where are the seventh-day adventist musicians at?

[uprising_bassist7]

waddup man ?

[DRBMN222]

i like this i like this sda folk just bonding lol God bless yall

[uprising_bassist7]

yeah man bonding is good

[fretai03]

Whats good people. SDA is international up in here... That's right.
SDA from Auckland, New Zealand! Thats whasup!
Good to see the SDA fam in here congregate.

As to the question at hand...

Quick history: Last year I left my home church to find a church that would allow me to play drums. Folk out my way are straight Ellen G White conservative so, there ain't much room for discussion. We have breakaway churches that have gone contemporary but they already have their musicians set.

I currently play drums for 3 different SDA churches in my area: 2 conservatives & 1 contemporary. The ONLY way I am able to drum for the conservative churches is because we've setup band(s) at both that play for "special" occasions or youth programs during the week. We still do not have drums for services.

The quick history above gives a fair idea of the SDA scene here & how hard it is to be able to play liberally in church. There is no encouraging environment to allow musicians to give God their best, comments like "Your bass is too loud", "Get that drum kit off the stage, put it behind the piano", "Don't play like that, a pianist should lead the congregation... Stop showing off.." are pretty common here.

What do we out here? We go to other SDA or sunday churches instead & if we don't go out to other churches we take it to the basement. Basically at home jamming & chilling out with other musicians at home. The sad thing is when these great musicians are asked to play back at their home church guess what 90% of them say.............. No.  They have all experienced these same things I'm talking about. The feeling that the church doesn't accept them or encourage/support their talents.

Playing liberally is something that we aim to do in our churches especially in service, there is just no environment provided at church for it. But it doesn't stop those of us committed to sharing God through our talents.

[BimmerFan99]

I can really identify with you on that!  The church where I grew up in Los Angeles was (and still is) conservative, especially with the music.  Ironically, it's where I was given the first opportunity to play in church.  I started playing there when I was around 13 or 14 and continued on until I was about 18.  I learned a lot, but I hit the peak of what I could learn and do in church after about 2 years or so. 

It became increasingly frustrating attempting to compete with the pipe organist, and having drums in the church was completely taboo.  They once spent almost an entire board meeting arguing whether or not I could bring a drummer in for a guest choir!!!!  They have a Hammond that just collects dust, and they once did "Total Praise" to the accompaniament of the pipe organ while that perfectly good Hammond/Leslie setup was just a few steps away!!!!  It was horror to my ears!!!

The current pastor (who was pastor when I left) came in with an extreme right arm, and he and I definitely didn't get along.  It was a good thing I left when I did.  It's sad because the youth population was slim when I left 3 years ago, and has just become slimmer.  I visited once last December and couldn't even bring myself to sit through the entire service.

It wasn't until I moved to Florida when I finally got the chance to expand my skills and play more freely. The church I'm at now is somewhere between conservative and liberal since we're a collegiate church.

If I were to move back to LA (or visit there for any extended period of time), I would not play for that church, just like you say, because it's too conservative and I'd stomp on more than a few toes.  I feel your pain, but I can't offer any advice on what to do.  I'm a stubborn person, so I would push the envelope anyhow, but you have to be sure you have political support (yes, I said political) where it counts or you'll be crushed instantaneously.  First and foremost, you have to be led by the Holy Spirit and not your own interests.  Politically, you need to have the pastor (if he has enough political clout) and some other key individuals like the minister of music on your side.  Talk to members to see what they want and ease new things in step by step.

[uprising_bassist7]

yo i feel y'all for real the last pastor we had was as conservative as the pope and bitby bit surely did we get to play the kind of music that would make a service live .... but that was only when he was away but now our new pastor (who is my cousin ) is a roots man he loves music and allows to us play our music but nothing too out of proportion

[Jenkx]

It's good to see SDA musicians talking about some of the issues.  I'm an SDA pastor at the Bethel Church in Pomona, California.  (If you're ever in the L.A. area stop by and pay a visit)  I've done the whole Oakwood and Andrews thing and I've been in fulltime ministry about 6 years.  I started on the Bass last year and I play for my churches praise team.  I tinker on the keyboard and drums.  I was in Tuscan, AZ this past Sabbath doing a youth week of prayer and when the drummer went to the bathroom during service I got up out of the pastors chair and played the drums live for the first time.  Everyone was amazed that a pastor actually played drums.  I'm an Adventist through and through and I believe in the endtime message but I also believe that church ought to be lively and fun. 

As a pastor I hear all the complaints about the music.  I did a serious study on music in the Bible and EGW and came to the conclusion that the biggest adjustment we need with our music is for musicians to be converted and consecrated to God.  When that takes place the music will be "right."  One complaint I kept getting was that the non-SDA musicians did not respect our service buy the way they dressed and many did not know the songs we commonly sing and had to wait for the congregation to start singing before they were able to play so therefore they never played an introit to a song.  So I took an Idea to the board that we pay to have our own youth and young adults take lessons.  So the board decided to sponsor 6 individuals a year for lessons so that we could grow our own musicians. 

It's not a new idea for I'm sure that other churches have done it or are doing it.  I got the idea from the studies on music I had done and the fact that many youth grow up in our churches without ever thinking about playing an instrument because many of our churches are so strict and conservative when it comes to music that the environment is just not conducive to fostering musical growth and development in our youth. 

My mother was a gifted musician.  She could play anything.  Drums, bass, piano, guitar, organ, xylophone, flute.  You name it she could play it.  She had 4 children who are all adults now.  I'm the only one who plays and I just started last year.  I think I have a little of her musical gift because it comes easy for me.  But growing up, neither my siblings nor I learned to play because the church would not allow anything other than a piano and organ.  And if you didn’t know how to play they had no patience for you to learn.  No other youth growing up with me learned to play either.  Now when I go home to visit they have a non-SDA musician because they didn’t encourage musical development amongst their own youth.  It was the same at the church I now pastor and that's why I pushed for us to sponsor our own youth to learn to play.  I'm expecting a big payoff in about a year or two.  Even if I move on to another church this is something that will benefit this church for years to come.

[uprising_bassist7]

for real one day i might stop by and jam it with you  you never know well its good that you memeber are having fun in Jesus and best of all for you there are no complaints

[Bullitt]

Hmm... That's pretty much what I'm thinkin.

I'm leading the band at Maranatha SDA in Tallahassee.  The church is a collegiate church (with FAMU, FSU and TCC being in town) and I'd say at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the church is made up of collegiates.  Two weeks of the month, either I play or the band plays, one of those weeks being when the collegiate choir sings.  The other two weeks are led by the main musicians (a husband/wife team who are baptist).  Those two weeks tend to have the old-time, southern feel of worship service.

A few weeks back we played "Faith" by Kirk Franklin during offertory (all instrumental).  The two saxes took the melody and a did a little soloing on the organ at the end (mind you I didn't really open up too much like I did in rehearsal the night before).  After it was all over, I had all the collegiates telling me it was awesome and they were blessed by the song.  On the other end of the spectrum, some felt the song was inappropriate.  One specific person told me she didn't appreciate feeling like she was in a jazz club.

Our de facto motto is: If one is blessed, then we have done our job [as a band].  What would you guys do with that situation?

I'm not SDA but wanted to comment on this.  I typically play with our youth group at church and fill in for the other bassist from time to time.  During every service we have a few minutes to "Meet & Greet" and just walk around welcoming new visitors while the band just jams.

Last time I played the paster caught the groove that we were jamming to and had us keep going for a good 10 minutes after the Meet & Greet lol.  He told the congregation that there was nothing wrong with wanting to dance to the music (it was pretty funky).  He went on to say that people dance and groove all the time in Jazz clubs, so why not use that same music/dance to praise God?

With that being said, the organ player looked over and told me to "crank it up"....man that was a fun service 


God Bless,
-J

[jeremyr]

He went on to say that people dance and groove all the time in Jazz clubs, so why not use that same music/dance to praise God?

I think that this is where we need to be careful.  Becuase there's odviously a thin line.  We don't want to get people getting their groove on like you may see in a secular club or start playing the bass line to a nelly/T.I song into the church,  but really bring the spirit of God into the place. Now i'm not saying that the progression is a problem, but how it is played.  I mean lets face it, music (western at least) all follow the same types of progressions.  Ther'es no way around it.  Just because a neo soul aritst has a certain chord progression voiceing that they use doesn't mean that we shouldn't play them because they do, but it's more HOW you play it. 

Wether we want to admit it or not the music we play refelcts our spirits and our moods.  It expresses our thoughts and our concerns.  This is why some people can make their instrument "talk".  They have learned how to put that into the music wether it be the spirit of God or wordly things.  I don't care how perfect your notes/progressions are if there's no emotion behind it then it feels empty.  If we have the spirit of God in us and we're praising him then it will sound AND feel like it.  Not only to us, but also to the congregation.  Now on the flipside  if you're thinking about dancing in a club or whatever then it'll sound and feel  like that.

I guess this is why we really need to pray before we sit down.  I never thought about it this deep until just now and I'm realizing that we can really hinder the service if we aren't right with God. 

[Bullitt]

I think that this is where we need to be careful.  Becuase there's odviously a thin line.  We don't want to get people getting their groove on like you may see in a secular club or start playing the bass line to a nelly/T.I song into the church,  but really bring the spirit of God into the place. Now i'm not saying that the progression is a problem, but how it is played.  I mean lets face it, music (western at least) all follow the same types of progressions.  Ther'es no way around it.  Just because a neo soul aritst has a certain chord progression voiceing that they use doesn't mean that we shouldn't play them because they do, but it's more HOW you play it. 

Wether we want to admit it or not the music we play refelcts our spirits and our moods.  It expresses our thoughts and our concerns.  This is why some people can make their instrument "talk".  They have learned how to put that into the music wether it be the spirit of God or wordly things.  I don't care how perfect your notes/progressions are if there's no emotion behind it then it feels empty.  If we have the spirit of God in us and we're praising him then it will sound AND feel like it.  Not only to us, but also to the congregation.  Now on the flipside  if you're thinking about dancing in a club or whatever then it'll sound and feel  like that.

I guess this is why we really need to pray before we sit down.  I never thought about it this deep until just now and I'm realizing that we can really hinder the service if we aren't right with God. 

Thanks for posting that.  I should've clarified a bit more on the subject but I'll do so now.

About a year ago, I went to the Re_Present conference in Atlanta with our church youth and Deron Cloud did a session on how people are quick to jump up and start jamming/dancing to the latest club songs but get shy when Christian/Gospel songs are played.  His message really sunk in for alot of our youth and inspired our pastor to come back and preach a similar sermon.

In the sermon he covered all the things that you said and went on to talk about how using new music isn't "bad" as long as it's Christ centered.  Throughout the sermon he would pause from time to time and had us play different songs starting with some old southern baptist "foot stompin" spirituals and then transitioned into hymnals. From there we went into a few typical Sunday morning praise & worship songs (old school) -> James Cleveland songs, "Goin Up Yonder" (represented one of the first major "changes" in the way modern gospel is played) -> We Worship You by Isreal & New Breed.

It was an absolutely AMAZING service and it helped to open alot of people eyes who had been reluctant to put any stock in the "newer" music that is on the air waves.  Just like you said, the message carried in the music and instrumentation is what makes the difference.  I've got that sermon on tape and want to listen it again now haha.


God Bless,
-J

[DaReal]

What it is family?
SDA Bass player over here in Miami, Florida playing over at the Tabernacle SDA Church on 79th and 2nd (lol)

Used to have issues with the whole music issue at my previous church. Being Haitian (Sak Passe?) the old folk, led by the former pastor, were extremely conservative and scared of voodoo so we used to butt heads on plenty of occasions involving the drums (you cant play the bass without the drums yall its murder) and styles of music. After a while, I left to come to the church i minister (cuz we just don't play...music is a ministry that invokes the presence of God) at now and to make a long story short, the church got a new, liberal pastor with a different ideology and now the church is persistantly asking for us to come back. Just to show the fickle nature of people and music.

The church i play at now though is great. we have a 15-20 minute praise and worship before the sermon and i think it really makes a difference. Of course sometimes we go overboard (like using the intro to Tye Tribbetts "Bless the Lord" to introduce "All Hail the power of Jesus name"- it was phat but not too well appreciated..lol). We do a lot of contemporary songs yet try to keep it grounded with alot of Hymns and traditional music. The Israel Haugtons and Judith McCallisters  are great but you gotta have your meat and potatoes. We have a VERY age-ranged carribean congregation with an American pastor and it is working wonderfully. I praise God for this situation.
If y'all ever in town, look ya boy up...

[uprising_bassist7]

yeah i hear you my west-indian brotha , so your church is gettin live you say? send us a mini clip of it like to be at your church

[jeremyr]

What it is family?
SDA Bass player over here in Miami, Florida playing over at the Tabernacle SDA Church on 79th and 2nd (lol)

Used to have issues with the whole music issue at my previous church. Being Haitian (Sak Passe?) the old folk, led by the former pastor, were extremely conservative and scared of voodoo so we used to butt heads on plenty of occasions involving the drums (you cant play the bass without the drums yall its murder) and styles of music. After a while, I left to come to the church i minister (cuz we just don't play...music is a ministry that invokes the presence of God) at now and to make a long story short, the church got a new, liberal pastor with a different ideology and now the church is persistantly asking for us to come back. Just to show the fickle nature of people and music.

The church i play at now though is great. we have a 15-20 minute praise and worship before the sermon and i think it really makes a difference. Of course sometimes we go overboard (like using the intro to Tye Tribbetts "Bless the Lord" to introduce "All Hail the power of Jesus name"- it was phat but not too well appreciated..lol). We do a lot of contemporary songs yet try to keep it grounded with alot of Hymns and traditional music. The Israel Haugtons and Judith McCallisters  are great but you gotta have your meat and potatoes. We have a VERY age-ranged carribean congregation with an American pastor and it is working wonderfully. I praise God for this situation.
If y'all ever in town, look ya boy up...

man, my girl's friend goes to one of those churches down there and her husband is the pastor.  They just got married creeping up on a year(i feel old now )

You know Toya and A.J?

[BIG SMOOTH]

I'm SDA. I attend church in Nashville, TN at Riverside SDA.

[jeremyr]

Welcome to LGM Big Smooch.

Are you primarily a bassist?

[floaded27]

Not an SDA but I just want to chime in as an encouragement to the musicians. Ya'll see how many of the pentecostal churches are now with music, but if you talk to some older people that been around, many years ago they had this same issue; wanted only traditional stuff, only an organist, some pastors didnt even want a drum set in their church. A lot of the musicians had to seek other venues to have somewhere to play.

A word of wisdom, be careful and stay prayed up. In an eagerness to play, temptations and issues may arise inside and outside the church, and soon in an attempt to start "keeping up with the times" some problems will find its way inside the church through the guise of music.

[rEaLiTy|cHecK]

im SDA too

[Steelpulz]

I am not SDA, but alternate between two SDA churches in Los Angeles/Inglewood. Last week there was a West Coast Gospel Music Symposium hosted by a Los Angeles SDA church for most of the symposium. They would not allow drums in the sanctuary. The pastor appeared to be a reasonable, good guy to me, but drums weren't gonna happen. We held the final concert at a beautiful COGIC church in Compton, CA, Love and Unity COGIC. Of course, drums were allowed there and the concert was wonderful. But I found it strange that the mass choir could rehearse at the SDA church with no drums, and minister in a final concert with drums. Man and his traditions are a trip. But I love em anyway.

[sixstringpoet]

i am not sda but my church organization are sabbath keepers.

Steelpulz we need to hook up bruh.