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Author Topic: Secular Music  (Read 16196 times)

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2007, 08:30:53 AM »
Performing and listening music are 2 different things... will i perform a secular song that will cause people to sin no.  Will i play a secular song at a wedding or for a romantic evening for a married couple. YES! 

Will i listen to a secular song, to learn riffs, progressions, grooves and apply it to my own style of music.  Yes.

It's kind of like driving a car, you can use a car to do illegal things or you can use it for a better use of something.  Music is the same way, you get riffs, learn new stuff and apply it to something useful or to your own style, or what kirk does, turn something bad to good... for me i listen to all types of music, for grooving to and to learn riffs chord changes, chord progression and etc... It's all music theory, what makes the song differ is the words...

Offline jmain

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2007, 02:16:22 PM »
I appreciate this candid discussion on this topic.  This is something that has resurfaced lately in my life.

See, I was saved at a young age, but went astray and played all kinds of secular music in all kinds of places.  When I left the (Baptist) church the music was boring.  Flash forward 20 years later (about 3 years ago) when I finally shut up long enought to hear the Lord calling me back home.  I thought I was going to have to give up bass - especially the kind of bass I love. 

But that didn't happen.  My guitar playing partner who played most of these places with me is now playing guitar in church.  We live in different cities, but he turned me onto a lot of what is currently happening, which lead the way for me to explore more of what was out there.  The Lord was faithful and I've been playing in regular services, musical presentations, and with Celebrate Recovery for about 2 years now.

I say all that, to say that I can see this from different points of view.  I incorporate the feel of some of the secular stuff I have played, but usually not riffs verbatim.  In the context of what Paul was saying in the NT, I can't eat all that "meat" - not right now.  Like someone said earlier, music can take me back to those times when I was in the wrong place.  Now if you've never been there, it might be okay.  Just stand firm, lest you fall.

This weekend we played some secular songs interspersed with christian tunes, with some of the secular songs having some of the words changed.  It was cool and a great opportunity b/c they want to do some weddings and other events.  I'm with you dfwkeys regarding playing secular music for the right reasons.  But for me personally, it gets cloudy when it ain't for the bride and groom but for the single folks getting drunk and hitting on each other.  That's just me eating my veggies and not trying to call you (or anybody else) out. 

All I know, is what I think I know and where I've been, and I can't speak for others.  But I do feel like is using what has happened in my life to glorify Him.  Now, I'm not saying that it has to be done this way - I wish I could say I walked with the Lord for those last 20 years b/c that is a better testimony than mine.  We should all listen to wise counsel and the small, still voice in our hearts.

Praise God for the awesome music that fills His church and sings glory to His name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eph 5:15-20

Offline DESQ

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #42 on: April 09, 2007, 04:25:21 PM »
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.  I Thess. 5:13

I promise this is the only scripture I will quote.   ;D ;D.  Music is one of the most important weapons in the devil's arsenal.  He has fooled us into thinking that it is not harmful so that we will continue to allow negative influences into our very spirits.  Sometimes, GOD used only music as a weapon to destroy Israel's enemies.  OUR own ARMY uses music to subsconciously defeat our enemies and unnerve them.  Corporations spend BILLIONS of dollars to create jingles for you to buy their product.  The movie industry spends BILLIONS of dollars to evoke emotions for various scenes in a movie.  Why? That's b/c music can change your very emotion and can not be tuned out. 

Also, music carries spirits.  YES I said it.  There is a spiritual realm that surrounds us and unless the Spirit of GOD opens our eyes we are oblivious to its everyday presence and workings in our lives.  Music inspired by GOD brings deliverance, peace, love (traits characteristic of the Spirit of GOD (or manifest fruits of Spirit) while secular music brings with it rage, lust, depression, envy (characteristics of the devil).  I know, some say "Well, I don't listen to NEGATIVE music and "Music is just music".  Well, either a person is influenced by the flesh or by the Spirit of God.  It can not be both.  There's no free agency here only free will.  We try to knock the bible out of everyday life to rationalize or justify our behaviour and decisions. 

Next point:  Music is a just a profession right?  If I'm a physician, which GOD ALMIGHTY has given me the intelligence and skill to become, should I perform abortions and say it's just a job or perform sex changes on individuals who decide they are no longer satisfied with the gender they were born with.  Come on, but music which carries spirits is ALL RIGHT b/c it's just a job.  We all have talents given by GOD, how do we use them:  to glorify the ALMIGHTY CREATOR or to satisfy our lustful, fleshy desires.  We will all have to get an account for our actions.  Plus, the bible says LET EVERYTHING THAT HATH BREATHE......  It didn't make a distinction between "professional musicians vs. minstrel"  As I stated above, all our gifts come from GOD.  It's YOUR choice how you use it. 

Nevertheless, I can not judge another person, b/c a so-called secular artist or musician could give their life to Christ and repent just before they leave here. Just like I had to do and must do continously lest I fall.   So I'm not naming names or calling any of them out and I know some personally.  Ask GOD for a revelation about MUSIC and he will show you.  It is so powerful and we're playing around letting stuff into our spiritual pysche.  If it is not motivated by the Spirit of GOD, then where is the motivation coming from.  If it doesn't exhort one to holiness and a closer relationship with GOD what is the purpose. ?/?  Remember, Isreal wanted to be like every other nation and balked at the rules and standards that GOD had set forth them.  Will we continue to do the same. HOLINESS is a standard not a fad or something that we can pick up when the feeling suits us. 


And think about this. Christians should be the one's creating LOVE songs, we have the love of Christ which is and should be the foundation of every marriage.  Marriage is honorable and the bed undefiled.  So how come we don't have many Christian artist creating these type of songs.  Why should I have to go the world in order to "set the mood"  Why do I have to go to secular music when I serve the GOD who is the CREATOR of all progressions, beats, theory, etc.  We have ceded much ground to the enemy and we don't need to do it.  The Bible says give NO SPACE to the devil.  BTW, Christian creating "love" music is not being liberal [Read the Song of Solomon], that's being rooted and grounded in the WORD and mature enough to have this discussion and understanding that GOD ordained "marital relationships". :-[  :P :o  We give much space to the devil when we fail to take our rightful place.  (OK I'm digressing a little, forgive me)

This is not an effort to call anyone out.  Just an intellectual honesty response that I hope is met with love.

Offline DWBass

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2007, 05:13:24 PM »
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Now for the job place and the co-workers well I will tell you that I work with the public in government and I am around all types many who have very questionable lives.
However, I don’t allow their actions to make me act like them.
So then, why should being a professional musician (musician as a profession) be any different?
"Never Leave Home Without Your Groove On" :)

Offline bassthumpa

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2007, 05:38:36 PM »
DESQ, I'm with you on that one bruh.

Offline Torch7

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2007, 10:05:20 PM »
Jmain, thanks for the testimony, I am glad to hear that you heard the voice of God, and now have a relationship with God.

DESQ, thanks for the post, very thorough, exposition on the situation.

T-Block, I see what you are saying, but theologically speaking.  Your point,
1.) Negates the fact that God gave man dominion, and mankind has the ability to invent things utilizing God's creation.  (Well actually lots of the materials used to invent things are a bi-product of the fall of man, the earth wasn't in the condition, when God created it and said, it was good, but that discussion is outside of the scope of this post.)  Example: Did God create guns? or Items found at the Adult Novelty store? or like mentioned before, the Abortion process?

2.) Saying Satan perverts everything God creates is also a non-truth.  a.) See point 1, b.) I wish all sin was so cut and dry...  We sin because the "Devil made me do it", When we know, we can be tempted, but ultimately, our flesh, is extremely hostile towards God, because of the sinners nature, deeply rooted in man-kind.  But thank God for Christ and the Cross, that gives us power over the flesh.

DWBass,
I think there is a fundamental difference between being in a public workplace, and participating is an action that is questionable, as a musician you are a part of the activity, (IF it is questionable) not just a casual observer. We as Christians a called to be lights in the workplace.  Its hard to be a light when your partaking in the same activity as another.

Here's a story.  If anyone is familiar with Austin, Texas... you know 6th street is a main attraction, which is a bar district with lots of Live Music venues.  We have often went down to sixth street with the purpose of witnessing to those who haven't heard about Jesus.  I think maybe 75% of the people I talk to down there, have said, they are "Serving the Lord", and they are members of "XYZ Church".  Of those 75% I mentioned none of them come across as a light, most are drunk, and on the prowl.  It really isn't a good testimony to the power of Jesus.  Every time I leave from down there, I have to encourage myself in the Lord, the music literally infultrates you as you walk up and down the streets, I wish I could articulate in a post, what I see in the spirit, but you can literally sense the demonic presences.  Trust me when I say there is a power behind music.

I think DESQ, hit the nail on the head, when mentioning... "Ask God to give you revelation about music"...  I think that sums it all up, right there.

Offline DWBass

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2007, 05:46:23 AM »
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DWBass,
I think there is a fundamental difference between being in a public workplace, and participating is an action that is questionable, as a musician you are a part of the activity, (IF it is questionable) not just a casual observer. We as Christians a called to be lights in the workplace.  Its hard to be a light when your partaking in the same activity as another.
I respectfully disagree but that's a whole 'nuther thread!
"Never Leave Home Without Your Groove On" :)

Offline phatstrings

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2007, 08:49:55 AM »
My next question:  How do ya'll feel about some of our favorite bass players (Andrew Gouche) playing in churches around the country and still playing and touring with secular artists?

   I think it offers a great opportunity for christian musicians to share their faith with their non believing friends.We are the light of the world,so how do they see the light when we are so far away and holed up in the four walls of the church? IMO...
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Offline T-Block

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2007, 08:51:00 AM »
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T-Block, I see what you are saying, but theologically speaking.  Your point,
1.) Negates the fact that God gave man dominion, and mankind has the ability to invent things utilizing God's creation.


Those 2 words right there proved my point.  God created everything.  Anything else?

Quote
Did God create guns? or Items found at the Adult Novelty store? or like mentioned before, the Abortion process?

God didn't directly create those things, but he created the materials used to make those things.  

Quote
2.) Saying Satan perverts everything God creates is also a non-truth.  a.) See point 1, b.) I wish all sin was so cut and dry...  We sin because the "Devil made me do it", When we know, we can be tempted, but ultimately, our flesh, is extremely hostile towards God, because of the sinners nature, deeply rooted in man-kind.  But thank God for Christ and the Cross, that gives us power over the flesh.

It's satan working through man that perverts the things God created.  So, to cut out the middle man, satan perverts everything God creates.  Anything else?

This thing is up to the individual and there is no universal "yes" or "no" answer for this.  So, you do what u feel is right and i'll do the same.  

I got nothing against you or anybody else who believes different from me.  If i offended anyone, I apologize, but i'm sticking to my guns. ;D
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Offline Torch7

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2007, 10:09:07 AM »

Those 2 words right there proved my point.  God created everything.  Anything else?

God didn't directly create those things, but he created the materials used to make those things. 

It's satan working through man that perverts the things God created.  So, to cut out the middle man, satan perverts everything God creates.  Anything else?

This thing is up to the individual and there is no universal "yes" or "no" answer for this.  So, you do what u feel is right and i'll do the same. 

I got nothing against you or anybody else who believes different from me.  If i offended anyone, I apologize, but i'm sticking to my guns. ;D

You are using my very point, to prove your own.  We need not get caught up in semantics.  The fact that I stated God's creation,... after I said, "I see what you are saying, BUT"  Speaks to your are right about God creating everything, in that he spoke the universe into existence.  So we agree on that point.   :'(  <-- tears of joy. 

Your second response is given to a set of rhetorical questions, and you answered the way I anticipcated.
"GOD didn't create those things", he was merely as supplier of material.  <-- we agreed again.  2 for 2.

The last point, the last time I checked Man had a free will, and this universes focal point is man-kind, if we could merely cut out the middle man, and blame satan, why would christ have to die (no need to answer, that too is rhetorical)

I have nothing but respect for you T-Block, not based on your opinion, but for your decision to live for Christ, and like you stated, It is not a matter of offending, or trust me I wouldn't have posted.  I too will keep my guns, cocked, unless I feel led to stand-down.

We will agree to disagree on point 3 (even though I'm right... j/k) as I see it 2 out of 3 ain't bad. 

No need to apologize no love lost br'er.  Just chattin'

phatstrings, I think the intention to be a light amongst the un-saved; is an honorable one.  But more times than not, the unsaved end up making the Christian compromise, than the Christian winning the unsaved to the kingdom.  Not saying that it can't happen, its just not the norm, based on my experiences, and the experiences of others I have talked too.  The scriptures are very clear about our interaction with the world, how we are supposed to behave around world, what our purpose is in this world, So I don't want anyone to think that I am locked up in the church and never go out amongst unbelievers, but when I am with them, my hearts cry has to be for their salvation, if I believe there really is a hell, and that's were they are headed without Jesus.  Sometimes I feel lead to witness, sometimes my lifestyle is the witness (my stance on what I will and will not do.)

Another story... sorry, I have bunches of them, I can't help but share.
We come from a family full of thugs, down to grandma; my family tree is full of gangsta types.  My oldest brother who turned his life around since the last time he got out of prision, now owns a barbershop, and clothing store in town.  The element that hangs out there is very "thugish", for lack of a better word.  They are always hanging out drinking, talking about women, etc. I'm standing out there with my brothers and mutual friends, and a girl lady walks by; immediately I heard, within myself "Don't look"  Ofcourse now, I'm trying to figure out what I shouldn't be looking at, all the eyes of the guys out in front off the shop, were on me, to see if I would look, because they know I am a christian.  Now had I looked, it would have given them a license to justify what they are doing, why because he's the preacher and he looks.  One guy, who is also a child-hood friend, went on and on about how he saw me looking out of the corner of my eye.  I didn't event try to defend myself.  I said all that to say this, If you are of the faith, and you are with the world, remember that there will be attack on your character, because if you ever fall short, the unsaved will look at Christ and what he requires in a different way.

Wow, that started out being $0.02, and ended up a $1.50 -- Sorry for the long wind.

Offline Torch7

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2007, 10:10:32 AM »
I respectfully disagree but that's a whole 'nuther thread!

I respect that you disagree... :)

Which part do you disagree with?

Offline T-Block

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2007, 11:05:29 AM »
The last point, the last time I checked Man had a free will, and this universes focal point is man-kind, if we could merely cut out the middle man, and blame satan, why would christ have to die (no need to answer, that too is rhetorical)

I have nothing but respect for you T-Block, not based on your opinion, but for your decision to live for Christ, and like you stated, It is not a matter of offending, or trust me I wouldn't have posted.  I too will keep my guns, cocked, unless I feel led to stand-down.

We will agree to disagree on point 3 (even though I'm right... j/k) as I see it 2 out of 3 ain't bad. 

No need to apologize no love lost br'er.  Just chattin'

Man does have free will.  But, only the saved man has the power to resist the devil and his tricks.

I have much love and respect for you to my brother.

2 out of 3 huh?  That's more than we usually agree. ;D
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Offline jeremyr

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2007, 11:45:14 AM »
But, only the saved man has the power to resist the devil and his tricks.

I will have to respectfully disagree.  I know a few unsaved brothas that refuse to fall to the temptation of drugs and alcohol. 

A saved man can fall just like a unsaved man.  And an unsaved man can resist just like a saved man. The end of it all falls into who has that personally relationship with God.
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Offline Torch7

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2007, 03:27:25 PM »
2 out of 3 huh?  That's more than we usually agree. ;D

No doubt.



Offline Mysteryman

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2007, 03:38:37 PM »
I Christian can almost have just about anything as a profession. I dont believe God would condemn a saved musician from playing secular music. I think its all about the message you are promoting. We all have choices to make. You may or may not make as much money as the musicians promoting negative messages. I believe God puts people in places to be witnesses. Some people believe you cant go into acting and be saved but I believe its possible. Just choose the right outlets and avoid compromise. Anyone can be liable to do wrong on any job. All things are lawful but all things are not expedient. You have to be the judge prayfully when situations come up.
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Offline T-Block

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2007, 08:32:51 AM »
I will have to respectfully disagree.  I know a few unsaved brothas that refuse to fall to the temptation of drugs and alcohol. 

A saved man can fall just like a unsaved man.  And an unsaved man can resist just like a saved man. The end of it all falls into who has that personally relationship with God.

O.K., let me explain.  A saved man has the power to resist something they "loved" to do that is wrong.  If you were used to having sex and u not married, when u get saved, that desire may still be there, but now u have power to resist it.

An unsaved person doesn't have power to stop doing something they love to do that is wrong.  If an unsaved person has no desire to smoke, then yeah it's easy to resist that.  But, if that same person loves to smoke, has the desire to smoke, he has no power to say no to it because he loves to do it, even though it's wrong.

That's what i'm talking about.
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Offline jeremyr

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2007, 07:40:47 AM »
O.K., let me explain.  A saved man has the power to resist something they "loved" to do that is wrong.  If you were used to having sex and u not married, when u get saved, that desire may still be there, but now u have power to resist it.

That's what i'm talking about.
T-Block I see exactly what you're saying and I agree with 90% of it, it's just that I don't believe that someone that is unsaved can't overcome a drug addiction.  I mean how many times have we seen these ex-crack heads that are unsaved that appear on Oprah, or the Montell Williams show.

I have an uncle who could be considered "unsaved" that had a drug problem. I want to put emphasis on the word HAD.  Now God is working with him I can see that and I know it.  Just like God can work with anyone.  If you have the will to do right and want to better yourself I don't see how it's possible to say that someone can't "say no".  It will definitely be alot harder without the holy spirit on your side, but impossible I dare not say.

Life is all about choices.  The choice to serve God,  the choice not to smoke, the choice to smoke, the choice to quit smoking.  Those are all choices that all of us here on LGM have run into at least 2 of those.  I think to say that someone can't make a choice is going against life itself in a way.

I mean we could look at it like this.  Saul use to Kill the saints.  He probably loved killing the saints, and had no desire to quit, but we see what happened to him.  His life was turned upside down and did a complete 180 turn.
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Offline bassthumpa

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2007, 07:52:28 AM »
Not saying that an unsaved person can't overcome things... but they don't have that same power as someone with the Holy Ghost within to overcome things.

Offline T-Block

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2007, 08:00:15 AM »
T-Block I see exactly what you're saying and I agree with 90% of it, it's just that I don't believe that someone that is unsaved can't overcome a drug addiction.  I mean how many times have we seen these ex-crack heads that are unsaved that appear on Oprah, or the Montell Williams show.


I agree with u you here, but it also proves my point.  When a person is sick and tired of doing something, he can change, saved or not.  It's like eating, if u full then you can stop yourself from taking that extra bite.  Why?  Because you don't want it anymore.

But, only the saved man has the power to do something he "loves" to do that is wrong.  I'm talking about things we have a desire for.
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Offline laj528

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Re: Secular Music
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2007, 08:32:05 AM »
I see this post has continued and is even begining to morph.  :)

First to respond to the statement that playing secular music as a profession is just like any other professions.

Well I agree! If that is what you get paid to do then that is your profession.

Now as far as the spiritual aspect of it I will have to say that some occupations I will not and can not do.
I have to constantly keep before me my conviction to not let my goods be evil spoken of and to shun the very appearance of evil.

The very fact that this is a hot topic is enough to tell me that I should not play secularly. I should do all that I can do to prevent my witness for God from being tainted.

“Secular meaning worldly or material or the antonym of spiritual”

Paul maintained a secular job or profession of a tent maker. He must have repaired or sold tents to the saved as well as the sinner. However; I never read that he participated in the pagan dances or calibrations. He maintained a standard of holiness.   

Now for the power piece:

Sinner can quit doing everything but being a sinner! The power that we have (ACTS1:8 ) is the power to keep saying no to the devil and yes to God. It is the power to say I need to let things go that shame my God and stain my raiment. “What shall separate me from the love of God?”

Isn’t it strange that AA or NA will help people break dependencies but still remind them that they will always be an alcoholic or a drug addict?

The power of the Holy Ghost is that the nature is changed, not just the issue. It is not a quick fix but one that kills the old man and a new man is born. 

IMHO

Peace
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Heb12:14)
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