

So while music does not have the power to save, it does have an extremely improtant role in both the life of the believer and the body of Christ. I point you towards the greatest hymn book ever created, the Psalms. Within we find 6 key words that translate to the "praise"

Zamar, yadah, t'hillah, hallal, todah and shabach


Each of these words relate to setting the atmosphere for giving our very best praise. It's no coincidence that Psalm 150 closes the hymnal as it does:


Psa 150:1-6  Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.  (2)  Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.  (3)  Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.  (4)  Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.  (5)  Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.  (6)  Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

We are most effective when we play with this thought in mind.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: under13 on January 13, 2010, 06:20:55 PM
1Co 15:1-4  Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;  (2)  By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.  (3)  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;  (4)  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

So while music does not have the power to save, it does have an extremely improtant role in both the life of the believer and the body of Christ. I point you towards the greatest hymn book ever created, the Psalms. Within we find 6 key words that translate to the "praise"

Zamar, yadah, t'hillah, hallal, todah and shabach


Each of these words relate to setting the atmosphere for giving our very best praise. It's no coincidence that Psalm 150 closes the hymnal as it does:


Psa 150:1-6  Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.  (2)  Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.  (3)  Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.  (4)  Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.  (5)  Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.  (6)  Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

We are most effective when we play with this thought in mind.

I already read the verse... I just believe that a person can minister though songs and somebody can hear the biblical words (the same words a  preacher would preach) and come to be saved. I guess you feel different, so we can agree to disagree.


I think the message and the ministry can lead you to a place where you might (and I am paraphrasing a little) confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe that God raised Him from the dead, which to my understanding is the means through which we are saved.

I think I agree.
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: kevmove02 on January 13, 2010, 07:59:19 PM
It's not a matter of opinion or what I believe. Unless the song specifically says, "To receive forgiveness of your sins and gain the blessing of eternal life you must believe that Jesus died for your sins and God raised Him from the dead", then the Gospel hasn't been preached. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no other option. 

As far as ministering through music, that was the point of the 6 hebrew words that are translated "praise". I reiterate, Psalm 150 clearly states what the musicians should do when we gather to worship.

Try this experiment. Part 1 How would you preach Gospel if all you were not allowed to speak and could only play your instrument?  Part 2: How would you preach the Gospel if you could not play any instruments?
Title: Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
Post by: sjonathan02 on January 13, 2010, 09:03:02 PM
It's not a matter of opinion or what I believe. Unless the song specifically says, "To receive forgiveness of your sins and gain the blessing of eternal life you must believe that Jesus died for your sins and God raised Him from the dead", then the Gospel hasn't been preached. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no other option. 

As far as ministering through music, that was the point of the 6 hebrew words that are translated "praise". I reiterate, Psalm 150 clearly states what the musicians should do when we gather to worship.

This; while adding this: one's belief MUST be based on scripture or one has to reevaluate what they believe.