Start a Petition to Ban Transposing

[Wolfram]

Again, I would have to address the situation as to what business or care is it of anyone else's what crutch someone uses to play music.  Guitar players have been tuning down and using capos for decades.

I still think that the point here is a little snobbish.  I believe that it is stellar if you can whiz around in twelve keys and if you can play as comfortably in Db as you can in E, then more power to you.

I do not think it really makes any difference to the congregation whether or not the keyboard player hit transpose or not, only to your pride.

All musicians should strive for growth, not all musicians are created equal.  That being said, I would caution placing either one's self on a pedestal or looking down on other musicians based on the pair of personal talent glasses you are wearing..  I bet there are players out there that could smoke some of you by using the transposition button...  It is not all cut and dry.  Do you think it matters to those that are listening? or to God, to whom this is all going toward anyway?

It is pride...  and that never leads to anything healthy.

Wolfram

[THE WOLFMAN]

Now there's a point.


It is an accepted thing for guitarist to use capos. in essence, transposing the guitar.

And yes, I'm sure God Has no problem with it.

[HustleMan]

Again, I would have to address the situation as to what business or care is it of anyone else's what crutch someone uses to play music.  Guitar players have been tuning down and using capos for decades.

I still think that the point here is a little snobbish.  I believe that it is stellar if you can whiz around in twelve keys and if you can play as comfortably in Db as you can in E, then more power to you.

I do not think it really makes any difference to the congregation whether or not the keyboard player hit transpose or not, only to your pride.

All musicians should strive for growth, not all musicians are created equal.  That being said, I would caution placing either one's self on a pedestal or looking down on other musicians based on the pair of personal talent glasses you are wearing..  I bet there are players out there that could smoke some of you by using the transposition button...  It is not all cut and dry.  Do you think it matters to those that are listening? or to God, to whom this is all going toward anyway?

It is pride...  and that never leads to anything healthy.

Wolfram

Firstly, for you to say: "not all musicians are created equal" is probably the biggest cop-out i've seen on this board.

You're wrong.  All musicians ARE created equal.......WITH NO KNOWLEDGE OF MUSIC.

When you start, you have a choice.  Either go full force and try to master your instrument, or do things half-way.

This thread should not DISCOURAGE people who use the transpose, but more ENcourage them to step out of their comfort zone and learn how to play in every key.

I play better in Ab and Db than I play in any other keys.  HOWEVER, if somebody gets up and sings in B, I can follow them.  It won't sound as good as if they sang in Ab, but I can efffectively follow them.

This is Learngospelmusic.com man.  We're here to encourage each other and build each other up.  If I think (no, I KNOW) that transposing will benefit you in the short term, but hinder your ear in the long term, I'm going to say so.

TRANSPOSING WILL BENEFIT YOU IN THE SHORT TERM, BUT HINDER YOUR EAR IN THE LONG TERM.

There may be EMERGENCY situations where you need it, but for the most part, try to become proficient in every key.

It ain't pride to tell the truth in an attempt to build up your brother/sister.  It's careless not to.

[Wolfram]

You are definitely entitled to your opinion.

God gifts us in varying degrees.  While at music school, I saw that in abundance...  You can teach music to anybody, but that does not make all musicians equal when it comes to talent.

I do not worry much about what my fellow musician is doing with his electronics.  As long as he is playing and it sounds goo, it matters very little to me. 

My father played guitar in some big name big bands...  He capo'd...  Huh, maybe he sucked too...  tune down their basses and guitars so that they could save the singers voices but still play all the power licks in the right keys for them... some famous people there... they must have sucked...

I guess this is sort of like joining that one elite group in high school.  You are either in or not. 

Music is not complicated...  People make it complicated...  I have been playing for 25 years and I can tell you that it has NEVER come up whether or not the keyboard player was playing using the transpose button.

If a musician wants to grow in music, then he will choose to learn to play in other keys.  If he is content in the knowledge he already has and nobody seems to be lacking for it...  That is also his or her choice. 

Don't make this such an issue because truthfully it is not.  I play sax in twelve keys.  I play keyboards in twelve keys.

It is more of an issue with sax because there is no transpose button.

[Wolfram]

P.S.  I am fully aware that this site is dedicated to LEARNING and I would encourage anyone to continue to do so.  I just wanted to point out that making comments like "ban this or forbid that" is not productive.  Not everyone is in this for the same reasons.  Some want to perfect their game, some just play for fun.  Some on this board are pro, some would like to be, and others are content to be hobbyists.  Broad "banning" statements without considering everythin is just plain ignorant.  That church sign was the biggest 'sign' of that ignorance I had ever seen...

[jonesl78]

Howbout that.  This is coming from someone who has not mastered all keys yet. (But is trying).  Transposing can help as much as it can hurt.  DO NOT LIMIT YOURSELF.  Learning a song chord for chord and note for note is fine.  But why limit yourself.  The courtesy it to learn the song the way it was recorded, then add your own flavor.  What bothers me is when people say "that's not how they did it on the album".  At what point do we allow the annointing to play a part in how we play or sing a song?

I like your motivation and your will to grow in your music ministry. I would like to challenge you to learn a song chord for chord and note for note. Adding your own flavor is very important and it is what makes you unique. On the other hand it can be limiting if this process is applied to every song you learn. Learning a song note for note/ transcribing  is a technique that is difficult at first but will enhance your ear and your playing ability as a whole. If you could transcribe a song and add your flavor it would elevate your music ministry to a whole new level.

[rjthakid]

God gifts us in varying degrees.  While at music school, I saw that in abundance...  You can teach music to anybody, but that does not make all musicians equal when it comes to talent.

Our problem is that we don't seek excellence.  We want a quick fix.  We want to be able to do some sexy fancy lick and make people go 

It's not about talent.  It's about DESIRE.  Talent?  Man, if you practice enough, ANYTHING is possible.  Talent?  You're as good as you WANT to be.  If you WANT to be great, practice enough and you will be. 

Transposing hurts you.  What if your keyboard breaks down and you go to another church with your pastor?  Will you ask the house musician where the transpose is?  He WILL look at you like   

BUT I DO understand where you're coming from when you say that some people are just hobbyists and don't take this quite as seriously as others.  It's true.  There are people who only play the Organ (where there IS no transpose) or Keys as a secondary instrument and not as a primary one.

I maintain that if ANYONE is playing in the House of the Lord, they SHOULD try to perfect their gift, but I understand that that isn't always the case.

[Wolfram]

Desire sometimes is not enough... 

Just because somebody WANTS to be a player, doesn't MAKE them a player.  All the practice in the world won't help you at all if you have no God - given skills...  I know many players that practice all the time but still do not have IT...  Maybe my life experiences are different than yours...

Music is a personal thing.  You either get it... or you don't.  You can be book smart about it, but that doesn't make you a musician, only a scientist.

The average musician is happy in their mediocrity.  That is why they are average.  That is why it is none of my business as to whether or not they are playing with transposition help or not...  My journey is mine, theirs is theirs.  The stopping points are different.

Peace,

Wolfram

[rjthakid]

The average musician is happy in their mediocrity.  That is why they are average. 

We certainly agree on this.   

[WithLuvKay]

Wow, Tough Love???????? Learn to play in all keys, You'll find it Rewarding.

[rjthakid]

Wow, Tough Love???????? Learn to play in all keys, You'll find it Rewarding.

 

[MewsikHarris32]

people fail to realize the situations that alot of musicains are in. Alot of times th musicain is the preacher's kid (PK) and had to jump on the organ/keyboard because there was no one else. In that case, probably with little instruction and ALOT of God's blessing, they started to develope. So lets say, they have been playing for a year, with little to none instruction and know 6 keys, and someone sings a song in a different key than rehearsed (I say this because it happens alot). Is the transpose button wrong? Not it if was in the middle of service and you didn't want to be a hinderance by plucking around or runnin IV-V-I to death. AS LONG AS THAT MUSICAIN GOES HOME AND LEARNS/PRACTICES in the key they didn't learn, I think it's ok. It's a process to become skilled, just don't let the T- button slow that process.

I wrote a song a while back
(****to the tune "Jesus,The Great I Am*****)

We don't have use that button anymore
We don't have to fake, the keys we don't know
Practice will help you
Learn all the keys
Either that, or play the B-3!

Be Blessed

[jonesl78]

You are definitely entitled to your opinion.

God gifts us in varying degrees.  While at music school, I saw that in abundance...  You can teach music to anybody, but that does not make all musicians equal when it comes to talent.

I do not worry much about what my fellow musician is doing with his electronics.  As long as he is playing and it sounds goo, it matters very little to me. 

My father played guitar in some big name big bands...  He capo'd...  Huh, maybe he sucked too...  tune down their basses and guitars so that they could save the singers voices but still play all the power licks in the right keys for them... some famous people there... they must have sucked...

I guess this is sort of like joining that one elite group in high school.  You are either in or not. 

Music is not complicated...  People make it complicated...  I have been playing for 25 years and I can tell you that it has NEVER come up whether or not the keyboard player was playing using the transpose button.

If a musician wants to grow in music, then he will choose to learn to play in other keys.  If he is content in the knowledge he already has and nobody seems to be lacking for it...  That is also his or her choice. 

Don't make this such an issue because truthfully it is not.  I play sax in twelve keys.  I play keyboards in twelve keys.

It is more of an issue with sax because there is no transpose button.

I got something different from your post than everyone else. It seems as though it is not the act of using the transpose but but rather the judgement and negetive impressions that a musician faces when amongst his peers. It goes beyond the transpose button. It could be the skill level, who you play for, runs, progressions, what kind of keyboard you have. I was recently in an environment of musicians that seemed more like a competition. 

 Personally, I like to see musicians profient in all keys but I would not expect someone's goals to be identical to mine.

[B3Wannabe]

I posted a clip of a concert we did this year, where Joe Pace came and did a workshop. The dude on the keys was tearing it up, but someone on here pointed out that he had transposed. I'm thinking like, but are you playing with Joe Pace?

LOL

Even though I don't transpose now, transposing isn't going to stop the service, and that's a prime example that it doesn't even matter to some big name artists.

It's true that you SHOULD try to learn all the keys, if this is your calling, but if it's not, in my opinion, just getting by is really enough. I can play a few instruments, but I'm not trying to master all of them. I just get by on the drums, and that's ok for me. It doesn't matter if I don't know all the rudiments. I just play when I NEED to. Now the problem is when you act like you're called to do a certain thing and don't prepare yourself for it fully. If you feel God is calling you to play piano then you need to learn all the keys....otherwise, hit that transpose and keep going. That's my opinion.

[Wolfram]

I got something different from your post than everyone else. It seems as though it is not the act of using the transpose but but rather the judgement and negetive impressions that a musician faces when amongst his peers. It goes beyond the transpose button. It could be the skill level, who you play for, runs, progressions, what kind of keyboard you have. I was recently in an environment of musicians that seemed more like a competition. 

 Personally, I like to see musicians profient in all keys but I would not expect someone's goals to be identical to mine.

Thank you...  That was my entire point.

I feel like a light bulb finally went on out there. 

Peace,

Wolfram

[THE WOLFMAN]

The dude on the keys was tearing it up, but someone on here pointed out that he had transposed. I'm thinking like, but are you playing with Joe Pace?

now that's a point.

If I'm the MD of an event, and i see my keyboard guy transposes, as long as he doesnt screw up, who cares. Dont disturb this groove...(wow, flashback..)

for years, when i was getting my chops together, since I was a "Midi Master" I finessed the "art" of the transpose. especially when was on a 4-synth rig.

(something like that..it's an OLD pic.)


Does that mean I call for mediocrity in the craft? NO. Do I still practice my rudiments? YES.

That's just what I had to do for that moment, for that time. and it got the job done.

[HustleMan]

So basically, we're all saying the same thing.


If you're SERIOUS about playing, learn how to play in all 12 keys.

If you're not really serious about playing, or you just started and haven't had the time to learn all the keys yet, then do what you need to get by.  Not just because then you can say "Hey I can play in all 12 keys!", but because once you learn a song that has a pretty sounding progression, you can use that progression in different keys.  So when you know how to play in all keys, you'll eventually see how everything is connected.  It'll click.  When it does, you'll start using one progression in 3 different keys.  lol.  It'll all come together, and in the long run you'll be a better musician for it.

I would ENCOURAGE anyone who isn't serious to become serious about it if you're playing in the house of the Lord.  But to each his own, right?

[Cherri]

Hustleman, I can see outside the Supreme Courts protesting!

[Lamonte 1990]

Here's my two cents........

I am guilty of using the t-button, but I DOO play in all keys!!!!!  I might know how to play in all keys.. but If i don't feel like movin' my fingers all that much up down the board.. I juz transpose... I mean Sweet Lord Have mercy is it a CRIME!?!?!?!?!?!?

now look... I don't have the Holy Ghost yet, but if i t-pose or not, GOD's sprit is in my playing, he knows anyway if I play in all keys or not... He juz wants you to play for HIM and HIM only, EVEN if I am a t-pose user and y'all don't like it... OH WELL SO BE IT!!!!!!! I'm playing to please GOD and NOT Y'ALL(no offense... )

[rroodd5491]

Why r u so against transposing. Some musicians need to transpose until they can pplay iin all keys.