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Author Topic: Vibrato on a sax  (Read 6032 times)

Offline visionmike

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Vibrato on a sax
« on: December 04, 2006, 11:21:01 PM »
What is the proper way to play with a vibrato on the sax? With the mouth? from the belly?
In everything you do, ALWAYS put God 1st!

Offline pdpguy

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2006, 10:59:18 AM »
remember that when you move your mouth, your embechure (sp.?) changes. and that can affect your tuning. if you want that old Vernard Johnson sound, move your mouth. if you want smooth, up-to-date sound, do it from the diaphragm. watch classically trained singers (opera and others) they don't do vibrato with their chins (like today's gospel choirs). they do it from their diaphragm.

please also remember that vibrato should NOT be done ALL the time. it should be used appropriately to ENHANCE playing at the proper time and place in the music. anything done too much will be overkill and come across as cheesy. kinda like only playing the blues scale.

Offline Cherri

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2006, 11:19:44 AM »
remember that when you move your mouth, your embechure (sp.?) changes. and that can affect your tuning. if you want that old Vernard Johnson sound, move your mouth. if you want smooth, up-to-date sound, do it from the diaphragm. watch classically trained singers (opera and others) they don't do vibrato with their chins (like today's gospel choirs). they do it from their diaphragm.

please also remember that vibrato should NOT be done ALL the time. it should be used appropriately to ENHANCE playing at the proper time and place in the music. anything done too much will be overkill and come across as cheesy. kinda like only playing the blues scale.

Thank you. My daughter needs to know this...
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Offline visionmike

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2006, 11:34:42 PM »
remember that when you move your mouth, your embechure (sp.?) changes. and that can affect your tuning. if you want that old Vernard Johnson sound, move your mouth. if you want smooth, up-to-date sound, do it from the diaphragm. watch classically trained singers (opera and others) they don't do vibrato with their chins (like today's gospel choirs). they do it from their diaphragm.

please also remember that vibrato should NOT be done ALL the time. it should be used appropriately to ENHANCE playing at the proper time and place in the music. anything done too much will be overkill and come across as cheesy. kinda like only playing the blues scale.

Thanks pdpguy. That was confirmation. I know HOW to do that, but I couldn't explain it to my son who is learning to play.
In everything you do, ALWAYS put God 1st!

Offline BMA

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2006, 08:23:53 AM »
remember that when you move your mouth, your embechure (sp.?) changes. and that can affect your tuning. if you want that old Vernard Johnson sound, move your mouth. if you want smooth, up-to-date sound, do it from the diaphragm. watch classically trained singers (opera and others) they don't do vibrato with their chins (like today's gospel choirs). they do it from their diaphragm.

please also remember that vibrato should NOT be done ALL the time. it should be used appropriately to ENHANCE playing at the proper time and place in the music. anything done too much will be overkill and come across as cheesy. kinda like only playing the blues scale.

Hello Board of Horn Players,
My Name is Kreston Smith. I am a Grad of the University of Memphis - Music Education Saxophone and the Owner of Bartlett Music Academy. I have been teaching sax since 1993. THe proper way to use vibrato is by raising and lowering  the lower teeth a slightly. This is a craft that takes a LOT of practice. I recommend the book Larry Teal Art of Playing the Saxophone. Larry Teal is classical expert on the saxophone and teaches this method in his book. Larry teal is one of the most repected authors in the saxophone community and is a required reference book for most college students. The embrochure will not change if the muscles of the face form it and not the lower teeth. Most sax players bite into the lower lip for support this incorect. Take a magic marker or a sharpie. Close your teeth. Now place the marker in your mouth and hold it with the upper and lower lips only. You can also purchase a piece of medium soft tubing from the hardware store (like a water hose) and practice squeezing the tube closed. Again you do not use your teeth. They should closed and ONLY the lips are involved in this exercise. Once you have perfected this your embrochure will be set. Afterwards, working on vibrato can be done this way.

Hold long tones (about 4 tied whole notes) while moving teeth up and down about the height of the head of a pen (when I say a slight movement I mean slight). Move the teeth only not the chin. Move in quarter notes at first, then eighth notes, triplets, sixteenth notes. The best vibrato is going to be somewhere between triplet and sixteenth. Some great examples of Vibrato can be found on Billy Joel's "Just the way you are" Phil Woods is the saxophone player, any thing by Kirk Whalum, Paul Desmond, John Coltrane, Miles Davis(Trumpet) and yes regretfullly Kenny G. Kenny G is not my favorite player in the world, but he has got a great vibrato. For classical vibrato, I recommend listening to Donald Sinta, Allen Rippe (University Of Memphis Professor. GO to their website he has some mp3's to listen to), Joesp Wytko, Branford Marsalias and myself. Go to my website at www.bartlettmusicacademy.com.  I have 11  examples of my playing from classical, jazz, gospel, and  r&b. I hope this helps you.

Offline pdpguy

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2006, 11:29:56 AM »
Hello Board of Horn Players,
My Name is Kreston Smith. I am a Grad of the University of Memphis - Music Education Saxophone and the Owner of Bartlett Music Academy. I have been teaching sax since 1993. THe proper way to use vibrato is by raising and lowering  the lower teeth a slightly. This is a craft that takes a LOT of practice. I recommend the book Larry Teal Art of Playing the Saxophone. Larry Teal is classical expert on the saxophone and teaches this method in his book. Larry teal is one of the most repected authors in the saxophone community and is a required reference book for most college students. The embrochure will not change if the muscles of the face form it and not the lower teeth. Most sax players bite into the lower lip for support this incorect. Take a magic marker or a sharpie. Close your teeth. Now place the marker in your mouth and hold it with the upper and lower lips only. You can also purchase a piece of medium soft tubing from the hardware store (like a water hose) and practice squeezing the tube closed. Again you do not use your teeth. They should closed and ONLY the lips are involved in this exercise. Once you have perfected this your embrochure will be set. Afterwards, working on vibrato can be done this way.

Hold long tones (about 4 tied whole notes) while moving teeth up and down about the height of the head of a pen (when I say a slight movement I mean slight). Move the teeth only not the chin. Move in quarter notes at first, then eighth notes, triplets, sixteenth notes. The best vibrato is going to be somewhere between triplet and sixteenth. Some great examples of Vibrato can be found on Billy Joel's "Just the way you are" Phil Woods is the saxophone player, any thing by Kirk Whalum, Paul Desmond, John Coltrane, Miles Davis(Trumpet) and yes regretfullly Kenny G. Kenny G is not my favorite player in the world, but he has got a great vibrato. For classical vibrato, I recommend listening to Donald Sinta, Allen Rippe (University Of Memphis Professor. GO to their website he has some mp3's to listen to), Joesp Wytko, Branford Marsalias and myself. Go to my website at www.bartlettmusicacademy.com.  I have 11  examples of my playing from classical, jazz, gospel, and  r&b. I hope this helps you.

what makes you think we should listen to you JUST BECAUSE YOU WENT TO SOME MUSIC SCHOOL, STUDIED, LEARNED YOUR CRAFT, GOT A DEGREE,  AND OWN YOUR OWN MUSIC ACADEMY?????!!!!!!!! HUH???!!!!!  >:( >:( >:( >:(  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  LOL, chief.

this is good stuff. i'm going to your site right now.

Offline keynote

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2006, 07:25:36 PM »
Yeah... I've never really known anyone to do diaprhagmatic vibrato on saxophone.... it's quite different from a vocalist...

Your embouchure should be another tool for expressing your tone - bends and scoops... all embouchure.... vibrato also - all embouchure.
Granted, good embouchure should be developed and maintained in order to have good vibrato in the first place....

[Tah-yah-yah-yah-yah] is the phrase I think of when I do vibrato - it's just like the leslie switch on an organ (to all my organ players or those who know what I'm talkin' about) It's all about placement - how and when you use it - sometimes slow and subtle, sometimes fast, sometimes not at all.

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ES7Mike

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2006, 12:03:59 PM »
When playing vibrato, remember to keep your corners tight, have a good moist reed and your good to go.

Offline pdpguy

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2006, 03:10:26 PM »
Yeah... I've never really known anyone to do diaprhagmatic vibrato on saxophone.... it's quite different from a vocalist...

Your embouchure should be another tool for expressing your tone - bends and scoops... all embouchure.... vibrato also - all embouchure.
Granted, good embouchure should be developed and maintained in order to have good vibrato in the first place....

[Tah-yah-yah-yah-yah] is the phrase I think of when I do vibrato - it's just like the leslie switch on an organ (to all my organ players or those who know what I'm talkin' about) It's all about placement - how and when you use it - sometimes slow and subtle, sometimes fast, sometimes not at all.

- keynote

I wasn't going to respond to this, but. . . I don't do vibrato like that. I know some professional sax players who can play, who don't do vibrato witht heir mouths. If it sounded bad I wouldn't have put it on here. But it's worked for me for years. I've done many events including recordings and concerts and I have yet to hear anyone tell me that my vibrato sounds unnatural.

And as far as being different from a vocalist, is that because horn players and singers use air from different parts of their bodies?

Offline keynote

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2006, 12:20:02 AM »
if you want that old Vernard Johnson sound, move your mouth. if you want smooth, up-to-date sound, do it from the diaphragm.



That's all I was responding to b/c I disagree.... bigtime. I don't know, but I'd be pretty certain that Donald Hayes, Kirk Whalum, Mike Phillips, Paul Desmond, Bird, Coltrane, Cannonball, heck... why not - even Kenny G... don't do diaprhagmatic vibrato.... and I don't either.

I'm not saying it's bad or sounds unnatural tho b/c like I said - I haven't heard guys do it (and known it)

Jaw vibrato is simple to do and easy to control - and sounds great.

It's more about how you use it than where you do it from.

It's different from vocalists, b/c you're not singing words with your mouth when you're playing. Good vocalists and good horn players breathe the same way.

When I sing, I use diaphragmatic vibrato, when I play sax, I use my jaw. - that's just me.... do whatever works for you.
Take care and be blessed!  Ps 16

Offline Jbroad572

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2006, 02:09:41 AM »
Yea, the proper way to do vibrato is using your jaw, that's what the pros of old and most do today and what is taught, but the good thing is this....
If it isn't broken then don't fix it. I'll continue using my mouth for vibrato and you use your diaphragm and everyone's happy. :)

Offline vkeys314

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2007, 09:00:32 PM »
i have actually used both methods of virbrato on the sax.... the diaphragmatic vibrato is most difficult because it requires a lot of control in doing it so that you dont loose pitch and get out of key... the jaw vibrato is most common, easiest to master and (in my opinion) best sounding....though if you do them right you will not notice a difference... just be careful whichever one you are using and practice it before you do it in public... lol....
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Offline pdpguy

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2007, 12:20:41 PM »
Yea, the proper way to do vibrato is using your jaw, that's what the pros of old and most do today and what is taught, but the good thing is this....
If it isn't broken then don't fix it. I'll continue using my mouth for vibrato and you use your diaphragm and everyone's happy. :)


NO!!! I'M NOT HAPPY!!!!!! NOT UNTIL YOU ALL CHANGE AND DO THINGS MY WAY!!!!!!!!! >:( >:(  ;D ;D

Just kidding.

i have actually used both methods of virbrato on the sax.... the diaphragmatic vibrato is most difficult because it requires a lot of control in doing it so that you dont loose pitch and get out of key... the jaw vibrato is most common, easiest to master and (in my opinion) best sounding....though if you do them right you will not notice a difference... just be careful whichever one you are using and practice it before you do it in public... lol....

That's really most important is what is most effective for the individual and perfecting that.

Offline lisacrum

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2007, 07:46:32 PM »
I'd have to say, learn to master vibrato, dynamic, expression and intonation before you do anything else on that sax.  I've heard a lot of folks who were fluent with their fingerings but comparatively weaker in these other areas.  So practice it over and over until you're as smooth as peanut butter pie.  Out of the two, your smoothness will be much more appreciated by your listeners than your fanciness!  A common mistake of beginners is that they want to skip straight to the "curliques."  That stuff comes with time, but it's not foundational to becoming a great sax player.  You have to get your sound down first.

I've never really given any thought to where my own vibrato comes from (I think a little of both actually).  Get good at it, and like another post suggested, get a feel for when to turn it off and on.  Listen to the great ones play, guys like Grover Washington Jr., Kirk Whalum, and even grab up your sax and play along with them.  It's most effective when you use it as an accent.  Imagine you're an organ, and the vibrato is your "leslie!"  Learning to vary the speed and intensity of your vibrato is a real hallmark of your skill. 

Offline lisacrum

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Re: Vibrato on a sax
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2007, 07:50:23 PM »
Of course, my advice is to a beginner and not you, Mike!  You're the professional and I'm, at best, semi-professional!  I'll learn to read the profile information before I respond to a question!  LOL ;D ;D ;D

Do they have an emoticon with egg on its face? ?/?
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