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Author Topic: 9volt vs. 18volt  (Read 7385 times)

Offline mr.dj

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9volt vs. 18volt
« on: September 25, 2007, 12:12:57 PM »
What is the biggest difference in having them?
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Offline dfwkeys

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2007, 02:12:10 PM »
good question, i'm wanting to know the same thing!  :-\

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2007, 03:34:54 PM »
okay, here's something i ran across:

9 Volts vs. 18 Volts

Most active pickups and preamps operate on at least one 9 volt battery, and some use two wired in series, delivering 18 volts. 9 volts works fine for many instruments, so what’s the difference? Well, there are two kinds of 18 volt systems: 9 volt systems that can handle 18 volts, and systems designed for 18 volts.
Many 9-volt systems, like EMG’s, will operate at 9, 18, or 27 volts, and can be supplied from phantom power in a three-conductor cable rather than an internal battery. These systems don’t operate much differently at higher voltages but gain a little better transient response and headroom for percussive signal peaks when run at 18 volts. Any performance improvement between 18 and 27 volts (two and three 9-volt batteries!) is generally considered to be insignificant.

Systems designed for 18 volts, like the Aguilar OBP-1 and some Bartolini preamps, utilize the additional voltage to increase both headroom and the amount of gain that can be provided for E.Q. The Aguilar circuit allows 18dB of clean bass boost, even when slapping a low "B" bass string. The Duncan Hot Livewire set for guitar uses 18 volts to deliver an output hot enough to send even the cleanest guitar amp into overdrive.
 

Offline dfwkeys

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2007, 04:16:29 PM »

Offline DWBass

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2007, 05:05:18 PM »
If I'm not mistaken a 9V system is just the pre-amp that is active. In an 18V system, both pre-amp and pickups are active. There are probably some 18V pre-amps but I really don't see the need for that much headroom. My Peavey Millennium is 18v and is so hot, I'm not diggin' it at all. I have to pad everything to get the signal down to respectful levels.
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Offline mr.dj

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2007, 07:14:37 PM »
Systems designed for 18 volts, like the Aguilar OBP-1 and some Bartolini preamps, utilize the additional voltage to increase both headroom and the amount of gain that can be provided for E.Q. The Aguilar circuit allows 18dB of clean bass boost, even when slapping a low "B" bass string. The Duncan Hot Livewire set for guitar uses 18 volts to deliver an output hot enough to send even the cleanest guitar amp into overdrive.

This is explaination I got today while I was getting my bass rewired to 18volt.
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Offline BimmerFan99

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2007, 07:22:55 PM »
Some basses have two 9-volt batteries wired in parallel and some have the same but wired in series.  Wiring them in parallel gives you a 9-volt system with longer battery life.  Wiring them in series gives you an 18-volt system.

My Schecter has two 9-volt batteries wired in series with EMG-HZ (passive) pickups and an EMG B64 Active EQ.  EMG says 18V allows for more headroom and helps avoid distortion since slapping can increase output to 10-20V.

Offline fatbaby78

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2007, 09:52:10 PM »
All I know is I got the 6 string Peavey cirrus and it takes two 9volts battery........and I have to change them like every two weeks and Im not using cheesy batteries either. Didnt have that problem with none of my 9volt active basses
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Offline MikeGee

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 10:25:28 AM »
I have a Schecter Stilleto Studio 5. 18v. pre. Passive pups. I have no noise problems or nothing like that. The batteries last just as long as the 9v. basses that I have had. When I was experimenting I pluged my 9v. Ibanez right into my power and 300watts to a 4x10 and it sounded like a combo with 20 watss and an 8inch speaker. When I did the exact same thing with my 18v. bass it sounded like 300watts and 4x10s. It was loud and clean. Such a nice sound for slapping and fingering.


When I plag at church plugging into the pa I get more volume with out being loud. It allows the sound guy to lower the gain and still be as loud as my 9volt.

Offline gambit23435

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 04:03:02 PM »
I have a Schecter Stilleto Studio 5. 18v. pre. Passive pups.


Sorry Mike I don't believe that is correct is correct. I have the Schecter Stilletto Studio 6 with the same electronics as the 5. The pre amp and the pickup are one unit the 18 volts is to supply each pickup with 9 volts each. I this because I am planning on changing the pickup to barts soon and the tech a my local music shop said If I did it and I wanted to keep the bass active I had to have the pre amp installed the same time as the pickups. I verified this by checking the web site. Here is the wiring pdf:

http://www.schecterguitars.com/schematic/schecter_STILLETTO_STUDIO_4_5_6_8.pdf

 8)
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Offline DWBass

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 04:15:51 PM »
I believe the Peaveys are the same as the Schecters.
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Offline BimmerFan99

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2007, 04:21:02 PM »
How does the battery provide power to the pickups?  If the pickups are passive, then they shouldn't require nor use any power, right?  It's the EQ that requires power, right?

Offline DWBass

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 04:42:23 PM »
Some pickups are active and may have a pre-amp built in or in the control panel where the knobs and battery are.
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Offline MikeGee

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 05:55:24 PM »
Sorry Mike I don't believe that is correct is correct. I have the Schecter Stilletto Studio 6 with the same electronics as the 5. The pre amp and the pickup are one unit the 18 volts is to supply each pickup with 9 volts each. I this because I am planning on changing the pickup to barts soon and the tech a my local music shop said If I did it and I wanted to keep the bass active I had to have the pre amp installed the same time as the pickups. I verified this by checking the web site. Here is the wiring pdf:

http://www.schecterguitars.com/schematic/schecter_STILLETTO_STUDIO_4_5_6_8.pdf

 8)



well there you have it. It's active pups.

Offline ddwilkins

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2007, 08:37:33 PM »
Sorry Mike I don't believe that is correct is correct. I have the Schecter Stilletto Studio 6 with the same electronics as the 5. The pre amp and the pickup are one unit the 18 volts is to supply each pickup with 9 volts each. I this because I am planning on changing the pickup to barts soon and the tech a my local music shop said If I did it and I wanted to keep the bass active I had to have the pre amp installed the same time as the pickups. I verified this by checking the web site. Here is the wiring pdf:

http://www.schecterguitars.com/schematic/schecter_STILLETTO_STUDIO_4_5_6_8.pdf

 8)


Actually, the EMG-HZs are passive, your tech is wrong. The 18 volts is strictly for the preamp.
http://www.emginc.com/displayproducts.asp?section=Bass&categoryid=31
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Offline gambit23435

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2007, 10:37:43 PM »
Actually, the EMG-HZs are passive, your tech is wrong. The 18 volts is strictly for the preamp.
http://www.emginc.com/displayproducts.asp?section=Bass&categoryid=31


All I know is when I looked in the control cavity of the my bass I don't see a preamp circuit like a sadowsky, bartolini, or aguilar. Which means the pre amp is built in the pickup. This in my technical mind makes them  "ACTIVE". If I can not take the battery out and play my bass that mean these pickups are not passive. 

 8)
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Offline BimmerFan99

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2007, 11:57:29 PM »
Actually, the EMG-HZs are passive, your tech is wrong. The 18 volts is strictly for the preamp.
http://www.emginc.com/displayproducts.asp?section=Bass&categoryid=31


That's what I was getting at...

----

According to EMG's spec sheet on the EMG-HZ line, the pickups are totally passive because there are no batteries or preamps/EQs in schematics.
http://www.emginc.com/downloads/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-35-40-45.pdf

The reason why you get no sound when you take out the batteries is because Schecter added an active EQ into the circuitry.  It seems that without batteries, the signal is making it from the pickups, to the blend and volume pots and then to the EQ.  But, I'm thinking that if the EQ has no power, it's not going to process or send out any signal whatsoever.

To get sound out of the Studio bass without batteries, you'd have to rewire the bass with a toggle switch that will bypass both the EQ and batteries.

Offline ddwilkins

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2007, 09:02:14 AM »
That's what I was getting at...

----

According to EMG's spec sheet on the EMG-HZ line, the pickups are totally passive because there are no batteries or preamps/EQs in schematics.
http://www.emginc.com/downloads/wiringdiagrams/EMGHZ-35-40-45.pdf

The reason why you get no sound when you take out the batteries is because Schecter added an active EQ into the circuitry.  It seems that without batteries, the signal is making it from the pickups, to the blend and volume pots and then to the EQ.  But, I'm thinking that if the EQ has no power, it's not going to process or send out any signal whatsoever.

To get sound out of the Studio bass without batteries, you'd have to rewire the bass with a toggle switch that will bypass both the EQ and batteries.


That's true. The way it is setup, the passive pickups run through the active preamp, so without the battery, there is no sound. Now, with my bartolini preamp, I can get an active or passive sound now, where I couldn't with the EMG. I have the Schecter Elite 5, so I know the schematic, since I performed the surgery on my bass myself. Gambit, once you make the switch over to Barts, you'll definately tell a difference in the tone of the bass. These basses really dig the Bartolini electronics. I have the active/passive preamp in my bass now with passive pickups. I know it may sound confusing, but get with a tech that really knows electronics. Obviously, the tech you went to doesn't know, so I wouldn't let him perform the switch if it was me. I got all my advice from www.bestbassgear.com. I forgot the name of the person I talked to, but he told me everything. He'll be able to explain the workings of passive pickups with an active preamp.
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Offline floaded27

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2007, 09:21:21 AM »
question dd, i was thinkin about putting in a new preamp (probably Aguilar) in my Custom 5, but not changing the pickups (i actually wanted to see what the EMGs will give me with a new preamp before i go out and spend on pickups too). will i not be able to do this because of the EMG's circuitry you pointed out?
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Offline ddwilkins

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Re: 9volt vs. 18volt
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2007, 10:10:21 AM »
question dd, i was thinkin about putting in a new preamp (probably Aguilar) in my Custom 5, but not changing the pickups (i actually wanted to see what the EMGs will give me with a new preamp before i go out and spend on pickups too). will i not be able to do this because of the EMG's circuitry you pointed out?

You'll be able to use the EMG's with another preamp. Actually I had the EMG's with my Bart preamp before I put in the bart pickups. The sound did change substantially, but it still wasn't what I wanted. Spector uses the EMG-HZ pickups with another preamp in their basses. My friend had his with an Aguilar preamp.
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