Where should I start?

[virtuousvessel]

OK, OK.....

I need yall's help.

I am so excited and ready to begin (with this music)...but I do not know where to start!  I can read music (I play sax), but Im so lazy  :roll:  that Ive always played by ear to keep from reading too much....

Well, Im out of the laziness....so where is a good point to start with the basics?  Ive downloaded some of the packets of info...but what should I do.....learn chords....or learn scales...or WHAT!?!?! 8O

[bug]

You said you play the sax.  You said you play by ear.  You said you do read read some, but maybe not real well.  Where do you start?

There are many unknown things about you.  First what do you sound like?
Tone is very important for a saxophone player.  What number thickness are the reeds that you use?  I suggest anything over a #3. Four's, and fives are thick enough to give you a full sound.  They don't bend as easily as three's or less.

Do you play tenor or alto saxophone?

I recommend finding a teacher.  The teacher should be able to play well, and answer questions.

Gospel music is written on traditional staffs, however most of it is not written down.  If you want to play Gospel Music I suggest that you start learning your intervals after you have a tone that sounds good.  You should play each pitch slowly as you compare distances between pitches.

You play one pitch at a time, rather than harmonies like keyboard or guitar but you should be able to hear distances and chord qualities.  If not start listening and imitating what you are hearing.

There are so many unanswered questions about you.  If you have been attending church for many years and singing Gospel Songs then you are that much ahead, but you have a long way to go.

Study to show yourself approved, a workman that shouldn't feel ashamed, because you know your craft.

brother scott

[virtuousvessel]

Thanks for the wise advice!  

 :lol: ...Ill let you know where I begin.

[jremon]

I just wanted to chime in. I am a fellow sax player as well and I have been playing in church over 15 years now. Although you may feel like you have started late, this is a wonderful time to begin. There are so many more resources out there than when I first started. I must agree with the earlier post. One of the most important things is to develop your tone. The main thing in this is to make sure that you have good equipment. Make sure that you have a saxophone that allows you to play with the sound you want. Many top level saxophonists use selmer or yamaha custom. These are top of the line professional models and are very expensive. If you can get one, it is well worth it. I, myself, play a vintage selmer mark vi alto and soprano. Other, favorite brands include Keilworth and the Cannonball.

     In addition, make sure that you have a mouthpiece that works for you. You must decide if you want a hard rubber jazz mouthpiece or if your embouchure is consistent enough to allow you to play on a metal mouthpiece. In terms of hard rubber mouthpieces, most musicians use meyer, lakey, or beechler. In terms of metal pieces, many musicians prefer dukoff, or beechler. The main thing is that you experiment and find a mouthpiece and reed combination that works for you. You can call a music company named the Woodwind and Brasswind and they will let you tryout mouthpieces on a mail order basis. Remember, the more open the mouthpiece, the softer the reed. The more closed the mouthpiece, the harder the reed should be. Strength four and five reeds really should not be used in this setting unless you shave them down enough to play on.

    I would recommend that you begin by making sure that you develop you ears and technique. When I say technique, of course I am talking about the speed of your fingers. Make sure that you know all of your scales. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Know ALL majors and minors. Learn the diminished, half - diminished, whole tone, and diminished whole tone. Also, be comfortable with blues scales and pentatonics and their various permutations. Make it your goal to play all of the major and minor scales in scale-tone seventh chords, thirds, fourths, fifths, etc throughout the entire range of the instrument. Remember, you can not play all of the great things that you may hear if you don't have the technique to do so.

    From a listening stand point, there are many great gospel saxophonists out there that many people may not know about. Do research and find their cds and listen as much as possible. On the top of the list, I would recommend Donald Hays. He has played with everyone from Ben Tankard to Yolanda Adams to the Colorado Mass Choir. As a matter of fact, you have probably heard him, but don't realize it. Of course, Angella Christie is out there as well. Other gospel sax players include Harold Rayford, Tony Smith, Rod Tate, John Lynch. Also, if you are looking for a tradition sound, check out Vernard Johnson and Jerone Lee. Also, young phenom making a name for himself is Jarrett Johnson. Get there cds and listen and copy what you hear. I hope this helps. Good Luck.


jremon aka Saxman1

[bug]

Thanks jremon.


I haven't played my saxophone in many years.

I did play for some big name jazz saxophonists over the years.  I played organ for Sonny Stittt, Red Holloway, Von Freeman and quite a few well known local Chicago jazz players.

They used thick reeds most of the time.  All of them had very big sounds.  I realize the mouthpiece facing has a lot to do with how much thickness you need on the reed to produce sound.  I never saw any of them use anything below a #4 reed.

I don't play anymore so I give up my authority to you jremon in this case.

You sound like you know what you are talking about.

When I was taking lessons I had a Selmer and a Selmer 3 star mouthpiece.  I took lessons from Eugene Rousseau, who was the world formost authority on classical saxophone.  He was Frenchman who came to the U.S after WWII.  He was a student of Adolphe Sax who invented the saxophone and to whose name the sax is named.

I suggest that anyone who wants to play an instrument, buy the very best instrument they can afford, and take lessons from the very best teacher that their money can buy.

I played as a young man but that was many years ago.  Many things have changed since the 1970's when I played.

brother scott

[jremon]

Hey Brother Scott,

     It sounds like you and I have a lot in common.  I am a HUGE Sonny Stitt fan. I have about 10 cds of Sonny Stitt that I listen to for inspiration. I always considered him as my "spiritual jazz father." His sound was great and his technique is PHENOMENAL!!!! So, I try to pattern myself out of that line of Bebop players: Parker-Cannonball-Stitt-Phil Woods. (You know, the hard boppers.)

     Also, much like you, I had the opportunity to study with one of the great classical saxophone players in the world as well. I studied with Harvey Pittel, professor of saxophone at UT - Austin. In addition, I just received my masters from Texas State - San Marcos and I studied with Doug Skinner for two semesters. I am going to go back and pursue a performance degree or jazz studies degree this next spring. Anyway, Pittel is out of that "French School" of playing as well. We modeled everthing off of the great saxophone master, Marcel Mule.

     Every player is going to have his/her preferences concerning equipment. The most important thing is to experiment with the various brands of horns, mouthpiece reed combinations, etc... And these days, there are many companies willing to let try things out at home and returen them for a small restocking fee. In addition, I agree with you 100%, if you have the ability to take lessons, do so. It makes the learning curve smaller.

God Bless!!!!



Jremon

[BBoy]

It would depend on what you want to do with your music.

Since you can already read music, which is quite an advantage, I would strongly suggest that you start with chord progressions and fitting them into songs.

I would also recommend that you begin picking out the melodies to songs that you really like and putting chords with it. That should give you a basis to work with.

Be Blessed!  

[bug]

jremon,

I am very impressed with your credentials.  You really know what you are talking about.

Ask your teacher if he has ever heard of Eugene Rousseau.  Eugene is out of the Marcel Mule school as well.

Write me a personal message.  We must stay in contact.  When my personal information comes up on the desktop just press PM.  I can receive personal messages from other members of this users group here at lgm.

You are studying in Texas.  That is outstanding.  You remind me of myself 30 years ago.

Until a person actually studies music at a conservatory, college or university they will really never have a clue as to what is really happening in music.  Studying with a private teacher gives you a good but limited picture.  When you can actually HEAR your peers, you can see the big picture.

The boppers developed music very quickly.  The golden era has past.  It won't be back again.  Critics and peoples changing tastes won't allow for the kind of quality that we once had in American music.  Music isn't taught properly in the schools anymore.  My teachers were good.  I was good, but there are so many people who have no clue as to what to listen for in music.  That is apparent when I read some of these posts.  My mother  and grandmother both played piano for churches.  My son on the other hand doesn't care to learn how to play anything.  He likes to play video games.  He is missing a golden opportunity to learn how to play, but doesn't want to.  He listens to rap.  So he is pretty much lost.  He's 15 so maybe he will mature.  Only God knows.

You are preparing yourself for something that is not a practical occupation.  What do your parents say?

I went into music education so that I could fall back on a regular job.  My parents were okay with that.  I got my Master's from Indiana University in 1980, and spent twenty years teaching other peoples children, while playing for churches throughout the whole ordeal.

Are jobs plentiful in Texas?  They were plentiful back in my home town during my youth, but things have really slowed down in the Industrial North these days.

May your journey in music be as enjoyable as it has been for me.

I would love to hear how you sound.

Peace and blessings,

brother scott

[playhear]

I wouldn't be a bad idea to learn basics of piano, in conjunction with your saxophone studies.

[bug]

Masters from Texas State.  Trust me he's been through the drill on piano.  He might be able to play piano pretty well.  I was amazed at my highschool band teachers ability to play piano, because He was a trombone major.  He played chords by ear very well.  He could accompany any vocalist. Tillman Buggs had a master's from Indiana University. I studied with Dave Baker in jazz improvisation.  Dave could play piano very well also, but was a trombonist. He was in a bad car accident in the 50's after being selected as talent worthy of greater recognition by Downbeat magazine.  His face got messed-up and he lost his embouchure due to lack of facial muscle control.  He learned cello, and then later string bass.  I guess he could really hear those low vibrations well.  I'm a baritone so I have a fondness for low vibrations.

It is not easy making your living in life as a musician.  You have just made a very serious decision regarding your future. Jremon don't be surprised if you end up doing something other than music for a living.
Some music graduates end up in an office wondering what went wrong.  Nothing went wrong.  Its just reality.  Very few will ever make a full-time living from music.  Some will make a part-time living.  Others will sell their instrument over time and go on to other things. One I admire is Charles Ives who was an insurance salesman by day and a composer by night.  He went to work and made money, then practiced music in his spare time.

brother scott

[playhear]

Masters from Texas State.  Trust me he's been through the drill on piano.  He might be able to play piano pretty well.  I was amazed at my highschool band teachers ability to play piano, because He was a trombone major.  He played chords by ear very well.  He could accompany any vocalist. Tillman Buggs had a master's from Indiana University. I studied with Dave Baker in jazz improvisation.  Dave could play piano very well also, but was a trombonist. He was in a bad car accident in the 50's after being selected as talent worthy of greater recognition by Downbeat magazine.  His face got messed-up and he lost his embouchure due to lack of facial muscle control.  He learned cello, and then later string bass.  I guess he could really hear those low vibrations well.  I'm a baritone so I have a fondness for low vibrations.

It is not easy making your living in life as a musician.  You have just made a very serious decision regarding your future. Jremon don't be surprised if you end up doing something other than music for a living.
Some music graduates end up in an office wondering what went wrong.  Nothing went wrong.  Its just reality.  Very few will ever make a full-time living from music.  Some will make a part-time living.  Others will sell their instrument over time and go on to other things. One I admire is Charles Ives who was an insurance salesman by day and a composer by night.  He went to work and made money, then practiced music in his spare time.

brother scott

In my last post, I was responding to the original poster, not to Jremon or whoever. She said she played sax, which is about all the background I know about her.

[bug]

play hear my mistake.  Sorry your reference was to the original saxophone player who didn't tell us much about him/her self.  Your post did give me a chance to add another post to my collection of posts.  There are some people on here who have a thousand or more posts.  I'm slowly trying to catch up.  At 250 or so I'm strictly a beginner.

You have a good point.  I think all musicians need an intellectual understanding of the keyboard.

brother scott