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Author Topic: Circle of 4ths and 5ths  (Read 6527 times)

Offline blacklw234

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Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« on: May 02, 2008, 11:16:07 AM »
God bless those who have already tried to explain this theory, however, can someone break down the circle of 4ths and 5ths to the lowest denominator. I am not a beginner, however I get the feeling if I understand this theory it could take my bass playing to another level. Others have tried to explain it but it seemed to be a little complex in the explanation. So please can somebody be so gracious to simplify this theory. Even if you feel it is a kindergarden explanation, sometimes thats the best way for people to understand. Thank you in advance and God bless.
I play a LTD ESP C-305 Bass

Offline dhagler

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2008, 11:45:18 AM »
I'll start.  Given any first note in a scale, the fourth note of that scale is either one string up or one string and two frets down.  The fifth note is either one string down or one string and two frets up.  The circle is completed when you play all 12 notes:

Circle of 4ths, starting with C:  C, F, B-flat, E-flat, A-flat, D-flat, G-flat, B, E, A, D, G
Circle of 5ths, starting with C:  C, G, D, A, E, B, G-flat, D-flat, A-flat, E-flat, B-flat, F

Hope this helps.

Offline Torch7

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2008, 12:24:26 PM »
Circle of 5ths.
If you take the Major Scale and associate a number with each interval.

Example:
C Major
C D E F G A B C
The fifth degree of the scale is G.
C = 1, D = 2.... G= 5 and so on.
Then From G Major
G A B C D E F# G
The fifth degree of the scale is D.
G = 1, A = 2... D = 5.

If you repeat this cycle for each scale you land on and grab the fifth you will eventually have a chart that looks like this.


If you move clockwise you will eventually land back at C and found find all twelve keys on the circle.

Cycle of 4ths.
Simply apply the same rules, you will find the cycle of 4ths moving counter clockwise.
To figure out the circle of 4ths... DO the same things.
C Major
C D E F G A B C
The 4th is F,
F Major
F, G, A, Bb, C, D, and E
The 4th is Bb
Bb Major
The fourth will be Eb, and so on.

*** Notice in the graphic above as well you will find a trick with the Cycle of Fourths and Fifths...
Moving clockwise the number  indicates how many sharps is in the key signature, and moving counter clockwise you can find how many flats are in the key signature ***

& like Dhagler said you can always find the 4th and 5th from where you are by moving up on string same fret, or moving down one string same fret.

Hope this helps... if any part is unclear... Chime back in.

Offline blacklw234

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 12:44:02 PM »
Finally!!!!!!!!!!  Very Clear, Both (dhagler and Torch7) previous explanations opened up my eyes so much. Particular yours Torch7 because you gave a visual. This should be a standard in teaching the circles, very simple but understood. Thanks so much to both of you.  I believe my bass playing has just went to another level, cause I am picturing so much I can do with that pattern.   ;D
I play a LTD ESP C-305 Bass

Offline Torch7

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2008, 12:53:24 PM »
Finally!!!!!!!!!!  Very Clear, Both (dhagler and Torch7) previous explanations opened up my eyes so much. Particular yours Torch7 because you gave a visual. This should be a standard in teaching the circles, very simple but understood. Thanks so much to both of you.  I believe my bass playing has just went to another level, cause I am picturing so much I can do with that pattern.   ;D

Glad it helped...
but don't forget to throw a brother in the credits of your "SOLO" Album.  ;)

Offline Quebass86

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2008, 01:17:13 PM »
If you know the song "Never would have made it" by Marvin Sapp, it is has a big portion of the song that is basically the cycle of 4ths.
May God's Grace & Mercy smile upon you!

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2008, 01:53:15 PM »
Would anyone be interesting in a video going into depth on the circle of 4ths and or fifths?

I was going to make one that goes in conjuection with my upcoming videos on congregational songs, but this will give me an excuse to just talk about the circle of 4ths and fifths for 10 minutes..lol
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline tts66

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2008, 04:38:56 PM »
Excellent Idea  ;D  ....I would be very interested in a in depth video of the 4th's and 5ths.

Offline Fingers!

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2008, 04:42:52 PM »
I'll start.  Given any first note in a scale, the fourth note of that scale is either one string up or one string and two frets down.  The fifth note is either one string down or one string and two frets up.  The circle is completed when you play all 12 notes:

Circle of 4ths, starting with C:  C, F, B-flat, E-flat, A-flat, D-flat, G-flat, B, E, A, D, G
Circle of 5ths, starting with C:  C, G, D, A, E, B, G-flat, D-flat, A-flat, E-flat, B-flat, F

Hope this helps.

This is how I see it as well.  I focus on the word phrases "BEAD-G" and "G-DAEB"  ...well, actually, I used to.  It's sort-of, automatic, now.  I just follow my ears. 

Offline Torch7

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 05:23:49 PM »
Common progressions move in 4ths, because its a strong movement...

7-3 is a 4th apart.
3-6 is a 4th apart.
6-2 is a 4th apart.
2-5 is a 4th apart.
5-1 is a 4th apart.

put it together and you got 7-3-6-2-5-1

Ascending 4ths, and Descending 5th are very strong movements.

Offline hands5

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2008, 08:34:18 AM »
Circle of 5ths.
If you take the Major Scale and associate a number with each interval.

Example:
C Major
C D E F G A B C
The fifth degree of the scale is G.
C = 1, D = 2.... G= 5 and so on.
Then From G Major
G A B C D E F# G
The fifth degree of the scale is D.
G = 1, A = 2... D = 5.

If you repeat this cycle for each scale you land on and grab the fifth you will eventually have a chart that looks like this.


If you move clockwise you will eventually land back at C and found find all twelve keys on the circle.

Cycle of 4ths.
Simply apply the same rules, you will find the cycle of 4ths moving counter clockwise.
To figure out the circle of 4ths... DO the same things.
C Major
C D E F G A B C
The 4th is F,
F Major
F, G, A, Bb, C, D, and E
The 4th is Bb
Bb Major
The fourth will be Eb, and so on.

*** Notice in the graphic above as well you will find a trick with the Cycle of Fourths and Fifths...
Moving clockwise the number  indicates how many sharps is in the key signature, and moving counter clockwise you can find how many flats are in the key signature ***

& like Dhagler said you can always find the 4th and 5th from where you are by moving up on string same fret, or moving down one string same fret.

Hope this helps... if any part is unclear... Chime back in.

Excellent

Offline chrismc101

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2008, 10:12:08 AM »
All of the reponses and readings are GREAT. But we must understand that we, sometimes, need to break things down (musically) in it's simpliest form for bassist to really be able to understand the concept.

With that said, REMEMBER, a 5th is ALWAYS right beside a note: (i.e.) G --> 5th is C
                                     a 4th is ALWAYS left beside a note:  (i.e.) G --> 4th is D

Now, you can visualize your fretboard and notes, use the Circle of 4th/5th chart and apply.
Hope I was able to make things a lil more easier to understand. It really helped me when I realized it in that fashion.

The way I explained it, really helped me to understand Maj 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect 5th, Maj 6th and Maj 7th. Those things were greek to me, until it I saw it in a simple aspect.

Hope it helped. Keep bassn everybody.
CeeMc
"bassN4eva"

Offline Torch7

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2008, 10:48:00 AM »
All of the reponses and readings are GREAT. But we must understand that we, sometimes, need to break things down (musically) in it's simpliest form for bassist to really be able to understand the concept.

With that said, REMEMBER, a 5th is ALWAYS right beside a note: (i.e.) G --> 5th is C
                                     a 4th is ALWAYS left beside a note:  (i.e.) G --> 4th is D

Now, you can visualize your fretboard and notes, use the Circle of 4th/5th chart and apply.
Hope I was able to make things a lil more easier to understand. It really helped me when I realized it in that fashion.

The way I explained it, really helped me to understand Maj 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect 5th, Maj 6th and Maj 7th. Those things were greek to me, until it I saw it in a simple aspect.

Hope it helped. Keep bassn everybody.

I think you explanation was covered twice, br'er.  You may have worded it differently however.

I agree things need to be simplified, at the same time, being given enough foundation, and then having your own "Eureka" or "Epiphany" moments create critical thinking skills that are necessary in taking concepts to another level, of creativity. :)

Offline chrismc101

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 01:42:32 PM »
Torch7,

You are correct. I was just trying to share how the light bulb flashed in my head once IO realized how to recognize them and play around with them.
CeeMc
"bassN4eva"

Offline Torch7

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 04:52:30 PM »
Torch7,

You are correct. I was just trying to share how the light bulb flashed in my head once IO realized how to recognize them and play around with them.

gotcha.

Offline R.RICH.

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2008, 09:31:07 AM »
I feel like I should be paying you guys for this!!!!!!!!!!
I'm Hangin' On Hebrews 11:1

Offline Torch7

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2008, 09:55:04 AM »
I feel like I should be paying you guys for this!!!!!!!!!!

It's all good.  It's kingdom business, and the reward is in heaven.

"do good unto all men especially those in the household of faith" (Galatians 6:10)

Offline baggettcindy

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Re: Circle of 4ths and 5ths
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2014, 02:54:53 PM »
oldie, but goody.........took notes
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