Professional Transposers.....

[RMS2003]

I have another thought to share. Ask yourself this question, would God send me to Hell because I called someone a loser and told them they are not a reali musician or would it be the man/woman who transposed? The Bible said to love your neighbor. I don't think calling someone a loser is loving your neigbor. Also consider that telling a newbie that he/she is a loser and not a real musician because they tranpose might discourage them from even playing ever again. Like someone said earlier, that's not constructive criticism, that's pretty much butchering them. It might work in the world but this is church. Church is assembling together to worship God in song and in the Word, not about performance and formalities. I'll repeat what someone said once..."a 3 inch tongue can destroy a 6 foot man".

[Runs_N_12_Keys]

Yo what's up to all my Fellow Minstrel's


This is my 1st post   and what a way to start off   I've read every comment and  I agree with most of yall   When I started playing keys there was no transpose button (are you that old? LOL)  No ... there was only a Organ at my Church so I had to learn every key I was most comfortable in C# at the time but they never  EVVVVVVVVVVVER  sung in that Key  so I had to learn every Key and I wanted to learn every key so bad  When I did get my First keyboard I would never bring it to church because I would've been tempted to use that Transpose Button..   I also believe it's about how bad you want it  Some Cats just play just to play I believe every musician comes to that point in there life where they just want more So one day I locked my self in the basement pulled out some old James Hall and went to work it took me bout a year to learn all my keys but now that I know them my whole thought process done changed I hear songs on the radio and know exactly what key and what progression they are doing  most musicians that really love what they do would not cripple them selves like that

I don't knock cats that transpose ...My best Friend is a Transposer  (LLOOOLL) 





Scales




It's the ROC

[rjthakid]

Well I didn't call anyone a loser, so that doesn't apply to me.  I made the original post.

[elio]

The only acceptable time to use transpose is if it is up or down an octave.  Sometimes you have to transpose a keyboard up an octave to get the very high sounds, and sometimes you need to transpose an octave lower to get those deep bass sounds.  Other than that, don't ever, ever, ever use it.

There's also another use for it: if you are learning a song off a CD and you know you'll be playing it in another key. For instance, last week I was practicing "Nothing Else Matters" (in C on the CD), but I knew that the singer would sing it in Eb. So I transposed 3 semitones away (ie down) and played in Eb together with the CD in C. I consider that acceptable too .

Here's another reason why you should not transpose: take a song like Hosanna by KF: it starts in C, goes to Db, then to D and then chromatically all the way up to G. It would be really hard to transpose and make all those changes sound fluid.

[elio]

At my church, quite often the P&W team raises songs and choruses, and then the band joins in (or it might be that old mother in the pews  ), but the band never forces a key, it's always the singers to decide which key they want to sing in. That means we have to be ready to play in any key.
However, reading some of the posts, I seem to understand that not all churches/P&W teams work this way - what's it like at your church?

[ministert]

I have another thought to share. Ask yourself this question, would God send me to Hell because I called someone a loser and told them they are not a reali musician or would it be the man/woman who transposed? The Bible said to love your neighbor. I don't think calling someone a loser is loving your neigbor. Also consider that telling a newbie that he/she is a loser and not a real musician because they tranpose might discourage them from even playing ever again. Like someone said earlier, that's not constructive criticism, that's pretty much butchering them. It might work in the world but this is church. Church is assembling together to worship God in song and in the Word, not about performance and formalities. I'll repeat what someone said once..."a 3 inch tongue can destroy a 6 foot man".

Amen Brother Spoken like a Minister of Music.

[docjohn]

sounds like this other brother was a little touchy,hasty,etc.Word says be slow to what?anger!be slow to ?speak!be slow to?judge be slow to?complain,murmer etc.maybe you could pass this on to him perhaps he needs to see your'e only playing.ask forgiveness,pray together.WORD says it PLEASES LORD to see brothers in unity!bless each other,edify,pray without ceasing.see  1 JOHN 5:7 about power of agreeemeeent  be blessed

[louieII]

in defense of those that do transpose ,  They might be like me and not have the time to actually sit down and perfect their craft( I put my time in and praticed in all the keys when I didn't have babies and a wife).   I joke all the time with people I know that transpose but in Love I also show them little tidbits they can pratice so they don't have to use that button. How old was this guy that got a little upset at you? personally I would use what you said as a Movation to get betta but some people don't think like me.

[rjthakid]

in defense of those that do transpose ,  They might be like me and not have the time to actually sit down and perfect their craft( I put my time in and praticed in all the keys when I didn't have babies and a wife).   I joke all the time with people I know that transpose but in Love I also show them little tidbits they can pratice so they don't have to use that button. How old was this guy that got a little upset at you? personally I would use what you said as a Movation to get betta but some people don't think like me.

He's in his Mid 30's.  But I know the basics of EVERY key (I can easily do a 7-3-6-2-5-1-4 in every key...trying to expand on that), and I've only been playing for 5 months.....and I have a wife and 3yr old daughter.

You said you would use it as motivation, and that's how EVERYONE should be!!!

I thought he'd take my joke and use it positively in that way. 

Man was I off.  lol

I've used the transpose.  I know Total Praise in Db (which I believe is the original key).  Our choir was going to another church to sing it, and the keyboard player for our church couldn't come, so I went.  They sang it in Bb and I Transposed.  But again, I've been playing for 5 months, and I know it in Db.  I could play it in Bb, but it would sound very plain, because I'd only be playing the outline of the song.  In Db I know all the little riffs so it sounds MUCH better.

So there is use for it.  But I felt guilty after I used it.  I now plan on taking every song I play through the circle of fifths and learning it in every key, seeing as I'm trying to be an Organ player (no transpose).

So it depends on WHY you use the transpose.  Emergency or Laziness?

[Metronome]

This is a funny issue.  I started playin in January 05.  I wanted to play the keyboard/piano so that I could transpose.  I was just learning and I came from the drums.  Others had did it and I wanted to.  But an older musician caught wind of this trend and informed my uncle/pastor not to buy a board until I learn every key. So i just woul practice the keys i had to on the organ. As our church began to sing in different keys I'd go home in learn them.  So, a year and a half later, we JUST got a Triton.  But it seems like that guy is just a little sensitive if he's beefin over you sayin that. My boy transposes and i get at him all the time and he jut laughs it off

[louieII]

This is a funny issue.  I started playin in January 05.  I wanted to play the keyboard/piano so that I could transpose.  I was just learning and I came from the drums.  Others had did it and I wanted to.  But an older musician caught wind of this trend and informed my uncle/pastor not to buy a board until I learn every key. So i just woul practice the keys i had to on the organ. As our church began to sing in different keys I'd go home in learn them.  So, a year and a half later, we JUST got a Triton.  But it seems like that guy is just a little sensitive if he's beefin over you sayin that. My boy transposes and i get at him all the time and he jut laughs it off

LOL that is nuts Fam.

[mt_spiffy]

First of all, this is the organ room.  99% of organs do not have transpose buttons.  Question answered.

One of the first things someone will ask you, if you want to play professionally: "Can you play in all your keys?"  It is a must.  It's also an indicator of where your musicianship level is at.

Real industry cats . . . I'm not going to say they never transpose, but I will say this:  they dont have to.  You will never find someone transposing because they cant play in X key.  They would get fired!

All that having been said . . . I dont consider myself a professional on keys, at least not on an industry level.  If I'm playing somewhere and it's important that I appear to the very best of my ability, I'm not going to stumble playing something unfamiliar in a key I'm less than comfortable with.  I will transpose.  But most of the time I challenge myself and leave that button alone!

[musiqisme26]

someone said butch woodie transposes


jomo and catron just joking

[Runs_N_12_Keys]

There is actually a way you can transpose on  the Organ  I THINK it's like the 3rd  and 5th  drawbar or something like that  ...

I wouldn't recommend tho  because those bass pedals aren't changing





Scales




It's the ROC

[ES7Mike]

I can remember back to when I first started playing. my mentor would always tell me, "never use transpose" and to this day I have never used because I can play in every key plus, I am an organist at heart and there is no need to transpose when you play the organ.

[BimmerFan99]

I've started playing the organ at the church I play at on Sunday.  Just this past Sunday, the guest preacher said she was going to sing a praise song before her sermon and she needed me to follow her.  The choir had just finished singing in F, I think, and then she gets up and sings in A.  I can count the number of times I've played in A in the last 10 years with my fingers, but this time I was able to pick it up and play comfortably behind her after the first or second time around.

I like playing in flats, so Ab was quite familiar to me.  Everything else was just relaxing and moving the chords I knew from Ab a half step up to A.  It didn't take as long as I thought and now I can say I can play in A.

My point is that a lot of musicians are more comfortable playing in flats than sharps.  So, if you know keys like Db, Eb, Ab and Bb, then you can easily learn D, E, A and B.  And, if you know G, you can easily learn Gb.  Take the time to program your fingers to a new key.  It's worth it!

[Tejuan]

Naturals....(Not trying to be a "know it all", but Flats and Sharps a theoretically the same)...God Bless!

[diverse379]

Wow where was I when this jumped off

well yall know i got a comment first to your Rhitaki you pused some buttons that day brother was already self conscious a lot of musicians have serious insecurities not your fault you didnt mean to offend him but lesson learned

when you play with someone let the first thing be some type of compliment i enjoyed playing with

if you didnt say just intoduce yourself

that way you avoid the high strung weirdness you experienced

any way

to the question

transposing does hurt you in the long run

in emergencies i have used the transpose button I played a new B3 for two years and i may have used the transpose button twice

but at my new church I have already used it twice in two weeks last week expecially

why?
well because i did not want to be a distraction to the service while I backed the Bishop up in the key of F#

Real musicians do play in every key and transposing does cripple you if you use it as a crutch but i have used it in emergencies as I get myself together in all keys

sometimes the ministry and your survival depend on you doing what has to be done
but rest assured next sunday i will be knowing how to play preacher chords in F#

Your practice should include some sort of key regimin drill to aquaint you with all the keys
i learn to play songs in various keys so I have some exposure to them all

therre are still some keys I am stronger in then others and if push came to shove and the my butt was riding on what I played next and someone wanted to do some crazy hard song that i knew well in Db but couldnt play in A and shirley ceasar got up and started singing in A I might just go to that transpose button

I aint gonna die because i cheated once I dont make a habit of it and I work everyday to better my musician ship including playing in all twelve keys but sometimes a minister of music has to ensure that the music is as good as it can be and if that means hitting a button to make sure the best performance is heard then so be it

i make no apologies for my remarks and I in no way feel ashamed
And I do not intend to make the button my friend but it is a life saver at times

[rjthakid]

Wow where was I when this jumped off

well yall know i got a comment first to your Rhitaki you pused some buttons that day brother was already self conscious a lot of musicians have serious insecurities not your fault you didnt mean to offend him but lesson learned

when you play with someone let the first thing be some type of compliment i enjoyed playing with

if you didnt say just intoduce yourself

that way you avoid the high strung weirdness you experienced

any way

to the question

transposing does hurt you in the long run

in emergencies i have used the transpose button I played a new B3 for two years and i may have used the transpose button twice

but at my new church I have already used it twice in two weeks last week expecially

why?
well because i did not want to be a distraction to the service while I backed the Bishop up in the key of F#

Real musicians do play in every key and transposing does cripple you if you use it as a crutch but i have used it in emergencies as I get myself together in all keys

sometimes the ministry and your survival depend on you doing what has to be done
but rest assured next sunday i will be knowing how to play preacher chords in F#

Your practice should include some sort of key regimin drill to aquaint you with all the keys
i learn to play songs in various keys so I have some exposure to them all

therre are still some keys I am stronger in then others and if push came to shove and the my butt was riding on what I played next and someone wanted to do some crazy hard song that i knew well in Db but couldnt play in A and shirley ceasar got up and started singing in A I might just go to that transpose button

I aint gonna die because i cheated once I dont make a habit of it and I work everyday to better my musician ship including playing in all twelve keys but sometimes a minister of music has to ensure that the music is as good as it can be and if that means hitting a button to make sure the best performance is heard then so be it

i make no apologies for my remarks and I in no way feel ashamed
And I do not intend to make the button my friend but it is a life saver at times

I made another post in this thread where I stated that I've known him for years, and we've played together several times before.  Well, I definitely agree with using the Transpose in an emergency (which I also stated I've done in an emergency) but the key thing you said:

"rest assured next sunday i will be knowing how to play preacher chords in F#"

That's where it's at.  Growth.  Evolution.  Progression.  Progress.

But this guy ONLY plays in C.  I mean ONLY.  I asked him to play in any other key and he couldn't.  And he says he's been playing for years.

That's just sad.

[Min_Lewis]

Im a brand new muscian but transposing is cheating yourself.  It should be used for times of need not out of pure laziness