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Author Topic: disapointment  (Read 6696 times)

Offline fbass

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disapointment
« on: October 31, 2007, 05:27:59 PM »
THIS IS JUST A RANT!!!


anyway is anybody else  disapointed with the bass players on the gospel albums that have been put out lately. to me they are just not cutting it they dont do anything that makes me rewind or whoop or anything. after i hear anything they do i know exactly wat it is and after listening to the whole cd i know that i could have cut a much better session (im gonna regret that one lol) a perfect example is marvin sapps thirsty its a GREAT  cd the whole band is killin very tasteful i listen to it all the time (for keys and drums) i feel as if swol could have did a much better job on that cd i understand the bass player is supposed to  b solid but that doesnt mean u cant have any feel, its so plain and boring. another cd is bruce parhams newest project trent derriuex and mikey  sound great  but the bass player was so bland he could have made the music sound alot better... but thank god for noel jones cd. the bass player is killin why cant everybody cut a session like that if u dont believe me go listen to track 14 and i mean listen. he kills it great feel placement grooves and technique its bananas. does anybody else feel the same way?

Offline uriahsmusic

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2007, 07:08:20 PM »
...I feel ya on this!...But I know they are not allowed to do what they want!....For many artists it is a royalty issue!....If taken to court and it is determined that that was a part that was a major contribution to the whole project...there could be issues!....many artist also want a part that is easily reproduced live!...I criticize every guitar part that I hear! ::)

Offline BassMan2000

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2007, 07:16:05 PM »
Listen to the style of the song.
Marvin Sapp songs are mostly Piano soundings.
They do not require runs and riff. The Bass lines are
tastefully done.

I listen to Andrew Gouche and some of his song he plays in the pocket.

Offline hands5

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2007, 09:59:51 AM »
THIS IS JUST A RANT!!!


anyway is anybody else  disapointed with the bass players on the gospel albums that have been put out lately. to me they are just not cutting it they dont do anything that makes me rewind or whoop or anything. after i hear anything they do i know exactly wat it is and after listening to the whole cd i know that i could have cut a much better session (im gonna regret that one lol) a perfect example is marvin sapps thirsty its a GREAT  cd the whole band is killin very tasteful i listen to it all the time (for keys and drums) i feel as if swol could have did a much better job on that cd i understand the bass player is supposed to  b solid but that doesnt mean u cant have any feel, its so plain and boring. another cd is bruce parhams newest project trent derriuex and mikey  sound great  but the bass player was so bland he could have made the music sound alot better... but thank god for noel jones cd. the bass player is killin why cant everybody cut a session like that if u dont believe me go listen to track 14 and i mean listen. he kills it great feel placement grooves and technique its bananas. does anybody else feel the same way?
Sometimes less is more my brother. I have all 3 of these CD's  and the playing is great on all of them,however I find  the bass player on Noel Jones CD  is ALOT ! bussier ( more than what's required IMHO,nonetheless he's obviously very good) than of Marvin and Bruce's bass player.

Offline DWBass

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2007, 11:11:38 AM »
I've done quite a lot of studio work and the 'less is more' approach is a standard and welcomed.
"Never Leave Home Without Your Groove On" :)

Offline twest45

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2007, 12:05:59 PM »
I've been around bass players and bands that have recorded lots of CD's.  The recording are meant to be simple.  Any recording band will tell you that.  If you want licks, and runs and all that stuff go to a concert.  That's when the musicians let loose.  But on the recordings musicians mostly stay in pocket and keep it nice and simple.  ( Except for the drummers IMO).  But that's just how the gospel recording business is.
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Offline jeremyr

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2007, 02:02:16 PM »
THIS IS JUST A RANT!!!


anyway is anybody else  disapointed with the bass players on the gospel albums that have been put out lately. to me they are just not cutting it they dont do anything that makes me rewind or whoop or anything. after i hear anything they do i know exactly wat it is and after listening to the whole cd i know that i could have cut a much better session (im gonna regret that one lol) a perfect example is marvin sapps thirsty its a GREAT  cd the whole band is killin very tasteful i listen to it all the time (for keys and drums) i feel as if swol could have did a much better job on that cd i understand the bass player is supposed to  b solid but that doesnt mean u cant have any feel, its so plain and boring. another cd is bruce parhams newest project trent derriuex and mikey  sound great  but the bass player was so bland he could have made the music sound alot better... but thank god for noel jones cd. the bass player is killin why cant everybody cut a session like that if u dont believe me go listen to track 14 and i mean listen. he kills it great feel placement grooves and technique its bananas. does anybody else feel the same way?

I have a rant about your rant...lol

You're tooooooooooooo caught up in what "you as a bass player" or whoever else is the one that's playing could be doing. How do you know that Marvin didn't tell Swol "I want you to lay back a bit, because I want this to be pure praise and worship" which is what that CD is. 

I personally think that Swol did an excellent job on that CD because it fit the mood and whole feel of the session.

You don't have to have all the tricks in the bag to be a great player and I think that's what you're caught up in.

How man "xxxxx" fills can you do or "how many times can i put this muted tripplet lick inbetween the lines".

Don't get so caught up in "tricks".  Play what the holy spirit has you to play *and i hope that EVERYON prays before they play and/or practice!!!*.

How do we know the holy spirit didn't tell Swol "hey play this because I'm going to move upon 500 peoples hears right at this moment where you cut out and let the music breathe".

Now don't get me wrong, super techniques and fills are great, but if you do them all the time then they mean almost nothing.
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline ddwilkins

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2007, 10:13:24 PM »
I have a rant about your rant...lol

You're tooooooooooooo caught up in what "you as a bass player" or whoever else is the one that's playing could be doing. How do you know that Marvin didn't tell Swol "I want you to lay back a bit, because I want this to be pure praise and worship" which is what that CD is. 

I personally think that Swol did an excellent job on that CD because it fit the mood and whole feel of the session.

You don't have to have all the tricks in the bag to be a great player and I think that's what you're caught up in.

How man "xxxxx" fills can you do or "how many times can i put this muted tripplet lick inbetween the lines".

Don't get so caught up in "tricks".  Play what the holy spirit has you to play *and i hope that EVERYON prays before they play and/or practice!!!*.

How do we know the holy spirit didn't tell Swol "hey play this because I'm going to move upon 500 peoples hears right at this moment where you cut out and let the music breathe".

Now don't get me wrong, super techniques and fills are great, but if you do them all the time then they mean almost nothing.

Thanks for saying this. Artist have a taste and they know what they want. Some people don't like the way Andrew Gouche plays, but I love it. I also like the way Jackie Clark plays which is on the other end of the spectrum from Gouche. You can't always play with tricks and if you do, you won't get gigs that way. First and foremost, you must be able to lock into a groove and hold it. Listen to some ol' school James Brown. The band was grooving especially the bass players.
Keep God first and he'll do the rest!!!

Offline dhagler

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2007, 01:25:41 AM »
I haven't been playing as long as some of the members here, but I have been listening to music my whole life.  A bass player's first responsibility is to, along with the drummer, hold down the rhythm section.  A bass player's second responsibility is add runs, grooves, etc., in places where those additions will compliment the song.

And let's not forget the role of the producer in directing the musicians and vocalists.  I am not a professional musician (those that are like DWBass please chime in) but I suspect what they play has to meet the producer's approval.

Just my four cents. :)

Offline Ken Felder

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2007, 03:21:18 AM »
I've worked with some muscians who have done live recordings with some of gospel greats.  these cats will tell you that you are only there to contribute not take over the show.  Somtimes when you put to much in a song it hard  to get the mesage. yea we as bass players are amazed by   wooten, clark , miller, but thats stuff  you practice on your own time. i know some guys are very skill full
but no one calling them to play on their live recording. you cant go wrong with a solid pockett. thats what the industry is really looking for these days.

Offline momuzik

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2007, 06:51:18 AM »
Larry Graham has a "youtube" clip about bass players keeping it simple. If another instrument was taking lead, the bass would stay in the background. If you have a lead singer, then all the instruments would be in the background except for maybe during a refrain or something like that.

Offline jeremyr

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2007, 08:33:17 AM »
you cant go wrong with a solid pockett. thats what the industry is really looking for these days.

A prime example of this is Maurice Fitzgerald. No don't get me wrong the man can play, but what's amazing about him is his feel and groove.  He really lays in the pocket and you don't see him doing runs all the time.  Just every so often if he can squeeze them in. 

People wonder why he gets so many gigs, it's his feel and groove.  His groove is so tight you can tell just from the groove if it's him playing. 
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2007, 10:32:38 AM »
I think the idea of keeping it simple applies to other instruments as well.  Can you imagine a producer hiring Eddie Van Halen to play some simple chords and fills?  No way, you call a guy like that when you want something that's up front and center where that particular instrument happens to be the focus of the song (so you can call Eddie up when you're ready to rercord the solo on your remake of "Beat It").  But unless you're recording an instrumental album along the lines of the Electrik Band, most of the music is in the backgrund unless you get to play a solo. 
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Offline mjl422

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2007, 02:08:21 PM »
A prime example of this is Maurice Fitzgerald. No don't get me wrong the man can play, but what's amazing about him is his feel and groove.  He really lays in the pocket and you don't see him doing runs all the time.  Just every so often if he can squeeze them in. 

People wonder why he gets so many gigs, it's his feel and groove.  His groove is so tight you can tell just from the groove if it's him playing. 

Another prime example is Nathan East and he can play his butt off too but, check out his credits and compare them to some of the virtuosos.

Offline fbass

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2007, 03:20:54 PM »
i know that when u play a session ur supposed to keep it simple less is more i know all of that im not a beginner but all of these cds had spots where he coulda have done something tasteful im not sayin i want richard bona solo in the middle of a song but i want somethin. on bruce and marvins cd it feels as if the bass player is sitting there reading a chart he has no feeling in it. a good example of a bass player who played the music tastefully and was still pocket is sharay reed on maurette brown clarks one god album aside from the track one god where he went for blood he played the album pocket but he had feel the whole time as if he was chopping it just felt good. or another example is jon jon webb on myron butlers new album on track four. he was a bit excessive but everything he did was simple tasteful and well placed.... very well placed. he wasnt just chopping to chop he did wat he did  and made it fit the song. both of those guys on  either of the projects and it would have been better. if u dont believe me listen to sharay reed on one god or really listen to joel smith lets say on karen clarks glorious he was pocket but he did little things throughout the track that could be considered chops blah blah blah that u wouldnt even notice unless u paid attention to it. and another example of a great bass player sneakin stuff in is terry tribbett if u dont believe go pick up jill scott 826+ thats a pocket gig but all throughout the cd he had so much feel and he had his little sneaky stuff in there too. along with great technique

Offline DWBass

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2007, 04:40:35 PM »
Another prime example is Nathan East and he can play his butt off too but, check out his credits and compare them to some of the virtuosos.

You mean OTHER virtuosos! Nathan is a virtuoso! You'd be surprised what Nathan can do but rarely displays it!
"Never Leave Home Without Your Groove On" :)

Offline dhagler

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2007, 05:12:22 PM »
Permit me a basketball analogy.  Who would you rather have on your team, Tim Duncan or Kobe Bryant?

Offline jeremyr

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2007, 10:27:07 PM »
i know that when u play a session ur supposed to keep it simple less is more i know all of that im not a beginner but all of these cds had spots where he coulda have done something tasteful im not sayin i want richard bona solo in the middle of a song but i want somethin. on bruce and marvins cd it feels as if the bass player is sitting there reading a chart he has no feeling in it. a good example of a bass player who played the music tastefully and was still pocket is sharay reed on maurette brown clarks one god album aside from the track one god where he went for blood he played the album pocket but he had feel the whole time as if he was chopping it just felt good. or another example is jon jon webb on myron butlers new album on track four. he was a bit excessive but everything he did was simple tasteful and well placed.... very well placed. he wasnt just chopping to chop he did wat he did  and made it fit the song. both of those guys on  either of the projects and it would have been better. if u dont believe me listen to sharay reed on one god or really listen to joel smith lets say on karen clarks glorious he was pocket but he did little things throughout the track that could be considered chops blah blah blah that u wouldnt even notice unless u paid attention to it. and another example of a great bass player sneakin stuff in is terry tribbett if u dont believe go pick up jill scott 826+ thats a pocket gig but all throughout the cd he had so much feel and he had his little sneaky stuff in there too. along with great technique

everything that you just stated is very subjective doc. 

Sharay is sharay on any song that he plays that has a swing to it.  You're going to hear sharay.  Swol is Swol no matter what song he plays.  So on and so forth.  If you want to hear Sharay then buy the CD with Sharay on it.
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Offline EricT

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2007, 04:08:34 AM »
A prime example of this is Maurice Fitzgerald. No don't get me wrong the man can play, but what's amazing about him is his feel and groove.  He really lays in the pocket and you don't see him doing runs all the time.  Just every so often if he can squeeze them in. 

People wonder why he gets so many gigs, it's his feel and groove.  His groove is so tight you can tell just from the groove if it's him playing. 

Being a drummer, I don't want my bass player doing alot of stuff. I'd rather have him in the pocket with me...the harder we lock togther the better and funkier the pocket is, giving room of the keys to do their job. Many times I hear people say the same complaint about drummers "why don't he use alot of fills and tricks"...well at the end of the day it's all about what the gig is paying you to do. Jeff Davis didn't make a name for himself for his fills, everyone knows Jeff Davis for his phat pockets...(even thouhgh his fills are amazing.)
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Offline dhagler

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Re: disapointment
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2007, 10:11:13 AM »
everything that you just stated is very subjective doc. 


Well stated.  We all have opinions, and we are blessed to have a forum to express them.  The other benefit is newbies like me are learning about bassists like Sharay, Andrew, and Maurice. :)
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