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Author Topic: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?  (Read 10990 times)

Offline Keys410

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2007, 09:28:29 AM »
As mentioned earlier, my MOM is full-time staff so he is under a contract along with the other "paid" musicians (keyboard, organist, and drums). We have HR committee at church and they have an employee handbook, etc.

They have to submit in for vacation time or to be off just like a 8-5. It is funny how things work because the "volunteers" are all involved in other church ministries like teaching 9th-10th grade youth Bible Study, or working in the Marriage Ministry or just attending sunday school and Bible Study, while the "paid musicians" well, let's just say most of the time if they are not playing, they are no where to be found. 3 of them came to play and then eventually became members but you don't see them if they don't play.....Hmmmmm!!!

IMO...That's out of order. Music ministry carries alot of weight in service. If they are not spiritually getting what they need such as bible study, prayer, etc the music ministry will not be as effective as it should be.
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Offline Quebass86

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2007, 10:47:42 AM »
Don't get me wrong, they are great guys but it is hard to get the true chemistry down. They never want to put in extra time to practice so we can really get locked down. It can be frustrating at times because they are really gifted and blessed with alot of talent, I am the late bloomer and I know I need the extra work to perfect my craft.
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Offline MYCAL

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2007, 01:05:23 PM »
I agree with most of the commits.I do have a job.I do enjoy the worship experience each and every Sunday,and I love to play.Not looking for another salary,just a little something for strings,repair or calibration of my basses etc..... Maybe fund could be set up for that purpose? I know that we all love the worship and love music the bass.

  thanx too you all. The keepers of the bottom Line.  Mycal

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2007, 02:32:02 PM »
This is a great topic! I'm not sure why some make biblical that you shouldn't be paid to play.    There are those that go to college getting masters and p.h.d. in music.  So of course they expect to use this as a career.

1 Timothy 5:17-18, “The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

1 Corinthians 9:14 declares, “In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.”

Most people chooses a career according to their passion, if music a passion and you want to play for the church instead of the world and you choose this as your career, why not get paid. 

It's not a sin, it doesn't go against the word of God.

Since there are so many churches that does so many funds such as building funds, building funds, and more building funds.  How about changing the game to a musicians funds, and that way if churches have a problem paying salary, they can at least give a fund.



Offline Quebass86

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2007, 03:13:48 PM »
When I grew up, we had that building fund that never went towards building anything.

I too am in no way looking for a salary, like mentioned before, we use our own instruments and must maintain them in order to perform during the week at practice and on sunday. Just an appreciation sometimes would be nice. I mean, when you get appreciated better at other churches than your home church that can hurt a little bit.
May God's Grace & Mercy smile upon you!

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2007, 03:26:54 PM »
When I grew up, we had that building fund that never went towards building anything.

I too am in no way looking for a salary, like mentioned before, we use our own instruments and must maintain them in order to perform during the week at practice and on sunday. Just an appreciation sometimes would be nice. I mean, when you get appreciated better at other churches than your home church that can hurt a little bit.

i totally agree.  Most churches (from what i hear by the members) say that there's been building funds for year and not even a door knob has been replaced.  Maybe not a salary unless you're playing full-time for a large church like Potter's house that requires traveling, rehearing daily, recording albums etc.. but for the smaller churches let's start a musician fund.  Even $20 dollars given to me for appreciation means a lot and keeps me motivated.

Offline floaded27

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2007, 04:42:03 PM »
this is kinda turnin into a building fund forum. the building fund isnt just to replace stuff (renovations) in the church but to maintain the church, like pay light, gas, phone, and water bills, property taxes, loans, and rent (for churches that dont own the place they're in), all of which an average member doesn't see, but benefit from nonetheless.

there is a strategy to alleviate the original problem. if equipment care and maintenance were considered and included as legitimate church maintenance expenses (which already probably is for the house system) then your problems of bass care would be taken care of. note, however, that if you want proper care or something done of your choosing, you may have to pay out of pocket at the time and get reimbursed by the church afterwards, which is how my church does for drum equipment. otherwise u'll have someone who dont know a bass from a guitar taking care of that, like buying strings for u or taking ur bass to a shop for maintenance, etc., which u most likely dont want.

the musician fund makes sense in theory, but i have a feeling that people will start paying towards it based on their feelings of your performance, which could go from legitimate to outright stupid. For instance, a choir member could say "none of the musicians showed up for rehearsal this week so im not giving anything" (legitimate). but then u could have a member on sunday morning say "i didnt like the songs they played today so im not giving anything (totally unfair). it could be done as a supplement to what the church put aside, but not as the only source, unless its a church that cant afford anything at all.
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Offline DWBass

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2007, 04:42:32 PM »
Just want to clarify that sometimes, the 'building fund' is to pay bills, fund repairs and such and not for actually building anything. Building meaning the actual building that is occupied. It also depends on the property. Does the church own the actual property? Many old traditional faith churches cannot be built upon because they are considered historical properties.
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Offline DWBass

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2007, 04:43:10 PM »
Wow, talk about posting at the same time! :)
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Offline BimmerFan99

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2007, 05:03:09 PM »
First, let it be known I'm not here to divert this thread into a discussion on the Sabbath.

To add on to the divisiveness of whether or not to pay musicians, my home church is Seventh-day Adventist.  There seems to be a strong divide between people who think musicians should be paid and those who don't.  Many of those who think musicians should not be paid cite Sabbath-keeping texts that teach against working on the Sabbath.  So, in their view, musicians who get paid are working on the Sabbath and thus the church and the musicians are both breaking the law of God.  Others think that musicians possess a gift given to them by God, so it is wrong to request compensation.  On the other side, some Adventists believe that musicians are skilled and a critical component to the worship service and thus should be compensated accordingly.

Personally, I believe musicians should be paid for their time and expertise because they are ministers and are jointly responsible for the worship atmosphere with the pastor and/or MoM.  I've heard some say, "Well, Bro. What's-his-face can play the piano."  But, we all know being a service musician is almost a completely different being.  It takes years of experience to understand the worship atmosphere and play accordingly.  I'm sure even the most seasoned service musicians on these boards are still learning.  I believe the amount of commitment, time and effort to do this is worth fair compensation just as much as the pastor spends time not just learning the Bible, but developing techniques to effectively teach it to his congregation.

Furthermore, ALL musicians should be held accountable for professionalism - paid or not.  If you make a commitment to be at a certain rehearsals or services, then you need to do just that.  It is simply irresponsible to come late or just when you feel like it and only leads others to classify musicians into negative stereotypes that feed the bitterness others have against musicians.

I do not get paid at my home church, but I spend plenty of time outside of service preparing, practicing and putting together charts for the band.  If the musicians are not paid, then I believe churches should provide adequate funding to the music ministry so that the musicians can have good equipment and keep their own instruments in good condition.

Offline bigneil

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2007, 05:27:51 PM »
its not like that. and i didnt mean it like that. if you have a legitimate reason then thats more than ok. its God, family, then the church. im talkin about when u wont put in that extra effort/time at all simply because ur not paid to. its ok to refuse, but not all the time ONLY because ur not getting extra money for it.

i do apologize if my comment bothered you. it was not my intention at all. i do hope my clarification alleviated that.

No, no my fellow low ender. I didn't say that to lash out at you. In fact, the comment didn't even bother me. I wasn't saying that you making that comment got under my skin. I was refering to the people I'm around, but I didn't make that clear and I do greatly apologize for that. I'm kinda still in the mourning stage with the loss of my daughter and somethings about how the house of God is handled really burns me right now, but I truely apologize for making you feel as though I lashed out at you.    :'( :'( :'(
I must fight with my praise.

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2007, 08:34:39 AM »
i thought that's where the tithes and offerings come into place for the light bills etc... Most of the churches i've visited there an announcement of the building fund to build a new church.

Sorry for getting off topic, let me swing back to the topic above.

Offline Keys410

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2007, 08:56:56 AM »
i thought that's where the tithes and offerings come into place for the light bills etc... Most of the churches i've visited there an announcement of the building fund to build a new church.

Sorry for getting off topic, let me swing back to the topic above.


Dude there are alot of people not paying either...Not giving God his 10% and not giving him a offering for his goodness.

I'm destined for greatness!!!

Offline MYCAL

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2007, 09:06:37 AM »
Quebass86 and Dfwkeys you are right on the mark.Let me explain what happened and why this topic came up in the first place.Two years ago the church came up with the idea of having a fund for our strings,sticks,drumheads etc.What happened was it got abused by one person.And you had to go through some paper work just too get $30.00 for some strings.Thats when I drew the line.I asked for about 75.00 per month nothing more.I don't think that is much too ask for.

Offline Quebass86

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2007, 09:56:02 AM »
They have work shops at the GMWA on paying musicians. My thing at my church is that some of us do and some of us don't get paid. I have never inquired either way. My MOM and church administrator have put it on the table. I don't worry about it because now that I have been playing for awhile and have made alot of friends in the gopsel music ministry I have been Blessed to have friends that at various music stores, guitar centers, etc. that give me good deals on strings, setups, etc. Not that I couldn't afford it but it is nice to know that I can get a setup done in 24 hours at no charge if I need it.

We have all been Blessed to one degree or another to be able to handle such an awesome instrument and present it before the Lord. Personally, I never had a goal of playing for my church or any other group. I never thought I would be good enough to do that, especially at starting to play so late in my life (late 30's). Now, it has truly become a part of my life. I can't wait to get home from work and practice or try something new that one of you have posted or done. I can truly see myself growing more and more in this ministry. I played trumpet for 20 years through college so I know about practicing long hours. But when you have a chance to create your own melody and blend in with the others and give the song life, it is a wonderul thing...

Be Blessed!!

The only thing I am concerened about is when judement day comes GOD will say, "Your music was a sweet sound to my ears and it Blessed My Spirit, well done my good and faithful servent"


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Offline dhagler

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2007, 11:51:44 AM »
Like Quebass86, I started playing relatively late in life (I am nearly 43 and I started playing just over two years ago) but I believe that God has blessed me by (1) giving me opportunities to play alongside some outstanding musicians; (2)increasing my ability to read music and to play by ear; (3) putting it on the hearts of the trustee board members at not one but two churches that I should receive some compensation; (4) introducing me to this forum.  Playing the bass has added so much to my life that I can't imagine NOT playing.  I want to continue playing at church but I also want to develop as a jazz musician.

That said, let me attempt to turn the page again.  If you are a compensated musician or minister of music, should you be under contract?

Offline Quebass86

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2007, 02:25:33 PM »
Since I am neither here is my general opinon. YES! A contract is in order. I feel it is the benefit for  both sides depending how you draw it up. First, as a paid staff member there are certain expectations of you as far as rehearsals, programs in addition to regular service and I think you should also be held accountable for being in Sunday School, Bible Study....It is a leadership position and you  must be grounded in the word at every position in the church ministry. My father who just turned 80 is still the head pastor at my church back on the east coast and when I was a kid growing up I remeber that if you were in any kind of leadership role in the church you were expected to be in SS and BStudy at a minimum and at that time we had pianist and sometimes an organist...they were paid $25/sunday...this was back in the 70's. He still holds that philosophy.

Now on the other hand, a contract is good for the musicians too because we do have musicians that write their own music and have gotten them scored, copy righted, etc. so they can make sure that they have their music protected as well.

I believe in knowing what is expected from both sides of the table and having a bassline foundation and guidelines so there are no shades of gray....
May God's Grace & Mercy smile upon you!

Offline MYCAL

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2007, 08:31:23 AM »
This was a good thread guys and gals,I know we have some gals out there thumping.Want to hear from them also.Anyway time to move on. Thanx

Offline bishop424

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Re: SHOULD MUSICIANS BE PAID IN CHURCH AND HOW MUCH?
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2013, 07:28:38 PM »


Hi, It's been a long time since I've been on here. I have been playing organ and piano for churches for 21 years. I've been getting paid because the church requires it. I charge based on my services and or have an agreement based on what's needed. As far as persons Christian Education, That should be personal between the individual and God. I understand that some musician get burned by pastors because they are not worthy of what they are worth or should play for free. I also know that musician burn pastors because of greed.

When musicians are needed, they have to sacrifice their family, work, and time to prepare for choirs, groups, and for order of service.

If musician plays for free, then he has financial income to make ends meet. But when a musician doesn't, that musician has to struggle including still deal with the church.

Now for the record: I read sheet music, play by ear, teach, vocal train work with choirs and or groups based on classification format.
I am on a contract where the church and I agree on what's required and what is said to be paid so there is no confusion and no problems.

I have been well grounded in a church for 8 of those 21 years so as professional I have been taken care and been very respected.


Be Blessed :D


     

     
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