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Author Topic: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED  (Read 7746 times)

Offline laj528

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2007, 01:06:50 PM »
Praise him Bro. Gospaul,

From pastor to pastor- Thanks for words excellently said.

It takes the anointing to break the yoke. Ministry is a called and anointed assignment of and by God for God.

For some reason the church has removed the call of ministry from the music. Okay for the obvious reasons of the great appeal that music provides. Folks will ask how good your choir and music are before they ask about how anointed the preaching is.

With this said entertainment has replaced anointing in many of our churches. Thus the atmosphere for worshiping the creature rather than the Creator is established. This is why it is so difficult for some believers to tell the difference between the two (anointing or entertainment) and the effect is natural not supernatural.

Ironically entertainment draws numbers and numbers equal dollars.  Dollars equal the ability to build and provide programs or services to the community.  The inherent problem with this is that we begin to rely on carnal means to replicate the works of God. If this trend is allowed to persist the anointing may be totally replaced by skill, ability and sheer entertainment.

IMHO

Stay blessed
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Heb12:14)

Offline Torch7

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2007, 01:22:02 PM »
I think the operative word Mr. DJ in your post is, "Calls themselves Saved", there should be evidence or fruit of salvation.  Again, I am not saying I pass judgement on
a persons salvation, but fruit would have to be present.

If God has blessed them with the gift of music who are we to decide whether they play or not

I pose another question then, would you allow a stripper, to praise dance?

There is a difference in performance and ministry.  Think it not strange that all the Ministers of Music in the Temple were levitical priests.  Dare I open the can of worms
that WORSHIP is not acceptable, if not offered through Jesus.  And yes, a born again believer can offer unsatisfactory praise.

Offline Torch7

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2007, 01:31:01 PM »
With this said entertainment has replaced anointing in many of our churches. Thus the atmosphere for worshiping the creature rather than the Creator is established. This is why it is so difficult for some believers to tell the difference between the two (anointing or entertainment) and the effect is natural not supernatural.

Well said, sir.

Recently we were on the 6th Street in Austin, Texas; with the soul purpose to preach the Gospel.  I was amazed that about 90% of the people we spoke to, were "SAVED"  Mind you most were drunk, and or on a mission, that didn't reflect holiness.  They were unashamed to tell what Church they attended, and who their Senior Pastor was.  I would have been utterly embarassed.  Then when posed with Questions like, "Are you serving Jesus, tonight".  Some said no, while others still maintained that they were justified in being in this environment.  Austin, boast in being the LIVE MUSIC Capital of the World.  I could have walked in any of those Bars, and grabbed, a musician, that could have came and turned a CHURCH out the next morning.

Alot can be said for HOLINESS, and that standard has been dropped, all week long, to only try and muster up much excitement come Sunday Morning. 

Offline Furious Styles

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2007, 02:27:30 PM »
I agree with the Pastors. Some great points were made in the subject.
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Offline cordney

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2007, 03:06:32 PM »
Mr. DJ and myself(related), started playing for our church(at that time) at a early age(15).  I can only speak for myself but at that age being saved was the last thing on my mind but I enjoyed playing every Sunday.  As I got older and joined the military when someone asked me to play for their church I would tell them "NO" because I knew I wasn't living right and at that time in my life I wasn't trying to live right.  Now that I'm a lil' older and tryin to get my house in order and doing my best to live right before him, I see no problem with myself playing at church.   
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Offline jeremyr

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2007, 03:07:38 PM »
I was not demeed saved until I was filled with the HolySpirit

could you explain this process a little more.  We don't use this phraising in my church, so I would like to know how the church knows  when someone is  filled with the HolySpiri.
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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2007, 03:27:18 PM »
One of the ways I remember hearing is by their fruits....how they act, talk or carry themselves but it's a little more than that I will look it up and find out more for you.

Offline Torch7

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2007, 03:41:25 PM »
I would assume, it is a difficult task, to tell if a person has the Spirit of God or not.  I say i assume because I would never attempt to do so.

Some might sight David, being a man after God's heart, yet... look at some of the stuff he did.  But don't be negligent, in seeing how God dealt
with David in various situations, He wasn't able to build God's temple.

Some might sight, there are things that come along with Salvation, while this is true, they can be imitated and duplicated in public, as well as private.
I know some folks who aren't Christian but are patient, kind, caring, loving etc...

My fundamental position is I believe most saints quarell over Justification, when Sanctification is where God is trying to get us.

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2007, 04:17:34 PM »
I would assume, it is a difficult task, to tell if a person has the Spirit of God or not.  I say i assume because I would never attempt to do so.

Some might sight David, being a man after God's heart, yet... look at some of the stuff he did.  But don't be negligent, in seeing how God dealt
with David in various situations, He wasn't able to build God's temple.

Some might sight, there are things that come along with Salvation, while this is true, they can be imitated and duplicated in public, as well as private.
I know some folks who aren't Christian but are patient, kind, caring, loving etc...

My fundamental position is I believe most saints quarell over Justification, when Sanctification is where God is trying to get us.

yeah that's what i was kind of thinking.  I've heard the term used before and I kind of figured that it was leading towards the fruits they bear, but at the same time you ahve some people that act one way around the church folks and another as soon as they step out of the church (EVERYONE has seen this). 

I think that ti's wrong for the chruch or anyone to say when someone is "filled with the holy spirit" or isn't. 
only god can judge.

As for me, I would be weary of letting someone not of believe helping usher in the spirit.  For all you know they might usher in a spirit that you don't want up in the church.  nothing wrong with them coming, but music is powerful and definately more then just notes. It's your attitude and your beliefs, your convictions and your faith touching others as you play and if you aint right then the message aint gonna be right.
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline Torch7

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2007, 04:51:12 PM »
For all you know they might usher in a spirit that you don't want up in the church.  nothing wrong with them coming, but music is powerful and definately more then just notes. It's your attitude and your beliefs, your convictions and your faith touching others as you play and if you aint right then the message aint gonna be right.

So true!

Offline mr.dj

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2007, 05:47:50 PM »
could you explain this process a little more.  We don't use this phraising in my church, so I would like to know how the church knows  when someone is  filled with the HolySpiri.

The evidence of speaking in tongues.
"Even when you're justified, be dignified."  Cornel West

Offline mr.dj

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2007, 05:52:53 PM »
Mr. DJ and myself(related), started playing for our church(at that time) at a early age(15).  I can only speak for myself but at that age being saved was the last thing on my mind but I enjoyed playing every Sunday.  As I got older and joined the military when someone asked me to play for their church I would tell them "NO" because I knew I wasn't living right and at that time in my life I wasn't trying to live right.  Now that I'm a lil' older and tryin to get my house in order and doing my best to live right before him, I see no problem with myself playing at church.   

If my cuz and I were under the leadership that you couldn't play until your saved, I feel that we would have never started to play simply b/c we would not have got the opportunity.   

"Even when you're justified, be dignified."  Cornel West

Offline mr.dj

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2007, 06:03:05 PM »
Torch7
You asked a question about the stripper ( I thought was very funny), but I pose this question what about the youth.  Do you stop them from singing on sunday?  What about the little one that has the gift to play, do you sit them down and say no you can't play until you get saved? 

I'm not trying to be hard up on the subject but if I had been done like this I don't believe I would be the Minister I am today. 
"Even when you're justified, be dignified."  Cornel West

Offline LowBass

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2007, 06:16:32 PM »
could you explain this process a little more.  We don't use this phraising in my church, so I would like to know how the church knows  when someone is  filled with the HolySpiri.
One of our main goals as Christians are to pull or draw the unsave ones towards God.We can't do that if we hang and try to pull people toward God,who's already save.

Having someone play for your church who's not save,will be good. Because now you have someone who's not save to help find God.
That's one of our goals and Christians,the Holy Sprrit will do the rest.

Way to help pull them toward God is this.

We should Pray before we play anything,always. Make  rule each member will lead a prayer,let this person Lead some prayers or teach them to lead prayers.
The Holy Spirit will do the rest. And the Angels will dance in the streets. The devil want us to push or lock out the ones he have fathered.

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2007, 07:24:21 PM »
The evidence of speaking in tongues.

you might not agree with me and will probably get mad and fight with me on this for a while, but i believe that this thing called speaking in tongues as it is commonly known in the "black" church is not an edvidence of the holy spirit. 

Now i'm not saying that anyone is going to hell  or is lost for "speaking in tongues" as we say it now, but i think that people have it mixed up a bit.

There IS such a thing as the gift of speaking in tongues there is absolutely no doubt about that, but right after that scripture in the bible it says that there is someone that can interprit that as well.  Like when the disciples went out and preached to the nations.  They were speaking the message, and each differnt nation heard that message in their own native language There's no interpretation to what people are doing now-a-days.   Albeit you could set a standard that such and such means such and such and you've thus created a language, but there's no such thing right now. 

I could continue, but this probably isn't the right place to go to deap into it.

If you want to chat hit me up on IM or pm or whatever.


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Offline Torch7

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2007, 07:48:13 PM »
Great question...  Children are santified by a believing parent.  However, if any teens, in my ministry are not living right, I disuade them from participation in service, that would consist of them serving.  Day Care, Choir, Instruments, etc.  They also have to attend and participate in Teen services.

To speak on the Evidence being speaking in tongues, did you know there are tribes in Africa, and South America, that are not Christian yet speak in tongues during Christian activities.  I said this to say... Tongues can be imitated.

Now, I wholeheartedly believe in "Speaking in Tongues" is a gift of the Spirit that requires, interpretation like jeremyr said..  The phenom is God speaking through a vessel in a unknown tongue, that must be interpreted so the body of Christ can be edified.

Their are also two other forms of tongues according to the Bible.  There is "Glossa" which is God giving a person the ability to speak another language that they had not prior spoken.  Ofcourse in this instance there is no interpretation necessary.  That's like if I got off a plane in Russia, and began to preach fluent Russian.

Then there is what is called "Praying in Tongues"  Paul, says in this instance the believer is speaking mysteries to God.  It is the believers spirit, praying to God, and edifying the believer.  The believer is making utterances, even they don't understand.

Offline laj528

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2007, 07:53:27 PM »
I believe that the youth issue can be summed up like this:

When I was a child , I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 1 Cor 13:11

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Prov 22:6

It is the responsibility of the saved parent to train the children so that they can be saved. This is not limited to just bible study but the workings of the church as well as music and song.

However, as in most facets of life we do not hold the child responsible but the parent. That is until the child is old enough to assume said responsibility.

So I would say let them play and sing because we know that they are but innocent children.

This is totally different some one who is working in the ministry but has not met the savior that they are to minister for.  Remember the anointing comes from the anointed one Christ.

Please keep in mind that music in church is not for the pleasure of the listener’s ear. (That’s Entertainment)
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Heb12:14)

Offline Torch7

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2007, 07:59:08 PM »
LowBass

That's great in theory... but the dividing line in this post, is "How a person views the musicians position"

One side is saying there is no harm in playing music.  The Other side saying, its more than just playing music, it is ministering to God, and his people.  If the latter is true, then you can see why some might have an issue with it.  If the former is true, then why not let non-christians Preach, Teach, Count the Offering, be a Deacon board, Usher, and Prophecy.  The Bible speaks of the qualifications to be a deacon, and a Bishop.  It doesn't spell out in so certain terms other positions, like Drummer, Bass Guitarist, Hammond player, even if it did, we would proably still be having this discussion.  :-\

Offline laj528

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2007, 08:04:05 PM »
Torch7 well said…..

I am somewhat concerned that this topic is starting to morph in to a never ending theological debate but If you don’t mind I will add just a little more
 Wow the speaking in tongues piece as evidence of the Holy Ghost is a totally different thing form what Paul was speaking on in Corinthians. The gift of tongues was not given on the day of Pentecost the gift of the Holy Ghost was. Now with that in mind it takes the Holy Ghost for the gifts “of the spirit” to be in place. 
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Heb12:14)

Offline Torch7

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Re: Musicians...SAVED or NOT SAVED
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2007, 08:05:48 PM »
Sorry thought I provided scripture about the kids... but laj528 is right.

Take a look at 1 Corinthians 7:14 -- The context is talking about a unbelieving spouse santified by a believing spouse.
 
"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
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