"Street Ball complex"

[shall176]

Thats just a phrase I came up with.  But does this exist?  For sake of discussion...there are a great many drummers that have made it to elite level or near elite level that started out in the church.  many of them had formal schooling in drums and percussion, but there are still many that did not, and are blazing the trail for more to follow.  However, much of the top level work is monopolized by the same people.  I know there are many legitimate reasons for this, but for sake of debate...do you feel there is a stigma associated with church/gospel drummers, much like with street ball players?  That is, these guys like those on the and1 mix tape tour.  mad talented, where NBA players won't take them on cuz they KNOW they would get embarrassed, but yet very few can make it in the NBA.  Then when one tries to make it, they have to fight off the tag and prove they can.  The same can be said for some of us.  All licks no pocket.  Can't read music Trying to show off etc.  If you think it exists, how much does that hurts gospel drummers in general? 

[bigblackdrummer]

Good post! It does, and its funny because people think that if they over play in a successful drummers style that it will get them somewhere and that is so far from the truth! Yes you will get praise BUT praise from the wrong people! I think more drummers need to take a leadership role and start their own projects..Also they need to take their own careers into their own hands and start to market themselves....lots of drummers have myspace sites with no clips of their playing, how am I suppose to hear you and know you can play!

[eugenio]

Yeh I think having a drive is important. I'm trying to do as much as I can. Oh and thanks for reminder BBD need a clip for the myspace! 

[JFunky]

Good post! It does, and its funny because people think that if they over play in a successful drummers style that it will get them somewhere and that is so far from the truth! Yes you will get praise BUT praise from the wrong people! I think more drummers need to take a leadership role and start their own projects..Also they need to take their own careers into their own hands and start to market themselves....lots of drummers have myspace sites with no clips of their playing, how am I suppose to hear you and know you can play!

...very true. 

[freddyfusion]

actually the truth is that most of the street ball players wouldn't make it....
what we don't see is many of the ones who go to tryouts and stuff and can't cut it when it comes to the knowledge discipline and fundamentals of playing the game...... yeah you can make a dude trip with his shirt over his head... but can you help your team win....... learn an offense inside and out.- play defense....be disciplined enough to do what is really neccessary...  even run the required amount.....etc.
the same goes for many urban gospal styled drummers....... feel me.... i was always told that if you are good enough no one can deny you..... of couse there are exeptions... but just like us, if they went to tryouts/ gigs and showed what they talked there's NO coach that is going to see someone who will elevate the team and common goal and say "nope, he's going to make people look bad" and even if one does... not all of them will.....
i say all that to say... many times it IS lack of fundamentals, ability to work and mesh with others (musically), etc. that keeps us back...... not the "powers that be"...... no matter what the stigma is, it can be over thrown
hope i understood what you were saying correctly

[shall176]

yeah.  YOu pretty much said what I was saying.  I was basically asking if people felt that gospel drummers where viewed in that manner, and how much does it affect the masses, meaning that even a learned drummer has to overcome.  I do believe it exists, not just for gospel drummers but others as well.  I have a friend who is considered by many one of the better jazz drummers in the country.  However, once people hear that he went to Julliard, they automatically think all he can play is straight ahead jazz.  That he is light on funk, rock or other genres.  Some gospel drummers may have the tag of selfish flashy show offs, and that does affect those that are not....especially, when it is conceived that that is the norm.

[SabianKnight]

actually the truth is that most of the street ball players wouldn't make it....
what we don't see is many of the ones who go to tryouts and stuff and can't cut it when it comes to the knowledge discipline and fundamentals of playing the game...... yeah you can make a dude trip with his shirt over his head... but can you help your team win....... learn an offense inside and out.- play defense....be disciplined enough to do what is really neccessary...  even run the required amount.....etc.
the same goes for many urban gospal styled drummers....... feel me.... i was always told that if you are good enough no one can deny you..... of couse there are exeptions... but just like us, if they went to tryouts/ gigs and showed what they talked there's NO coach that is going to see someone who will elevate the team and common goal and say "nope, he's going to make people look bad" and even if one does... not all of them will.....
i say all that to say... many times it IS lack of fundamentals, ability to work and mesh with others (musically), etc. that keeps us back...... not the "powers that be"...... no matter what the stigma is, it can be over thrown
hope i understood what you were saying correctly

Great and true points....

yeah.  YOu pretty much said what I was saying.  I was basically asking if people felt that gospel drummers where viewed in that manner, and how much does it affect the masses, meaning that even a learned drummer has to overcome.  I do believe it exists, not just for gospel drummers but others as well.  I have a friend who is considered by many one of the better jazz drummers in the country.  However, once people hear that he went to Julliard, they automatically think all he can play is straight ahead jazz.  That he is light on funk, rock or other genres.  Some gospel drummers may have the tag of selfish flashy show offs, and that does affect those that are not....especially, when it is conceived that that is the norm.

This is the real deal. "Drummers" need to stop being drummers and be Percussionists/Musicians. Presentation and perception are in the eyes of men. The falsehoods that many urban guys present hurts the whole... Music requires discipline and understanding not guts and glory survival tactics. Stop half learning the instrument and the position it holds. Most "drummers" don't realize that the piano is a percussion instrument and that raely a music theory training goes by that does not refer to it. It comes from the African bilophone - mallet instrument forerunner of the vibes and marimba (which has no black keys). "Drummers" today don't want to learn music theory and therefore cut themselves out of learning/understanding MUSIC. Music is not a feeling... as many "DRUMMERS" in the urban culture would like to believe.

See wrong information yeilds wrong though processes which lead to wrong positioning, lack of preparation and poor presentation in jackeckked up ego driven false bravado nurtured in foolishness. Just like in sports activities, music preparation for a pro status or yet basic profeciency requires repetion and mastery at ever level with the undestanding of formal application in a natural/internalized response. Make it a reflex. KNow that you know. Adapt and respond. However, if you shelter yourself from the actual experience of different scenarios that are a part of the activity you hurt yourself, decrease you value to music application, decrease you viability as an option. Possible more important you do not know how to govern yourself in the presence of a different genre/playing scenario therefore proving yourself to be a disruption to those whom are better prepared/fully prepared and hold a certain amount of respect for the situation. Show no respect for an adversary/oppsition/situation and it will cost you immeasurably.

Reality is we have to show ourselves approved in every situation. Proven by at least the established standards. We have to understand the rules before we can fix what is wrong or even consciously strech them or break down barriers to blaze new trails. Our visions should be on the music and mastery of our particular instruments not the genre, not the pay check, not the fame, not being the star of the show, not on be an instrumentalist... but being a musician. Communicating the truth within. Question is do you/we have any truth in us because truth starts with self-examination and willingness to correct/be corrected to complete the purpose of the task at hand.

[Furious Styles]

Shall 176 makes a great point. It is a stigma but I think that Gospel drummers have helped with that stigma as well. WE are known throughout the world as some of the most tasteful drummers but we can be some of the most arrogant. Gospel is only one genre. It is great to have a style that has multiplicity to it but if your focus is on God and not a particular genre then it wouldn't matter as much. I love jazz, funk, fusion, and gospel drummers however I learned that nothing good comes from comparing myself with the level of gigs I get compared to other drummers gospel or secular. In my day very few church drummers got the fundamental training. Most of the guys that did they couldn't play a set worth anything. The guys with the natural gift were the baddest cats around. I think that has changed somewhat because the last 10 plus years I have seen gospel drummers embrace the craft much more than my generation. (I finished high school in the early 90's)

These young boyz are killing it. I accept that these guys are on their game and that they are more creative than I will ever dream to be. Gospel drummers are special because of the anointing that we have been able to sit under and be apart of. We experience backlash in the secular because most people don't understand it. They mistake anoninting for talent. We reciprocate by mistaking talent for anointing. In the secular world you have to be tight. You have to have a plethora of skills and thick skin. The streetball analogy is perfect analogy.
The street ball guys bring a different element to the game. Some NBA players are exposed as average on their level as well. The NBA is the safe way to get paid. Streetball can be more pure. I've learned to appreciate streeball more than I used to just as I've learned to appreciate a drummers natural prowess in addition to the technical skills a drummer can definetly learn from. Tomato Tamata...