Why do churches under pay organists?

[keb1209]

I don't mean to gripe but my opinion is, if you sacrifice opportunities to support a local ministry, they should at least compensate you rightly, or you should move to a better situtation.

34 years and still going...........

Amen.... very well said.

[COGIC4EVA]

I BELIEVE THAT A MUSICIAN SHOULD BE PAID AND WELL TAKEN CARE OF.  I PERSONALLY GO BY THIS CREED:  I DONT PLAY FOR MONEY BUT MONEY TAKES CARE OF THE NECESSITIES OF MY DAILY LIFE.  (FOOD, SCHOOL SUPPLIES, AND ETC.)  WHEN I GO TO A CHURCH AND PLAY 1ST TIME I DONT CHARGE, AND USUALLY WE NEGOTIATE AFTER THAT.  ANOTHER TIP FOR MUSICIANS:  IF YOURE GETTING PAID, GET YOUR MONEY FIRST THEN PLAY CAUSE EVERYBODY AINT SAVED AND SAFE.  SO AS I COME TO A CLOSE DO WHATEVER THE LORD PUT ON YOUR HEART TO DO.

[sjonathan02]

I BELIEVE THAT A MUSICIAN SHOULD BE PAID AND WELL TAKEN CARE OF.  I PERSONALLY GO BY THIS CREED:  I DONT PLAY FOR MONEY BUT MONEY TAKES CARE OF THE NECESSITIES OF MY DAILY LIFE.  (FOOD, SCHOOL SUPPLIES, AND ETC.)  WHEN I GO TO A CHURCH AND PLAY 1ST TIME I DONT CHARGE, AND USUALLY WE NEGOTIATE AFTER THAT.  ANOTHER TIP FOR MUSICIANS:  IF YOURE GETTING PAID, GET YOUR MONEY FIRST THEN PLAY CAUSE EVERYBODY AINT SAVED AND SAFE.  SO AS I COME TO A CLOSE DO WHATEVER THE LORD PUT ON YOUR HEART TO DO.

  This whole post....

[1achord]

I'm a 34 year church musician.......enough said...if I had gone into the "world" (get an understanding first of word world) I would have been in the forfront of all the music past and present as a writer, instrumentalist, composer etc. I chose to stay in the church. I didn't go to Berkley or any of the other tremendous institutions that have fostered so many of the past and present musicians. I went to work at 17, played for 6 choirs, met 4 rehearsals a week, played Tues, Thurs, Sunday all day (11 - 9 PM), played all the revivals, tent meeting, district meetings, state organist, every Sunday afternoon program and Pastor appointment. I saw my children on Monday and ddn't see them again til Sunday morning. I didn't make any PTA meetings, no cub scouts, little league softball etc. I went though musician burnout watching all the other musicans around me leave for better opportunity and easier workload. I had to do it over again...well you read between the lines.

I don't mean to gripe but my opinion is, if you sacrifice opportunities to support a local ministry, they should at least compensate you rightly, or you should move to a better situtation.

34 years and still going...........

Well stated bro! God bless you for your rational opinion.

[ferrente]

Welcome To LGM,  gharris004

[ferrente]

Here is my solution:

YOu should pay the people who would do it for free.

I agree with 4hisglory,

I played for about a year and didn't ask for any money. I played because the Lord told me he wanted me to play.
By my obedience to the Lord he instructed my Pastor to give me a weekly gift. Also, after about another year the Pastor raised the gift.

[rickster2]

Greetings to all let me just say this when people ask me how much do I charge I can never give them a price because the Bible says that your gift will make room for you and it also states that what you sow you will also reap. What I am saying is when ever you give people a ste price for your services you are limiting God. God wants you in the position where you put him FIRST IN EVERYTHING THING YOU DO. We must realize as a "ministry" that our objective is not to look good because of others, it's not to where the newest fashions, it's not to complete but it's to usher in the Holy Spirit and save souls through your music.Your reward is not to get paid but make it to Heaven.

                                                          Be Blessed

[Wolfram]

Then lets take that scripture and apply it to the enitre church ministry.  You can apply it the the pastorial staff and the administration people, you can apply it to everything except the cold hard bills that come in i.e... power, water, gas, mortgage, etc...  How many of the afore mentioned people would fill the positions they currently are in on a voluntary or even a 'by the Grace of God" love offering week to week.  I am not trying to be blashemous.  I am trying to show you that scripture can be used as a double edged sword.  You can find Truth in many forms.  The very fact that so many people are afraid to ask to be paid for their God given abilities shows me the strength of the religious machine.  We have dictated to people, using the Holy Word as a weapon, what is righteous and what is not righteous.  The fact of the matter is that we are not talking about one's spirituality in any of these discussions.  It seems to always turn that way because the machine wants to guilt us into thinking we are bad to ask for payment for our services.  The REAL problem is that we still live under the thumb of the clergy and they have always been thrifty.  Why pay for it if you can get it for free?  The easiest way to make someone step up is to shame them into a sense of responsibility. 

So you see, one should not try to mix faith into this discussion.  My faith in God is very strong.  I believe that He has given me a talent and I use this talent to make my living.  He has Graciously allowed me the means to do this.  When I play in a church for service, I CHOOSE whether or not I will ask for payment.  In turn the church will then CHOOSE whether or not the fee is worth the services rendered.  My faith has nothing to do with this.  That belongs to God not to the machine.   People in all occupations have learned how to use our emotions to get exactly what they want out of us.  As musicians, we know that already.  It is the same in business.  The administrative part of the machine wants to stay in the black as far as possible.  Not having to pay their musicians is a big way to do that. 

W

[Bruce Slade]

I certainly feel what you brothers, and sisters are saying.  I have been on both sides of that coin.  The whole thing breaks down like this.  When Pontius Pilate told our Lord that he had the power to release Him or have Him crucified, Jesus told him "You would have no power over me unless it is given from My Father in Heaven"  We need to remember that whatever happens we are all servants of the Most High GOD, and it is to Him that we owe our service.  I know that no body here is questioning that so here's the deal.  GOD will bless us with more when He sees us taking care of the little that we have.  So, let us stay strong in the Lord, knowing that what we do is for HIM. He is far more capable on His worst day (if He had any) then we could ever be on our best day.  All of the glory, and honor belongs to HIM.  We are in a good place, because we reflect that by playing love songs to HIM.  GOD Bless you guys.  Let's stay strong in HIS service at all costs. 

[kbolden]

I know the feeling. I am the organist at my church and I get  $ 30 stank dollars. The pianist who is 66 years gets $100 every sunday !!! She can't hold bubble gum to me not trying to brag but it is the truth. I am own to the church playing Monday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday. Age ain't got nothing to do with it. You do what is right. But I look to Jesus to take care of me. But don't look for your reward down here. But it does say in the Bible that musicians were payed.

[one hammes]

Why you all complaining. Are you an employee or a servant of the most high god?

[h313w]

let's see. here in Detroit the organ is the dominant instrument around here, as well is other places maybe. pianist don't seem to make more than organist. more involved when playing organ. There's a site called detroitago.org something like that. Also there's a book of "musicians Guild of organists" which shows what organist should make with OR without a degree, and the lowest I've seen is $37 Gs a year WITHOUT a degree. Depends on what denomination, or where you're working.

Now a lot of times non-musicians determine your salary. They want the best for less. Who can out-think who? who is the fool that playeth for 5 choirs, 2 services, for under $500 a Sunday ? The "employers" are searching for those types. Once found, they'll brag during pastors' meetings on what they're paying. Meanwhile we go IN THE JOB looking, cuz we didn' get what asked for. Sometimes I'll just make enough to get a hamburger or something ( figure of speech ) , as we don't quit the day job... I just got off the phone from hearing a newsbreak : Church near Detroit / 7 choirs/ 4 rehearsals a week/ 2.5 services for $575 a week. See what I'm talking about ?

Yeah the love of money is the root of all evil, but we won' be pimped by some preachers who know more scriptures than that one. We BOTH are doing the Lord's work, but we're getting paid for the aggrevation believe that. No One will do this field with crazy people for nothing. The Money folks are watching you when they ARE truly paying $800 and above for prime time (11 AM service ). They have become a roaring lion, seekin to devour you, throwing darts at you ( why he wearing that ? that's not church decorum ), so just get some nice buffers that have your back while you play on, let the church roll on, and keep the check flowing 

[Wolfram]

Again,

Don't mix the business side of this with the spiritual side of this.  No one here should have to justify their spirituality to any of you just because they feel they deserve to be paid a fair wage.  Taking advantage of another person is also not a very Christian thing to do and that seems to be done on a regular basis...

[h313w]

Again,

Don't mix the business side of this with the spiritual side of this.  No one here should have to justify their spirituality to any of you just because they feel they deserve to be paid a fair wage.  Taking advantage of another person is also not a very Christian thing to do and that seems to be done on a regular basis...

Didn' mix it. just sharing information. answering the question.

[bishopcole]

let's see. here in Detroit the organ is the dominant instrument around here, as well is other places maybe. pianist don't seem to make more than organist. more involved when playing organ. There's a site called detroitago.org something like that. Also there's a book of "musicians Guild of organists" which shows what organist should make with OR without a degree, and the lowest I've seen is $37 Gs a year WITHOUT a degree. Depends on what denomination, or where you're working.

Now a lot of times non-musicians determine your salary. They want the best for less. Who can out-think who? who is the fool that playeth for 5 choirs, 2 services, for under $500 a Sunday ? The "employers" are searching for those types. Once found, they'll brag during pastors' meetings on what they're paying. Meanwhile we go IN THE JOB looking, cuz we didn' get what asked for. Sometimes I'll just make enough to get a hamburger or something ( figure of speech ) , as we don't quit the day job... I just got off the phone from hearing a newsbreak : Church near Detroit / 7 choirs/ 4 rehearsals a week/ 2.5 services for $575 a week. See what I'm talking about ?

Yeah the love of money is the root of all evil, but we won' be pimped by some preachers who know more scriptures than that one. We BOTH are doing the Lord's work, but we're getting paid for the aggrevation believe that. No One will do this field with crazy people for nothing. The Money folks are watching you when they ARE truly paying $800 and above for prime time (11 AM service ). They have become a roaring lion, seekin to devour you, throwing darts at you ( why he wearing that ? that's not church decorum ), so just get some nice buffers that have your back while you play on, let the church roll on, and keep the check flowing 

Harold this is sooooooo true !!!  Bishop Cole

[jonesl78]

 I have NEVER had a problem getting paid at church because that matter was taken care of before I started playing.

[h313w]

Harold this is sooooooo true !!!  Bishop Cole

OK, well let's help out Wolfram understand it. Not mixing busi- with worship. Just gathering info while ministring. You gotta know that things need to be aired out, cuz one could get a nervous breakdown and didn't know where it came from, or knew and didn't have enough health insurance from the "church" to help them out.

[sugeheights]

I feel you man. The organist is the MOST important person during the church service. Even the pastor isnt as important as the organist come sunday morning. Anyone can give a sermon but not every one can run bass on the organ during choir selection #1 and #2. The American Guild of Organists say that a FULL TIME organist who plays gets between $34,000-$46,000 a year without a degree. Based on your 34 year qualifications, you would definitely be getting the top mark. American Guild of Organists also point out that a person can be so talented, that their price EXCEEDS the salary. I just cant see paying someone as talented as Reverend Charles Nicks on the organ $400 a sunday. I mean yes we are all servants of the lord, but dont pastor's get paid too? And last I checked, they get retirement, full health benefits, and EVERYTHING ELSE! Not only do musicians have to go to choir rehearsal, but they have to GO HOME AND PRACTICE! And not only that, they must deal with bad attitudes and play for people sometimes who cant even sing. Its time we start paying the organists what they deserve. For those of you who want to play for free, continue to do so. But always remember, you get what you pay for. And usually those people who play for free really aint that good in the first place.

[sjonathan02]

I feel you man. The organist is the MOST important person during the church service. Even the pastor isnt as important as the organist come sunday morning. Anyone can give a sermon but not every one can run bass on the organ during choir selection #1 and #2. The American Guild of Organists say that a FULL TIME organist who plays gets between $34,000-$46,000 a year without a degree. Based on your 34 year qualifications, you would definitely be getting the top mark. American Guild of Organists also point out that a person can be so talented, that their price EXCEEDS the salary. I just cant see paying someone as talented as Reverend Charles Nicks on the organ $400 a sunday. I mean yes we are all servants of the lord, but dont pastor's get paid too? And last I checked, they get retirement, full health benefits, and EVERYTHING ELSE! Not only do musicians have to go to choir rehearsal, but they have to GO HOME AND PRACTICE! And not only that, they must deal with bad attitudes and play for people sometimes who cant even sing. Its time we start paying the organists what they deserve. For those of you who want to play for free, continue to do so. But always remember, you get what you pay for. And usually those people who play for free really aint that good in the first place.

THIS is the most egregious LIE I've ever read in my tenure on LGM. It's so fraught with untruth that it's scary.

[Metronome]

I feel you man. The organist is the MOST important person during the church service. Even the pastor isnt as important as the organist come sunday morning. Anyone can give a sermon but not every one can run bass on the organ during choir selection #1 and #2. The American Guild of Organists say that a FULL TIME organist who plays gets between $34,000-$46,000 a year without a degree. Based on your 34 year qualifications, you would definitely be getting the top mark. American Guild of Organists also point out that a person can be so talented, that their price EXCEEDS the salary. I just cant see paying someone as talented as Reverend Charles Nicks on the organ $400 a sunday. I mean yes we are all servants of the lord, but dont pastor's get paid too? And last I checked, they get retirement, full health benefits, and EVERYTHING ELSE! Not only do musicians have to go to choir rehearsal, but they have to GO HOME AND PRACTICE! And not only that, they must deal with bad attitudes and play for people sometimes who cant even sing. Its time we start paying the organists what they deserve. For those of you who want to play for free, continue to do so. But always remember, you get what you pay for. And usually those people who play for free really aint that good in the first place.

WOW.....................................umm......................yeah......................