liljohn lumpkin are you trying to say you think its out of place? ...and thats why it shouldnt be there because it causes negative attention?....i personally dont feel that its bad to incorporate into gospel...i dont think b/c i played Eminem's "loose your self" into a gospel song that God would not be glorified by my praise thats going forth...b/c our younger generations respond to things like that...i think it gets away from "old" tradition, and helps our congregations move towards the new level of where God is leading us. we never know how we are blessing others..
peace
Christian musicians should not recycle themes from the WORLD whether they came from the church or not. The reason is because its already been tainted. Example: Making your clean clothes dirty, and putting them back with the clean clothes. If the clothes had minds of their own, would the clean begin to question themselves because the unclean now dwells with them? The bible says let there be a difference BETWEEN clean and unclean. And I am fully aware that I am speaking against something that has been excepted by some mainstream gospel artist and musicians, but HOLINESS is still right. We have a connection from on high which no other style of music carries. That's why gospel artist and musicians can sing and play many different stlyes. But, have you ever noticed that no matter how hard some secular artist try, they never make it in gospel music like they did in the world. Why? When you answer this question, you will then answer why licks and loops shouldn't be taken from the world and put in gospel music.
I hear you and I feel you. HOWEVER, you have to understand one thing, even though this is a GOSPEL website, a large majority of the drummers are extremely lax in their approach to Christianity, Righteous Living and Holiness.
Crazy huh? even when we have God's word. Heaven and Earth will pass away but His word will never, yet we find it so hard to just stick to His Word.
Its a Mute point. We've all argued/debated over these kind of topics time and time again to no avail.
Good Luck. ;)
I'm sure you meant "moot point" ;)
In any event, I thought we were snared by the words of our mouths ?/? Therefore, how can beats/loops be misconstrued as anything other than JUST MUSIC if nothing is said over them?
I mean...Unless it's an augmented 4th lol :D
No, I did not mean moot, I meant Mute. I know the difference between the 2 words. ;)
liljohn lumpkin are you trying to say you think its out of place? ...and thats why it shouldnt be there because it causes negative attention?....i personally dont feel that its bad to incorporate into gospel...i dont think b/c i played Eminem's "loose your self" into a gospel song that God would not be glorified by my praise thats going forth...b/c our younger generations respond to things like that...i think it gets away from "old" tradition, and helps our congregations move towards the new level of where God is leading us. we never know how we are blessing others..
peace
Dude, I was just trying to help you out, but you got defensive. I can't let it slide now lol.
According to yourself you don't know the difference between the two. You MAY have had a case if you didn't further explain yourself. Let me refresh your memory. You said:"Its a Mute point. We've all argued/debated over these kind of topics time and time again to no avail."
"...to no avail." meaning the issue is unresolved. Correct?
“Moot” is a very old word related to “meeting,” specifically a meeting where serious matters are discussed. Oddly enough, a moot point can be a point worth discussing at a meeting (or in court)—an unresolved question—or it can be the opposite: a point already settled and not worth discussing further. At any rate, “mute point” is simply wrong, as is the less common “mood point.”
BTW, This may help you out ;D
[url]http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/[/url] ([url]http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/[/url])
ZING!
Christian musicians should not recycle themes from the WORLD whether they came from the church or not. The reason is because its already been tainted. Example: Making your clean clothes dirty, and putting them back with the clean clothes. If the clothes had minds of their own, would the clean begin to question themselves because the unclean now dwells with them? The bible says let there be a difference BETWEEN clean and unclean. And I am fully aware that I am speaking against something that has been excepted by some mainstream gospel artist and musicians, but HOLINESS is still right. We have a connection from on high which no other style of music carries. That's why gospel artist and musicians can sing and play many different stlyes. But, have you ever noticed that no matter how hard some secular artist try, they never make it in gospel music like they did in the world. Why? When you answer this question, you will then answer why licks and loops shouldn't be taken from the world and put in gospel music.
It all depends because sometimes music can be a trigger to someone who associates it with partying, drinking or doing drugs. Music is so powerful that it can make you re-connect with a certain time in your life that your desperately trying to get away from.
On the other hand, God can use and will use anything at anytime for anyone!!!!
I know what you mean bruh. I think it comes down to being lead by the Holyspirit which I know by experience won't tell me to play a hook or loop from a secular song just to draw someone. If the Holyspirit is not powerful enough to draw the people then I know a secular hook or loop is only temporary and is done in vain.
We must remember that we cannot draw people, it's the Lord who draws the people to him if we are obedient to his will. My experience playing music has shown me that when I am in tune and focused on what Jesus wants then no secular hook or loop even crosses my mind. It's all about what Jesus wants. God will not just accept any offering/praise we give up to him.....example:Cain and Abel.
God Bless
Ive heard many ppl use this line for an excuse so......
*to everyone*
Why would God want to use a piece of secular music to help draw people to Him?
Bottom line... Christ is being preached is He not? read what Paul says ...
*to everyone*
Why would God want to use a piece of secular music to help draw people to Him?
On the other hand, God can use and will use anything at anytime for anyone!!!!
Ive heard many ppl use this line for an excuse so......
*to everyone*
Why would God want to use a piece of secular music to help draw people to Him?
Ive heard many ppl use this line for an excuse so......
*to everyone*
Why would God want to use a piece of secular music to help draw people to Him?
*Puts popcorn down...*
*Grabs popcorn & sits down again...*
Let's remember a few things:
- God is the creator of all things. The enemy cannot create anything he can only suggest too us a perversion in which we inact with our God-given power to create thereby our intent inacts the perversion via the suggestion of the enemy.
- God created music, Lucifer was only a vessel. Lucifers fall did not overtake what God created.
- Satan (Lucifer once fallen) set out to detur/deceive man in the power of God man was created in/with/authorized to use in the earth. The power to conceive/create/birth/father/shepherd/steward through our thoughts and words.
- The renewing of our minds and consistant search for truth, knowledge and wisdom through application under wise council and due diligence in all our endeavours (music in this conversation) would cause use to create freely rather than "mimic" as the devil does.
If we submited to being stewards rather than talented folk, students and teachers, masters and apprentice/disciples, craftmens we would not be having this discussion. We simply don't demonstrate the power because we don't exercise/practice/walk in the power given us. Mostly because we don't listen to instruction (wise council), we don't actually practice (which is our preporation time to get the download from the Holy Spirit whose job is to teach us all things and bring all things to remembrence). We don't write the vision and make it plane so that others can run with it (write/read music let alone Gospel music... how can you play in truth when you cannot speak/write the language thereof - and you confess that you don't want to, it doesn't take all that and/or you are scare to actually learn.).
Secular music has more practicing masters walking boldly and powerfully in the gifts/power that God entrusted them with being good and just stewards and giving without measure than the sacred/Gospel word does. This is a sad truth. WE THE CHURCH MUSICIANS choose to pray that the Ho;y Spirit would come upon us (when he should be dwelling in us) rather than be responsible stewards off what we are inevitably responsible for (all our deeds will be answered for on judgement day including musical slothfulness - review the parable of the talents). When the enemy catches us walking in less than full purpose/power he rips us a new one check out the Seven Sons of Skiva faking being empowered to cast out demons as Paul had demonstrated.
If our playing doesn't affect/effect our atmosphere toward joy and peace and power to cast out demons then we need to check ourselves. If when we play a new song/phrase is not birthed or at least seeded then we need to check ourselves. We should be in a constant cycle of growth and harvest. We are empowered to do so.
Some music meant for the church was turned away because of "church folk" being stoney ground causing chosen folk to turn-away running like Jonah. Then when they come out of the "whale of the world" in obedience we still condemn them not allowing them the platform to speak/do what God called them to do.
Oh ok gotcha, im sorry. I just asked that question because for a moment it made me think that some of you believe that God cant do it all or somethin' of the sort.......if you get me.
I applaud you, Lil John, in your attempt to bring us back into the mindset of holiness=sacred=sanctified=set apart. But people who aren't creative enough to come up with their own stuff, plus zero desire to live completely the way God has called to live (darkness and light can not co-exist), equals taking anybody else's music, using it in church, and thinking that God has lowered His standard just because they wanted to use something they got from some secular artist,
Sidenote: People who act like they don't know "secular" means are always asking, "How far can I go?" You don't have to like it, but God writes it down in His book everytime you operate in that mindset.
When a Gospel rapper uses beats from a secular song, the kids ALWAYS perk up because they recognize the song from the SECULAR artist. They're not thinking about glorifying God, they're thinking about what those real words say. Some of y'all act like you're naive. It ain't cute anymore. Y'all big ole rusty jokas are too old to be acting like this mess is alright.
But I agree with E.R. You're already stopping up your ears. I type against the Deaf and Dumb spirit RIGHT NOW!!! Some of your hearts are so hardened (in the name of so-called improvement and progressiveness) that God ain't even looking your way anymore. And somebody has the nerve to talk about God using that filth to go to the next level!! Have you ever thought that maybe the level you're trying to get to is not higher, but lower? You're trying to move to a new dimension, but God ain't in it. It's not about what you think. . . it's about what God's word says. And He tells us SEVERAL times to be Holy, set apart, sanctified for His use.
This is pathetic. Can't hear this man trying to call us back to Holiness for all the complaining of the 1/2 Christians!! It's sickening. I wonder if God ever wants to vomit when He hears some of y'all talk!!
Christian musicians should not recycle themes from the WORLD whether they came from the church or not. The reason is because its already been tainted. Example: Making your clean clothes dirty, and putting them back with the clean clothes. If the clothes had minds of their own, would the clean begin to question themselves because the unclean now dwells with them? The bible says let there be a difference BETWEEN clean and unclean. And I am fully aware that I am speaking against something that has been excepted by some mainstream gospel artist and musicians, but HOLINESS is still right. We have a connection from on high which no other style of music carries. That's why gospel artist and musicians can sing and play many different stlyes. But, have you ever noticed that no matter how hard some secular artist try, they never make it in gospel music like they did in the world. Why? When you answer this question, you will then answer why licks and loops shouldn't be taken from the world and put in gospel music.
Dude I completely disagree...I think you have it backwards.
Most of the great african american secular artists and musicians of today started off in the church, not the world first, and they brought what they got from the church to the world. Beyonce, Gerald Herward, Chris Dave, Whitney Houston, Calvin Rodgers, Usher...etc...All of them started out singing his eyes are on the sparrow, and playing church devotional songs just like we hear every Sunday. Church is the roots, and thats were it's all coming from, so when you hear something at the BET awards, I can almost guarantee that dude or chick started off playing in church somewhere...In other words those arent "The worlds licks" They're actually the churchs licks being recycled.
Plus we have to remember, we cant keep track off everything we pick up when we play and practice and where it came from, we just have to remember to play to the glory of God, and play for no other reason.
The real question is...How do you "define" secular "music"?
Is Bach secular "music"?
Dude I completely disagree...I think you have it backwards.
Most of the great african american secular artists and musicians of today started off in the church, not the world first, and they brought what they got from the church to the world. Beyonce, Gerald Herward, Chris Dave, Whitney Houston, Calvin Rodgers, Usher...etc...All of them started out singing his eyes are on the sparrow, and playing church devotional songs just like we hear every Sunday. Church is the roots, and thats were it's all coming from, so when you hear something at the BET awards, I can almost guarantee that dude or chick started off playing in church somewhere...In other words those arent "The worlds licks" They're actually the churchs licks being recycled.
Plus we have to remember, we cant keep track off everything we pick up when we play and practice and where it came from, we just have to remember to play to the glory of God, and play for no other reason.
LOOOOOOOL :D
Bach is actually one of the guys who didnt even wrote his name under the craziely good and remarkable stuff he composed and wrote!!!!!!!
He always signed his works with three words! :
"SOLI DEO GLORIA"
I think that yall know that it means: All Glory belongs to God!
So we can say that Bachs works are maybe one of the most anti-secular works ;)
Just wanted to clear that out ;)
God Bless
LOL...
My point exactly...
...and we still use some of the same progressions in music today.... ;) 8)
Let me say this,
I have experienced both. I have in my young stage of getting things together on the kit played licks from the secular in gospel music along with a full band. One thing that will say is that it distracts the listener from the message, to the music. That should never be the case. The weight of the music should uphold the message, not start a new message or thought process.
One thing about God, he will give you the art of creation if you dilligently seek it.
How do we go about fishing for souls musicaly? Would you catch the fish in a secure or insecure net? Which do you prefer and why? How do you define security?
Christian musicians should not recycle themes from the WORLD whether they came from the church or not. The reason is because its already been tainted. Example: Making your clean clothes dirty, and putting them back with the clean clothes. If the clothes had minds of their own, would the clean begin to question themselves because the unclean now dwells with them? The bible says let there be a difference BETWEEN clean and unclean. And I am fully aware that I am speaking against something that has been excepted by some mainstream gospel artist and musicians, but HOLINESS is still right. We have a connection from on high which no other style of music carries. That's why gospel artist and musicians can sing and play many different styles. But, have you ever noticed that no matter how hard some secular artist try, they never make it in gospel music like they did in the world. Why? When you answer this question, you will then answer why licks and loops shouldn't be taken from the world and put in gospel music.
stuff...
Copy and paste works wonders, eh?
We as musicians cannot lie on our instruments. When we play, our influences (secular or non-secular) come out. Even in your attempt to praise God, you cant hide it. Your motive will justify your actions. If you implement a secular lick or loop because it sounds good and it makes sense musically, then the spirit of the people should recognize it as that. (John P Kee does this very well.) If you do it to try to get the attention of the un-saved (young and old) then I believe youre on the wrong track. You dont use the Devil's cheese to catch the Devil's mice. You use the Word. We have to use wisdom. Keep your actions pure. Keep it Holy. I think YPJ is a perfect example of this method of "reaching out."
Copy and paste works wonders, eh?
Or a college education in theology!!! We all arnt ghetto!!!!!
Wow, this is generating great discussion. Allow me to drop my 2 cents. First of all, i think using the music of the world shows lack of creativity as a christian. Can't we get our own stuff? Secondly,when people hear stuff from the world (which kirk franklin is famous for) they only think of the secular song that it was from, not the gospel song..........and they start laughing at us. God gave us creativity, lets use it. Why can't the world hear a gospel song and be attracted instead of we using the world's stuff?
And, here is the directlink to your plagiarized non reference cited paragraph about Christmas: [url]http://www.swrb.com/newslett/freebook/holyday.htm[/url]
Don't try me, dawg. Try to clown and you get clowned.
;D
In college, that's called plagiarism. They'll expel you for that.
Dude the only clown is you! Stay ignorant bro! :-*
Right. ;)Anyway moving on;
Anyway moving on;
Its inevitable that secular songs and gospel song will share chords, progressions, etc, becuase its all music. But like I said earlier, its all about your motive. Tritones were traditionally considered evil and used for evil purposes and now they are used a lot in gospel music. Same thing, but they can be used for evil or be used to glorify God.
....However you cant just take your "motive" and run off with it, theres the middle of the line. When David wanted to bring the Ark into the city, his motive was right but he went about it the wrong way and there was a heavy price...
...When the music is arranged a differently its brings about different emotions, and atmospher, etc...and God expects us to approach him in reverence. When the Priests in Ezekiel 44 entered the inner courts they couldnt come any way they choose, and likewise with worship and praise.
my 2 centzz
8) 8)
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2
Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. I John 2:15
We know the most creative person in the world, why we would need to copy the world when we could just ask for some inspiration?
Someone explain a tri-tone to me please.
Someone explain a tri-tone to me please.
I could give a theoretical example, but some of the comments touched on it. Here's a video example:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI6JCVTivoM[/url]
Thanks bro.
Does someone have a more instructional video on how tri-tones can be used?
Someone explain a tri-tone to me please.