Do you really get what you pay for in a custom bass?

[mjl422]

I was looking at some custom basses today.  I saw a MTD listed at $5400 and a used Fodera at $5000.  I also looked at some Ken Smiths (don't remember what they were going for).  But, I was wondering what makes them worth so much?

Don't get me wrong, I want a nice MTD, FBass, Roscoe or Ken Smith (possibly all of them) someday.  And if I had that kind of money to spend on a bass, I would get one.  But, with instruments like Lakland and several other manufacturers on the market, are customs really worth what you pay?

Now days, you can buy a high quality bass for less than $1000 and swap out the electronics (if you need to) and hardware (if you need to) and have a sound very close to those high price basses.  Most of the time, it won't look like a custom or have the name of a custom but, it won't have the price tag of a custom either.   So why can't I stop drooling everytime I see a MTD?

[ddwilkins]

You can get a lower priced bass that sounds just as good as a custom bass. but to answer your question, you really get what you pay for in a custom bass.

[DWBass]

You're pretty much paying for the time and effort that goes into building a bass by hand! Now on the other hand, I just can't justify paying Sadowsky prices for a (pretty much) CNC parts bass. Sure, it's finished by hand but you can get a Valenti for half (or less) what a Sad' costs! And Valenti can do a bit more custom even though it's still a parts bass. Having said that, I think some prices are reasonable and some just way off.

[BassbyGrace]

I have to say yes.  Ive played a few very high end basses and for the most part, they play like a high end bass.  Thing Ive come to learn about some custom basses (esp. if you trying to get one built) is you have to know exactly what you want as far as woods, necks, electronics, etc.  I can say Im not really a person that gets that technical into it.  I cant tell you the diff. between a wenge/quilted maple/sequiora combination as opposed to something else lol. 

The thing that trips me out is alot of bass players spend mad money trying to get all these high end basses but on the other hand worship fenders that cost like 2-4k less than what they buy (or they try to find a fender-like bass). 

[ptidwell]

If I can weigh in as one who buy custom basses. You do get what you pay for, and because of the cost you need to make sure that what you get is what you want.
I say that because I have had an F Bass BN5, Valenti J5 #20, Roscoe SKB 3006, Sadowsky MV5, Skjold EC5, all fine instument and there was something about each that I loved or could live without, but ultimately may not have matched the tone I was hearing in my head. Now these basses are expensive but they all hold a very good resale value, which makes it easy to buy sell and trade, I am also writting this in hopes that some of you will not have to go through the process I have gone through to fine the bass with the tone and feel that's you. There is a story behind all these aquisitions. The F Bass I thought I would never get rid of, but I wanted a sixer so it went for the Roscoe, the Valenti went for the Sadowsky, the Skjold (my bigest regret) went for my MTD 535 (yea I still have it) the Roscoe SKB 3006 went for a MTD 635/24 that went for yet another MTD 635/24 with different wood combinations. So as of today I have two MTD's in the house a 535 and a 635/24 I sold everything else because I have 3 custom basses being built. Two Skjold one a J5 and the other a fretless P/J 5 and a Nordstrand JJ/PJ with swappable neck pickups a couple of pickguards, and I believe I am done. The MTD's deliver my tone and the feel for me is phenominal, the Skjold's well you would just have to play one to understand, and the Nordstrand is traditional jazz bass. The thing about the custom is that you pick your wood combinations number of frets type of frets, for the fretless lined or unlined you choose the pickups, (but most of them are custom as well) the preamp active or passive, matching headstock or not, bridge, tuners, de-tuner that's custom. I talk with Pete Skjold on the phone for hours, Mike Tobias, I can call him on his cell phone. Carey Nordstrand's shop is only miles away he'll say come by the shop. I have all kinds of pictures of my basses being build. There's a documentry on Mike Tobias, here are some teasers for you MTD fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMV6NBBRVAE

and

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qJUrKyFXeAo

There are shots there of my bass (the one in my avatar & below) at the 20-21 sec point which was completed in April. All in all custom shop outside of being hand built and finely crafted by some of the best luthier's on the planet, is also very personal, who can I talk to about my bass at Fender would they say yea i remember that one, or Yamaha, lakeland, they all have built great instuments, but for me custom shop is the way to go. I played bass for years then played keys for 15 years in church (my first instrument) I would buy a keyboard and pay anywhere from $1500-$4500 three years go buy and the keyboard is worth $400. My MTD's will not loose value, it's an instrument and an investment. BTW, this is IMHO and you may fell that you could buy a MIM Fender put a Sadowsky pre in it some Nordstrand pickups dress the frets and call it custom YMMV, as for me custom baby!


This is Bob he is doing the video on Mike Tobias, he worked for and with Mike for years, along with my MTD 635/24





Also an in process pic of my Spalted Maple/Mahogany/Ebony Skjold Lions Pride Fretless PJ5




My Skjold lions Pride J5 Maple Burl/Ash/Ash/Maple. Waiting on Nordy pics.



Finally a Photoshop mock up of a completed Skjold "Lions Pride"
           

[malthumb]

Hard to add anything meaningful to the posts that have come before me but I'll try.  Of the 5 basses I currently own, I custom ordered and specced out 3 of them.  Each was ordered for very specific reasons. 

The Alembic 5 I ordered to be everything I would want in a 5 string fretted bass, and more.  Considering I've owned it since June 2000 and have NO inclination to part with it, I'd say it was worth what I paid for it (a lot!  Think "small used car").

I ordered the Marchlewski because of the unique design of the one it's modeled after.  I also intended for it to be the ultimate slap machine. That's why it has a maple core, maple neck, and maple fingerboard.  It's pretty darn good, but I still like the slap sound of both my Alembics and my Fender Marcus Miller better.  I chose every board for every piece of wood that went into building it from pictures the builder emailed to me.  The top and back are Amboyna Burl and the neck stringers are Bloodwood.  In retrospect I probably should have specified an ash core instead of maple.  Might have made for a more focused slap tone.  I paid less than $2K for it in 2004, so I definitely feel like I got my money's worth on it.

My most recent custom is the Roscoe LG-3005 fretless.  I needed a fretless and I thought I'd tone down the appearance, since I would mostly use it in church.  Most of my basses have an "in your face" presence, with wood grain, polished chrome, and gold plating popping off everywhere.  I chose a body that Roscoe had in inventory.  I intentionally chose one witout any of the wild grain patterns that you can often find on a Roscoe.  I opted for Tobacco Burst finish, so that it would have the look of a vintage sunburst Fender Jazz.  I chose an ebony fingerboard, partly because I wanted something more toned down than some of the wild Purpleheart or Coco Bolo or Diamondwood fingerboards you see on Roscoes.  I also love the look, feel, and soun of ebony on my Alembics.  Anyway, this supposedly "toned down" bass still has a rather stunning appearance.  I'd be embarrassed to tell you how little I paid for this bass, considering what Roscoes tend to go for.  Suffice it to say, I've seen used Roscoes go for more than I paid.

In the picture below, the bass far left is the Marchlewski, next to it is my custom ordered Alembic.  The 4 string Alembic is one I bought used, the bass hanging sideways is my Fender Marcus Miller, and the bass furthest to the right is the "plain looking" Roscoe.

All in all, I think I definitely got my money's worth from my customs.


Peace,

James

[ssabass]

I think in some situations you get what you pay for. but I know first hand that the korean made laklands, sound just as good or maybe even better than the handmade usa models. I play a lakland korean made 5, & I was going to upgrade to the usa model, so I went to the where they make them in chicago, along with my bass, & I   could not justify spending $2000.00 more, since the electronics are the same. As a matter of fact, they really couldn't give a good explanation why I should upgrade. A good tone, should be what we all want, and just because a bass cost more, does not always mean it's better. Marcus millers mother only paid $280.00  for his bass, after the first two were stolen, and he has the best tone in the business. {he talks about that on his latest dvd, master of all trades}.       

[ptidwell]

I think in some situations you get what you pay for. but I know first hand that the korean made laklands, sound just as good or maybe even better than the handmade usa models. I play a lakland korean made 5, & I was going to upgrade to the usa model, so I went to the where they make them in chicago, along with my bass, & I   could not justify spending $2000.00 more, since the electronics are the same. As a matter of fact, they really couldn't give a good explanation why I should upgrade. A good tone, should be what we all want, and just because a bass cost more, does not always mean it's better. Marcus millers mother only paid $280.00  for his bass, after the first two were stolen, and he has the best tone in the business. {he talks about that on his latest dvd, master of all trades}.       

saabass,
I assume your speaking only on Lakland and also from experience I have come to the same conclusion with Sadowsky Metro vs. USA, same probably holds true for Fender CIJ, MIM or USA custom shop. Although as custom you can specify your wood and electronics to a certain extent with these companies, it's not the same when they say high-end bass through a luthier you actually get to dialog with and discuss your bass specifically. These companies just extend to you a few more options but not a huge quality difference IMO for whatever that's worth. When I think custom I think hand built by a luthier not CNCed. But even a top, front and back, blocks and bindings and specific hardware wouldn't justify a 2K up charge, but I guess someone out there will pay it.

[malthumb]

I made some significant changes to my earlier post on this subject.  I was checking out of a hotel in Virginia when I sent it the first time.  Time pressure did not allow me to get everything in, so I just changed it to get caught up.

Peace,

James

[ptidwell]

I think in some situations you get what you pay for. but I know first hand that the korean made laklands, sound just as good or maybe even better than the handmade usa models. I play a lakland korean made 5, & I was going to upgrade to the usa model, so I went to the where they make them in chicago, along with my bass, & I   could not justify spending $2000.00 more, since the electronics are the same. As a matter of fact, they really couldn't give a good explanation why I should upgrade. A good tone, should be what we all want, and just because a bass cost more, does not always mean it's better. Marcus millers mother only paid $280.00  for his bass, after the first two were stolen, and he has the best tone in the business. {he talks about that on his latest dvd, master of all trades}.       

I like the way you think out the purpose of the bass. That's what got me into the custom arena, It would have to be a exceptional bass for me to buy off the shelf now.
Tell me more abot the  Marchlewski, can't see that well from the angle. I have set  for myself a five bass limit, have three basses being built now so over the past 6 months I have cleaned house on everything except a MTD 635/24 and a MTD 535. Gone in recent months is my F Bass BN5, Roscoe SKB 3006, Sadowsky MV5, and it hurt me to let go of my Skjold SC5. Letting those go have financed the new ones coming a Nordstrand JJ/PJ 5 custom with two different pickups for the neck a Jazz and a P it will have a quick connect and two pick guards so it will take about 15 minutes to change over Ash body, Ash neck, Brazillian Rosewood board. Two Skjold's on is a Fretless PJ5 Spalted Maple Top over a Mahogany body. Pete is doing something revolutionary with the neck pickup it is his C4 pickup it has 4 coils in it for a standard PJ configuration or you can hit the switch and have it as a reverse P or all four coils that's going to be hot with the Spalted top I chose. The second one from Pete is a J5 Maple Burl over Ash with a maple neck and board that ought to slap. Just got some updated pictures of the Skjold's today. Carey Nordstrand said my body was out being painted so no pictures right now. To answer the question, You Really Get What You Pay For In A Custom At least I do.


Spalted Maple Fretless PJ5




Maple Burl J5

[malthumb]

.......Tell me more abot the  Marchlewski, can't see that well from the angle.....

The thread I'm linking below is my first "subjective" review.  A few things have changed since then.  The tone quality that I describe in this thread is in original condition with 18V Bartolini circuit.  After a couple months I noticed the back cover was getting....ummm....warm.  As in HOT!!!  As in, I think something in there might be burning!!.  Well, it wasn't exactly burning, but all the electronics jammed into that compartment and powered by two 9V batteries was a bit much.  Jake built in the circuit I asked him for and he told me it would be tight, but I knew what I wanted.  Anyway, I sent it back to him and we agreed to back it off to a Bartolini 9V.  It's not the same super-powered bass I described in this review.  It's still very nice, but at this point I'd say that it doesn't have the same quality slap tone as my Marcus Miller (not the same one I described in the review) or my Alembics.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127030&highlight=malthumb+marchlewski

One of the contributors to the thread goes by the name Wolfehollow.  He designed the original version of this bass.  You'll see a picture of them side by side.  His is a fretless 4 string.

Jon (Wolfehollow) also took pictures during the build process and made a page for them.  Follow this link and you can watch most of the build process.

http://www.clarkandcompany.cc/James.html

Peace,

James