LearnGospelMusic.com Community

Please login or register.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music  (Read 2485 times)

Godsbassman

  • Guest
(Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« on: September 16, 2006, 07:29:03 AM »
I believe a Bass can get more out learning to Read Music than Theory. Because when you learn to read music that help to aid your playing style. Plus YOu really do not have to learn a song,just read the sheet music.

 I can't see how Theory can help a bass player, unless you're planing on writing music.

Don't get me wrong, I do not know either. But have tried both and found my playing got better by trying to play while reading music.
 Kinda like when you sing or hum while you play.

We need to talk about this more because why waste time on sometime that can't help MUCH.
Also, why not do some kind of memory workout? As we get older our memory and mind get weaker. Alone with everyday stress.

Offline 4hisglory

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
  • Gender: Male
    • Learn Gospel Musiic

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2006, 07:36:13 AM »
Reading music is like reading a book.  Understanding theory is like understand what you just read.
:)

Godsbassman

  • Guest
Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2006, 07:46:09 AM »
Reading music is like reading a book.  Understanding theory is like understand what you just read.
4hisglory help me and us out if you can,you know all of these areas? Thinking as a bass player only,what do  you think will help the most?
And why this is what we need to know or try to figure out.

Thanks man

Godsbassman

  • Guest
Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2006, 07:47:55 AM »
4hisglory help me and us out if you can,you know all of these areas? Thinking as a bass player only,what do  you think will help the most?
And why, this is what we need to know or try to figure out.

Thanks man
While you're here turn on the edit options

Offline jeremyr

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2215
  • Gender: Male
  • Callowhill fanatic
    • My Youtube Chanel

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2006, 08:42:21 AM »
Reading music is like reading a book.  Understanding theory is like understand what you just read.

Exactly.  To be quite blunt for 99.9% of the people that just read music they can't "Play music".  They can only read.  If you said make a song using the following progression they wouldn't know where to start.  I say this because that use to be me.  I only read music for 11 years and I was GOOD.  I won many national competitions and audiitons with my playing, but I was hindered to only being able to play what was in front of me. 

Now that I have put some good time into knowing my theory I can get a basic outline and run  with it.  I know how to creat passing tones that match what i'm playing and not just match what someone else played.  I know how to plyay more then set or kind of passing tones other then those I heard someone else play because I know understand what makes them work.

Learning to read music IS beneficial and very important, but you'll never reach a higher level of playing if you don't take the time to understand theory. 

The theory lets you understand why the sheet music does what it does and sounds good.
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline 4hisglory

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
  • Gender: Male
    • Learn Gospel Musiic

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2006, 08:48:21 AM »
While you're here turn on the edit options

The function is turned on for the people with the little green stars below there name (the supports of the website).
:)

Offline 4hisglory

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
  • Gender: Male
    • Learn Gospel Musiic

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2006, 08:50:36 AM »
I don't read music really, but wish I did.   In order to be a well rounded musician, you need to be able to all these things, read music, understand theory, play by ear, etc.....
:)

Offline jeremyr

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2215
  • Gender: Male
  • Callowhill fanatic
    • My Youtube Chanel

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2006, 09:04:16 AM »
I don't read music really, but wish I did.   In order to be a well rounded musician, you need to be able to all these things, read music, understand theory, play by ear, etc.....

i would actaully put playing by ear and theory as the same thing.  I've found that the more intimate i get with my theory the faster and easier i find myself being able to hear a song and just play it. 

I was studying around 2 nights ago and decided to pick up a song.   I then learned the complete bass line to "space cowboy" in about 15 minutes
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline MikeGee

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2508
  • Gender: Male
  • My wife is over my right shoulder.
    • my out of church band

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2006, 09:18:17 AM »
Theory is important to me cuz our MOM does not give us sheet music she gives us lead sheets and chord charts. When reading a chord chart if I didn't know what notes make up a Gbsus4 I'd be stuck just guessing and risk not sounding very well. Theory helps me to get by even though I'm not that good at playing bass.


Saying theory probably won't help a bass player is like saying theory probably won't help a piano player.

I read music at a "2nd grade level". My theory is beyond that.

Godsbassman

  • Guest
Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2006, 09:24:52 AM »
The function is turned on for the people with the little green stars below there name (the supports of the website).
4hisglory how do one get the green stars? Also back on topic,jusk asking something my 12 year have played the clarinet for a year now.
She learn to play in school by reading music.

She can tell me the key a song is in. So she is now teaching me to read and play. I been doing scales while reading. I can say this it maybe me but something is going on with my ear and playing and FOCUS.

Offline uriahsmusic

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3392
  • Gender: Male
    • http://WWW.URIAHSMUSIC.COM

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2006, 10:05:13 AM »
....I am not sure how you can read with out knowing theory....because theory is the part of reading....you may think you dont know some theory but you do!

reading is great for a few reasons....

there are pieces of music that you can play and learn very quickly that would otherwise take you years to learn and pick up correctly...by reading you could do it in minutes!!!

also many pro situations simple for time and accuracy sake hand you a sheet and expect you to fly!$$$$$ lost if you cant hang!

Much of my chording style came from breaking down scores from cartoon music...Orchestral stuff....mega chord progression ideas in orchestral stuff...cartoons...movie stuff!!!...KApow!!!!

As for theory knowing things like minor 9ths and major 7ths a minor third apart are gennerally interchangable and so are their runs...can really turn heads when played!

or a 6/9 chord a whole step lower can replace a dominat 7the chord

theory is cool....also when a discussion breaks out about music and you dont want to feel stupid!

studying many things will make you more confident in life in general....

In my opinion...if the opportunity arises...you should try to read music first then learn to play by ear or at least in the beginning do the in sinc!

because once you start playing well....it gets in the way of practicing how to read....and there is no reason not to get some theory down...cuz you dont need to know how to play to learn the rules of the game....you can get a lot of theory going by sitting down with a good book or on a forum!

this ha been a public service announcement by...URIAH!

Godsbassman

  • Guest
Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2006, 10:21:08 AM »
....I am not sure how you can read with out knowing theory....because theory is the part of reading....you may think you dont know some theory but you do!

reading is great for a few reasons....

there are pieces of music that you can play and learn very quickly that would otherwise take you years to learn and pick up correctly...by reading you could do it in minutes!!!

also many pro situations simple for time and accuracy sake hand you a sheet and expect you to fly!$$$$$ lost if you cant hang!

Much of my chording style came from breaking down scores from cartoon music...Orchestral stuff....mega chord progression ideas in orchestral stuff...cartoons...movie stuff!!!...KApow!!!!

As for theory knowing things like minor 9ths and major 7ths a minor third apart are gennerally interchangable and so are their runs...can really turn heads when played!

or a 6/9 chord a whole step lower can replace a dominat 7the chord

theory is cool....also when a discussion breaks out about music and you dont want to feel stupid!

studying many things will make you more confident in life in general....

In my opinion...if the opportunity arises...you should try to read music first then learn to play by ear or at least in the beginning do the in sinc!

because once you start playing well....it gets in the way of practicing how to read....and there is no reason not to get some theory down...cuz you dont need to know how to play to learn the rules of the game....you can get a lot of theory going by sitting down with a good book or on a forum!

this ha been a public service announcement by...URIAH!
I kinda believe if the new bass players take some time with reading music at first, it will be more helpful than spending alot of time on theory.
There's always room to expand later, because you can't learn how to play quarter,half and whole notes,triplets,16 notes, :o32 notes :o
Just my take

Offline 4hisglory

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11073
  • Gender: Male
    • Learn Gospel Musiic

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2006, 11:27:17 AM »
i would actaully put playing by ear and theory as the same thing.  I've found that the more intimate i get with my theory the faster and easier i find myself being able to hear a song and just play it. 

I wouldn't put those two in the same category at all.  I kow alot of musicians that don't read, don't know a thing about a scale or any theory but can play by ear.
:)

Godsbassman

  • Guest
Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2006, 12:34:57 PM »
I wouldn't put those two in the same category at all.  I kow alot of musicians that don't read, don't know a thing about a scale or any theory but can play by ear.
So between the two which do you think best to learn first for a bass player? Learn about reading music or Theory?

Offline MikeGee

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2508
  • Gender: Male
  • My wife is over my right shoulder.
    • my out of church band

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2006, 03:22:36 PM »
Learning to a musician is a lot like  building a house.


There's several things you need to make a good house.

A house with out windows will still protect you, the house will still serve it's purpose.

A house with out electric will still get you by.

There's a lot of parts of a house that doesn't have to be there, but they all help.

The house can be brick it can be wood or concrete. It can be heated with electric, gas, or oil.

I said all that to say just do. The only thing that has to happen is touch the hearts of the listeners, worship GOD and make GOOD MUSIC!

Offline BassMan2000

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 315
  • Gender: Male
  • My Bass Guitar

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2006, 04:42:57 PM »
I played by ear for years and became very good, Then I started playing Praise and Worship. I could
not follow the Progressions and the runs. So, I started to learn Theory and now my eyes are open.

I can hear a song and pick out the progressions and understand the flow much better.
My solos what improved the most. I know where to go and why.

I can read music, but I hardly get a chance to use it.

Offline ddwilkins

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2199
  • Gender: Male
  • My Arsenal!!!!
    • D'Wayne's Spot

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2006, 06:48:54 PM »
All musicians at some point should learn both.  It will not hender you as a bass player.  I started by ear, then read music, now I can understand what I'm hearing and reading with my theory.  It makes me that more better as a musician and a bass player. 
Keep God first and he'll do the rest!!!

Offline Willie L. Terry Jr

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 323
  • Gender: Male

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2006, 07:30:44 PM »
Uriah was the one who nailed it on the head.  Any music professor will tell you that reading is a part of theory.  So is ear training.  They both are minor subjects that make up the larger concept of theory.  When "Gospel" people think of theory they mostly thing of scales and modes but that's only one part of theory training.  If you go to www.cyberfretbass.com you will see that when you say theory you're talking about several subjects.

Yes everyone should learn to read or at a minimum be able to identify key signatures because for us bassist, once we know the key signatures, it's just a matter of hand placement because once you place the your hand in the correct position then all the notes for that particular scale should be under your fingers. 

Theory bassed on Godsbassman's definition may not be important because some kats have dynamic ears.  Here's the problem with having great ear without any theory training.  1.  You can't teach effectively.  If you have to explain to another bassist what you did who is seasoned or even a new player, you just say "Play it like this."  2.  Your ability to communicate with other musicians specifically trained musicians especially keyboardist, it limited.  Leads to more confusion.  3.  You ability to be creative during improv is limited because part of theory teaches you how to play the notes that sound good or match the progression that you make in a song.


The answer is balance:  If you really want to be good, learn all of it.  If you think of scales as theory than it is important.  It will give you lines more definition.

My two cents...
Psalms 144:1  Blessed be the Lord my rock who teaches my hands to war and my FINGAZ to fight!

Offline jeremyr

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2215
  • Gender: Male
  • Callowhill fanatic
    • My Youtube Chanel

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2006, 10:29:06 AM »
I wouldn't put those two in the same category at all.  I kow alot of musicians that don't read, don't know a thing about a scale or any theory but can play by ear.

i have to disagree.  To play music by ear you must understand music.  You have to have some kind of knowledge of intervals and how they relate to one another.  That is theory.  The person may not know all the technical and world accepted terms, but they know theory. 
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline Willie L. Terry Jr

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 323
  • Gender: Male

Re: (Thinking out Loud) Theory Vs. Reading Music
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2006, 10:08:37 PM »
I have to disagree...know the technical terms is part of theory.  Please reference number "2" of my doctoral disseration on theory.  The ability to communicate with other musicians is important. 

I seriously believe this but I understand if most don't agree.  I only speak from what works for me which I know is an objective opinion to take it with a grain of salt.

Just know if you take lessons from me or work for a band that I put together, you better know some theory, terms, intervals, at least be able to look at the charts and pick out key signatures or something.  I had an experience last night with musicians who don't know theory and we were doing contemporary gospel which is some of the easiest stuff in the world but it made for a horrible practice.  2 hours we cover 3 songs.  Although we hadn't heard the songs before we should have at a minimum got the progressions down.  Now I'm venting...  gotta  go!

Yall have fun with this one...  Like someone else said, "Never stop learning, you're only limiting yourself."

T.J.
Psalms 144:1  Blessed be the Lord my rock who teaches my hands to war and my FINGAZ to fight!
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up