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Should "active" homosexuals be allowed to sing, play, or service the church?

Yes, absolutely
12 (18.5%)
No, absolutely
41 (63.1%)
Yes, but with limitations
3 (4.6%)
Maybe, depends on the circumstances and the church
4 (6.2%)
Not certain
5 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Voting closed: April 07, 2006, 01:41:29 AM

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Author Topic: Active Homosexuality Within the Church  (Read 16896 times)

Offline cutechell

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2006, 05:04:23 AM »
 :( :(  It hurts my heart to read so many fleshy thoughts on this issue,,,yes its just plain fleshie... followers of Christ know to leave all jugument to God... I love the Lord.. He heard my cry.. I have struggled with this lifestyle for years and for years I called myself a homosexual and I was saved... But oppressed and didn't know. However, today I dont consider myself a labled sin,but " a sinner saved by grace" Yes my sin was much more visible then the adulterer or fornicator but it is all a sin and people tend to rebuke the person and not the sin.  For years I allowed  that hollier then thou attitude from others,  to keep me from the church even though I loved the Lord and I too needed to be under the word just like everyone else, I just didn't feel any Godly love from those people in the very places that are to be a sort of refuge from the world. Today because God changed my heart and spirit I dont forsake the fellowship of my brothers and sisters in Christ even though there are a few that will always think of myself and others as the plaque ,Yes I might always keep a pimp to my walk, but does that say that I am ACTIVE gay or that brother my always keep that soft pitch voice does say that he is ACTIVE gay.  I understand and know in my heart that everyday is a daily reprieve from something and it doesn't have to be just be a lust issue, but anything like gossip or overeatting. Now I'm not saying that I intend on abusing God's grace either. But there is a process one goes through to take on the new spirit man (The renewing of the mind) To some I might still look like I'm gay, because I'm not married and I dont want to get married some folk just arent to be, that is for me. But those persons only look at the suface because thats all they can tap into.. [But no one should tell another that they cant be of service to the body of Christ because they "look like" they are active in a sin.. thats stimga.. thats just crazy. Who am I to tell someone" Ok it appears to me that you haven't had a lustful thought for about six months so we want to welcome you back in the choir" I dont have that power no one does.We are all broken living in this flesh until we take on our new bodies. Praise the Lord for that day. I sing in the choir today because he gave me that gift for song and he is perfect in all his ways. My ablity to use this gift that he givin me allows me to be of service for him, and this help me While he is still working a renewal in me everyday.Thats my walk with Christ,I know that everyone falls short, we have to pray for each other not to though. Because souls aren't being reached with all that jugdment mess...God's Love was the attraction that bought me out from the world.

rjthakid

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #61 on: September 25, 2006, 11:16:44 AM »
:( :(  It hurts my heart to read so many fleshy thoughts on this issue,,,yes its just plain fleshie... followers of Christ know to leave all jugument to God... I love the Lord.. He heard my cry.. I have struggled with this lifestyle for years and for years I called myself a homosexual and I was saved... But oppressed and didn't know. However, today I dont consider myself a labled sin,but " a sinner saved by grace" Yes my sin was much more visible then the adulterer or fornicator but it is all a sin and people tend to rebuke the person and not the sin.  For years I allowed  that hollier then thou attitude from others,  to keep me from the church even though I loved the Lord and I too needed to be under the word just like everyone else, I just didn't feel any Godly love from those people in the very places that are to be a sort of refuge from the world. Today because God changed my heart and spirit I dont forsake the fellowship of my brothers and sisters in Christ even though there are a few that will always think of myself and others as the plaque ,Yes I might always keep a pimp to my walk, but does that say that I am ACTIVE gay or that brother my always keep that soft pitch voice does say that he is ACTIVE gay.  I understand and know in my heart that everyday is a daily reprieve from something and it doesn't have to be just be a lust issue, but anything like gossip or overeatting. Now I'm not saying that I intend on abusing God's grace either. But there is a process one goes through to take on the new spirit man (The renewing of the mind) To some I might still look like I'm gay, because I'm not married and I dont want to get married some folk just arent to be, that is for me. But those persons only look at the suface because thats all they can tap into.. [But no one should tell another that they cant be of service to the body of Christ because they "look like" they are active in a sin.. thats stimga.. thats just crazy. Who am I to tell someone" Ok it appears to me that you haven't had a lustful thought for about six months so we want to welcome you back in the choir" I dont have that power no one does.We are all broken living in this flesh until we take on our new bodies. Praise the Lord for that day. I sing in the choir today because he gave me that gift for song and he is perfect in all his ways. My ablity to use this gift that he givin me allows me to be of service for him, and this help me While he is still working a renewal in me everyday.Thats my walk with Christ,I know that everyone falls short, we have to pray for each other not to though. Because souls aren't being reached with all that jugdment mess...God's Love was the attraction that bought me out from the world.

No Judgement.

I was not referring to those who LOOK like they're active.  I'm referring to those who ARE active and have confessed to being active.

I commend you on turning your life around.  I'm not a pastor yet, but when I am, I would receive you and anyone else into the fellowship with open arms.

As God has forgotten your past, so would I. 

BUT

Until I see a certain walk with God, one cannot minister, whether that be singing, playing an instrument, preaching, etc.

That does not ONLY apply to homosexuality.

The only requirement is that you have clean hands and a pure heart.  If you have stopped doing what you were doing, then you DESERVE to be on the choir, because FEELINGS aren't a sin.  You can't control your feelings, but you CAN control your actions. 

No judgement took place in my post.  The fact of the matter is: Sin is Sin.  The reason why homosexuality has been singled out is because it's become politically incorrect to speak against homosexuality.  There are now Gay Catholic priests.  Lying and kiilling is still wrong, but in the minds of some, speaking against homosexuality is the equivalent of bigotry.

If every word out of someones mouth is a lie, they shouldn't lead in ministry.  If some one is fornicating, they shouldn't lead in ministry.  If someone is a thief, they shouldn't lead in ministry.  If someone is an ACTIVE homosexual (not merely suspected, but KNOWN to be active) they should NOT LEAD IN MINISTRY. 

This is not an attack on homosexuals, but a stand for righteousness.  You've turned your life around, and have taken the same stand for righteousness.  I love you, and pray your continued strength in the Lord.   :)

rjthakid

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2006, 11:32:27 AM »

 :D :D :D   LMBO, but see so how you know that's his boyfriend?  ;D ?/?  We can assume and speculate, but until we had the facts we can't say the Kwane or Dee-Dee are gay or lesbian, and even if they are overly feminine or masculine, that still doesn't give anyone any right to say they are.  Oh, and just remember that not all masculine men and Feminine  women are straight. 

And the other thing is like you said Nakia, how woluld you know that so and so was at the club bumpin & grinding?   But you don't want that to be addressed do you?  :-X ::)  That is the problem that a lot of peoople have with "church folk", so many are quick to point the finger about WHAT THEY THINK THEY KNOW ABOUT SO & SO, or how so and so acts, or dresses, or where they were seen and with who, doing whatever, but WHAT ARE YOU DOING THAT YOUR HOUSE IS SO CLEAN?!?!?!?!  Let somebody mention about you have 6 kids by 5 different men, and only 1 of them being by your husband, or you Bro. James being married but got Kee-Kee knocked up not once but twice, while you were married, you don't wanna talk about that do you? ::) ?/? :-X

Sin is sin.  We're addressing homosexuality because that's the topic of THIS THREAD.  Your post reminds of Adam and Eve when they were caught. 

Adam: "What about Eve?  SHE GAVE ME THE FRUIT!!!"

Eve: "What about the Serpent?  HE BEGUILED ME!!!"

lol.  Sin is sin.  ALL sin is wrong.  We cannot justify our faults by saying: "Hey we all have faults.  That means MY fault is ok!!!" 

Yes, we all have faults.  But we must try to CORRECT them.  Sin is STILL wrong.  I make mistakes like everyone else.  No one is perfect.  But we should strive for perfection!

Grace must not be abused.

B_XALTED

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2006, 12:05:15 PM »
some are bold enough to let you know they are "active"

Sometimes if they don't say it, their other half is going around talking about it, esp. if the other half is not in the church and not trying to hide it.

Tru dat...

Offline Lady E

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2006, 12:05:50 PM »
Sin is sin.  We're addressing homosexuality because that's the topic of THIS THREAD.  Your post reminds of Adam and Eve when they were caught. 

Adam: "What about Eve?  SHE GAVE ME THE FRUIT!!!"

Eve: "What about the Serpent?  HE BEGUILED ME!!!"

lol.  Sin is sin.  ALL sin is wrong.  We cannot justify our faults by saying: "Hey we all have faults.  That means MY fault is ok!!!" 

Yes, we all have faults.  But we must try to CORRECT them.  Sin is STILL wrong.  I make mistakes like everyone else.  No one is perfect.  But we should strive for perfection!

Grace must not be abused.
No Judgement.

I was not referring to those who LOOK like they're active.  I'm referring to those who ARE active and have confessed to being active.

I commend you on turning your life around.  I'm not a pastor yet, but when I am, I would receive you and anyone else into the fellowship with open arms.

As God has forgotten your past, so would I. 

BUT

Until I see a certain walk with God, one cannot minister, whether that be singing, playing an instrument, preaching, etc.

That does not ONLY apply to homosexuality.

The only requirement is that you have clean hands and a pure heart.  If you have stopped doing what you were doing, then you DESERVE to be on the choir, because FEELINGS aren't a sin.  You can't control your feelings, but you CAN control your actions. 

No judgement took place in my post.  The fact of the matter is: Sin is Sin.  The reason why homosexuality has been singled out is because it's become politically incorrect to speak against homosexuality.  There are now Gay Catholic priests.  Lying and kiilling is still wrong, but in the minds of some, speaking against homosexuality is the equivalent of bigotry.

If every word out of someones mouth is a lie, they shouldn't lead in ministry.  If some one is fornicating, they shouldn't lead in ministry.  If someone is a thief, they shouldn't lead in ministry.  If someone is an ACTIVE homosexual (not merely suspected, but KNOWN to be active) they should NOT LEAD IN MINISTRY. 

This is not an attack on homosexuals, but a stand for righteousness.  You've turned your life around, and have taken the same stand for righteousness.  I love you, and pray your continued strength in the Lord.   :)

Well put Sir!!  

I know those responses came straight from the Holy Ghost!  No Judgement involved here... Much love for everyone, but right is right.  I pray that anyone who was offended by your post will take time to look a little closer and actually read the words in your post, with an open mind.  They'll see that there is No judgement involved!  It's tight but nevertheless it's right

Later Family :)  

Offline 4hisglory

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2006, 12:11:17 PM »
Welcome bartone8 and cuteshell
:)

B_XALTED

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #66 on: September 25, 2006, 12:30:05 PM »
Welcome bartone8 and cuteshell

1100+ posts later, and you never welcomed me.... LOL!! Kidding.

Offline djmiller

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #67 on: September 25, 2006, 03:36:07 PM »
Praise the Lord,
This is a very interesting topic. It's very sad to see where the church stands on a lot of issues. Homosexuality should be held on the same standard as fornication, lying, stealing, etc. It's all sin and if the pastor knows issues like these are running rampant in their churches then they need to handle the situation point blank. People keep repeating the same scriptures about how "we all fall short", "saved by grace", "let him without sin cast the first stone", etc.Yes those are all true but don't get on here and quote scriptures and not truly understand the distinct meaning behind them. We're not judging by rebuking sin here. If pastors were truly under the annointing of GOD and were living right they would not knowingly allow this stuff to happen. We fail to talk about what really matters here. Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. It's not easy by no means. For some its harder than others. I pray for people like that. 1 Thessalonians 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith? We as a church have to pray these spirits away from the church. Satan is having a field day watching the church fall to such abominations. Here we go again, sin is sin but everyone who is wrong needs to be sat down. Pastors who are led by GOD know how to handle their flock. If someone has a spirit of lying, fornication, stealing, envy, etc. they need to be silenced. Now come on now, let's use common sense. If someone tells a lie should he/she sit down? Not necessarily, they may need to council with the pastor and get some help on this issue. But they don't want that lie to birth into a lying spirit. This case then they do need to sit down also. Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. We have to pursue this thing (salvation) saints of GOD. Even if you do all of your dirt undercover, you may fool the church...but you can't fool GOD. He knows all, sees all. 1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? You mean to tell me that GOD is not true to his word. Everyone should be scared for their own souls. Do you really believe that all this mess is acceptable in the sight of the all mighty GOD. GOD is able saints. We don't have to fall. Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. People shouldn't say people are judging them when they are trying minister their souls. Doesn't the bible speak about how can we hear without a preacher? How can we hear except he is sent (Romans 10:14). I am paraphrasing here but here's where it's found. But we have to realize that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is coming back for a church (people) without spot nor wrinkle. Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ironically this scripture is referring to how husbands should treat their wives and so forth.  Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God...etc. Saints read 2 Tim. 3:17, 2 Corin. 7:1, 13:11 for other references on perfection. Let's get ready saints for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. We only get one chance to make it right!

Offline Lady E

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2006, 04:04:43 PM »
Praise the Lord,
This is a very interesting topic. It's very sad to see where the church stands on a lot of issues. Homosexuality should be held on the same standard as fornication, lying, stealing, etc. It's all sin and if the pastor knows issues like these are running rampant in their churches then they need to handle the situation point blank. People keep repeating the same scriptures about how "we all fall short", "saved by grace", "let him without sin cast the first stone", etc.Yes those are all true but don't get on here and quote scriptures and not truly understand the distinct meaning behind them. We're not judging by rebuking sin here. If pastors were truly under the annointing of GOD and were living right they would not knowingly allow this stuff to happen. We fail to talk about what really matters here. Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. It's not easy by no means. For some its harder than others. I pray for people like that. 1 Thessalonians 3:10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith? We as a church have to pray these spirits away from the church. Satan is having a field day watching the church fall to such abominations. Here we go again, sin is sin but everyone who is wrong needs to be sat down. Pastors who are led by GOD know how to handle their flock. If someone has a spirit of lying, fornication, stealing, envy, etc. they need to be silenced. Now come on now, let's use common sense. If someone tells a lie should he/she sit down? Not necessarily, they may need to council with the pastor and get some help on this issue. But they don't want that lie to birth into a lying spirit. This case then they do need to sit down also. Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. We have to pursue this thing (salvation) saints of GOD. Even if you do all of your dirt undercover, you may fool the church...but you can't fool GOD. He knows all, sees all. 1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? You mean to tell me that GOD is not true to his word. Everyone should be scared for their own souls. Do you really believe that all this mess is acceptable in the sight of the all mighty GOD. GOD is able saints. We don't have to fall. Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. People shouldn't say people are judging them when they are trying minister their souls. Doesn't the bible speak about how can we hear without a preacher? How can we hear except he is sent (Romans 10:14). I am paraphrasing here but here's where it's found. But we have to realize that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is coming back for a church (people) without spot nor wrinkle. Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. Ironically this scripture is referring to how husbands should treat their wives and so forth.  Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God...etc. Saints read 2 Tim. 3:17, 2 Corin. 7:1, 13:11 for other references on perfection. Let's get ready saints for the coming of the Lord is at hand. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. We only get one chance to make it right!

Amen djmiller

Offline vtguy84

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2006, 09:04:31 PM »
Welcome to LGM, djmiller
www.GetCovered4Life.com (Mortgage Protection, Final Expense, Tax Free Retirement)

Offline peachlyn68

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2006, 02:53:28 PM »
I believe that if you are doing a ministry w/in the church and your lifestyle is a sin, rather it be homosexual, a drug addict, etc, then you should not be allowed to be in that ministy, the reason is because, as being in a ministry or leadership, then it will send the wrong message to people who are new to Christ...

I agree 100%, anyone WILLFULLY living in ANY TYPE of sin or PRACTICING, should not be allowed to operate in ministry (period) until they're no longer willfully sinning.  Other than homosexuality, but includes LYING,  holding on to grudges (Jesus even spoke against partaking of communion while holding a grudge against someone), adultery, fornication, cigarette/drug smoking, alcoholism, indulging in witchcraft, persons with horrible attitude issues, gossipers, husbands of more than one wife and vice versa, gambling/betting, swearing, this list could go on and on etc.  (Just thought I'd mention a few things that people don't seem to consider to be sinful, yet is more prevalent amongst church folks, than homosexuality).  We can't read a person's heart, only God has that capability.  A person could've lived a homosexual lifestyle at once, and we may still see the evidence on that person, but the person may not be currently practicing that lifestyle or living in sin.  Just so happens that some sexual sins are noticed outwardly so we can see it and act on it.  Other sins are not so readily noticeable, so we tend to act as if it's not there.  God spoke agains ALL sins, so maybe a lot of folks might need to take a seat.
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B_XALTED

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2006, 03:10:15 PM »
I think that it is a bit EXTREME to say that if you are a SINNER (which is what we all are by nature) then you CANNOT be a part of the ministry.

Homosexuality is one of those sins that is broadcast all over right in your face. No one wears a Tshirt that says LIAR, or a hat that says DRUNKKARD. But it just so happens that gay people often have a lable on their lifestyle whereas you almost see that TSHIRT that says GAY! In ohther words, a lot of the are blatantly showing us that this is their lifestyle.

The same with the woman or man who is practicing fornication. If they are actively sleeping with woman after woman, and man after man. They too should be sat down.

I think that a lot of it lies in the heart of the sinner. This is not to say that they are not saved, they just need to repent that lifestyle, and be sat down until a change takes place. If this person has the attitude that says they ARE NOT willing to change their lifestyle, then they need to be sat down.... If their heart is leaning towards repentance, then shey would willingly be sat down, be counselled and then prayerfully be returned to their position in the church.

But one way that a lot of this can be changed is that if the church stops looking at homosexuality as the Christian mans kryptonite. We are to help them and love them the same way we would the drunk, the wife beater and the liar. Their sin is no larger than the man who killed three people last year or the man that raped the woman. If we as the church look to help and stand on Gods word and not our own understading, we will be strong in breaking barriers, and strongholds that this illness has on our people.

There is a very thin, but well defined line about this matter. But it too is also an issue that faces us all.

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #72 on: September 28, 2006, 12:23:19 PM »
The bible declares its position on all sins so that isn't negotiable no matter what the sin is. The rich young ruler went away sadly because he was very rich in this life but poor spiritually. He said he kept all of the commandments from his birth(religion). How much more are we not like this man in the gospels?. The term perfection in the bible means maturity. God expects for us to mature from certain sins and setbacks that were/are stumbling blocks to us arriving to the maturity that he is calling for us. Sexual sin is such an abomination because it literally makes God sick. That is the definition of the word. When jesus told the crowd to throw the stones if they were without sin was to challenge their worthiness to judge and also to highlight that they went about confronting the issue the wrong way. Notice they said they caught the woman in the very act. The crowd had no right to be in a position to catch her in the act in the first place. Jesus gave the woman forgiveness after he asked where her accussers scattered to. Jesus forgave sin but with a caution of not to do it again. So he didn't condone the sin but he allowed her another opportunity to get it right. We are never in position to judge but only say what God says.

The scripture  tells us not to judge unless we be judged. A judge in the court of law can hear the verdict of guilt and assign punishment. That's  the power of a judge which showsthat someone who is being critical should acknowledge the authority that they speak from.  Jesus said to fear the one that can put the soul in hell not the one who can attack or kill the body! If we are in sexual sin or any sin for that matter then can we say that we have Godly fear? We have allowed people to incorrectly define judgement as speaking against sin. This has become the standard in Mainstream media's push for the latest sexual perversion (homosexuality) to be accepted. We have already accepted the perversion on the heterosexual side starting in the 1960's. The bible is very clear about us having chances to repent. The parable of the foolish virgins, the parables about the servants and their lords coming to inspect their work. That's why God gives us grace not so that we can repeat the sins over and over. Sexual spirits left uncorrected can be transferred via music and direct contact with someone that you aren't in covenant with(marriage). What makes the sin of homosexuality so sickening to God is that the act doesn't bear any fruit(children) God expects results when he calls us. So that's why individuals who aren't were they should be spiritually must be sat down.

That's why most fellowships are bewitched. The bible never really intended for one person to preach the word to a fellowship of believers. We have the five fold giftings all try to operate as pastors when all 5 gifts should be in one fellowship!!! That's another discussion. These sexual demons must be cast out. I'm reminded of when the disciples couldn't cast out some demons and the people brought the person to jesus saying that your disciples can't cast out these devils. Wonder if that's the problem in our churches. Is it that we so focus on building on own empires that the power to cast out devils and expose the enemies devices have left because our own agenda as entered. I digress.
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rjthakid

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #73 on: September 28, 2006, 12:38:37 PM »
.....That's why most fellowships are bewitched. The bible never really intended for one person to preach the word to a fellowship of believers. We have the five fold giftings all try to operate as pastors when all 5 gifts should be in one fellowship!!! .......

Elaborate.

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #74 on: September 28, 2006, 01:17:25 PM »
I believe that if all five fold ministries are in operation in one fellowship then you have the teacher who instructs new converts as well as have an opportunty to use his teaching gift to edify that fellowship in their walk with God. I believe that an effective evangelistic team should be in operation under the direction of someone who has a heart and deep gifting of compelling the lost outside of the fellowship. I believe that an apostle is someone who is under special assignment to establish order in the fellowship by way of constantly admonishing the fellowship on the different tatics the enemy has to destroy that body of belivers.The prophet is there to hear from God about specifics on the spiritual and earthly direction of the church. Then that person should be able to communicate what God showed them and their prophecies should have a manifestion according to the obedience of the people. The pastor job is to see after the care of the people both in his sermons and with the counsel of the people. Keep in mind all of these people are gifted to preach!! All of this should exist in one house but it doesn't because of egos and a zeal to preach. Then enters in who is going to get the most financially, how does the people respond to this person i.e. Saul killed his thousands but David killed his tens of thousands.

That's why it is important to have those offices operate in one house. No one person should be exclusive to just do all the preaching every Sunday!! It creates a atomosphere of that one person becoming a diety. Most fellowships fall into this horrible trap.It has been something the body of Christ have struggled with even before this generation. In my sincerest belief and study I really believe that what all of those gifts are for. Not so one person should collect a fat check and teach that the anointing flows from God to him then to the body!!! That is the doctrine of men!!! We don't need the annointing just to flow from on person. The holy spirit is able to fall on anyone who is willing to recieve him. The prophet Joel and the book of Acts refutes this doctrine. The holy spirit fell on all the 120 in the upper room not just Peter.. This is one of many examples that I have discovered in this modern mega church era that has swept our nation leaving behind Leaders and parishoners who are full of dead man's bones.
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Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2006, 03:03:37 PM »
The solution for this is the fact that not all sin is an abomination. Homosexuality is one of those abominations, which makes it worse.

We should always feel inadequate to stand before God. To me if I don't see that, then that person is dangerous. Whether you be a homosexual or not, the church may seem like a hang-out sometimes, but if the Word is being preached correctly then it's not. Even if the person's motives for coming is faulty. The Word will convict them sooner or later, whether it be now or on the Day of Judgement. In a perfect world, we would all strive for perfection daily, but the world isn't perfect, and we all have things that we haven't died to yet.

rjthakid

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2006, 03:48:24 PM »
I believe that if all five fold ministries are in operation in one fellowship then you have the teacher who instructs new converts as well as have an opportunty to use his teaching gift to edify that fellowship in their walk with God. I believe that an effective evangelistic team should be in operation under the direction of someone who has a heart and deep gifting of compelling the lost outside of the fellowship. I believe that an apostle is someone who is under special assignment to establish order in the fellowship by way of constantly admonishing the fellowship on the different tatics the enemy has to destroy that body of belivers.The prophet is there to hear from God about specifics on the spiritual and earthly direction of the church. Then that person should be able to communicate what God showed them and their prophecies should have a manifestion according to the obedience of the people. The pastor job is to see after the care of the people both in his sermons and with the counsel of the people. Keep in mind all of these people are gifted to preach!! All of this should exist in one house but it doesn't because of egos and a zeal to preach. Then enters in who is going to get the most financially, how does the people respond to this person i.e. Saul killed his thousands but David killed his tens of thousands.

That's why it is important to have those offices operate in one house. No one person should be exclusive to just do all the preaching every Sunday!! It creates a atomosphere of that one person becoming a diety. Most fellowships fall into this horrible trap.It has been something the body of Christ have struggled with even before this generation. In my sincerest belief and study I really believe that what all of those gifts are for. Not so one person should collect a fat check and teach that the anointing flows from God to him then to the body!!! That is the doctrine of men!!! We don't need the annointing just to flow from on person. The holy spirit is able to fall on anyone who is willing to recieve him. The prophet Joel and the book of Acts refutes this doctrine. The holy spirit fell on all the 120 in the upper room not just Peter.. This is one of many examples that I have discovered in this modern mega church era that has swept our nation leaving behind Leaders and parishoners who are full of dead man's bones.

No, not necessarily. 
Being an evangelist does not NECESSARILY mean you're gifted to preach.
Being a prophet does not NECESSARILY mean you're gifted to preach.

I do however believe that some Pastors are quick to seek outside preachers, as opposed to nurturing and grooming the gifts of their flock.

I agree that it's important to have the five-fold ministries in operation.

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2006, 10:31:32 AM »
I don't want to come across as a know it all and please forgive me if I do. John the Baptist was an Evanglelist and his message was REPENT. We have to shed the old paradigm of God moving through one person. Jesus sent the 70 out to evanglelize and please believe there was some preaching going on. Jonah was an Evangelist. My train of thought comes from more than one person being the primary speaker in fellowships. Every gift in the 5 fold can preach. Steven was a decon was stoned for doing what... preaching. All preaching is public speaking.A person that does a presentation at their company is doing the same thing. We see preaching most times in church as the person that can hoop and change chords with the organist. We have people that love the personality more than they love the word.

The bible says faith comes by hearing. Notice it didn't say faith comes by listening. Hearing in biblical terms are people who listened and then implemented what listened to which equals to hearing. The word adhere means to do instructions given. I don't expect things to conform to radical ideas however I do know that bibically a lot of my ideas are in line with scripture. I do appreciate the fact that most people believe the way things are now line up too but look at the mass result.
Ignorance is Bliss

rjthakid

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2006, 01:48:08 PM »
I don't want to come across as a know it all and please forgive me if I do. John the Baptist was an Evanglelist and his message was REPENT. We have to shed the old paradigm of God moving through one person. Jesus sent the 70 out to evanglelize and please believe there was some preaching going on. Jonah was an Evangelist. My train of thought comes from more than one person being the primary speaker in fellowships. Every gift in the 5 fold can preach. Steven was a decon was stoned for doing what... preaching. All preaching is public speaking.A person that does a presentation at their company is doing the same thing. We see preaching most times in church as the person that can hoop and change chords with the organist. We have people that love the personality more than they love the word.

The bible says faith comes by hearing. Notice it didn't say faith comes by listening. Hearing in biblical terms are people who listened and then implemented what listened to which equals to hearing. The word adhere means to do instructions given. I don't expect things to conform to radical ideas however I do know that bibically a lot of my ideas are in line with scripture. I do appreciate the fact that most people believe the way things are now line up too but look at the mass result.

The Pastor is the PRIMARY speaker.  Always. 

Preaching is NOT simply public speaking.  And someone doing a presentation at a company is NOT the same as preaching.  I know as I've done both.  lol.

It seems you're merging Evangelism with Preaching, which is simply not accurate.  We are ALL supposed to tell others about Christ.  We are not all called to preach.  That's simply not true. 

Nowadays there are alot of folk who have an itch to preach, and they don't know how dangerous it is.  When you preach, the devil comes after you harder than ever before.

I understand and agree with some of the things you're saying.  I agree, that when you DO have someone who is called to preach, that gift should be developed and not crushed or smothered.  I agree that when you find a

Faithful
Available, and
Teachable

individual, that person should be used in ministry, as long as their life is suitable for service.

But every Deacon, Minister, and Evangelist in the church doesn't get an opportunity to preach because they're there.

Preaching is more than public speaking.  It's a calling.

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Active Homosexuality Within the Church
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2006, 03:52:41 PM »
Look up the word calling and you will find it means interest or the word passion. Preaching is only warning people or instructing people. The term practice what you preach isn't a general term for nothing. Most people are still stuck in what people have defined preaching as what we've seen in church all our lives. The bible says how can they here without a preacher and how can he preach unless he be sent... Everyone that is converted to God is sent to preach because Jesus said that after you have recieved power from on high then you will be witnesses of me. That is verbally sharing your faith to people who are lost. Haven't you ever found yourself in a position to witness to people after a impromptu discussion about God popped up. If that witness was strong enough GOD lead you in what to say because the discussion turns to a every listening to you because they find the wisdom and knowledge that flows through you as strange? That's called preaching my friend. Whatever spiritual gift any believer has he is obligated to be prepared to witness for God. To answer my on question it has happened to me several times in my life. These times occurred most before I acknowledged the call on my life. A call on ones life is only an assigment from God. God is smart enough to book in advance because everyone doesn't choose him. That's what that scripture really means about many being called but few are chosen. It really means few really choose to carry out the assignment or get sidetracked. See the parable of the sower for details.

The mega church mentality along with unbiblical doctrines about how to get involved in the preaching ministry has warped the church into thinking that the man or woman of God is a Diety which is witchcraft. Some churches don't want you to walk in the pulpit or move the rostrum for weddings and all kind of spooky religious stuff that absolutely has nothing to do with God. I respect your views however my views are radical by nature and it is part of my calling and who I am. I will never disregard healthy discussion of the bible however I have discovered that a true walk with God is hearing his voice and learning to be sensitive to his voice. Notice he said my sheep know my voice and not my word. He also instructed us on how to allow the word of God to Abide in us. So it is a happy medium between the 2.
Ignorance is Bliss
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