Constructive Criticism vs. Judging

[fretai03]

Bill... we on the same page bruh. You don't have to convince me.

We've just put it in words & written in such a way that has meaning to us individually.

[JFunky]

The thing is everybody's not ment to be a teacher vocally. some people are supposed to lead by example. dont feel that you cant teach cats without vocal instuction when you let them see you do the right thing they may not say anything but there check'n you out. everybody has there set a side group of people there put on this earth to effect, the same thing applys musically. our words of wisdome are not ment for some cats, just like a good Pastor knows how to rightly divide the word for his people, we should do the same for our fellow musicians. help who you can and let the other cats do there thing they'll come around. Pastor preach to people won't get save he just has to find the right approach to get them. I dont mean to sound like the old man.lol! But I know me like a lot of you have been see'n this for years.

...very nice.  Don't feel old.  We need more and more Vets. to point us in the right direction.  That's why I like when Jeremy Haynes and you guys come around.  You guys have been there, done that and know that.  I've always liked being around the mature minded.

[MENDOZA]

First off, This is a great discussion!!!!!!!!  It's something that NEEDS to be discussed.  Some people may be offended by what others say and I totally understand that, but I agee with the whole let's "man up," but it's more than a pride thing.  It's being able to find that humility that God has given us.  We have to be able to take it and at least LISTEN!!! Cats don't want to listen nowadays.  All they want to do is hear the positive aspects of their playing.  If that's the case, then to me it tells me that you don't want to be a better musician let alone a better person.  Put it into this perspective if let's say T.D. Jakes came up to you and  said to you that he overheard a conversation you had with someone and I think you should have taken a different approach would you call him a hater?  Would you still give your "I'm Annoited speech?"  ( I am speaking in general)...

As cut throat as the music scene/business is, you have to be able to "man up," but take advice/criticism.  Like JFunky said, criticism can be both negative or positive, but you have to be open minded and secure with yourself as a Christian and not only a musician.  This is the way I feel about the music business, it's survival of the fittest.  If you can't take a critique or advice then we should not be trying to get into the music business scene. If you TRULY love the craft, you would be open to criticism, critique, etc. because it not only makes a better drummer, but person...that's my take.  I'm pretty sure Vinnie, Dennis, Weckl, Steve Smith, have had their share of Criticism and look at them....  Take care and God Bless.

Carlito

[bigblackdrummer]

I think the kids have become so idiotic and irrigation that they cant be told anything anymore!!! Everyone wants to believe that they have arrived (in their own minds) and by you telling them their timing sucks or they are too busy is hating on them and you are just a hater because youre not as good as them.

I love these guys because when I sit down I can do everything they are doing and do it clean and in their face, then they listen!!!!!

[SabianKnight]

I feel that if example- my co pastor or the main drummer or my worship leader tells me a comment you best beleive imma get on my grind because i feel that they know what there talking about. I remember my timing used to be OFF and when i used to play they used to tell me i need to work on my timing. so one day the lead drummer told me to get a metronome that i need to work on my timing i got on my grind bought a metronome practiced with the metronome and i aint take no offense to it at all bacause they were trying to better me. but if a random old lady comes up to me and tells me that i suck and i need to quit i aint gonna listen to her cause she dont know what she talking about! that criticism i do not take!!!!

One problem with you said above is that is you don't what this lady's musical apptitude is (so you really cannot discredit her). She could be a college music professor, or long-time professional music director or composer etc. Either way she doesn't have to prove herself you have to disprove her commentary through self-examination and demonstration of your own profeciency. You have to test her (their) hypothesis on yourself. You also don't know if she were led by the Lord to tell you something as a test to your discernment, or humility. However when you are constantly testing yourself through private lessons, instructional books, instructional DVDs, recitals, clinics, professional auditions then your response should be from factual surety. This surety should cause you to realize that there could be yet another level for you to aspire to revealed in the commentary. A challenged to dig for deeper understanding... (see you don't actually know something until you can teach another to do it).
 
I learned how to be musician on the drums/percussion from a french horn female player whom was my band director but could not play past method II but knew many levels past that.

There is an old saying that is tried and true: "When the student is ready, the teacher appears".
The harsh correction to this saying is that "When the student is broken the teacher is recognized."
Let's remember to seek wisdom and not fain it. Let's remember to have a broken and contrite spirit. Let's remember to serve in our purposes/roles with TRUE DILIGENCE and FERVERENCE because you perform like you practice (no study practice yields false fruit) and no acceptance of counsel yields troubled fruit. If we count it ll joy (strength) we will eventually learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

[drummin4JC]

One problem with you said above is that is you don't what this lady's musical apptitude is (so you really cannot discredit her). She could be a college music professor, or long-time professional music director or composer etc. Either way she doesn't have to prove herself you have to disprove her commentary through self-examination and demonstration of your own profeciency. You have to test her (their) hypothesis on yourself. You also don't know if she were led by the Lord to tell you something as a test to your discernment, or humility. However when you are constantly testing yourself through private lessons, instructional books, instructional DVDs, recitals, clinics, professional auditions then your response should be from factual surety. This surety should cause you to realize that there could be yet another level for you to aspire to revealed in the commentary. A challenged to dig for deeper understanding... (see you don't actually know something until you can teach another to do it).
 
I learned how to be musician on the drums/percussion from a french horn female player whom was my band director but could not play past method II but knew many levels past that.

There is an old saying that is tried and true: "When the student is ready, the teacher appears".
The harsh correction to this saying is that "When the student is broken the teacher is recognized."
Let's remember to seek wisdom and not fain it. Let's remember to have a broken and contrite spirit. Let's remember to serve in our purposes/roles with TRUE DILIGENCE and FERVERENCE because you perform like you practice (no study practice yields false fruit) and no acceptance of counsel yields troubled fruit. If we count it ll joy (strength) we will eventually learn to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

true that!!!!

[JFunky]

One problem with what you said above is that you don't know what this lady's musical apptitude is (so you really cannot discredit her). She could be a college music professor, or long-time professional music director or composer etc. Either way she doesn't have to prove herself you have to disprove her commentary through self-examination and demonstration of your own profeciency. You have to test her (their) hypothesis on yourself. You also don't know if she were led by the Lord to tell you something as a test to your discernment, or humility. However when you are constantly testing yourself through private lessons, instructional books, instructional DVDs, recitals, clinics, professional auditions then your response should be from factual surety. This surety should cause you to realize that there could be yet another level for you to aspire to revealed in the commentary. A challenged to dig for deeper understanding... (see you don't actually know something until you can teach another to do it).

...Sabe, I experienced something similar to this yesterday after church.  We were messing around playing a song that we've been putting together and an elder gentlemen of the church came over by the drums and just stood there.  I saw him but acted like I didn't see him for a minute.  Then I made I contact with him and he looked at me, smiled, nodded his head as if he agreed and liked what I was doing and left.  It was the most humbling thing for me.  Really it was.  I never thought I would experience it and I quickly thought about what you stated above.  It's true man....you never know who's out there and what people have done in their past or who's lives you touch.  The only thing you can do is be humble and appreciate everything and Praise God for everything.

...this was different and an all new part of "C.C." for me........Body Language.  He didn't even say a word man.  Not one.

[The Dojz]

I feel that if example- my co pastor or the main drummer or my worship leader tells me a comment you best beleive imma get on my grind because i feel that they know what there talking about. I remember my timing used to be OFF and when i used to play they used to tell me i need to work on my timing. so one day the lead drummer told me to get a metronome that i need to work on my timing i got on my grind bought a metronome practiced with the metronome and i aint take no offense to it at all bacause they were trying to better me. but if a random old lady comes up to me and tells me that i suck and i need to quit i aint gonna listen to her cause she dont know what she talking about! that criticism i do not take!!!!

Funny but a few years ago, one of the mothers of this chuch I used to play for told me one Sunday that I needed to turn my snares off or stop playing my snare drum cuz a drum aint suppose to sound like that!  She said that back in her day all the drums had a "boom"  sound!  Now whether that was criticism or hatin, I dont even know, but it was a wack comment.  So I agree 100% that some people just criticise to hear themselves talk.

[JFunky]

Funny but a few years ago, one of the mothers of this chuch I used to play for told me one Sunday that I needed to turn my snares off or stop playing my snare drum cuz a drum aint suppose to sound like that!  She said that back in her day all the drums had a "boom"  sound!  Now whether that was criticism or hatin, I dont even know, but it was a wack comment.  So I agree 100% that some people just criticise to hear themselves talk.

...dude, take the good and leave the bad.  She just gave you a lil' history.  Now it's your turn to find out why.  When you find out why, you're going to learn something new and apply it to something in your playing if you're willing to.   As a matter of fact, Steve Smith "The History of the U.S. Beat" DVD will give you the answer. lol  Always "listen" to what people say and analize it.  Just because she might've come off the wrong way doesn't mean that her intention to show you something new wasn't there.  We lose many teachings because we don't see past someone's "Attitude".  Be humble always.  Some people are not the best "People Persons" but that doesn't mean that you can't learn from 'em.

                                                                      - my 2 pennies