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Author Topic: Is it safe to say that a double pedal drummer is the equivalent to a...........  (Read 10185 times)

Offline 3rd-Day

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........Keyboard player that transposes!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? Im not a drummer so you let me know!!!
Im too tall to act small.

MaestroDivine

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........Keyboard player that transposes!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? Im not a drummer so you let me know!!!

You will probably get back-hand slapped for this one .... but, GOD BLESS YOU ANYWAY!!





















J/K

I only PREFER single-pedal. I'm not going to kid myself into thinking that playing a single is more difficult.

Offline SabianKnight

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........Keyboard player that transposes!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? Im not a drummer so you let me know!!!

Absolutley NOT.

Most single players do not have 4-way independence or coordination which makes them a less complete drummer. They don't even use their left foot o nthe hihat any more these days. That is an incoplete drumset player.

Playing a double pedal good takes more control than playing a single pedal.

Being able to lead with either hand & foot be you a single pedal or double pedal user is the ultimate that any drumset player should strive for. Single pedal urban music & gospel music players just quite frankley don't want to put in the time to develop ambidexterity. We are punks. Just like organ players that cannot work pedals or any keyboard player that does not have left ahand independence and pedal control. All it takes is for us to want to REALLY BE THE BEST WE CANE BE.
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Offline Audiocr381ve

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Yes it is the equivalent to transposing to most musicians, mainly drummers. Some of the more experienced wise ones won't look at it as a bad thing but as something you use to expand your playing.

When the day is done, the people buying the CDs, the people keeping us in business, THEY COULDN'T CARE LESS. I've never came across a non-musician who's said "all double bass? You're cheating!!!!"

Has anybody ran into that guy yet?

Offline SabianKnight

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Louis Bellson started using double bass drums in 1935-38. No one else did it until the 60s (like 65-68). He is like 85-90 years old now still playing double bass drums.

I'll say it again. We are some punks these days especially in the United States because we have no self discipline. The drumset is an American istrument created by African-Americans and we are not the Master of it. We will not take our rightful place in Dominion of this instrument. We let folk from other countries and ethinncity blow us Americans out of the water. We are punks, FREE to be medicocre. In alll our freedom we choose to be lees than...
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rjthakid

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........Keyboard player that transposes!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? Im not a drummer so you let me know!!!

This is one of the most common untruths when it comes to playing the drums.  Many of the best drummers in the world use double bass pedals, and still people think "hey you're not hardcore, ur using a double"   ::) please.

Fact of the matter is, once you develop superior chops on the double bass pedal, there are things you can do that NO single pedal player can do (There are single pedal players who are BLAZING fast, but being superfast with two feet is better than being superfast with one!).

It's not cheating.  It's not taking a shortcut.....however, I think it's important to learn how to play both ways.  I've heard Double Bass monster Mike Portnoy say he enjoys switching to a single pedal every once in a while.  Even though there are things that are simply impossible to do with a single pedal, it forces him to use more creativity.

So I only have a problem with it if you can ONLY play with a double bass.  Then it becomes a crutch.

MaestroDivine

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........Keyboard player that transposes!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? Im not a drummer so you let me know!!!

This is one of the most common untruths when it comes to playing the drums.  Many of the best drummers in the world use double bass pedals, and still people think "hey you're not hardcore, ur using a double"   ::) please.

Fact of the matter is, once you develop superior chops on the double bass pedal, there are things you can do that NO single pedal player can do (There are single pedal players who are BLAZING fast, but being superfast with two feet is better than being superfast with one!).

It's not cheating.  It's not taking a shortcut.....however, I think it's important to learn how to play both ways.  I've heard Double Bass monster Mike Portnoy say he enjoys switching to a single pedal every once in a while.  Even though there are things that are simply impossible to do with a single pedal, it forces him to use more creativity.

So I only have a problem with it if you can ONLY play with a double bass.  Then it becomes a crutch.


I like single-pedal, 'cause of what I hear double-bass guys doing. Don't tell me what I can't accomplish with a single ... I'm not gon' listen. I'll butt my head into a wall of impossibility ... until it knocks me unconscious(I give up..) or I break through it. At the end of the day, I'm gon' know the limits, not be told them.

MaestroDivine

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........Keyboard player that transposes!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? Im not a drummer so you let me know!!!

This is one of the most common untruths when it comes to playing the drums.  Many of the best drummers in the world use double bass pedals, and still people think "hey you're not hardcore, ur using a double"   ::) please.

Fact of the matter is, once you develop superior chops on the double bass pedal, there are things you can do that NO single pedal player can do (There are single pedal players who are BLAZING fast, but being superfast with two feet is better than being superfast with one!).

It's not cheating.  It's not taking a shortcut.....however, I think it's important to learn how to play both ways.  I've heard Double Bass monster Mike Portnoy say he enjoys switching to a single pedal every once in a while.  Even though there are things that are simply impossible to do with a single pedal, it forces him to use more creativity.

So I only have a problem with it if you can ONLY play with a double bass.  Then it becomes a crutch.


I like single-pedal, 'cause of what I hear double-bass guys doing. Don't tell me what I can't accomplish with a single ... I'm not gon' listen. I'll butt my head into a wall of impossibility ... until it knocks me unconscious(I give up..) or I break through it. At the end of the day, I'm gon' know the limits, not be told them.

...and since my mind won't accept impossibility, I'll probably die using a single.

I'm a minimalist to the core. I love Virgil, and those guys ... however, for what I'M trying to accomplish, it IS cheating. It's not even an option. Back in the day, when Art Tatum was playing on the radio .... professionals, and amateurs thought it was three guys playing at once.

See, I've been allowed to read too many bio's of musicians who were superhuman on their instrument. Now, I use their successes, and inspiration ... to go beyond what many believe is possible. It may be ridiculous to some ... but, it's not to me.

Offline SabianKnight

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........Keyboard player that transposes!!!!!!!! ??? ??? ??? Im not a drummer so you let me know!!!

This is one of the most common untruths when it comes to playing the drums.  Many of the best drummers in the world use double bass pedals, and still people think "hey you're not hardcore, ur using a double"   ::) please.

Fact of the matter is, once you develop superior chops on the double bass pedal, there are things you can do that NO single pedal player can do (There are single pedal players who are BLAZING fast, but being superfast with two feet is better than being superfast with one!).

It's not cheating.  It's not taking a shortcut.....however, I think it's important to learn how to play both ways.  I've heard Double Bass monster Mike Portnoy say he enjoys switching to a single pedal every once in a while.  Even though there are things that are simply impossible to do with a single pedal, it forces him to use more creativity.

So I only have a problem with it if you can ONLY play with a double bass.  Then it becomes a crutch.


I like single-pedal, 'cause of what I hear double-bass guys doing. Don't tell me what I can't accomplish with a single ... I'm not gon' listen. I'll butt my head into a wall of impossibility ... until it knocks me unconscious(I give up..) or I break through it. At the end of the day, I'm gon' know the limits, not be told them.

...and since my mind won't accept impossibility, I'll probably die using a single.

I'm a minimalist to the core. I love Virgil, and those guys ... however, for what I'M trying to accomplish, it IS cheating. It's not even an option. Back in the day, when Art Tatum was playing on the radio .... professionals, and amateurs thought it was three guys playing at once.

See, I've been allowed to read too many bio's of musicians who were superhuman on their instrument. Now, I use their successes, and inspiration ... to go beyond what many believe is possible. It may be ridiculous to some ... but, it's not to me.

It is highly admirable doc! That how we should grow. I feel you man.
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline porkpiepoppa

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well.... please dont eat me alive but..... i feel that alot ALOT of people with double bass pedals or double bass drum kits just have um so they can do stuff i can do with one foot like the double flams around the set thing and just doubles or they do the machine gun(i cant STAND that mess) and i dont think doing that is very musical my opinion no one can change it. i dont care who you are if ur just doing 32nds on the double bass and soloing its EXTREMLEy annoying and sounds like abunch of noise i will say yes the masters use double pedals but hmmm... from experience imma do blackwells technique u get more respect and he uses his double pedals only when itd be impossible but i see what u mean for the 4 way independence but we gotta keep it real about 70% of the people with double pedals cant do fast enough doubles on single pedals so the got them a double pedal....my opinion..god bless
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MaestroDivine

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well.... please dont eat me alive but..... i feel that alot ALOT of people with double bass pedals or double bass drum kits just have um so they can do stuff i can do with one foot like the double flams around the set thing and just doubles or they do the machine gun(i cant STAND that mess) and i dont think doing that is very musical my opinion no one can change it. i dont care who you are if ur just doing 32nds on the double bass and soloing its EXTREMLEy annoying and sounds like abunch of noise i will say yes the masters use double pedals but hmmm... from experience imma do blackwells technique u get more respect and he uses his double pedals only when itd be impossible but i see what u mean for the 4 way independence but we gotta keep it real about 70% of the people with double pedals cant do fast enough doubles on single pedals so the got them a double pedal....my opinion..god bless

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Offline SabianKnight

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well.... please dont eat me alive but..... i feel that alot ALOT of people with double bass pedals or double bass drum kits just have um so they can do stuff i can do with one foot like the double flams around the set thing and just doubles or they do the machine gun(i cant STAND that mess) and i dont think doing that is very musical my opinion no one can change it. i dont care who you are if ur just doing 32nds on the double bass and soloing its EXTREMLEy annoying and sounds like abunch of noise i will say yes the masters use double pedals but hmmm... from experience imma do blackwells technique u get more respect and he uses his double pedals only when itd be impossible but i see what u mean for the 4 way independence but we gotta keep it real about 70% of the people with double pedals cant do fast enough doubles on single pedals so the got them a double pedal....my opinion..god bless

You comments about a vast majority of double pedal player sis true. However the fact of  4 way independence /interdependence is there.  Which is my point.

The top guys like Thomas, Virgil, Mike Mangini, Akira Jimbo know how to work it in a musical sense be it single or double. They also have that independence thing going. As does Jojo Mayer, Keith Carlock etc.

The thing is not whether you can lpay double pedal but whether you can play music on the drumset at the highest level. The drumset deands 4-way independence PERIOD. It also demands ambidexterity (making up a word huh). NOT OPINION JUST FACT.
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rjthakid

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Knowing how to play with a Double Bass pedal is an art.  Of course there are people who abuse it.  But learning how to use it in a musical sense (as Sabe pointed out) is a way to expand your playing.

How can you argue against adding a weapon to your arsenal?

How can you argue against growth?

There is a right way to play double bass and a wrong way.  Just because you hear people play the wrong way, DOESN'T mean you CAN'T play the right way. 

Are we really that concerned with the respect of our drumming peers?  I'm not.

Don't fear change!  Embrace it!

Offline porkpiepoppa

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well.... please dont eat me alive but..... i feel that alot ALOT of people with double bass pedals or double bass drum kits just have um so they can do stuff i can do with one foot like the double flams around the set thing and just doubles or they do the machine gun(i cant STAND that mess) and i dont think doing that is very musical my opinion no one can change it. i dont care who you are if ur just doing 32nds on the double bass and soloing its EXTREMLEy annoying and sounds like abunch of noise i will say yes the masters use double pedals but hmmm... from experience imma do blackwells technique u get more respect and he uses his double pedals only when itd be impossible but i see what u mean for the 4 way independence but we gotta keep it real about 70% of the people with double pedals cant do fast enough doubles on single pedals so the got them a double pedal....my opinion..god bless

You comments about a vast majority of double pedal player sis true. However the fact of 4 way independence /interdependence is there. Which is my point.

The top guys like Thomas, Virgil, Mike Mangini, Akira Jimbo know how to work it in a musical sense be it single or double. They also have that independence thing going. As does Jojo Mayer, Keith Carlock etc.

The thing is not whether you can lpay double pedal but whether you can play music on the drumset at the highest level. The drumset deands 4-way independence PERIOD. It also demands ambidexterity (making up a word huh). NOT OPINION JUST FACT.


im finna say somethin real stupid but it popped in my mind after reading this... ok i understand the fourway independence thing but.... 1 howcome none of those guys are playing gospel music personally when i listen to them yes its musicall and they are REALLY talented but if heard that in a gospel song itd be too much going on... i know that as musicians we hsouldnt limit our self to just a few similar styles(gospel funk rnb are alike to me) but is it REALLY necessary isnt there alot of great musicians that are getting by with a single pedal... or is a double bass pedal needed cuz in gospel the only time i hear double bass pedals is at the end of the song when erones going all crazy"finale" i dont really here them use it in a beat or any thing pleez school me.. god bless sabe you have really helped ALOT in my drumming i forgot to tell you.  oh yeah and i just read the post na im sayin if you go to a geetar center drum comp(competitions is the only time i really see double bass pedals would you be impressed with a dude doing super fast patterns with 1 foot or someone doin the same thing with 2 feet? maybe thas just me sorry.. just wondering cuz ive always been taught not to respect double pedals till i came to this site now i have a  new outlook
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Offline min_amw

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Just to chime in.....Everyone doesn't need to use a double-pedal to be the best that they can be. If a person chooses not to use a double-pedal, does that limit his coordination? No. Will that stop him/her from learning 4-way independance? Certainly not. Does that make him/her an inferior player? Not at all. All styles of music don't call for double-bass playing. It is an option and the only person who can determine the need is the player.
On the other hand, if double bass playing is required in the music and you don't have that skill to call upon, that piece of music can suffer without that element. But then again, that is where creativity and innovation comes in. If a person follows every trend in music and playing, how can they discover their voice and personality in the music? They won't be able to because they'll be too busy being "trendy".
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JFunky

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Gospel Drummers that use 4 way Coordination:  Marvin McQuitty, Christopher Coleman, Gerald Heyward, Teddy Campbell to name a few.

Gospel Drummers that use a double pedal: Marvin McQuitty, Christopher Coleman and a few others I can't think of right now.

The point is to learn 4 way Coordination.  I personally would use a double pedal for Special Effect licks or patterns.  You know, at the Climax of a song or something.  I do feel that what Gospel Drummers lack is there Hi hat foot work.  We tend to have 3 way Coordination.  It's the truth.

Eccentric-Rhythm

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Gospel Drummers that use 4 way Coordination:  Marvin McQuitty, Christopher Coleman, Gerald Heyward, Teddy Campbell to name a few.

Gospel Drummers that use a double pedal: Marvin McQuitty, Christopher Coleman and a few others I can't think of right now.

The point is to learn 4 way Coordination.  I personally would use a double pedal for Special Effect licks or patterns.  You know, at the Climax of a song or something.  I do feel that what Gospel Drummers lack is there Hi hat foot work.  We tend to have 3 way Coordination.  It's the truth.

AMEN!!!
I dont think I can say it any louder!!!!!! HELLO.....Playing Single bass is fine...no problem. playing Double bass is fine...no problem. its not cheating...

WHERE THE CHEATING IS, IS FOR SOMEONE TO SAY THAT I DONT NEED 4 WAY INDEPENDENCE. If you are playing single bass, you left foot should be able to make fire come out of the hit hats....

The point is, whatever the method....double bass or single and hats.... we have 2 FEET... we need to learn how to use the 2 FEET...

WE play the drums with 2 hands...or are we going to say, oh its cheating to use your left hand...just use your right. could you pull off half of the stuff you pull off with one hand? I THINK NOT.

Can you walk with one leg??? unassisted????

Could you play keys, with one hand??? you could pick out Melody...or play chords, but you cant do both.

God gave us a mouth, heart, 2 arms, 2 legs....why....to PRAISE HIM....and thats what I am going to do!!! Why should I rob my left leg of a Blessing from Praising God, because someone thinks I am cheating.....

LONG LIVE 4 WAY INDEPENDENCE!!!! I AINT THERE YET, BUT I WILL BE.

MUCH LOVE. ;D ;D

God Bless.

Offline SabianKnight

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well.... please dont eat me alive but..... i feel that alot ALOT of people with double bass pedals or double bass drum kits just have um so they can do stuff i can do with one foot like the double flams around the set thing and just doubles or they do the machine gun(i cant STAND that mess) and i dont think doing that is very musical my opinion no one can change it. i dont care who you are if ur just doing 32nds on the double bass and soloing its EXTREMLEy annoying and sounds like abunch of noise i will say yes the masters use double pedals but hmmm... from experience imma do blackwells technique u get more respect and he uses his double pedals only when itd be impossible but i see what u mean for the 4 way independence but we gotta keep it real about 70% of the people with double pedals cant do fast enough doubles on single pedals so the got them a double pedal....my opinion..god bless

You comments about a vast majority of double pedal player sis true. However the fact of 4 way independence /interdependence is there. Which is my point.

The top guys like Thomas, Virgil, Mike Mangini, Akira Jimbo know how to work it in a musical sense be it single or double. They also have that independence thing going. As does Jojo Mayer, Keith Carlock etc.

The thing is not whether you can lpay double pedal but whether you can play music on the drumset at the highest level. The drumset deands 4-way independence PERIOD. It also demands ambidexterity (making up a word huh). NOT OPINION JUST FACT.


im finna say somethin real stupid but it popped in my mind after reading this... ok i understand the fourway independence thing but.... 1 howcome none of those guys are playing gospel music personally when i listen to them yes its musicall and they are REALLY talented but if heard that in a gospel song itd be too much going on... i know that as musicians we hsouldnt limit our self to just a few similar styles(gospel funk rnb are alike to me) but is it REALLY necessary isnt there alot of great musicians that are getting by with a single pedal... or is a double bass pedal needed cuz in gospel the only time i hear double bass pedals is at the end of the song when erones going all crazy"finale" i dont really here them use it in a beat or any thing pleez school me.. god bless sabe you have really helped ALOT in my drumming i forgot to tell you.  oh yeah and i just read the post na im sayin if you go to a geetar center drum comp(competitions is the only time i really see double bass pedals would you be impressed with a dude doing super fast patterns with 1 foot or someone doin the same thing with 2 feet? maybe thas just me sorry.. just wondering cuz ive always been taught not to respect double pedals till i came to this site now i have a  new outlook

Speed be it single or double pedal doesn't overly impress me. CONTROL does. Being able to sustain complicated patterns and not detract from the music, keep time, groove and lift the rest of the musicians to a higher level is most important to me. The control that brought Virgil, Thomas , Mike Mangin and Jojo Mayer their speed that's what impresses me, that what I want. THey play rhythmic and musical patterns. They play multiple time signatures at once. They can play patterns at show speed with their left foot. That impresses me. That is need in urban music so that folks won't lean so much on machines to fix their problems with time.

I again bring up the fact that John Blackwell jacked up a whole song at MD fest because he canno tuse his left foot. His beater either broke or came out and he  just played snare, toms and cymbals for like 3-5 minutes. Whille sitting there with a perfectly good left bass drum pedal and beater. That proves my point. All this one-side development leaves you at a disadvantage. Become complete. It has happened to me on stage... now I am by far not the player John Blackwell is but I DID PLAY ME LEFT BASS PEDAL WITH MY LEFT FOOT AND FINISHED THE SONG PROPER. What will you be able to when it happens to you.
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Offline cymbalman

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well Mr.3rday..........i will way that there is no number for how many times i've had this discussion...........and you just might have started one of those 60 post discussions that i once heard about..........hahahah........but i will say that eccentricrythm just made me crak up caz i aint neva heard it lyke dat b4.....hahalol(no really........lol).......but has anyone seen that tony royster jr clip of him when he was 12......that's what made me wanna use a double pedal foreal though...............my single foot speed is good and consistently increasing, and of course i gotta have the 4-way independence for my latin grooves and jazz solos..........so im still workin on that (i've been watchin horacio........o my lawd talk about independence).....but as far as church goes.........really the only time i use the double pedal is at the end of a song when i don't feel like rolling so i just do 1millionth notes with the doubkick.......haha........and singles wit the open high hat........you know those type that be like praaaaaaaaaaaaaise...crack............p ause......(clap from the director) praaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aa^iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeee....crack..................haha.....

or when i wanna do some just plain.......stupid fills and licks wit the loose phrasing style...........you know them type that you be lyke.......dag what in the world did I just do....
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Offline cymbalman

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I again bring up the fact that John Blackwell jacked up a whole song at MD fest because he canno tuse his left foot. His beater either broke or came out and he  just played snare, toms and cymbals for like 3-5 minutes. Whille sitting there with a perfectly good left bass drum pedal and beater. That proves my point. All this one-side development leaves you at a disadvantage. Become complete. It has happened to me on stage... now I am by far not the player John Blackwell is but I DID PLAY ME LEFT BASS PEDAL WITH MY LEFT FOOT AND FINISHED THE SONG PROPER. What will you be able to when it happens to you.



uh oh ...........that'scary imbout to go practice right now
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