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Author Topic: Strictly Gospel??  (Read 8570 times)

Offline keynote

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Strictly Gospel??
« on: August 07, 2006, 09:25:17 PM »
I got a question for all my horn players... especially sax players b/c most of the work out there for sax players is NOT gospel...

What do y'all think about playin jazz/R&B?
Take care and be blessed!  Ps 16

Offline baldeagle

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 03:51:16 PM »
I got a question for all my horn players... especially sax players b/c most of the work out there for sax players is NOT gospel...

What do y'all think about playin jazz/R&B?

Jazz. . . maybe. Because it's a style, not a message. R&B is rhythm and BLUES. . . the blues connotes a message. Is that message increasing God's kingdom or edifying the body of Christ? Is it leading others to do something that's out of the will of God? People think this is a sticky subject, but it's only sticky if you care more about money than you do about being in God's will and trying to help others stay in His will. I can't tell you what to do, but God tells us to, "Be ye Holy, for I am Holy" (Lev.11:44). And in case we have in Church of Christ brothers and sisters, it's found again in 1 Peter 1:16.

God's Word is pretty straightforward. We're the ones who are bent. . .
It's God's way. . . or Hell to pay

Offline visionmike

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2006, 12:21:21 AM »
Jazz. . . maybe. Because it's a style, not a message. R&B is rhythm and BLUES. . . the blues connotes a message. Is that message increasing God's kingdom or edifying the body of Christ? Is it leading others to do something that's out of the will of God? People think this is a sticky subject, but it's only sticky if you care more about money than you do about being in God's will and trying to help others stay in His will. I can't tell you what to do, but God tells us to, "Be ye Holy, for I am Holy" (Lev.11:44). And in case we have in Church of Christ brothers and sisters, it's found again in 1 Peter 1:16.

God's Word is pretty straightforward. We're the ones who are bent. . .

I couldn't have said it any better, bald eagle.
In everything you do, ALWAYS put God 1st!

Offline Jbroad572

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 02:46:55 AM »
I don't play or plan to play strictly gospel. I plan to play with both saved and unsaved people, but never seperating myself from ministry. How and when God wants to work through me, be it through friendship or relationship I am open and available. I am usually that guy people are drawn to and want to talk about problems with and that is an open door. This is just me, you have to pray and know how God has called you to minister.

Offline david johnson

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 12:17:16 PM »
baldeagle:

'Jazz. . . maybe. Because it's a style, not a message. R&B is rhythm and BLUES. . . the blues connotes a message.'

well put, thank you.
btw, i'm coC.

dj

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 10:31:03 AM »
It depends on the occasion, for a wedding, yes i would play because i believe it's not sending a wrong message... Look at it this way, would you want to hear Lord Make Me Over on your honey moon???? i doubt it... there are some good R&B love songs, Like the cd that T.D. Jakes made for couples... Now would i play in a club that promotes drinking and smoking... No i would probably not because music is so important and powerful and i'm careful with the annointing.  Think of David when he play for the king, it wasn't only the music that casted out the demon out of Saul, but the author behind the music... So i wouldn't want to jeopordize it in any type of way... As far as jazz clubs for a romantic evening for couples, such as Sambuccas, yes i would definately do that.  It's professional and upscale, but again, it's somewhat on the border line, maybe we should take the step like kirk walhum and create gospel jazz bands, to perform at different ventures, i mean, they have hip hop, rock, pop, that's taking over the industry, and jazz, but what about gospel jazz?  Now that's something i would definatley love to do.

Offline vkeys314

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2006, 01:14:03 PM »
All music is the same untill you put words to it..... if the message is positive and on the right level i see nothing wrong with either one... but if the message is full of sin, hate, negativity then its not just wrong, as a minister through music its a sin.... we aren't supposed to do things that tempt our brotheren to do wrong..
music speaks to everyones soul

Offline Cherri

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2006, 11:12:14 PM »
Horns brings brightness to the music. I heard a group tonight, man the horns sparkled...
What can I $ay Juanita Bynum is my cicerone.

Offline Ladymusic88

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2006, 05:32:32 PM »
It depends on the occasion, for a wedding, yes i would play because i believe it's not sending a wrong message... Look at it this way, would you want to hear Lord Make Me Over on your honey moon???? i doubt it... there are some good R&B love songs, Like the cd that T.D. Jakes made for couples... Now would i play in a club that promotes drinking and smoking... No i would probably not because music is so important and powerful and i'm careful with the annointing.  Think of David when he play for the king, it wasn't only the music that casted out the demon out of Saul, but the author behind the music... So i wouldn't want to jeopordize it in any type of way... As far as jazz clubs for a romantic evening for couples, such as Sambuccas, yes i would definately do that.  It's professional and upscale, but again, it's somewhat on the border line, maybe we should take the step like kirk walhum and create gospel jazz bands, to perform at different ventures, i mean, they have hip hop, rock, pop, that's taking over the industry, and jazz, but what about gospel jazz?  Now that's something i would definatley love to do.

Likewise, dfwkeys!  I'd love to play with a gospel jazz group also.  I used to play alto sax in the jazz band in college before I got saved.....quite a while ago......but, it would be even better to play gospel jazz.  That way, God would be glorified through the music. 

Be Blessed!
Ladymusic88

Offline Ladymusic88

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2006, 05:34:16 PM »
All music is the same untill you put words to it..... if the message is positive and on the right level i see nothing wrong with either one... but if the message is full of sin, hate, negativity then its not just wrong, as a minister through music its a sin.... we aren't supposed to do things that tempt our brotheren to do wrong..
Ditto!

Ladymusic88

Offline THE WOLFMAN

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2006, 05:34:34 PM »
is blues a message, or a scale? or song form?

aha.......

Offline Wolfram

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 09:10:39 AM »
I am a working musician.  the Lord has not yet graced me with enough work in the gospel music venue to give up playing in R&B studio sessions or out on the road.  I take this to mean that He has a plan for me that may include ministering in the lion's den.  Just last week, a young lady came up to me to comment on how much she enjoyed how much energy I put into my performance on stage.  I told her that it is all for Jesus.  At first, I think this threw her.  We ended up talking the whole night about church.  She came out to my church on Sunday and has attended ever since. 

It is EASY to minister to the captive and willing church congregation, but it is our duty to minister to those that are on the other side.  Music is the greatest gift (next to salvation), that God could give us to help bridge the gap.

I use the opportunity He grants me to show others the Power of his Grace. 

Peace,

Wolfram

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 09:35:42 AM »
it's really all up to that individual, everyone knows what's right and wrong, what's good and bad, you're not going to lose your salvation by playing R&B songs... I, myself... i love R&B however, i learned from experience that even though our playing might not affect ourselves, we have to consider would this arouse someone else to do something un-Godly, For instance, if i play "In between the sheets" by the isley brothers, of course there is no words if you just play instrumentals but for someone who knows the words to the songs, (thoughts can start to developing their minds, etc... ) however let's flip it around, if it was a your wife or husbands honeymoon night and you play this song (instrumentals) i don't see nothing wrong... i hope this makes sense... i guess i can write this because i remember i was playing a song on keyboard, someone sd that's my jam, now i need to call my girlfriend because i'm in the mood.  I was like wow... did i do that!  :o

Offline pdpguy

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2006, 01:20:12 PM »
All music is the same untill you put words to it.....

what if I'm smoking weed or doing heroine when i write an instrumental? do you think the spirit that's attached to the song when i write it does or does not have its stamp and influence on the song?

sometimes we tend to treat the spirit realm like its as shallow as the physical. be careful with this. we can't be ignorant of the power of the spiritual realm. nor can we pretend that there is not heavy activity going on in the spirit realm with the music of the world today.

is blues a message, or a scale? or song form?

aha.......

Aha? you act like you said something witty. blues is a message. it's the message about an individual's hardships that are submitted in song form for others to hear. when was the last time you heard a blues song that mentioned how happy someone was? now in the case of R&B, the message is not about God, it does not promote God, and generally tends to steer people AWAY from God's DIRECT instructions and prohibitions. Boys to Men may not mean any harm, but do you think that everyone listening to their songs are married? so do you think the people who aren't married, who listen to their songs, stop listening to them so they won't be led into fornication? Please. . . that's why the "bastard" baby rate is up.

oh, yeah. the "blues" scale is only called such because it was widely used in blues. it was given the name because of the kind of music it was most used in initially. as for the song form, do a little research and you'll find that the blues song form is not originally called "blues" song form, but more than likely has a more technical name which was derived long before the message of the blues was put to music.

I am a working musician.  the Lord has not yet graced me with enough work in the gospel music venue to give up playing in R&B studio sessions or out on the road.  I take this to mean that He has a plan for me that may include ministering in the lion's den.  Just last week, a young lady came up to me to comment on how much she enjoyed how much energy I put into my performance on stage.  I told her that it is all for Jesus.  At first, I think this threw her.  We ended up talking the whole night about church.  She came out to my church on Sunday and has attended ever since. 

I understand. but try this. . . pray, ask God where He really wants you to be right now. if He doesn't tell you you're in the right place, would you move? sometimes we let our lack of trust in God's ability to take care of us put us in places where God never intended for us to be. if God told you that you weren't supposed to be playing music AT ALL. . . would you stop? and just think about this. . . how often do you contribute to playing a song that is leading a listener away from God's Word? do you think that if you've done this that you are not accountable for what happens? i don't know what the message of your music is, but this is just something to think about.

did you and the lady talk about CHRIST or church? also, does this woman just attend, or has she gotten saved? God called us to win souls to Christ. sometimes we go the easy way and invite people to church. it's going to be interesting (for those left behind) how many people will still be at church if the rapture comes on a Sunday morning.

It is EASY to minister to the captive and willing church congregation, but it is our duty to minister to those that are on the other side.  Music is the greatest gift (next to salvation), that God could give us to help bridge the gap.

it's funny you should say "captive and willing church congregation" because much of the congregation are still captives. it is not EASY to MINISTER to anyone. especially in the church where people refuse to believe that God still expects complete holiness in us. we don't want to hear it because that would take sacrifice and discipline. we want to do what we want to do.

music is a great gift, but it is also a huge weapon that the enemy has deceptively used to make us accepting of so much garbage that our spiritual breath stinks to God.

i'm not attacking you. it's just that "saved" people are always making excuses why we can play around with things that God has told us to stay away from. and satan is just laughing at us.

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2006, 03:04:07 PM »
i'm going to start a new style R&G - rythm and gospel... oh let me guess, there must be something wrong with that too ?/?  i believe strongly in the spiritual realm, but are we going to lose are salvation over music, i seriouly doubt it, when david committed murder he asked God to not take the holy spirit away from him, so what makes you think that we're going to lose this and that over music, since soccer (sports) came from murders who kicked around someones head as a game from fun should we stay away from that too because of the origin of it.
what if I'm smoking weed or doing heroine when i write an instrumental? do you think the spirit that's attached to the song when i write it does or does not have its stamp and influence on the song?


Rev. James Cleveland died of Aids and molested boys, so should we stop listening to his music.  I understand your intend of being super Holy and want to correct everyones point of view, but answer this.  In the old testiment when God used a donkey to warn someone not to go a certain path ( i think in the book of numbers), was there something wrong with the messager?  Or better yet, when you go check your mail, do you think of the person who is deliving the mail? Not only that, even in church, a lot of unsaved Pastors are leaving a sinful life but the message that they bring can still save souls because of that persons faith and belief in the message, is there somehting wrong with that?

I remember a movie of this pastor, that was faking in the church, he would hire people to act like they were sick and hurt and they would pretend to be healed, so he can get members in the church and get money from offering and tithes, he didn't believe in miracles, however, the people in the church were getting healed because of they're belief and faith, it had nothing to do of the person delivering the word.  Again... if we talk about spirits then we should know that the devil and God's angles only react to the words that we speak.  Now that's biblical

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2006, 08:13:04 AM »


Aha? you act like you said something witty. blues is a message. it's the message about an individual's hardships that are submitted in song form for others to hear. when was the last time you heard a blues song that mentioned how happy someone was? now in the case of R&B, the message is not about God, it does not promote God, and generally tends to steer people AWAY from God's DIRECT instructions and prohibitions. Boys to Men may not mean any harm, but do you think that everyone listening to their songs are married? so do you think the people who aren't married, who listen to their songs, stop listening to them so they won't be led into fornication? Please. . . that's why the "bastard" baby rate is up.


Ah, come on now, of course we know R&B does not promote God, that's why it's called secular music. Do you think that everyone that drives a car has a valid license or if they do, does everyone drives it legally, (meaning no running red lights etc...)  It's not the car that is wrong it's what we do with the car and the actions that follow that makes it wrong.  Same think with secular music, Most of it does not promote God, However, there is a lot of it that doesn't demote God as well.  I used the example about the car because because we can use it the right way or use it for wrong reasons... and music is the same think, if we are using it to fornicate then it's for the wrong reason...Here's an example to use it for the right way: Playing love songs (gigs) at weddings, honey moon, for your husband or wife to set the mood - now here's examples to use in the wrong way: fornicate, adultry, performing at a club that promotes drunkeness and smoking, anything lyrics that talks about going against the will of God such as killing, stilling, etc.. basically all the stuff in the 10 commandments.

Not only that but people can not only use a car or music the wrong way, but even the Bible can be used the wrong way.  Most religions formed their own belief and thelogy around the bible but the leave out the stuff they don't like and add in the things they do like and they make their own religion.

Even the book of Songs of Solomon, is basically a love story, someone can use that the wrong way and make up a sexual song or poetry out of it... Point is, it's all how we use it...   Satin was the greatest musician in heaven that can sing a 3-4 part harmony by himself... this was his greatest gift, i think knowing that this was a gift of satans, and if it were to corrupt i think there would be more talk in the bible about it, however what caused 1/3 of the angles to follow was not only the music but his words and actions to decieve.  I love jazz, i love R&B, and if a song demotes God i will not tolerate, again, it's secular music.

Offline THE WOLFMAN

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2006, 08:21:29 AM »
thats  a point.....

when a husband and wife do what husbands and wives do, I'm sure they're not going to listen to
"a mighty fortress is our God"....or "i wont complain".....

ok.. well someone might, but not me.... ::)

Offline Wolfram

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2006, 12:42:26 PM »
There are numerous things that I could say to the afore mentioned comments about God and my choice of playing music.  I have had several versions of this same diatribe presented to me over the years from different people that just did not understand the seriousness of what they asked.


The position put forward was whether I would be willing to give up playing secular music if God told me to.  I make my living playing music.  I have tried and will continue to try to put together a Gospel Jazz group that consists of dedicated musicians willing to play for the Lord.  There are a few fundamental problems to putting together a group like this.
1)   Musicianship:  You cannot just plop a group of friends together and play.  The style that I am looking for requires top-notch players that not only know how to play, but also how to listen to one another.
2)   Practicing:  This is a time constraint issue.  I have found that many of the best “church or gospel” players are stretched too thin to begin with.  Very few are willing to rehearse on a regular basis and those that do rehearse cannot prepare well because of commitments.
3)   Capitol:  Playing for Jesus on Sunday is great, but as I stated before, this is my livelihood.  Getting a group of top-notch players together would require some form of gig possibility.  In general, Churches are not known for their concerts.  Therefore, you have to travel from one end of the country to another begging for gigs.
4)   $$ upfront:  Somebody has to have the $$ to pay for the PA, the demo CD, the contracts, the promotion, all the little extras that bite you when you are not looking.

I know in my heart that Gospel Jazz is where I want to be.  I also know that I am responsible to my family for sustenance.  Other questions in the same line have been along the lines of “Why do I charge for my music?” and “Couldn’t I just get a day job?”  My answer is this:  God has given me a gift.  That gift is music.  Whether anyone likes it or not, secular music has the majority of opportunities for me to use that craft.  If someone had a knack for fixing cars, would they become a mechanic or would they become a gardener? 

If God would tell me today to stop playing secular music today, I would drop secular music in a heartbeat.  I have not been so blessed as of yet.  I use my time in the secular music scene to be a positive influence on those that play in the groups that I work with.

It was asked on what topic I talked about.  (This was referring to the conversation I had with a young lady that saw me play.)  Primarily, you do not jump out of the bushes and scare an approaching horse.  They will run away.  Secondly, the conversation started gently and then ended up with me inviting her to church.  We talked about faith.  That is my strength. 

Bring 300 sheep into a barn, shut the doors and you can blast Mozart or Michael W Smith.  Leave them in the field, and it requires you to work harder to get them to stay still long enough for you to even talk to them.

Religion is a man made product.  Faith is what God intended when He sent down His Son.  We keep mixing up the two.

When I play music, I play for God.  I do not play in rap, heavy metal, hip-hop, psychedelic, heavy-styled, sex driven, and potty-mouthed bands.  I review song lists prior to accepting gigs and will not play with groups that are drug users or alcohol abusers.

I am taking for granted that all the comments that you made were made in conversation and not condemnation, since I do not know you and likewise, you know nothing about me.  I hope I have cleared up any questions that you had.

Peace,

Wolfram


Offline pdpguy

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2006, 03:49:17 PM »
There are numerous things that I could say to the afore mentioned comments about God and my choice of playing music.  I have had several versions of this same diatribe presented to me over the years from different people that just did not understand the seriousness of what they asked.


The position put forward was whether I would be willing to give up playing secular music if God told me to.  I make my living playing music.  I have tried and will continue to try to put together a Gospel Jazz group that consists of dedicated musicians willing to play for the Lord.  There are a few fundamental problems to putting together a group like this.
1)   Musicianship:  You cannot just plop a group of friends together and play.  The style that I am looking for requires top-notch players that not only know how to play, but also how to listen to one another.
2)   Practicing:  This is a time constraint issue.  I have found that many of the best “church or gospel” players are stretched too thin to begin with.  Very few are willing to rehearse on a regular basis and those that do rehearse cannot prepare well because of commitments.
3)   Capitol:  Playing for Jesus on Sunday is great, but as I stated before, this is my livelihood.  Getting a group of top-notch players together would require some form of gig possibility.  In general, Churches are not known for their concerts.  Therefore, you have to travel from one end of the country to another begging for gigs.
4)   $$ upfront:  Somebody has to have the $$ to pay for the PA, the demo CD, the contracts, the promotion, all the little extras that bite you when you are not looking.

I know in my heart that Gospel Jazz is where I want to be.  I also know that I am responsible to my family for sustenance.  Other questions in the same line have been along the lines of “Why do I charge for my music?” and “Couldn’t I just get a day job?”  My answer is this:  God has given me a gift.  That gift is music.  Whether anyone likes it or not, secular music has the majority of opportunities for me to use that craft.  If someone had a knack for fixing cars, would they become a mechanic or would they become a gardener? 

If God would tell me today to stop playing secular music today, I would drop secular music in a heartbeat.  I have not been so blessed as of yet.  I use my time in the secular music scene to be a positive influence on those that play in the groups that I work with.

It was asked on what topic I talked about.  (This was referring to the conversation I had with a young lady that saw me play.)  Primarily, you do not jump out of the bushes and scare an approaching horse.  They will run away.  Secondly, the conversation started gently and then ended up with me inviting her to church.  We talked about faith.  That is my strength. 

Bring 300 sheep into a barn, shut the doors and you can blast Mozart or Michael W Smith.  Leave them in the field, and it requires you to work harder to get them to stay still long enough for you to even talk to them.

Religion is a man made product.  Faith is what God intended when He sent down His Son.  We keep mixing up the two.

When I play music, I play for God.  I do not play in rap, heavy metal, hip-hop, psychedelic, heavy-styled, sex driven, and potty-mouthed bands.  I review song lists prior to accepting gigs and will not play with groups that are drug users or alcohol abusers.

I am taking for granted that all the comments that you made were made in conversation and not condemnation, since I do not know you and likewise, you know nothing about me.  I hope I have cleared up any questions that you had.

Peace,

Wolfram




yes, i'm just engaging in conversation. i don't know you so i can't judge you. and it's nothing against you personally. it's just always the same song with "saved" musicians. the money is better, so that's what i need to do. that makes money the god and not God. becasue we're basing our dedcisions on what money tells us instead of what God tells us.

i actually have more respect for you than i have for many others on this site. at least you actually MENTIONED previewing the songlist and screening the people you play with. others on here just defend what they do and justify why it's okay to play whatever pays.

and, truth be told, you don't owe me an explanation (even though i'm glad you did), because God's not going to ask me what anyone else did when i get to Heaven.

i hope that God blesses you in your aspirations to play Gospel Jazz.

Offline Wolfram

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Re: Strictly Gospel??
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2006, 05:49:09 PM »
I will say this much, the moment I can get a consistent gospel jazz project off the ground...  Goodbye secular.

It is never about the money.  I only have to make enough to support my family. 

It is a very difficult road to traverse.  I cannot tell you how many gigs I have turned down because of material in question OR personnel problems. 

God has a plan for me.  He just has not revealed to me yet.  All I can do is pray about it. 

Peace,

Wolfram
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