VOLUNTEER OR PAID MUSICIAN?

[E.R.]

This type of discussion always sparks another question for me. Since the musicians get paid, should all the members of the praise team be paid? What about the choir? Should ushers, deacons, security, sign ministry, camera crew, sound techs be paid? Where do you draw the line? How can you pay some and not all that are offering their gifts to the church?

Good question.

[under13]

This type of discussion always sparks another question for me. Since the musicians get paid, should all the members of the praise team be paid? What about the choir? Should ushers, deacons, security, sign ministry, camera crew, sound techs be paid? Where do you draw the line? How can you pay some and not all that are offering their gifts to the church?

Depends on how much time they put into what they do. I dont think most of those people you listed, spend hours each week practicing.

[sugabear]

Depends on how much time they put into what they do. I dont think most of those people you listed, spend hours each week practicing.

Most definitely the choir and praise spend nearly as much time rehearsing as the musicians. If it's not time it's most definitely energy. I can't think of a church right now that's paying their praise team and their choir members. Same thing goes for the sound ministry. They're there usually as much as the band a singers are.

[under13]

Most definitely the choir and praise spend nearly as much time rehearsing as the musicians. If it's not time it's most definitely energy. I can't think of a church right now that's paying their praise team and their choir members. Same thing goes for the sound ministry. They're there usually as much as the band a singers are.

But look at the Expenses we have. We musicians Spend THOUSANDS of dollars on instruments, Spend hours each week OUTSIDE of church preparing to learn new songs and practicing old ones. I dont think ushers go home and practice handing out programs and opening doors. I dont think (most) camera operators spend 4 years going to school to to serve in the church (most musicians dont either)

But most importantly, None of those people do that as thier profession or occupation. We got rent to pay and families to feed. You always hear them condeming you for playing secular music, but then they dont wanna pay you. Like I said b4, if pastors get paid, so should thier musicians

[dude-on-drums]

You can always tell when people come in a thread posting their comments without reading what was already said!   

[QCdrummer]

But look at the Expenses we have. We musicians Spend THOUSANDS of dollars on instruments, Spend hours each week OUTSIDE of church preparing to learn new songs and practicing old ones. I dont think ushers go home and practice handing out programs and opening doors. I dont think (most) camera operators spend 4 years going to school to to serve in the church (most musicians dont either)

But most importantly, None of those people do that as thier profession or occupation. We got rent to pay and families to feed. You always hear them condeming you for playing secular music, but then they dont wanna pay you. Like I said b4, if pastors get paid, so should thier musicians

Under13, I like your thinking man. I agree with everything you said. You basically took the words out of my mouth. Most people on the praise team either 1, do it as a hobby and don't like singing all that much, or 2, decided that they liked singing on Saturday and wanted to joined the Praise team on Sunday. Or 3, if they have been singing all thier lives then I'm sure they are getting paid by somebody somewhere to sing something!  Most of us have been playing drums all our lives and we take this very seriously. It is not just a hobby, or something to do while we are at church. Its much deeper than that.

[sugabear]

But look at the Expenses we have. We musicians Spend THOUSANDS of dollars on instruments, Spend hours each week OUTSIDE of church preparing to learn new songs and practicing old ones. I dont think ushers go home and practice handing out programs and opening doors. I dont think (most) camera operators spend 4 years going to school to to serve in the church (most musicians dont either)

But most importantly, None of those people do that as thier profession or occupation. We got rent to pay and families to feed. You always hear them condeming you for playing secular music, but then they dont wanna pay you. Like I said b4, if pastors get paid, so should thier musicians

I've been playing drums for almost twenty years now and I've never been in a paying situation at a church. I wouldn't be mad if I was passed a couple of dollars, but it doesn't matter at all because I enjoy serving. I'm currently going to school for audio and I'll be graduating next month. Now I don't feel led to be a part of the sound ministry for free because my skill is something I've invested in. The price for my education is compensation in this area, so I guess I understand where you're coming from as well. I guess the best thing to do is use Godly wisdom in these types of situations.

[JFunky]

Since the musicians get paid, should all the members of the praise team be paid? What about the choir? Should ushers, deacons, security, sign ministry, camera crew, sound techs be paid?

...here's an answer for you.  (I'm sure Sheen will have his point of view.lol)

1 Chronicles 23

The Divisions of the Levites
 
1. So when David was old and full of days, he made his son Solomon king over Israel.

2. And he gathered together all the leaders of Israel, with the priests and the Levites.

3. Now the Levites were numbered from the age of thirty years and above; and the number of individual males was thirty-eight thousand.

4. Of these, twenty-four thousand were to look after the work of the house of the LORD, six thousand were officers and judges,

5. four thousand were gatekeepers, and four thousand praised the LORD with musical instruments, “which I made,” said David, “for giving praise.”


2 Chronicles 5

12 and the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, and with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets—



...some of you guys aren't going to like this answer but here it goes:  Not all the Levites of the church were "Musicians or Singers" as you can read for yourselves above.  Some were in charge of the "care and maintance" of the Temple. 

...I asked on my first part of this thread if you all thought of yourselves as Levites.  Here's the answer to many of you guys/gals question.  If you do, you will have to understand that the Levites a. "Studied Music from the book of Psalms (written by King David) and played out of the book of PSalms" b. Were in charge of Praise & Worship in the "Temple" c. They "all" got payed/How else were they going to purchase "white linen clothing"? d. They were "Full Time" at the church.  In other words, "they were Ministers of Music."  Their Lifestyle was Worship.  They didn't go out and play with the hottest Secular Jewish Reggae Artist. lol


...so, are we worthy of making "our" money honestly from the church?  Is our Lifestyle a life of a True Worshipper? 


...some of us are living the lifestyle of a True Worshipper and yet we see that we are getting payed by seeing Lives come to Christ, Families that were destroyed come together and the Sun go up and down each day.  Some of us are sent on special assignments to play at so and so's church or Christian concert with minimal pay being $50 and God rewards us with $2,000 and many restored Lives after it.  

...my advice to all of you is this:

Matthew 6:33 (New King James Version)
 
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.



...these are my beliefs and as of today, I'm still seeing God bless my Life and Family in a great way.  You guys do whatever you want.   At the end of the day, I know what God wants from "me" and know where His Holy Spirit is guiding "me."  I know one thing, my eyes are set on God and not the cash.  

...by the way, I'm not a Jewish Levite but I am a Levite in the Spirit and I have a job to do.  I can only speak for "me".

[JFunky]

...as for the "Tithing Thing"....

...again, if you guys don't want to do it, then don't.  No one is making you.  I answer to the Lord and not to my Pastor...

Malachi 3:10
 
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
      "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
      "In tithes and offerings.

9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.

10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
      That there may be food in My house,
      And try Me now in this,”
      Says the LORD of hosts,

      “ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
      And pour out for you such blessing
      That there will not be room enough to receive it.
       11 “ And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
      So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
      Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,”
      Says the LORD of hosts;
       12 And all nations will call you blessed,
      For you will be a delightful land,”
      Says the LORD of hosts.


...God is telling "me" that He will bless me in such a way that there will not be room enough to receive it and that "everyone" will call me blessed!?

...I think that "I'm" not going to steal from God and give "Him", not the "Pastors", 10% of "my" earnings.  The "Pastors" are all accountable for what they do with "His/churches" money.  "I" think I'm accountable for "giving" what belongs to "Him because I don't want to be cursed or be called a "thief" on Judgement Day.  So I'll do it to be on the "Safe" side. LOL

...again, you guys do what you want.

[QCdrummer]

Yeah, I'm with you on the tithes JFunky. When I slipped on paying tithes in one part of my life, my money was getting drained. My car needed to get fixed, extra charges on bills, just little stuff that was slowly taking my money. But when my tithing got back on track, my finances got back on track. It's nothing to play with. But like you said, I don't care what anybody else does with thier money, I just know I'm supposed to do. because I've experienced firsthand what happens when you don't tithe, and what happens when you do.

[E.R.]

...as for the "Tithing Thing"....

...again, if you guys don't want to do it, then don't.  No one is making you.  I answer to the Lord and not to my Pastor...

Malachi 3:10
 
8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me.
      "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?'
      "In tithes and offerings.

9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.

10 Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
      That there may be food in My house,
      And try Me now in this,”
      Says the LORD of hosts,

      “ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven
      And pour out for you such blessing
      That there will not be room enough to receive it.
       11 “ And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes,
      So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground,
      Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,”
      Says the LORD of hosts;
       12 And all nations will call you blessed,
      For you will be a delightful land,”
      Says the LORD of hosts.


...God is telling "me" that He will bless me in such a way that there will not be room enough to receive it and that "everyone" will call me blessed!?

...I think that "I'm" not going to steal from God and give "Him", not the "Pastors", 10% of "my" earnings.  The "Pastors" are all accountable for what they do with "His/churches" money.  "I" think I'm accountable for "giving" what belongs to "Him because I don't want to be cursed or be called a "thief" on Judgement Day.  So I'll do it to be on the "Safe" side. LOL

...again, you guys do what you want.

Thats what I said! 

[JFunky]

Thats what I said! 

...great "unpayed, tithing minds" think alike.   At least I know we're on the same page or in this case, different pages. LOL 

[dude-on-drums]

Whatever dudes. 


Number one.  Like you said JFunky.  All the Levite musicians got paid. 

So if your Pastor considers himself a Levite, then he should pay and if the musician is considered a Levite, then he/she should get paid.  No question about it.  The problem is this.  You guys think youre Jewish.  You dont have the same promises that Jews had.  Gentiles were not told to tithe and they were not promised to be paid musicians in church.  Look at this...

9 You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me.

The bible is clear.  Very clear.  This was in reference to the Jewish Nation.  But do what you like.  Its all in your head.   

[QCdrummer]

"The whole nation of you is cursed".................

So this must be why in some families, The grandparents never had money, the parents never had money, thier kids never had money, and the whole generation is cursed financially because nobody paid  tithes... Makes plenty sense to me!!

But back to the topic...JFunk said it best, "I'd rather just play it safe........."

[dude-on-drums]

I bet you guys cant wait to see those streets of gold too huh?     LOL! 

[fretai03]

***WARNING: GENUINE TITHE QUESTIONS FOLLOW***


Question 1: What happens if the tithes you withhold affect your own family?

I have family in ministry (Dad is a pastor, cousin is a Dean at one of our church schools, Uncle is a teacher at another school, Aunties in administrative positions etc) so I'm struggling with this one.

Question 2: What are the repercussions if you took the 10% of your income, rather than giving it as tithe, you put it into specific ministries of your local church?

E.g. Rather than paying tithe to a church conference where I don't know what's going on, I would rather put that money into my local church youth, sound & audio and children's departments.

Am I even allowed to have that sort of influence on my tithe?

[dude-on-drums]

***WARNING: GENUINE TITHE QUESTIONS FOLLOW***


Question 1: What happens if the tithes you withhold affect your own family?

I have family in ministry (Dad is a pastor, cousin is a Dean at one of our church schools, Uncle is a teacher at another school, Aunties in administrative positions etc) so I'm struggling with this one.

Question 2: What are the repercussions if you took the 10% of your income, rather than giving it as tithe, you put it into specific ministries of your local church?

E.g. Rather than paying tithe to a church conference where I don't know what's going on, I would rather put that money into my local church youth, sound & audio and children's departments.

Am I even allowed to have that sort of influence on my tithe?

First you have to deal with the fact that TITHES are not money.  Look up the biblical definition of a tithe.  Who paid it.  Who recieved it. 


This is Deut 14:22-29   You will never hear this being preached in a church!


 22(A) "You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there,(B) you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil,(C) and the firstborn of your herd and flock,(D) that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because(E) the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 25then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses 26and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And(F) you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27And you shall not neglect(G) the Levite who is within your towns, for(H) he has no portion or inheritance with you.

As you can see, tithes is not money.  It was never money.  How can you sell money for money!   

[Audiocr381ve]

Wow. 

This thread has been most entertaining here at work.

Keep it coming guys 

[Steelpulz]

First you have to deal with the fact that TITHES are not money.  Look up the biblical definition of a tithe.  Who paid it.  Who recieved it. 


This is Deut 14:22-29   You will never hear this being preached in a church!


 22(A) "You shall tithe all the yield of your seed that comes from the field year by year. 23And before the LORD your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there,(B) you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil,(C) and the firstborn of your herd and flock,(D) that you may learn to fear the LORD your God always. 24And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the LORD your God blesses you, because(E) the place is too far from you, which the LORD your God chooses, to set his name there, 25then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the LORD your God chooses 26and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And(F) you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27And you shall not neglect(G) the Levite who is within your towns, for(H) he has no portion or inheritance with you.

As you can see, tithes is not money.  It was never money.  How can you sell money for money!  

Hmmm!!! Imma have to research that. Intersting

[Audiocr381ve]

Extremely interesting. I'm going to seek some wisdom (a second opinion LOL) on this one.