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Offline T-Block

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Challenge ?'s
« on: September 28, 2006, 11:09:50 AM »
Hey music theory students, it's challenge time.  As yall probably know, I am very serious about learning music theory, so I have come up with some challenge questions for all of you out there.  This challenge can be taken by anyone no matter what skill level you are at.  Answer as many as you can, and I will be back later with the answers.  Read the questions very carefully before answering, some of them may be a little tricky.  Also, if you can, please show how u came up with the answers:

Easy

1. How many sharps (#) are in the key of F?

2. How do I turn a diminished chord into an augmented?

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, D-Bb?

4. What is a scale?

5. Why are there no sharps (#) or flats (b) in the key of C?


Medium

1. How many flats (b) are in the key of B minor?

2. How do I turn a minor chord into a major 9th chord?

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, Bb-C#?

4. Which scale degree starts the mixolydian scale?

5. What is the difference between an augmented 4th and a diminished 5th?


Hard

1. How many sharps are there in the key of E#?

2. How do i turn a min11th chord into a major chord?

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, A#-Ab?

4. What is the formula for playing a phrigian scale?

5. What is the difference between a triad and a chord?


Good luck everyone!!! ;D
Real musicians play in every key!!!
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Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2006, 12:44:44 PM »
Key E#

E#, Fx, Gx, A#, B#, Cx, Dx, E#

4 sharps
3 double sharps


In the ancient days (waaaaaay back) you'd see enharmonic keys like this, but it was corrected in the 1800s. The only enharmonic keys left are B/Cb, C#/Db, and F#/Gb.

There are, however, 2 E# modal keys  E# Phrygian and E# Locrian, but you'd rarely see E# Locrian, because the tonic is diminished, it is unstable and wants to resolve to F#major.

Offline Spiritfingaz

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2006, 12:47:01 PM »
Easy
1. key of F has no sharps by western standards, but if you wanted to talk about enharmonics it would have A#
2. Instead of flatting the fifth you can sharp or raise it. And raise the third
3. This is a minor 6th or a major third depending on how you look at it
4. a series of notes beginning and ending on the same pitch.
5. because its key signature does not have any lol

Medium
1. As before none, because western music regards it as having sharps, but enharmonically it has D flat, G flat, B flat
2. raise the third and also add the dominant or major seventh, since you did not specify and at the 2nd tone of that major scale which is also the ninth
3. I know this is probably wrong, harmonically it’s a minor third, but the way you wrote it makes it I think an augmented 2nd, but I don't remember if there is a such thing
4. lol whatever scale degree that you want to start on the fact that its mixolydian means that you use the key signature of wherever that eky is the fifth of the major scale, i.e. C mixolydian is CDEFGABbC
5. The difference is the name, harmonically they sound the same, its just a different way to write things, depending on what the composer is trying to accomplish and what makes since for the particular piece/era of music.

Hard
1. no such thing in western music as E# however, if you wanted to have E sharp the notes would be E#, F double sharp, G double sharp, A sharp, B sharp, C double sharp, D double sharp, E#, so you would have I guess 7 sharps or 3 sharps and 7 double sharps
2. raise the third, I'm assuming the 11th isn't flatted
3. oooh good question lol it’s a whole step, so a major 2nd when you hear it, but the way you wrote it I think it may be called something different, but I'm not sure.
4. You would take whatever the third is of that major scale, apply the key signature and play it so if you're playing an F phrygian scale you would start on F and use a Db key signature
5. To my understanding a triad has three tones, whereas a chord can have as many as your hands are able to play be it 10 or 12 or whatever you fingers can reach.


Loooking forward to the answers, this was challening…MORE MORE MORE lol
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Offline gordonk47

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2006, 08:19:59 AM »
gk47

Easy

1. How many sharps (#) are in the key of F? zero

2. How do I turn a diminished chord into an augmented? sharp the 3rd a 1/2 step and the 5 1 whole step

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, D-Bb? minor 6th

4. What is a scale? a series of notes beginning and  ending on the same note

5. Why are there no sharps (#) or flats (b) in the key of C? key signature specifies that it doesn't


Medium

1. How many flats (b) are in the key of B minor? zero

2. How do I turn a minor chord into a major 9th chord? raise the third a half step

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, Bb-C#? min 3rd

4. Which scale degree starts the mixolydian scale? fifth

5. What is the difference between an augmented 4th and a diminished 5th? no difference, the same


Hard

1. How many sharps are there in the key of E#? E# is the same as F, so there are 1 flat

2. How do i turn a min11th chord into a major chord? raise the third a half step

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, A#-Ab?  1 whole step major 2nd

4. What is the formula for playing a phrigian scale? play on the 4th scale degree of a major scale

5. What is the difference between a triad and a chord? no difference other than a triad is three note chord and a chord can be any harmonic series of notes


Thanks,

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Offline T-Block

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2006, 09:16:27 AM »
Key E#

E#, Fx, Gx, A#, B#, Cx, Dx, E#

4 sharps
3 double sharps


In the ancient days (waaaaaay back) you'd see enharmonic keys like this, but it was corrected in the 1800s. The only enharmonic keys left are B/Cb, C#/Db, and F#/Gb.

There are, however, 2 E# modal keys  E# Phrygian and E# Locrian, but you'd rarely see E# Locrian, because the tonic is diminished, it is unstable and wants to resolve to F#major.


B3, how u just gonna answer one question like that?  LOL!!!

Anyways, it looks like 3 braves souls have stepped up to take my challenge.  So far there's been some really good answers here.  Is there anyone else who wants to take a shot at it?  The answers will be coming soon!!! ;D
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2006, 08:04:20 PM »
I answered the one that I figured not many people would know.

Offline SupremeSaltine

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2006, 02:17:21 AM »
Hey music theory students, it's challenge time.  As yall probably know, I am very serious about learning music theory, so I have come up with some challenge questions for all of you out there.  This challenge can be taken by anyone no matter what skill level you are at.  Answer as many as you can, and I will be back later with the answers.  Read the questions very carefully before answering, some of them may be a little tricky.  Also, if you can, please show how u came up with the answers:

Easy

1. How many sharps (#) are in the key of F? 

None

2. How do I turn a diminished chord into an augmented?

Raise the 3rd and 5th

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, D-Bb?

Minor sixth

4. What is a scale?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_(music)

5. Why are there no sharps (#) or flats (b) in the key of C?

C what?


Medium

1. How many flats (b) are in the key of B minor?

none

2. How do I turn a minor chord into a major 9th chord?

Add a note a major 3rd below the root of the minor triad

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, Bb-C#?

minor 3rd

4. Which scale degree starts the mixolydian scale?

One.  You might say 5, but if it's a mixolydian scale it is it's own one (tonic).

5. What is the difference between an augmented 4th and a diminished 5th?

The number of scale tones between the two notes. i.e., C D E F# or C D Eb F Gb


Hard

1. How many sharps are there in the key of E#?

*A lot (answer has been modified)

2. How do i turn a min11th chord into a major chord?

Drop the 1-3-5

3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, A#-Ab?

whole step

4. What is the formula for playing a phyrigian scale?

7 or 8 beers and a pretty girl in the front row

5. What is the difference between a triad and a chord?

A triad is specificly 3 notes a chord is undefined as to the number of notes


Good luck everyone!!! ;D

Offline SupremeSaltine

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2006, 02:32:38 AM »
I spelled "phrygian" wrong.

Ooh neat page off of the Wiki link http://www.apassion4jazz.net/scales.html

And I hope no one took offense to my answers.......it was all in fun  ;D

Offline T-Block

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 01:49:40 PM »
here are all the answers for this challenge:

Easy

Quote
1. How many sharps (#) are in the key of F?

The answer is:  none

Explanation

1.  Write out the notes for the key of F:  F  G  A  Bb  C  D  E 

2.  Count how many sharps are present:  none; there is 1 flat, but no sharps


Quote
2. How do I turn a diminished chord into an augmented?

The answer is:  1-b3-b5 turns into 1-3-#5

Explanation

1.  Write the formula for a diminished chord:  1-b3-b5

2.  Write the forumal for an augmented chord:  1-#3-5

3.  Make the diminished chord look like the augmented chord:

1-b3-b5

raise the 3 and the 5 a 1/2 step

1-3-5

raise the 5 one more 1/2 step

1-3-#5


Quote
3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, D-Bb?

The answer is:  minor 6th

Explanation

1.  Write out the general interval:  6th

2.  Apply the rules of the general interval to name it:

2, 3, 6, 7 get the name major

D-B = major 6th

when you lower a major interval, it becomes minor

D-Bb = minor 6th


Quote
4. What is a scale?

The answer is:  a group of notes that start and end on the same note

Explanation

No explanation is needed cuz the answer is the definition of a scale.  This goes for any scale, no matter how many notes are present.


Quote
5. Why are there no sharps (#) or flats (b) in the key of C?

The answer is:  because of the pattern of WS and HS

Explanation

1.  Write out the pattern of forming a major scale:  W-W-H-W-W-W-H

2.  Write out the C major scale:  C (WS) D (WS) E (HS) F (WS) G (WS) A (WS) B (HS) C

C

since we need a whole step, there is only one note we can play

D

since we need a whole step, there is only one note we can play

E

since we need a half step, there is only one note we can play

F

since we need a whole step, there is only one note we can play

G

since we need a whole step, there is only one note we can play

A

since we need a whole step, there is only one note we can play

B

since we need a half step, there is only one note we can play, which brings us back to our root

C


Medium

Quote
1. How many flats (b) are in the key of B minor?

The answer is:  none

Explanation

The relative major of B minor is D major

1.  Write out the notes for the key of D major:  D  E  F#  G  A  B  C# 

2.  Count how many sharps are present:  none; there are 2 sharps, but no flats


Quote
2. How do I turn a minor chord into a major 9th chord?

The answer is:  1-b3-5 turns into 1-3-5-7-9

Explanation

1.  Write the formula for a minor chord:  1-b3-5

2.  Write the formula for a major 9th chord:  1-3-5-7-9

3.  Make the minor chord look like the major 9th chord:

1-b3-5

raise the 3 a 1/2 step

1-3-5

add 7 and 9

1-3-5-7-9


Quote
3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, Bb-C#?

The answer is:  augmented 2nd

Explanation

1.  Write out the general interval:  2nd

2.  Apply the rules of the general interval to name it:

2, 3, 6, and 7 get the name major

Bb-C = major 2nd

when you raise a major interval, it becomes augmented

Bb-C# = augmented 2nd


Quote
4. Which scale degree starts the mixolydian scale?

The answer is:  the 5th scale degree of the major scale

Explanation

No explanation is needed cuz the answer is the definition of playing a mixolydian scale.


Quote
5. What is the difference between an augmented 4th and a diminished 5th?

The answer is:  one is a 4th, the other is a 5th; even though they sound the same, on paper they are completely different

Explanation

Augmented 4ths:  C-F#,  Ab-D,  B-E#

Diminished 5ths:  F#-C,  D-Ab,  E#-B


Hard

Quote
1. How many sharps are there in the key of E#?

The answer is:  4 double sharps

Explanation

1.  Write out the notes for the key of F:  E#  F##  G##  A#  B#  C##  D##  E# 

2.  Count how many sharps are present:  since everything is sharped at least once, we count the 4 double sharps


Quote
2. How do i turn a min11th chord into a major chord?

The answer is:  1-b3-5-7-9-11 turns into 1-3-5

Explanation

1.  Write the formula for a min11t chord chord:  1-b3-5-7-9-11

2.  Write the forumal for a major chord:  1-3-5

3.  Make the min11th chord look like the major chord:

1-b3-5-7-9-11

drop the 7, 9, and 11

1-b3-5

raise the 3 one 1/2 step

1-3-5


Quote
3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, A#-Ab?

The answer is:  doubly diminished unison

Explanation

1.  Write out the general interval:  unison

2.  Apply the rules of the general interval to name it:

unison, 4, and 5 get the name perfect

A#-A# = perfect unison

when you lower a pefect interval, it becomes diminished

A#-A = diminished unison

when you lower a diminished interval, it becomes doubly diminished

A#-Ab = doubly diminished unison


Quote
4. What is the formula for playing a phrigian scale?

The answer is:  H-W-W-W-H-W-W

Explanation

1. Write out the major scale formula:  W-W-H-W-W-W-H

2. Phrigian scale starts with 3rd scale degree:  W-W-* (this is your starting point);  H-W-W-W-H-W-W


Quote
5. What is the difference between a triad and a chord?

The answer is:  a triad is any combination of 3 different notes, while a chord is a specific combination of at least 3 different notes.  Also, a chord can have as many notes as you can play, but a triad only has 3.  Triads may or may not be chords and chords may or may not be triads

Explanation

1.  Triads:  A-D-G,  C#-D#-F,  Eb-A#-C

2.  Chords:  C-E-G,  F-A-C#-E,  Bb-D-F-A-C,  A-C#-E-G-B-D-F
Real musicians play in every key!!!
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Offline T-Block

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2006, 02:00:55 PM »
Hard 3. What interval is represented by these 2 notes, A#-Ab?

The answer is:  doubly diminished unison

Explanation

1.  Write out the general interval:  unison

2.  Apply the rules of the general interval to name it:

unison, 4, and 5 get the name perfect

A#-A# = perfect unison

when you lower a pefect interval, it becomes diminished

A#-A = diminished unison

when you lower a diminished interval, it becomes doubly diminished

A#-Ab = doubly diminished unison


This is either a doubly diminished octave or a doubly augmented unison.

If we think up from the A# we would be in the range of the next octave A#.  A# to A# is a Perfect Octave.
If you lower the upper note by 1/2 step it becomes a Diminished Octave (A# to A nat.) and if you lower the top note of the Diminished Octave by 1/2 step it becomes a Doubly Diminished Octave.

If we are accepting that the A# and the Ab are close together, then it is a Doubly Augmented Unison Down.  A# to A# is a Perfect Unison.  A# down to A nat is an AUGMENTED unison down and A# to Ab is Doubly AUGMENTED down.

So, are you telling me that there is no such thing as a diminished unison?  If you are, then that's something I didn't know.

Hard 2. How do I turn a min11th chord into a regular major chord?


Another way to look at this one is that it is already a Major Chord -- A Major 7th with added 13th
e.g.  G m 11 = G Bb D F A
Bb Maj 13 = Bb D F A (C Eb) G  -- Note, the 11 added to a Maj 7 is usually augmented which would actually be an E nat.

You are right, but u missed my original intent of the question.  What I meant by those types of questions is to manipulate the chord formulas only and not use actual notes.
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Offline rspindy

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2006, 03:11:03 PM »
So, are you telling me that there is no such thing as a diminished unison?  If you are, then that's something I didn't know.

The Perfect Unison (sometimes referred to as Prime) is the smallest interval available.  It is to music what the absolute 0 is in physics or 0 divided by 0 in algebra.  Any more alterations and the interval gets larger, just in the opposite direction.  When diminishing an interval, it is actually made smaller.  And the ratio between the two pitches is smaller.  A diminished 5th is actually smaller than a Perfect 5th.

Let's consider inversions of an interval.  The inversion of a 3rd is a 6th, of a 5th is a 4th, of a 2nd is a 7th, and of a Prime is an Octave.  The inversion of a Major interval is a Minor interval and vice versa.  The inversion of a Perfect interval is another Perfect interval.  The inversion of an Augmented interval is a Diminished interval.  The inversion of the Major 3 C - E ascending is the minor 6 C - E descending.  (E        C   E)  An interval and its inversion add up to 9 and the two together will equal an octave.  The inversion of an Aug. 4th ascending is a Dim 5th descending.

We can have an augmented unison (or prime since unison here is an oxymoron) C - C# ascending which has an inversion of a diminished octave - C - C# descending.

Now, you might point out that there is such a thing as an augmented Octave (C - C# Ascending - 1 octave and 1/2 step).  Once we get over an octave, it is a compound interval (just like a 9th is an octave and a 2nd, or an 11th is an octave and a 4th.  An augmented 9 is an aug. 2nd with one note displaced by an octave.)  In which case we simplify to the simple interval (augmented unison).  Other wise, the inversion of an augmented Octave would be a diminished unison, but that would make it C-B descending.  That would give us 3 pitches to deal with not the two that are in normal intervallic inversions (B C              C#) and they fall outside of the octave.

Although I've had some singers in choirs in the past that have seemed to be singing in diminished unisons, it is theoretically nor acoustically possible.

May God Bless.

Offline 4hisglory

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2006, 02:21:47 AM »
Wow...I missed out on all the fun.
:)

Offline T-Block

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2006, 09:44:47 PM »
Thanks for the explanation rspindy, I really learned something here.

P.S. a simple "no" would have also done the trick as well!!! ;D
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Offline Cherri

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2006, 09:20:21 AM »
Always good to learn something new. Thank you.
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Offline flojo4jc

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Re: Challenge ?'s
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2006, 02:17:12 PM »
Wow, I missed this. This is GOOD.
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