LearnGospelMusic.com Community

Please login or register.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: What do you think?  (Read 385 times)

churchyreal

  • Guest
What do you think?
« on: January 27, 2007, 10:43:08 AM »
This is another note I wrote on facebook. Once again, if any of you have facebook, let me know and I'll facebook you.

Signs Church Renewal is Needed TODAY!!!-Part 1!

1:25pm Wednesday, Nov 1, 2006

. When people enjoy just sitting in Church rather than fully participating with the ministry.
2. When there are more arrogant folk in the church than outside the church.
3. When people get in argument over some of the most petty issues around (clothes, carpets, money, etc.)
4. When people in the church don't speak to one another, yet get up in church and act like they are the most saved people around.
5. When "Holier than thou" is ok and not, "I'm a sinner saved by grace."
6. When most sermons in church focus on self (my blessing, my breakthrough, my deliverance, etc.) and not on how to be a better Christian.
7. When there are more jokes about the church than there are about the clubs in Winston-Salem, NC.
8. When Church hurt becomes the worst hurt seen.
9. When people in church have attitudes that can turn someone away from the church as a whole.
10. When a non-saved drunkard has more compassion for someone than an-every Sunday, suppose to be Christian.
11. When the church looks at somebody's past in determining how much they will help versus looking to Christ and how Christ wipes the past away.
12. When the church looks down on the homeless, poverty-striken, brokenhearted, and wounded.
13.When the focus of an African-American service is not the word of God, but the music and how well it is played.
14. When officers of the church will go around and spread church news (and gossip) to people who are not even members of the church, and probably not saved.
15. When the church gives the Pastor more praise than they do God.
16. When the Deacons feel like they are the greatest things walking in the church.
17. When church becomes a dressing contest.
18. When people go around and sing "The Jesus in me, loves the Jesus in You" song and don't even love.
19. When people are more concerned about what time service ends than if people are getting delivered and set free.
20. When going to your home church becomes a problem.
21. When churches are splitting up like crazy over some of the most dumbest things.
22. When the Pastor beats people out of money (Money Lines, seed offerings, etc.)
23. When Sunday Morning is still the most segregated day of the week.
24. When drama is becoming a very big word in the church vocabulary.


*I believe it's time for someone to speak up for getting the church as a whole back on the right path. There is absolutely too much mess in the church and it is causing people to forsake the church, much less Jesus Christ. Let's get it together cause it's really making no sense whatsoever.

Offline KevinP

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 142
  • Gender: Male
  • Yep, that's me.

Re: What do you think?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2007, 03:30:04 AM »
What do I think? Well, you did ask....

Quote
1. When people enjoy just sitting in Church rather than fully participating with the ministry.
People participate in different ways. Not everybody needs to show outward signs. If they 'enjoy just sitting in church,' that's a lot better than not enjoying it, or not going at all.

Quote
2. When there are more arrogant folk in the church than outside the church.
My first thought would be 'Man, you're in one BIG church.'
And my second thought would be 'Praise God they're in the church.'

Quote
3. When people get in argument over some of the most petty issues around (clothes, carpets, money, etc.)
Happens all the time, nothing to do with church really. I don't like it, but there are worse problems.

Quote
4. When people in the church don't speak to one another, yet get up in church and act like they are the most saved people around.
Yeah, it's not good not to speak to another, but it shouldn't be a reflection on how saved they are. Some people are shy, some people are not 'socially intelligent' (I don't mean that insultingly because socialising isn't my strongest suit either) and sometimes the church itself or the pastor makes a cold atmosphere (hopefully that's very rare though). It also differs from denomination to denomination and from culture to culture.

Quote
5. When "Holier than thou" is ok and not, "I'm a sinner saved by grace."
I think you worry too much about the other congregants.

Quote
6. When most sermons in church focus on self (my blessing, my breakthrough, my deliverance, etc.) and not on how to be a better Christian.
Different pastors have different styles, and different church-goers have different needs. When you were growing up, you must have had some teachers whose style didn't mesh with yours, but it doesn't mean they were bad teachers. At least with church you usually have a choice to find another one better suited for you. Personally, I could listen to someone talk about the blessings in his life and learn to recognise the blessings in my own. In fact, I'd prefer that to a list of 'what to do's. If the pastor gave a 'how to be a better Christian' sermon all the time, every time he made a mistake I would think, 'hypocrite!' I'll take a pastor who's continually discovering God in his life any day over one who already knows everything about Him.

Quote
7. When there are more jokes about the church than there are about the clubs in Winston-Salem, NC.
Well, it's not the people who don't go to church who give church-goers a bad name.

Quote
8. When Church hurt becomes the worst hurt seen.
Not sure I understand what you mean exactly. Every single person makes mistakes. Put a bunch of us together and watch them multiply.

Quote
9. When people in church have attitudes that can turn someone away from the church as a whole.
Again, you worry too much about them. If you focus on the faults of other church-goers, that you're guilty of the holier-than-thou attitude you condemned in #5.

Quote
10. When a non-saved drunkard has more compassion for someone than an-every Sunday, suppose to be Christian.
Praise be the drunkard. Learn from him. Tell others about his compassion.

Quote
11. When the church looks at somebody's past in determining how much they will help versus looking to Christ and how Christ wipes the past away.
Yeah, that may be wrong. But sometimes the church does have to pick and choose who it helps. Maybe someone's past isn't the best criteria, but Christ is perfect. All the church can do is imitate Him imperfectly.

Quote
12. When the church looks down on the homeless, poverty-striken, brokenhearted, and wounded.
The church prays for them, though you're right that that's not enough.

Quote
13.When the focus of an African-American service is not the word of God, but the music and how well it is played.
Well I'm not African-American, but somehow I doubt people go to church entirely for the music and not for anything else. But as a church musician, if the music kept them coming back and maybe bringing their friends, doesn't that mean I've done my job? I've helped someone find a church they want to call home. The rest is up to the pastor and God and whatever example I can set.

Quote
14. When officers of the church will go around and spread church news (and gossip) to people who are not even members of the church, and probably not saved.
Whether they're saved or not doesn't matter one bit. The church isn't a club for the saved. But otherwise, yes, that is wrong. We once had a treasurer who went around telling the other congregants how much (or rather how little) so-and-so gave. Guess what. We got a new treasurer. You shouldn't expect your officers to be perfect, but there are some limits you should reasonably expect.

Quote
15. When the church gives the Pastor more praise than they do God.
Seriously, how far is it to the next church?

Quote
16. When the Deacons feel like they are the greatest things walking in the church.
I'm sure they good traits. Don't obsess over their faults that you turn a blind eye to them.

Quote
17. When church becomes a dressing contest.
Okay, you got me here. I'm Catholic. I see people in jeans and t-shirts and think nothing of it.

Quote
18. When people go around and sing "The Jesus in me, loves the Jesus in You" song and don't even love.
I'll bet they love more than you give them credit for.

Quote
19. When people are more concerned about what time service ends than if people are getting delivered and set free.
We have human bodies. Our stomachs get empty and growl, our bottoms get tired of sitting on pews. It happens.

Quote
20. When going to your home church becomes a problem.
It shouldn't be. Most of us have many choices of which church to attend. I used to drive 20 miles to go church because the closer one did not speak to me.

Quote
21. When churches are splitting up like crazy over some of the most dumbest things.
In principle I agree with you, but maybe they split into communities that serve the congregants' needs better.

Quote
22. When the Pastor beats people out of money (Money Lines, seed offerings, etc.)
Churches need money, and some people need persuading.

Quote
23. When Sunday Morning is still the most segregated day of the week.
When I was nine, my father moved us to a new neighbourhood because a couple black families had moved in. My parents sent me to a Catholic that taught me it was wrong, but it still happened. And the church we left behind is the same one I drove 20 miles to when I was old enough to drive. I've seen it grow from a predominantly white parish to a predominantly black one. To a large extent, parishes reflect their neighbourhoods. As long as there are black neighbourhoods and white ones, churches will largely follow. The more integrated the neighbourhood, the more integrated the church. Why neighbourhoods change and why so many people want to live with 'like-minded' people is closer to the problem; the churches are just the effect. I'm willing to bet this board is predominantly black, though I wouldn't call it 'segregated.' Is it really a problem?

Quote
24. When drama is becoming a very big word in the church vocabulary.
Actually, I've never noticed it.
I am too alone in the world, and not alone enough to make every minute holy.
-- Rilke --

Offline sjonathan02

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 41575
  • Gender: Male
  • My heart

Re: What do you think?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 06:59:16 AM »
What do I think? Well, you did ask....
People participate in different ways. Not everybody needs to show outward signs. If they 'enjoy just sitting in church,' that's a lot better than not enjoying it, or not going at all.
My first thought would be 'Man, you're in one BIG church.'
And my second thought would be 'Praise God they're in the church.'
Happens all the time, nothing to do with church really. I don't like it, but there are worse problems.
Yeah, it's not good not to speak to another, but it shouldn't be a reflection on how saved they are. Some people are shy, some people are not 'socially intelligent' (I don't mean that insultingly because socialising isn't my strongest suit either) and sometimes the church itself or the pastor makes a cold atmosphere (hopefully that's very rare though). It also differs from denomination to denomination and from culture to culture.
I think you worry too much about the other congregants.
Different pastors have different styles, and different church-goers have different needs. When you were growing up, you must have had some teachers whose style didn't mesh with yours, but it doesn't mean they were bad teachers. At least with church you usually have a choice to find another one better suited for you. Personally, I could listen to someone talk about the blessings in his life and learn to recognise the blessings in my own. In fact, I'd prefer that to a list of 'what to do's. If the pastor gave a 'how to be a better Christian' sermon all the time, every time he made a mistake I would think, 'hypocrite!' I'll take a pastor who's continually discovering God in his life any day over one who already knows everything about Him.
Well, it's not the people who don't go to church who give church-goers a bad name.
Not sure I understand what you mean exactly. Every single person makes mistakes. Put a bunch of us together and watch them multiply.
Again, you worry too much about them. If you focus on the faults of other church-goers, that you're guilty of the holier-than-thou attitude you condemned in #5.
Praise be the drunkard. Learn from him. Tell others about his compassion.
Yeah, that may be wrong. But sometimes the church does have to pick and choose who it helps. Maybe someone's past isn't the best criteria, but Christ is perfect. All the church can do is imitate Him imperfectly.
The church prays for them, though you're right that that's not enough.
Well I'm not African-American, but somehow I doubt people go to church entirely for the music and not for anything else. But as a church musician, if the music kept them coming back and maybe bringing their friends, doesn't that mean I've done my job? I've helped someone find a church they want to call home. The rest is up to the pastor and God and whatever example I can set.
Whether they're saved or not doesn't matter one bit. The church isn't a club for the saved. But otherwise, yes, that is wrong. We once had a treasurer who went around telling the other congregants how much (or rather how little) so-and-so gave. Guess what. We got a new treasurer. You shouldn't expect your officers to be perfect, but there are some limits you should reasonably expect.
Seriously, how far is it to the next church?
I'm sure they good traits. Don't obsess over their faults that you turn a blind eye to them.
Okay, you got me here. I'm Catholic. I see people in jeans and t-shirts and think nothing of it.
I'll bet they love more than you give them credit for.
We have human bodies. Our stomachs get empty and growl, our bottoms get tired of sitting on pews. It happens.
It shouldn't be. Most of us have many choices of which church to attend. I used to drive 20 miles to go church because the closer one did not speak to me.
In principle I agree with you, but maybe they split into communities that serve the congregants' needs better.
Churches need money, and some people need persuading.
When I was nine, my father moved us to a new neighbourhood because a couple black families had moved in. My parents sent me to a Catholic that taught me it was wrong, but it still happened. And the church we left behind is the same one I drove 20 miles to when I was old enough to drive. I've seen it grow from a predominantly white parish to a predominantly black one. To a large extent, parishes reflect their neighbourhoods. As long as there are black neighbourhoods and white ones, churches will largely follow. The more integrated the neighbourhood, the more integrated the church. Why neighbourhoods change and why so many people want to live with 'like-minded' people is closer to the problem; the churches are just the effect. I'm willing to bet this board is predominantly black, though I wouldn't call it 'segregated.' Is it really a problem?
Actually, I've never noticed it.




Yes, you are going to fit in nicely around here. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline saxandkeys

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1555
  • Gender: Male
  • "You ain't gotta go nowhere...I gotchu!"

Re: What do you think?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 07:34:53 AM »
Yea...I'm feeling you on #6...and #15!
I'd rather be imperfectly inspired, than to be perfectly entertained...

Offline vtguy84

  • LGM Royalty
  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11830
  • Gender: Male
    • Get Covered 4 Life

Re: What do you think?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 08:02:26 AM »
What do I think? Well, you did ask....
People participate in different ways. Not everybody needs to show outward signs. If they 'enjoy just sitting in church,' that's a lot better than not enjoying it, or not going at all.
My first thought would be 'Man, you're in one BIG church.'
And my second thought would be 'Praise God they're in the church.'
Happens all the time, nothing to do with church really. I don't like it, but there are worse problems.
Yeah, it's not good not to speak to another, but it shouldn't be a reflection on how saved they are. Some people are shy, some people are not 'socially intelligent' (I don't mean that insultingly because socialising isn't my strongest suit either) and sometimes the church itself or the pastor makes a cold atmosphere (hopefully that's very rare though). It also differs from denomination to denomination and from culture to culture.
I think you worry too much about the other congregants.
Different pastors have different styles, and different church-goers have different needs. When you were growing up, you must have had some teachers whose style didn't mesh with yours, but it doesn't mean they were bad teachers. At least with church you usually have a choice to find another one better suited for you. Personally, I could listen to someone talk about the blessings in his life and learn to recognise the blessings in my own. In fact, I'd prefer that to a list of 'what to do's. If the pastor gave a 'how to be a better Christian' sermon all the time, every time he made a mistake I would think, 'hypocrite!' I'll take a pastor who's continually discovering God in his life any day over one who already knows everything about Him.
Well, it's not the people who don't go to church who give church-goers a bad name.
Not sure I understand what you mean exactly. Every single person makes mistakes. Put a bunch of us together and watch them multiply.
Again, you worry too much about them. If you focus on the faults of other church-goers, that you're guilty of the holier-than-thou attitude you condemned in #5.
Praise be the drunkard. Learn from him. Tell others about his compassion.
Yeah, that may be wrong. But sometimes the church does have to pick and choose who it helps. Maybe someone's past isn't the best criteria, but Christ is perfect. All the church can do is imitate Him imperfectly.
The church prays for them, though you're right that that's not enough.
Well I'm not African-American, but somehow I doubt people go to church entirely for the music and not for anything else. But as a church musician, if the music kept them coming back and maybe bringing their friends, doesn't that mean I've done my job? I've helped someone find a church they want to call home. The rest is up to the pastor and God and whatever example I can set.
Whether they're saved or not doesn't matter one bit. The church isn't a club for the saved. But otherwise, yes, that is wrong. We once had a treasurer who went around telling the other congregants how much (or rather how little) so-and-so gave. Guess what. We got a new treasurer. You shouldn't expect your officers to be perfect, but there are some limits you should reasonably expect.
Seriously, how far is it to the next church?
I'm sure they good traits. Don't obsess over their faults that you turn a blind eye to them.
Okay, you got me here. I'm Catholic. I see people in jeans and t-shirts and think nothing of it.
I'll bet they love more than you give them credit for.
We have human bodies. Our stomachs get empty and growl, our bottoms get tired of sitting on pews. It happens.
It shouldn't be. Most of us have many choices of which church to attend. I used to drive 20 miles to go church because the closer one did not speak to me.
In principle I agree with you, but maybe they split into communities that serve the congregants' needs better.
Churches need money, and some people need persuading.
When I was nine, my father moved us to a new neighbourhood because a couple black families had moved in. My parents sent me to a Catholic that taught me it was wrong, but it still happened. And the church we left behind is the same one I drove 20 miles to when I was old enough to drive. I've seen it grow from a predominantly white parish to a predominantly black one. To a large extent, parishes reflect their neighbourhoods. As long as there are black neighbourhoods and white ones, churches will largely follow. The more integrated the neighbourhood, the more integrated the church. Why neighbourhoods change and why so many people want to live with 'like-minded' people is closer to the problem; the churches are just the effect. I'm willing to bet this board is predominantly black, though I wouldn't call it 'segregated.' Is it really a problem?
Actually, I've never noticed it.


Excellent! 
www.GetCovered4Life.com (Mortgage Protection, Final Expense, Tax Free Retirement)

Offline KevinP

  • LGM Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 142
  • Gender: Male
  • Yep, that's me.

Re: What do you think?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2007, 04:17:35 PM »
Thanks, everyone. I appreciate how welcomed everyone makes me feel.
I am too alone in the world, and not alone enough to make every minute holy.
-- Rilke --
Pages: [1]   Go Up