Just a suggestion - how about one (or 2) proverbs a day?
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks so much for doing this, Churchy! I appreciate your initiative. What a blessing. Seriously.
:)
I do agree with Betnich. Since there are 31 Proverbs, how about a Proverbs Month? One proverb a day, and each week, we discuss 7 of them? (I'm down for whatever, so this is just a suggestion).
Or maybe we should just discuss the one we read each day? It might be kinda difficult to discuss 7 proverbs at a time. They can be so rich, it might be hard to cover everything if we're trying to remember 7 for a Friday discussion. And if you miss a day, its really no biggie. You can always chime in when you get back or just move on to the current convo.
Count me in!
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks so much for doing this, Churchy! I appreciate your initiative. What a blessing. Seriously.
:)
Yeah, good for you Benny!
Ummm, that wasn't Britt's idea... See page 1 of the suggestions thread. But yeah, thanks Britt. LOL! :D :D :D :P
I'm also ready to start Monday.
Churchy, are you ok with one a day? If so, I will edit the format you posted.
I'm in too.
Which way are we doing this? Churchy's layout or Layla's idea? Any one will be ok with me.
SN: I really like this!
Done. Let's go!!!
Yay! Looking forward to it.
I'm starting Monday! Yay!! Thanks Britt for throwing the idea in about reading books of the Bible!
verse 10-19 just really resonated with me last night. I was talking to a fraternity brother about the senseless crime that constantly happens. I wonder if we made tracts with those verses on it would it help one young person hanging out with the wrong crowd...
I think what resonated with me the most was vs 20-33.
Wisdom is not only available to us, but it chases after us, trying to get our attention, but we won't embrace it until we have screwed up so colossally that we can't do without it. And in that time, wisdom will not answer. The most profound verse, for me, was v33: But whoso hearkens to me [Wisdom] shall dwell securely and in confident trust and shall be quiet, without fear or dread of evil. What an amazing promise. So much peace in that promise.
Umm......
What chapter are we on?? 4??
Interesting. Veeerrryy interesting.
Has anyone been reading or no? I haven't. :\
SMH is right. Amazing how we kept up with these other 2 books. :-\
Wow. It's been a minute since I've peeped the "Book Club" link. I'd love to join in on the discussions of Proverbs. What chapter are you guys on now?
Wait...We can talk daily about pagan Christianity, but lose interest in the Proverbs??? 2011 saints, I tell ya...
I'm trippin over how the ones who were PUSHING to do the Proverbs haven't been back since day uno. Smh!At the very least, I'd recommend picking up from chapter 3. Though, obviously being late to the table, I wouldn't mind starting from chapter one. But, since it has already been discussed, I doubt people would add much to what has already been said.
And yeah, it definitely says something that we can stay focused on other books, but not the Word.
Anyway, y'all wanna start over, pick up from Ch3, or pick up where we should be at this point??
Well since today is the 3rd, let's just do one proverb a day starting with #3 today, and continuing each day. Coincidentally, that's what I was gonna suggest in the first place (starting on 9/1 so our chapters would coincide with the day of the month), but everyone seemed so excited I didn't think they'd wanna wait. Hmph!!! ::) :D
LL, I'm volunteering you to be my accountability partner for this, please if you will.
I'm ready to try again!!!
I'm blessed by your comments brother. I'm particularly blessed by what you said about discernment. It is a most useful aspect of Holy Ghost, the discerning of spirits. I have found it useful in getting along with other believers even some on LGM, my wife, and even within myself. One must be able to identify spirits that interact with them for various purposes. When a particular spirit is identified The Spirit should lead us in the proper way to respond. It is also vital that we be good at examining ourselves to see whether we be in the faith. I'm big on that. The bible poses the question, "know ye not your own selves how Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates"? No one knows me better than me besides God.
^^^ Very good stuff, Churchy.
I really enjoyed you guys last night. I'm ready for more!!
Amen brother, very good commentary. I'm just missing your prayer of application. ;) I missed it from your last two posts it's vital part your contributions. I'm not being critical just encouraging I hope.
Could someone explain 12:9 ... I don't really understand it...
hmm ... got a follow up question
Would
The verse in the NLT (new living translation) says "better to be an ordinary person with a servant than to be self-appointed but have no food."
that verse mean the same thing if you said
"better to be an ordinary person with an employee than to be self-appointed but have no food."
meaning could I say employee instead of servant?
I guess it would depend on if the employee was a servant at heart. I'm going to look in a commentary or two and see what I find. This is a very good question you're bringing up!
Ok in reference to 12:9, one of the cross references I saw was Luke 14:11 which states from the KJV "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." From the NLT it says "for those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted." So to me, verse 9 is dealing with humbleness and how we it's better to be humble than full of self because if we start humble God will elevate us.
What source do you use to look up cross-references?
What source do you use to look up cross-references?
My King James Life Application Study Bible has cross-references but you can go to studylight.org and that should have cross-references there.
I just want to thank Layla and Brittany for getting us (particularly me) back on track with studying Proverbs. To be honest, my flesh this weekend didn't want to read but I did it anyway. You know it's funny how I can have a passion to read my other books but reading the Word for me (and I'd say for many of us) is challenging. Maybe that's a part of spiritual warfare.
Also I want to thank LL, Hasmonean1 and anyone else who has been contributing for what you're bringing. This is helping me grow.
And Layla, next time you have a brilliant idea (the one about waiting till September and reading the chapter affiliated with the day) bring it out! What a great idea and it has helped me stay on track!!
Chapter 14
I was led to explore some of the words in this chapter from the KJV to bring surety to the mean and way we have used some of them.
Fool - From the Hebrew word Keciyl meaning stupid or silly.
Foolish - From the Hebrew word ivveleth or eviyl meaning silliness or folly.
Scorner- From the Hebrew Luwts (loots) to make mouths at, to make a mock or a mocker.
Intermeddle- From the Hebrew arab to braid or intermix also to give or be security.
Backslider - From the Hebrew cuwg (soog) to flinch, to go back, to retreat
Simple - From the Hebrew Pethiy (seducible) foolish also one who deceives, entices, flatters, or persuades.
Penury From the Hebrew miknac To store away in a sense of hiding
Mirth From the Hebrew simchah glee or exceeding gladness, joy or rejoice.
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people. My prayer is that this nation spares itself of upcoming reproach.
Okay, I've been following and slacking a little with reading (especially while I was on vacation), but I'm on track. What I realized (and should've known) is that we don't all have the same learning style or the same application style. I can't discuss it the way you guys do, and trying to do so overwhelms me and makes me procrastinate (which ultimately leads to me not posting anything at all... lol).
So instead of trying to share all my thoughts on the day's chapter in one post, I'm going to do it the way it works best for me. Hope no one minds.
I'm loving this discussion, loving the Book Club, loving the Proverbs and loving you guys! It is HELPING me. :)
v8 and 9 - The folly of fools is deceit. Fools joke about sin. (See Steve Harvey thread) :-\
v12 is one of my faves: There is a way that seemeth right to a man, but the end thereof is the way of death. That scripture has frightened me since I was a teenager. Another one (I think it's a proverb) says: a man's ways are right in his own eyes. We always think that what we're doing is right. It's so easy to find fault in others (mote/beam), but we tend to think that our own way is the righteous way. It also reminds me of something my uncle once told me that I never forgot: it's hard to see the details of a picture when you're too close to it. Sometimes, you have to step back to get the full scope of things. That's why our ways appear to be right to US. But this is also just one more reason it's so important to pursue wisdom and not just knowledge.
Lord, PLEASE help us to know you more. Help us to hear you and to be led by you. Guide our path, order our steps, speak to us, correct us, chastise us, rebuke us, reprove us, fix us while there is yet time. Open our eyes so that we may see when we are in error. Speak to us loudly and clearly, and with confirmation, when we are wrong. Extend your grace toward us even the more. It will profit us nothing to dot all our i's, cross all our t's, gain the whole world and all its success, glamour, and riches, and still lose our souls because we thought we were going the right way. God if we KNOW you more, we will KNOW the way to go. Help us to know you more.
Lord, PLEASE help us to know you more. Help us to hear you and to be led by you. Guide our path, order our steps, speak to us, correct us, chastise us, rebuke us, reprove us, fix us while there is yet time. Open our eyes so that we may see when we are in error. Speak to us loudly and clearly, and with confirmation, when we are wrong. Extend your grace toward us even the more. It will profit us nothing to dot all our i's, cross all our t's, gain the whole world and all its success, glamour, and riches, and still lose our souls because we thought we were going the right way. God if we KNOW you more, we will KNOW the way to go. Help us to know you more.
Amen sister. All of it was good so no need in quoting all of the whole posts. When I saw your "KNOW" it took me back to the "yada" Brother LL spoke of earlier.
My goodness we have covered a lot but only uncovered a little. God is good.
Good stuff Layla! Keep it going!!
do you think anyone makes something like proverb cookies? You know like fortune cookies but have verses from the book of proverbs? I doubt it, but maybe in a Jewish restaurant. The Proverbs is filled with wisdom that a lot of people don't want to hear as oppose to something coming their way as in a fortune.
Its late here, D'wayne Wood is singing "Let Go and Let God" just finished reading the 14th chapter. I know I'm late ...
Have a few questions. We are warned to stay away from fools. What are some of the traits of a fool today? The word says a fool hath said in his heart there is no God. Their traits will be identified by the way they live. Any person who lives their life without regard or fear of God. They carry on about life as if there is no God. That is not to say that such a person can't be converted though. They just have the ways of a fool.
What are some uncommon traits of a fool? I don't really know about this one. Maybe if you explain in further detail what you are asking for.
Why is it that we hate the poor? I never understood it. Maybe its not hate but if I"m next to a homeless person who hasn't bathe. I don't want to talk to them. I actually want to go the other way. Or sometimes I see an able body poor person and I have no mercy at all for whatever reason they have to be poor...
Maybe it's the unclean disposition that you hate rather than the person.
okay time to read chapter 15
I like what verse 7 says about enemies being made to be at peace with a man when his ways please God. That is very profound. If we are having issues with our enemies whether it be in person or with nations, then maybe we should check our ways. This spiritual precept unlocks the key to peace. It lies solely within our ways pleasing the Lord. I pray that this country realize this concept. Because there is a danger of the inverse as we say in the world of mathematics. If a mans's ways does not please the Lord, then he maketh his enemies to be a war with him.
2. How does this verse go with the idea of martyrs? And if we are talking about two different things could you explain the difference?
These short couplets are what we commonly recognize as proverbs (10:1 - 24:34) They cover a wide range of topics. Furthermore, statements do not apply universally to all people in every situation. Rather, they tend to communicate the general truth that the life of those who seeks God fares better in the long run than the life of the wicked person. To do each chapter justice in one day would probably take the full strength of LGM. It is therefore imperative that we draw from one another and get the measure dealt to us for these times. With that said, I choose to expound upon choice verses as lead by The Spirit or items of significance in my life that may be presently helpful.
Proverbs 19
19:11 "Sensible people control their temper; they earn respect by overlooking wrongs." Wow! I'm learning this a lot right now. Sometimes we get in unnecessary arguments and confusions because of our tempers. Some of us are so willing to have our "say so" in something that it causes more harm than good. There are times when being quiet is the best solution to some problems. Sometimes it's best to overlook some things. For many of us that's hard because many of us have been taught to have an opinion about the things we believe. We've been taught that we should not let things go over us, but there are times when that is necessary in order to keep our sanity.
19:18 "Discipline your children while there is hope. Otherwise you will ruin their lives." I think it was Frederick Douglas who talked about it's better to build up children than repair adults.I love this quote and will be using it.
Amen. This can be applied in many cases related to this forum.
Here In CA we have the man who got the death penalty reinstated in 1978 now pleading to reverse it - apparently because of the cost...
[url]http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_18919370[/url] ([url]http://www.dailynews.com/opinions/ci_18919370[/url])
Prayer of Application: Lord we pray for Troy Davis. Lord you know best and we pray that your sovereign will be done in such a horrifying situation. We trust you and realize that no matter what happens you are still the sovereign God that bigger than any problem that we face. We pray for the families of both Troy and the one that was killed. We pray for healing and strength for both families. We pray that you will allow us to live lives in which we are as consistent as we can be so that everyone has a fair chance at life, liberty and joy in you, in Jesus name, amen!
on bible gateway in the footnotes there was the following:
Proverbs 21:6 Septuagint reads Pursue vanity on the snares of death; Vulgate reads Is vain and foolish, and shall stumble on the snares of death; Targum reads They shall be destroyed, and they shall fall who seek death.
Is the Septuagint, Vulgate and the Targum the original documents that the bible as we know it today is translated from?
Yes brother, I do believe we underestimate time. I first realized how fast time goes by when internalizing a portion of the movie "Roots". The little girl Kizzy was looking at the family tree with her father and he showed her which branch represented him and how far the family had come. Just looking at the events and time that passed in their lives let me know that my time here may not be such a long occurrance. When compared to eternity, it's as if though we all have a split second to make a decision as to where we will spend eternity. Age and experience has taught be to enjoy the times we have more and attempt to be more productive. Funny that I find myself getting up earlier, staying up later, and sleeping less in my more progressive years. It doesn't amaze me how grandma and granddad would do it back in the day. :)
-27:5 "An open rebuke is better than hidden love." Have we got away from this? I think so to a certain degree but I think that has happened because we as a society are a little more sensitive to rebuke (maybe it's just me) and also we mostly have a "I do what I want" mindset and therefore no one can correct us. I actually saw an example of open rebuke last night on twitter. A young man was basically calling out someone on something. That person then corrected them in front of everyone. Personally I'm not too big about that, but that was a imperfect example of open rebuke. This verse is very conflicting to me because I'm more of an advocate of private correction....*sigh*.Matthew 18:15
Before giving my comments, I want to give my take and expound on what Hasmonean1 said on 29:18 from the KJV (I've been reading Proverbs from the New Living Translation (NLT)). The verse in the KJV says "where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he." What I like is that in the NLT is says "When people do not accept divine guidance..." What does this mean? To me it means that the "vision" must be guided by God. As Hasmonean1 mentioned, spiritual leadership is very important. It is important that pastors (if churches operate in this model) have visions that direct the church back to God. Trying to boost your own ego and market is NOT a "vision." A "vision" is also not trying to find means to control the members more. A "vision" should be biblically based and centered on discipleship, evangelism and spiritual growth. Everything else is personal preference.
-29:11 "Fools vent their anger, but the wise quietly hold it back." The more mature we get in Christ, the more we should be quiet, especially in situations that would (in our flesh) cause us to get angry. I've seen this theme so many times in Proverbs: we have got to learn how to not feel the need to always "express" ourselves in certain situations. I believe things would be better in our world if we decided to sometimes be quiet. Every situation does not call for us to express our emotions. Some situations call for us to be quiet. Now we're not suppose to let people take advantage of us, but at the same time always having something to say in negative situations is not always good. LGM, let's be more cautious about feeling the need to always "respond" to something we don't like or is said to and about us on here. Sometimes it's best to just ignore and....KEEP IT MOVING!
Since we're talking about the Proverbs 31 woman...
We like to assign that title to every woman who is God-fearing, celibate, and knows how to cook. But, she isn't just one who loves the Lord and is virtuous. She is a business woman. She is a planner. She is organized. She encourages her husband, and does her part to guard his reputation; she represents him well and always takes pride in her appearance. She manages her household and uses her talent to earn entrepreneurial income. She is dependable, smart and honest. She knows how to make clothing, plant her own vegetables, and doesn't sleep all day and night: she isn't lazy and doesn't seek out conveniences in place of quality for her family. She is wise, kind, Godly and skilled, and doesn't get involved in idleness (foolishness, including gossip and laziness). Her work speaks for her and she has a solid, honorable reputation.
This is part of a new series of messages to singles called "Idols In The Church." We compare the Proverbs 31 woman to the church lady, and the man of GOD to a slick preacher. Hope it blesses someone.
The Bible says that Idols are the works of man's hand's, but evil spirits are behind them. The Proverbs 31 woman is a standard that the Bible gives people to strive for; it is a standard for the sisters to emulate and a standard for brothers to look for.
However, the Proverbs 31 woman has been replaced by a cheap knock-off. She looks like like the Proverbs 31 woman, because she is always in church. But if you look closely, you see differences. She isn't the Proverbs 31 Woman, she is an idol called the church lady.
The Proverbs 31 woman is a financial asset to her home. She is industrious, hard working; she has developed her talents and uses them to bless her home. The church lady is a financial liability. She has not developed any talent except how to dress, and she gets what she wants by manipulation, control and whining.
The Proverbs 31 woman sees well to her house. The church lady has no home skills.
The Proverbs 31 woman is stylish, classy and elegant. The church lady is either overdone with too much makeup and jewelry, or thinks her salvation is in her clothes and needs to put some makeup and jewelry on.
The Proverbs 31 woman can do physical stuff; the Bible describes her as clothing her arms with strength. The church lady get tired the moment it is time to do anything physical, no lawn work, no spring cleaning, no cooking anything that takes time or preparation, no turning mattresses, etc.
The Proverbs 31 woman has a husband who can't stop praising her, he says that of all the good women out there his boo has outdone all of them. The church lady's husband travels out of town to get away from her for a while.
The Proverbs 31 woman carries her Bible so she can read it. She guides her life and her house by prayer and what the Bible says. The church lady carries her Bible so she can be seen with it. She guides her life by what gets her approval from her denomination.
The Proverbs 31 woman is a leader and an example to other sisters to follow; others look to her for counsel, guidance and she wants to help others succeed in life. The church lady looks like a leader, but if you look closely she just has a posse of sisters whom she decides is either "in the clique" or "out of the clique." You'd better not succeed past what she approves of, or you are "out."
We have replaced the Proverbs 31 woman with an idol. As a result, young single men are confused as to what to look for, and young single women are confused as to whom to emulate. And the single population is by and large greatly a mess.
Ever notice there is no physical description of the Proverbs 31 woman? That is because she can be anyone, rich or poor / educated or uneducated / from a solid home or a broken home. Like GOD is Invisible and we serve HIM by faith, following His Spirit and His Word . . . we don't know what the Proverbs 31 woman looks like. That has made it easy to replace her with an idol, someone we can look at.
In the Old Testament, revival started when idols were torn down. Let's tear down the idol of the church lady.
Be Blessed
Yes I did----all ya'll knew who Big Daddy was before he even logged on this site. "Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land." The virtuous woman's husband was known because of her reputation and because she did things to lift her husband up. She honored her husband. She respected her husband. She was not a woman who was trying to take the lead but she complimented her husband's ministry.
"Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her." Why do you think her children call her blessed? Because they saw that her lifestyle at home matches her lifestyle in public and her lifestyle in church! {OUCH---that hurt somebody.} They also call her blessed because they see how well the husband treats her-----" he praiseth her." He ain't only praising her because she is a good financial planner, seamstress, etc.---but God said "be fruitful and multiply"---- the husband is SATISFIED with the process it takes to multiply! In other words , Sista Virtuous is taking care of business with her man! As a result, the brother is taking care of her need for attention & affection---he praises her! The Virtuous woman has a GOOD MAN!!
Yes!---I am a Virtuous Sista! And you sistas that are too uptight to AT LEAST ask your husband what's your fantasy----SHAME ON YOU! But I ain't just asking my husband......I take care ----let me stop. ;D
I dance, I sing
I sew, I write
When I worship God
I worship him with all my might
I am a virtuous woman
I cook, I clean
I pray, I dream
Without God
I can do none of these things
I am a virtuous woman
Strength and beauty
Love and Life
I am a gift to man
Whom God breathe into the breath of life
I am a virtuous woman
I represent my husband
Eve r ry where I go
At work, at church, and even to the sto
I am a virtuous woman
Every day the devil
Tries to bring me down
To keep me protected
I need a praying, God fearing man around
I am a virtuous woman
For my family
I search and seek out nothing but the best
I also make sure
My husband's clothes are clean and freshly pressed
I am a virtuous woman
Daily life, People, places and things
Sometimes they wear me down
But all I do is call on Jesus
He is always around
Test and trials are there to make me strong
With God as the head of MY life
I cant go wrong
Who can find a virtuous woman?
For her worth is far above rubies
Look no further
A virtuous woman
Yeah
That's me...
Hasmonean1, appreciate your commentary on Proverbs....thanks.
Proverbs 31
In the first part of Proverbs 31 vs 1-9, the mother of King Lemuel expresses two dangers that could hamper his effective reign. She spoke of women and strong drink as being the chief adversaries. The power that a woman possess is that which can sap the power of nearly any man. Jezebel and the wife of Pharaoh are fitting examples of that power put to use. Someone once stated in the lounge that some women don't know the power they possess and that's so very true. We as Godly men should also be aware of that potential power and let it not have dominion over us. To sum it up, a king or any other man should not let anything get into their head that would subvert quality decisions and Godly lifestyle.
The virtuous woman has been discussed in detail here on LGM in the past. Therefore I did research and brought back to life some old posts that are beneficial to this section.
In our society where physical appearance counts for so much, it may surprise us to realize that her appearance is never mentioned. Her attractiveness comes entirely from her character. The woman described in this chapter has outstanding abilities. Her family's social position is high. In fact, she may not be one woman at all - she may be a composite portrait of ideal womanhood. Maybe we shouldn't see her as a model to imitate in every detail; our days are not long enough to do everything it says she does. It would be a blessing to rather see her as an inspiration to be all you can be.
The book of Proverbs begins with the command to trust and reverence the Lord (1:7) and ends with the picture of a woman who fulfills this command. Her qualities are mentioned throughout the book: hard work, fear of God, respect for spouse, foresight, encouragement, care for others, concern for the poor, wisdom in handling money. These qualities, when coupled with fear of God, lead to enjoyment, success, honor, and worth. Proverbs is very practical for our day because it shows us how to become wise, make good decisions, and live according to God's ideal.
I'll give my final thoughts and remarks later.
Be blessed