Topic: disapointment (Read 6794 times)

B3Wannabe · « **Reply #20 on:** November 04, 2007, 03:49:35 PM »

Why criticize someone else's playing, when they are obviously getting paid to do it? Someone likes it. I don't care, your points are mute. If you could've done it better, contact those artists for the gigs. Talking changes nothing.

ssabass · « **Reply #21 on:** November 04, 2007, 05:47:43 PM »

In some sessions a few bass players are called to do what they do best. example when Marcus Miller, Maurice Fitz, Andrew Gouche are called, I guarantee you they have Cart Blanch. Listen to some of their work. Now on the other hand you have bass players that are called just to get the job done & thats it. They are asked to just play what fits. So thier hands are tied, they just give the producer what they want. I myself like both scenarios. The first one, the bass player puts his own stamp on the song & you know immediatly who that bass player is. But when the average bass player has to learn the song, or when that song is done live, to keep they same flavor of the song, you have to actually play the song almost ver batum, with a little variations. Now the other scenario, gives you more room to work with. Some producer like to leave some space, so when played live, who ever the bass player maybe can add his own fills when needed. so don't be disapointed. Look at it as, if you ever get a chance to play any of Marvins song or any other songs with that same philosophy, you have the room to make that bass part come to life with your own embelishments.

hands5 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 05, 2007, 08:54:52 AM »

Quote from: mjl422 on November 02, 2007, 02:08:21 PM

Another prime example is Nathan East and he can play his butt off too but, check out his credits and compare them to some of the virtuosos.

Exactly

hands5 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 05, 2007, 09:06:01 AM »

Quote from: fbass on November 02, 2007, 03:20:54 PM

i know that when u play a session ur supposed to keep it simple less is more i know all of that im not a beginner but all of these cds had spots where he coulda have done something tasteful im not sayin i want richard bona solo in the middle of a song but i want somethin. on bruce and marvins cd it feels as if the bass player is sitting there reading a chart he has no feeling in it. a good example of a bass player who played the music tastefully and was still pocket is sharay reed on maurette brown clarks one god album aside from the track one god where he went for blood he played the album pocket but he had feel the whole time as if he was chopping it just felt good. or another example is jon jon webb on myron butlers new album on track four. he was a bit excessive but everything he did was simple tasteful and well placed.... very well placed. he wasnt just chopping to chop he did wat he did and made it fit the song. both of those guys on either of the projects and it would have been better. if u dont believe me listen to sharay reed on one god or really listen to joel smith lets say on karen clarks glorious he was pocket but he did little things throughout the track that could be considered chops blah blah blah that u wouldnt even notice unless u paid attention to it. and another example of a great bass player sneakin stuff in is terry tribbett if u dont believe go pick up jill scott 826+ thats a pocket gig but all throughout the cd he had so much feel and he had his little sneaky stuff in there too. along with great technique

I once was told as a young musician coming up that there will be times that "you shouldn't interupt Silence or Space of the music....Just be a slave to the rythm.

fbass · « **Reply #24 on:** November 05, 2007, 10:30:58 AM »

ok guys i know wat it takes to get and keep a gig ive played with everyone from chrisette michele lil mo and carl thomas to timothy wright maurette brown clark natalie wilson marvin sapp vashawn mitchell and doobie powell with alot more in between. i know that the producer has alot to do with it. my first time with carl i was dumb founded because im chillin playin pocket and they are yellin at me to chop up the whole song im just sayin they could have played the music better

mjl422 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 05, 2007, 12:40:38 PM »

Quote from: DWBass on November 02, 2007, 04:40:35 PM

You mean OTHER virtuosos! Nathan is a virtuoso! You'd be surprised what Nathan can do but rarely displays it!

You're right, I did mean OTHER virtuosos. I saw Nathan live with Fourplay once and he's a beast. I wasn't trying to diminish his skills in any way. I would love to know half of what he knows.

BigFoot_BigThumb · « **Reply #26 on:** November 05, 2007, 01:05:34 PM »

Quote from: uriahsmusic on October 31, 2007, 07:08:20 PM

...I feel ya on this!...But I know they are not allowed to do what they want!....For many artists it is a royalty issue!....If taken to court and it is determined that that was a part that was a major contribution to the whole project...there could be issues!....many artist also want a part that is easily reproduced live!...I criticize every guitar part that I hear!

Musicians have to give the producer of the project what they want. If he/she wants a simple approach, then that musician can either give it to them or be replaced in the studio. That can override even what the artist wants sometimes. I have heard bass players be waaaaaay to busy on a song. The basic groove can be very powerful if you let it. I did a session as a drummer with a well-known producer/writer a few years back. He came in, took one look at my kit and had me take all of the toms(I had five toms) except for one off. That forced me to be more creative with less, and it made me concentrate on the groove. May have been the same thing applied towards the bass in this scenario in which you speak of.

I do have to correct you on one thing, musicians/sidemen do not get a royalty on a recording unless they had something to do with the writing/composition or production. So that is not an issue at all.

BigFoot_BigThumb · « **Reply #27 on:** November 05, 2007, 01:10:21 PM »

I guess I should have read the other responses before I replied. I think the point has been made.

johnflindsey · « **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2007, 06:45:02 AM »

Quote from: fbass on October 31, 2007, 05:27:59 PM

THIS IS JUST A RANT!!!

What CD are you listening too that's by Noel Jones that has this killin bass player? I bought one and I didn't hear nothing that was so great about the bass lines, unless i bought the wrong one.

anyway is anybody else disapointed with the bass players on the gospel albums that have been put out lately. to me they are just not cutting it they dont do anything that makes me rewind or whoop or anything. after i hear anything they do i know exactly wat it is and after listening to the whole cd i know that i could have cut a much better session (im gonna regret that one lol) a perfect example is marvin sapps thirsty its a GREAT cd the whole band is killin very tasteful i listen to it all the time (for keys and drums) i feel as if swol could have did a much better job on that cd i understand the bass player is supposed to b solid but that doesnt mean u cant have any feel, its so plain and boring. another cd is bruce parhams newest project trent derriuex and mikey sound great but the bass player was so bland he could have made the music sound alot better... but thank god for noel jones cd. the bass player is killin why cant everybody cut a session like that if u dont believe me go listen to track 14 and i mean listen. he kills it great feel placement grooves and technique its bananas. does anybody else feel the same way?

floaded27 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 06, 2007, 12:46:26 PM »

i kinda feel this issue but in a different perspective. i dont find it bland or boring, i just feel like its lacking. Not that the music is, but because I would like to hear some things that i could learn from. I can be basic and stay in the pocket, but when the feel for me to come out is there, what do i do? The easiest way to find new ideas (because if i had all the ideas in the world i wouldnt need to listen to music) is to listen to someone who is more skilled and creative than you are. But since you dont know these people in person, you gotta listen to a song with them on it. And nothin is worse when u lookin for something and they do just about what ur in the habit of doing. "I do that every sunday." so im looking for something else. And yeah, somebodys gonna say if "Player X" does it too, it must be a good lick/riff/groove/run. Yeah, but thats all i got (i know "Player X" has more stuff), and if im tired of playing it, im sure as heck the people tired of hearing me play it. so i understand if thats what the producer or the artist wants, but if im looking for something or ideas to enhance my playing and i dont feel i get anything, im disappointed. period. but thats just my own opinion and i am entitled to it.

its not in the same context as the original post.

jeremyr · « **Reply #30 on:** November 06, 2007, 05:01:05 PM »

Quote from: floaded27 on November 06, 2007, 12:46:26 PM

i kinda feel this issue but in a different perspective. i dont find it bland or boring, i just feel like its lacking. Not that the music is, but because I would like to hear some things that i could learn from. I can be basic and stay in the pocket, but when the feel for me to come out is there, what do i do? The easiest way to find new ideas (because if i had all the ideas in the world i wouldnt need to listen to music) is to listen to someone who is more skilled and creative than you are. But since you dont know these people in person, you gotta listen to a song with them on it. And nothin is worse when u lookin for something and they do just about what ur in the habit of doing. "I do that every sunday." so im looking for something else. And yeah, somebodys gonna say if "Player X" does it too, it must be a good lick/riff/groove/run. Yeah, but thats all i got (i know "Player X" has more stuff), and if im tired of playing it, im sure as heck the people tired of hearing me play it. so i understand if thats what the producer or the artist wants, but if im looking for something or ideas to enhance my playing and i dont feel i get anything, im disappointed. period. but thats just my own opinion and i am entitled to it.
its not in the same context as the original post.

why not look inside yourself to come up with new ideas?

dhagler · « **Reply #31 on:** November 07, 2007, 10:45:03 AM »

Quote from: floaded27 on November 06, 2007, 12:46:26 PM

i kinda feel this issue but in a different perspective. i dont find it bland or boring, i just feel like its lacking. Not that the music is, but because I would like to hear some things that i could learn from. I can be basic and stay in the pocket, but when the feel for me to come out is there, what do i do? The easiest way to find new ideas (because if i had all the ideas in the world i wouldnt need to listen to music) is to listen to someone who is more skilled and creative than you are. But since you dont know these people in person, you gotta listen to a song with them on it. And nothin is worse when u lookin for something and they do just about what ur in the habit of doing. "I do that every sunday." so im looking for something else. And yeah, somebodys gonna say if "Player X" does it too, it must be a good lick/riff/groove/run. Yeah, but thats all i got (i know "Player X" has more stuff), and if im tired of playing it, im sure as heck the people tired of hearing me play it. so i understand if thats what the producer or the artist wants, but if im looking for something or ideas to enhance my playing and i dont feel i get anything, im disappointed. period. but thats just my own opinion and i am entitled to it.

its not in the same context as the original post.

I can appreciate what floaded is saying. Once you learn a song a certain way you might like to hear how someone else might do the same song. And let's face it, you've already heard what the original musician on the song has done (in fact you've already added your own flavor to it). So what do you do? You try to network with other musicians in your community. You go to as many singings, programs, concerts, services as you can, and you network with the bass players there. Why? Because they're local, and you stand a much greater chance of shedding with someone from your own city than you would shedding with someone on a 20-city tour in town for just one night.

And jeremy is right too: sometimes our best stuff is right there inside of us waiting to be discovered.

trsmooth · « **Reply #32 on:** November 07, 2007, 07:24:17 PM »

well i know im a little late with it but i agree with what everyone else siad....PLAY THE GIG FOR WHAT IT IS!!!!!!! those guys are where they are because they can adapt to any kind of gig and not overshdow the music. us as young bass players are playing in a generation where bass players are out in the forefront.... A lot more than bass players were 30-40 years ago. Where slapping, tapping and crazy licks are praised more than just holding a simple groove. But learn to appreciate the "simple stuff" because it paved the way for us to do what we do now.

twest45 · « **Reply #33 on:** November 07, 2007, 08:44:16 PM »

I'm going to just tell you what my teacher told. If your're at a musical and let's say it's 2 different bass player. Bass player 1 is doing all kinds of crazy licks and chords and everything when he's playing for his choir. Bass player one has the whole musician corner ( those of you who are musicians and go to musicals know the musician corner) and audiance cheering him on and everything. Then come bass player 2. He holds down the bottom and does his part in his band and maybe throw in a few licks to show he's a beast too. When the concert is over, the head of another choir comes over to talk to bass player 1 and 2. He gives bass player 1 his props and tells him he killed and all that stuff. Then he goes to bass player 2 and offers him a gig. I've seen this happen with my own eyes more than once. Doing your job gets you gigs and money. Doing all that crazy other stuff gets you comments on youtube and thats about it. My teacher can do all that crazy stuff but he's mature enough to know not to. As a matter of fact he's the bass player for MS Mass Choir, Dorthy Norwoods new album, Dathan Thigpen and Holy Nation, and others i can't remember. If you listen to Miss Mass you'll think he was your average joe. but go to a shed with him. He can do all that crazy stuff. He told me he had to realize that people want bass players, not a guitar player playing bass, a drummer playing bass, and etc. Because of him, I'm getting more gigs. I've been playin for about 3 yrs now and I guess i'm at the point where he knows i can hold it down. People tell me I remind them of him because I'll do a tight lick and then lay back in the cut. That makes people want more. But I just give them a lil and keep them on the edge of their seats. When he's busy he'll call me to play a gig for him or fill in for him at the Huge church he plays for when he's out of town.

T-Block · « **Reply #34 on:** November 07, 2007, 10:19:18 PM »

Here's some advice that was given to me once: The greatest music in all the world is music so simple that even a baby can play it. Think about it, all those nursery rhymes and stuff like that, those music pieces are some of the greatest pieces in the world. Why? Cuz of the simplicity. If the person who created those got paid everytime somebody used their nursery rhyme, they would rich beyond imagination.

If all you do is listen to music for tricks, then you should really rethink your mindset of being a musician. It ain't about all that, it's about glorifying God with your talent.

THE THIRD · « **Reply #35 on:** November 07, 2007, 10:29:50 PM »

It is cool to be disappointed with music. some people think just because its main stream or that it is a big gig its awesome. thatz not tru...sometimes simple is pretty wack. over hype things get the most criticism.

T-Block · « **Reply #36 on:** November 07, 2007, 10:36:37 PM »

Quote from: THE THIRD on November 07, 2007, 10:29:50 PM

It is cool to be disappointed with music. some people think just because its main stream or that it is a big gig its awesome. thatz not tru...sometimes simple is pretty wack. over hype things get the most criticism.

So, now you supposed to be seeking glory and recognition from other people? What a shame.

THE THIRD · « **Reply #37 on:** November 07, 2007, 11:12:44 PM »

that is the revelation you got from that bro thatz a shame. what chump lives for man glory after your first real fight thatz out the window..anyone can have ones opinion on any thing whether someone thinks its awesome or not. especially if it comes with a price tag.

B3Wannabe · « **Reply #38 on:** November 08, 2007, 07:44:29 AM »

DWBass · « **Reply #39 on:** November 08, 2007, 07:54:03 AM »

The key to becoming a complete musician is knowing when to play for the song and not for yourself. It should not be the bass players intention to draw attention to himself! If you have the gig, it already means everyone knows you can play! Laying in the pocket and grooving seems to be a thing of the past and I'll be honest and say it annoys us 'older, experienced' cats a bit. Yeah, I'm amazed at the skills of you younger players but why do you have to show it at every opportunity. Gigs are not 'Sheds' and it's inappropriate to 'shed' at a gig. Just my humble opinion.

In fact, I play a gig now with all young church musicians (I'm the old man of the band) and these guys just don't know when to turn off the 'shedding' (mainly the drummers)!

Author Topic: disapointment (Read 6794 times)