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Author Topic: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?  (Read 5878 times)

Offline redtenorsax

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Why do so many music ministries, gospel performers, and preachers assume that the only musicians that matter are the rythm section and the singers.  Horns (if played properly) can move a congregation to a hightened meaningful worship experience.  I am from the south where you cannot throw a rock without hitting a decent horn player.  But up north they always ask us, "but what do you really play?" As if a horn is not an instrument.  We are rarely considered (especially when planning stagings) in songs, and WE GET PAID THE LEAST!!!  >:(  IF AT ALL!!!  And we master our instruments just like everyone else, maybe even more.  What's going on People? Where is the RESPECK?!!! ?/?

Offline Loopy

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2006, 01:44:58 PM »
WELCOME TO LGM!! :)
Romans 1:16

Offline redtenorsax

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2006, 01:45:04 PM »
Horns aren't even mentioned on this or any gospel musician websites!  :'(
No one loves us!  But they always want us to play for free w/out warning

Offline Loopy

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 01:47:49 PM »
Horns aren't even mentioned on this or any gospel musician websites!  :'(
No one loves us!  But they always want us to play for free w/out warning

THIS IS NOT CORRECT!! Please notice the "Gospel Horn" section of the message board!


Also I think horns are seen more as an "accessory" instrument, or "accent" instrument. Black gospel, especially in church, is a very keyboard/organ driven type of music. Horns definitely do add flavor, however, I don't think any MOM would want a horn section WITHOUT a keyboard, or organ, or drums, or bass, etc.
Romans 1:16

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 02:00:33 PM »
Welcome to LGM, Redtenorsax.  I feel your pain, but sometimes unfortunately a lot people haven't been exposed to a lot of horns in their average worship service, and don't really realize or appreciate the work that goes into mastering them and playing well. 

It's kinda like in the church, people give a lot of honor to the pulpit, but none to the janitor, when both are vital and anointed by God to do what they do.  Both put a lot of work into perfecting their gift and doing a great job, but from people, one gets all of the accolade, and one gets nothing.

Offline sixstringpoet

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 02:22:27 PM »
i feel ya bruh,  we do have a horn section in LGM though.  I know of one particular church organization that loves the horns, "House Of Prayer"  in fact their church is comprised of about 98 percent horns.   

Offline SisterT

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2006, 02:28:43 PM »
Horns aren't even mentioned on this or any gospel musician websites!  :'(
No one loves us!  But they always want us to play for free w/out warning

Welcome to LGM. I invite you to "cruise" around the site and take a look to see what we offer. As everyone has stated, the very thing you said this site is lacking, is in fact here.

We sympathize with your pain. There are many horn players here that can offer you support. I am moving this thread with a redirect so that you will know exactly where to find the horn section.

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2006, 02:30:54 PM »
Why do so many music ministries, gospel performers, and preachers assume that the only musicians that matter are the rythm section and the singers.  Horns (if played properly) can move a congregation to a hightened meaningful worship experience.  I am from the south where you cannot throw a rock without hitting a decent horn player.  But up north they always ask us, "but what do you really play?" As if a horn is not an instrument.  We are rarely considered (especially when planning stagings) in songs, and WE GET PAID THE LEAST!!!  >:(  IF AT ALL!!!  And we master our instruments just like everyone else, maybe even more.  What's going on People? Where is the RESPECK?!!! ?/?

Welcome to LGM...

I agree with you that horns are not used up here... As you stated they are frequently used in the south... So you have to open the door for the horns up here... If you are willing I know of a GREAT Church seeking a horn player...  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'll say this... If there were NO use for you... You wouldnt have learned the instrument...

Offline redtenorsax

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 05:53:53 PM »
I retract my statement about the site, and Appreciate the horn support.  I am totally agging (Houston Slang: short for "aggrevated")up here.  I'm from Houston, went to FAMU played all over the east coast form MIAMI to Connecticut.  But Chicago is very rhythm-centric.  But I still play because I love to play and I love to praise.  I don't love the sound of my own horn (which is why I don't practice much), but the sound of the praise body (ensemble pluss congregation &preacher).  I've played everything from jazz to rock to Tejano to build my chops.  But when I play those gospel songs its like Butta.  Its where I've gotta be because it comes so much more easily and fills me so much more.

I'm just now starting to get recognition in the Chicago Suburbs... particularly Rockford.  And in the city I could smash em all. But I need a chance.  It will just take me time, practice, and above all NETWORKING.

Until then If I want horns I'll go back home off that Bayou between Houston corridor to New Orleans where horns in church is like Crawfish in the Bayou.... Plenty!

Offline Jbroad572

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 07:39:18 PM »
Keep in mind, they can't solo like us  ;D
Nothing like a sax solo carrying the melody ushering in the presence. As far as praise and worship, bleh! We do a few fills and riffs here and there, unless you are in a contemporary praise and worship group and have a horn section.

Offline KurzLand

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2006, 12:13:12 AM »
        The church and other musicians need to understand that the horns were used a lot in the bible. So respect to you bro. What is going to sound when it's time for us to go home (heaven)? A horn. Not a piano or guitar or drums.

Everytime I see a trumpet or a sax or any other type of horn player I get joyed because the horns had new flavor to the music.
I have a alot of respect for the brass section cause I know that even blowing into any wind instrument takes time and practice.
Props to you and your fellow brassy friends. :D
"Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him." -A.Huxley

Offline youngs1234

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2006, 02:43:28 PM »
I feel ya bro! I am a sax player too, we are the thing that people love to hate. King David ushered the presence of God in the city for 24/7 with all types of horns. I pray that the body of Christ would read the word for what is says.

Sincerely,
fellow worshipper of Christ

Offline visionmike

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2006, 09:11:03 PM »
I am a firm believer that your gift will make room for you. That is why I continue to do what I do and ask for His anointing each and everytime I play. This way I KNOW I can't lose. The recognition will come when it's my season.
In everything you do, ALWAYS put God 1st!

Offline keynote

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2006, 11:36:27 PM »
People think that way, quite frankly because.... horns ARE expendible

Don't get me wrong, b/c I'm a horn player, and I'll blow up the spot in a minute ;)

But realistically speaking, in most genres of music - especially live gospel music with vocals, the heart of the band is the rhythym section... they're doin' most of the playin and coverin all the changes. Havin horns is the icing - they throw that extra flavor on top wit a hot lick or two. And, unless you got a full horn section (or at least 2 of y'all) it's gon' be pretty hard to hold down any song - more less a service by yourself unless you playin a special selection or somethin.

I think it's crucial for all horn players to know their role and be able to blend in with the band. Yeah can't nobody solo like us, or hit that high note, or what have you, but when you already got vocals AKA: MELODY, you gotta pick your spots and play with taste.... ain' nothin' worse than a horn player (or section) that tries to take over and is clashin' wit all the vocals and the leader of the song.

I give the rhythym section all the respect in the world... simply b/c they deserve it. If they ain't tight and locked together - the whole song will fall apart regardless of how good your horns are.... So, are horns expedible? Can you do without them in music that already has vocals? MOST DEFINATELY YES! But that doesn't mean they aren't valuable or don't add pizazz to the band overall, because they (we) do.
Take care and be blessed!  Ps 16

Offline visionmike

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2006, 11:46:46 PM »
People think that way, quite frankly because.... horns ARE expendible

Don't get me wrong, b/c I'm a horn player, and I'll blow up the spot in a minute ;)

But realistically speaking, in most genres of music - especially live gospel music with vocals, the heart of the band is the rhythym section... they're doin' most of the playin and coverin all the changes. Havin horns is the icing - they throw that extra flavor on top wit a hot lick or two. And, unless you got a full horn section (or at least 2 of y'all) it's gon' be pretty hard to hold down any song - more less a service by yourself unless you playin a special selection or somethin.

I think it's crucial for all horn players to know their role and be able to blend in with the band. Yeah can't nobody solo like us, or hit that high note, or what have you, but when you already got vocals AKA: MELODY, you gotta pick your spots and play with taste.... ain' nothin' worse than a horn player (or section) that tries to take over and is clashin' wit all the vocals and the leader of the song.

I give the rhythym section all the respect in the world... simply b/c they deserve it. If they ain't tight and locked together - the whole song will fall apart regardless of how good your horns are.... So, are horns expedible? Can you do without them in music that already has vocals? MOST DEFINATELY YES! But that doesn't mean they aren't valuable or don't add pizazz to the band overall, because they (we) do.

I respect your realness on that keynote. As much as I would like to, I can't argue with that.
In everything you do, ALWAYS put God 1st!

Offline KurzLand

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2006, 12:50:38 AM »
I forgot to mention. :-[ :P :D

The Music Director in my church is a trumpet and sax player. He plays keys too, but his strong instruments is the brass.
"Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him." -A.Huxley

Offline Cherri

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2006, 07:01:07 AM »
Welcome to LGM. I go out to hear Jazz occassionally, the horn(s) always move me. Recently, I purchased the best of Miles Davis, this has really open up my eyes to some new ideas for the drums and Bass. I don't play a horn at the present time ;), the horns gives me the drive of creativity. I have much respect for the horns.
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Offline theunit

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2006, 05:04:32 AM »
Well  this very insteresting indeed ,,the way that horns are used in sevice or your place of worship with other believers...Let me help you if  I can  I've been playing for years and still I don;t really get paid for playing horn thank
God I know keyboards....I soon found out that the place that God put me can't deal with my minstry. I  encourge you to think outside the box ; could it be that your ministry don't belong in side of the church ....For example, I play more outside of the walls  then I do inside of them...Create a church without walls take you ministry  to the streets man  as a famous quote said" the whole world is a stage" So tell me were do you want to play

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Offline Wolfram

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2006, 03:12:20 PM »
I live in Indiana.  I am used quite often.  There are a few really good reasons why churches shy away from horns:

1) You NEED the rhythm section or at least a great key/organ player.  There are many times when the rhythm section is all that church truly does need. 

2)  Space.  I am not talking about physical space, I mean musical space.  If you have a screaming organist, a guitar player with great chops, a piano player with ability, a bass player with funk and finally a tasty drummer, there is not a lot of musical room left over for another lead instrument.  Everyone has to give up a little space to make room for another lead instrument.

3) Choir interference.  If you play out of tune or you are always tromping on choir parts, you are hurting the situation.  That is something that I have seen happen over and over again and again. 

4) Quality.  If you are a beginner...  Then you have best go back to the practice room and shed some wood.  Jazz cats die in gospel music.  They over play.  R&B cats struggle with the keys.  You cannot play melody all the time.  What can you contribute if you do not have the same level of chops as the organist or the other musicians in the group.  Not much really, except noise level.

5) Charts.  Who writes them?  Don't tell me that you won't need them.  I have been playing for 25 years and most of those have been pro.  Charts make things MUCH smoother.  Can you read off the rhythm charts?  Do you know your chord changes, scales, arpeggios, etc...

6) Expectations and Reality:  The saxophone is very easy to pick up and make noise on.  It is much more difficult to perfect and play at the same level as some of these cats in the rhythm section.  You have to be reasonable in your requests and know your limits.  That also goes for other horns as well

Look, I know that we all want to jump in there and play our music fro Jesus.  I can understand the powerful desire to make a joyful noise.  The reality of the situation is that we are expendible.  A show can go on without us with no one being the wiser.  Adding a horn is like adding icing to a cake.  If you really want to make a big enough impact on a group to get a call in to play on a consistant basis, PRACTICE.  Take your music as seriously as the cats in the rythm section do.  Make sure that when you are called in, you know what you are doing.  Make it a no brainer for the M.M. to ask you to play.

I hope this is helpful

Peace,

Wolfram

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Re: Why do people think Horn Players are EXPENDIBLE? Do we not add Value?
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2006, 03:46:23 PM »
I don't know here in Baltimore all musicians show love...Horn players are the hardest to find..
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