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Author Topic: Again with the despair  (Read 4890 times)

Offline uriahsmusic

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2008, 05:24:09 PM »
If God has blessed you with a talent, He will provide a venue for you to use that talent to His glory.

...I dont agree with much....but I definately agree with this!

Offline bassthumpa

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2008, 08:32:43 PM »
It could be worse. You could be a member of a church and, even though u are willing to volunteer your gifts, can't play there (or anywhere else with them) unless you are on paid staff.......so they can control u.  That is my situation and I tell u, stay encouraged!!

So you mean to tell me that even though your church doesn't have a bass player, they won't let you play VOLUNTARILY for FREE because you want to be part of the MINISTRY!?  That's insane.

Offline chrismc101

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2008, 07:54:04 AM »
I totally agree with you floaded27. Still sorta kinda having this problem. The director is so sorry with informing us of material prior to rehearsal. Choir rehearsal is just that; not musicians rehearsal. I don't see why they don't understand that we need the material at least a week in advance.

And then when, myself and the organist are trying to get insync on a particular part, they(she) wanna rush as if we suppose to know it already or ya'll can do that later. Yet and still there vocals are nowhere near on point, but I digress.

And then our organist thinks cause he's heard 2 seconds of a song that he knows it and wanna impliment changes; as where I've learned it as I've heard it on the CD.

Browntiplocs, I ALSO play for free! But durn, they won't let you play knowing it's not about the dollar, wow! Question though, "How is it that they try to control you or those who are paid staff?"
CeeMc
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Offline BimmerFan99

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2008, 10:40:30 PM »
Floaded, I really feel ya, man.  I have similar issues with not receiving material in enough time for everyone to learn.  There are several musicians with varying skill levels and out of 12, about 3 or 4 of us can pick up the material fairly quickly.  The rest aren't used to playing by ear and need time.  It really bothers me when they throw stuff on us last minute and only about 4 of us are following, and even then we're faking it.

I also feel you when you talk about seeing an opportunity for improvement, and when you make it known, no one else wants to do anything about it.  Most people are more comfortable maintaining the status quo.  It's FRUSTRATING to the point that it bothers me when I'm not even at church.

With your issues, man, whatever you decide to do, just remember to keep your head up.  Don't EVER give up no matter how frustrating it may be.  Do some personal meditation and praying to help you decide what to do.  You may find you need a change of church, which is okay.  Or, you may find that staying where you are is the best decision.

One thing that may help put things into focus is understanding how much time and energy it would take to persist in really making a change that is needed.  Then, think about what you would have to sacrifice to do that and if it would be worth it.  In my case, the sacrifice would be my academics.  I'm in Tallahassee now to get a degree, not to play.  That's just a blessing that came along with it.

Stick with your focus and let everything else go.  You can only fight so many battles at one time.

Offline DWBass

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2008, 10:29:22 AM »
An observation..................I find it troubling that so many appointed MOM's or those in charge of music ministries don't seem to have that much musical knowledge or knowledge on how to organize an ensemble setting!!

Just wondering......has anyone ever approached the pastor/minister of these churches and asked their opinion of thier music ministry?? If so, were they in agreement with your observations of oblivious to the situations?? Or are aware but just tolerant through faith and prayer??

Just asking..................
"Never Leave Home Without Your Groove On" :)

Offline malthumb

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2008, 01:52:00 PM »
An observation..................I find it troubling that so many appointed MOM's or those in charge of music ministries don't seem to have that much musical knowledge or knowledge on how to organize an ensemble setting!!

Just wondering......has anyone ever approached the pastor/minister of these churches and asked their opinion of thier music ministry?? If so, were they in agreement with your observations of oblivious to the situations?? Or are aware but just tolerant through faith and prayer??

Just asking..................

Great observation.  The way we audition MOM is to have them play a couple songs on the piano and the organ.  The choir usually decides on a couple songs they want to hear and have the applicant play it fom sheet music rather than memory.  There's never been any discussion on planning for an ensemble because until very recently, piano and organ are all that got played in our traditional service.  We've introduced bass and drums just in the early contemporary service and for special events in our traditional service.

As for the pastor's pov, he's not really musically inclined and can only respond from the perspective of "I like it" or I don't like it".  He doesn't really know enough to provide suggestions.

Peace,

James
FAITH unites people
RELIGION divides FAITH

Offline DWBass

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2008, 02:23:28 PM »
Well, maybe something like this may be in order. I'm of the opinion that some type of organization is needed for any church that decides to start a music ministry. In my experience growing up....my church had a choir only (still does) and always had regular rehearsals and songs were picked and worked on (no surprises) and only performed when deemed ready. This constant attitude of not rehearsing and basically just winging it doesn't sit well with me but that's just my opinion. Also the fact that certain musicians aren't deemed important enough to even respect their wishes to become more organized doesn't sit well with either.
"Never Leave Home Without Your Groove On" :)

Offline DWBass

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #47 on: June 15, 2008, 02:24:51 PM »
I meant to say my church has always had a choir+pianist/organist only. No band.
"Never Leave Home Without Your Groove On" :)

Offline BimmerFan99

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #48 on: June 15, 2008, 02:44:19 PM »
My current situation is one where the pastor does appreciate the music, but I believe he's got other priorities and isn't as musically inclined to add much value except for general and political support.

Our MoM is not a musician, as far as I know, and definitely appreciates the contributions of the musicians.  The biggest problem is that people like it but seem to be unaware of the immense amount of time and effort required to make the music happen.  I spend a lot of time trying to show people life at the church from the perspective of our musicians.  Rehearsals that go to 11 or 12 at night, practice during the week and the energy it takes to play during service (some days I'm really BEAT after a service).

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #49 on: June 15, 2008, 04:05:49 PM »
(some days I'm really BEAT after a service).

A-MEN!!!!!

I got home today and just plopped down.  Doubt I'l lbe doing anything else today.
Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline floaded27

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2008, 11:26:45 PM »
As for the pastor's pov, he's not really musically inclined and can only respond from the perspective of "I like it" or I don't like it".  He doesn't really know enough to provide suggestions.

true that. my pastor isnt one of those about to cut an album or nothin like that. he cant even really sing, but that was never a requirement (nor should it ever be) to preach/teach or be a pastor. he can say he didnt like something or he liked it or something was missing, but as far as him having that musical insight, it isnt there.

I'm of the opinion that some type of organization is needed for any church that decides to start a music ministry. This constant attitude of not rehearsing and basically just winging it doesn't sit well with me but that's just my opinion. Also the fact that certain musicians aren't deemed important enough to even respect their wishes to become more organized doesn't sit well with either.

DW, organization is totally needed. at one point things were more on point. i think what happened is somewhere down the line people started to feel it wasnt totally necessary and also people who were a part of more than one thing started to feel like if they put in a certain amount of total effort, they can distribute that effort in any way they want regardless of whats neglected and goes lacking
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline floaded27

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2008, 11:28:43 PM »
The biggest problem is that people like it but seem to be unaware of the immense amount of time and effort required to make the music happen

i believe this is the root of this whole issue. people ignorant of the amount of time and effort required of others as well as themselves.
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline Fingers!

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2008, 03:28:06 PM »
It could be worse. You could be a member of a church and, even though u are willing to volunteer your gifts, can't play there (or anywhere else with them) unless you are on paid staff.......so they can control u.  That is my situation and I tell u, stay encouraged!!

So you mean to tell me that even though your church doesn't have a bass player, they won't let you play VOLUNTARILY for FREE because you want to be part of the MINISTRY!?  That's insane.

I thought Browntiplocs was saying that if some churches are willing to swing money around, then they probably feel that they don't need volunteer work from you when they can hire another to do it.  Then, if they DO hire you, they'll commit you to every single event that comes up, making their issues top level priority to ALL of your issues.  I don't know what Browntiplocs was getting at but that's how I originally received it.

Offline Browntiplocs

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2008, 08:07:11 AM »
So you mean to tell me that even though your church doesn't have a bass player, they won't let you play VOLUNTARILY for FREE because you want to be part of the MINISTRY!?  That's insane.
 

This is what I meant.  I mean its more to it than this, of course, but it all boils down to this.

Offline Browntiplocs

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2008, 08:20:52 AM »
Browntiplocs, I ALSO play for free! But durn, they won't let you play knowing it's not about the dollar, wow! Question though, "How is it that they try to control you or those who are paid staff?"

CONTROL That was their words not mine.

Offline floaded27

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2008, 10:10:22 AM »
This is what I meant.  I mean its more to it than this, of course, but it all boils down to this.

browntiplocs, you have gotten to play in opportunities many of us have only dreamed of or seek to achieve, but cant volunteer to play at your own church. kinda puts my situation in perspective. i do have some freedom there and a little input (although i think its only because im one of the few people upon whose shoulders is the survival of the church). but also realize that for some (and me for a while), that it is a "if i cant play at church i cant play at all" situation.

i guess the moral of the story is count your blessings. it seems that each of us has a piece of the puzzle that someone else is missing and the pieces we're missing someone else has. we can pray for each other that one day God completes each of our puzzles.



For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline dhagler

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2008, 12:18:44 PM »
i guess the moral of the story is count your blessings. it seems that each of us has a piece of the puzzle that someone else is missing and the pieces we're missing someone else has. we can pray for each other that one day God completes each of our puzzles.

Amen to that, floaded.  None of us have the same situation, nor do any of us have an ideal situation (ideal is in the mind of the beholder).  But God is in control of all of our situations, and He will see us through to wherever it is He would have us to go.

Offline organman88

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2008, 07:54:15 AM »
hey man im a organist and i feel your pain most people in church even most choir directors really don't know or understand music and feel the other parts are not necessary and think that the drums and bass and guitar can just fall in and just jump in behind the organ and it dont work like that and then churches wonder why they have a bad music department
keyz 4 life

Offline newbirthbass

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2008, 03:06:48 PM »
Can I put my two cents in?  At my church we have the MoM the pianist (or musician as everyone calls him like me and the drummer are just decorations  >:( ) me on bass and  two drummers.  My frustraion comes from the laziness and unwillingness to work on our music department.  I can't remember the last time whe had a musicians' rehearsal.  Our MoM, pianist and main drummer all get paid but I play for free.  And its not about the money by any means but you would think that if someone was paying you to do something you would want to give your best.  I am also a victim (if I may use that word) of not being told the songs we are going to play at choir rehearsal until the day before at the earliest.  Most times I'm never told I just show up to rehearsal and when the choir starts to sing I have to just go for what I know.  VERY FRUSTRATING! And back to the money part.  How can you complain about your amp not being any good or complain about the keyboard not being up to par when you could easily use what you're being paid to buy new gear.  I, on the other hand, haven't even been offered new strings for my bass.  Then they complain about not getting paid enough and the money isn't really worth getting but my question is what do you even do that's worth getting paid for.  Last time I checked showing up late and not being prepared weren't considered good work ethics.  I think a lot of people get complacent in their position and money only adds to it.  People have the mindset that "well I'll play what I know and I'm still going to get my paper."  That is the reason why I don't play for money.  I don't want to cloud my mind.  In time I'll get rewarded for what I do.  Playing bass is more than just a hobby for me and more than just something fun to do.  Its the way I express my heart to God and it's really frustrating when people don't share the same passion for what they do because there should be a spirit of unity in anything that you do for ministry.  When you don't have that unity it puts a strain on the ones who really have a heart for the ministry we are in.  My two cents.  Sorry so long.
Replace "I can't" with "I don't know how" then go learn.

Offline dremy2006

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Re: Again with the despair
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2008, 08:52:20 PM »
I don't want to cloud my mind.  In time I'll get rewarded for what I do.  Playing bass is more than just a hobby for me and more than just something fun to do.  Its the way I express my heart to God
I THINK MY GOD FOR AH HEART OF WORSHIP...
Allowing the Creator To use His Creation To Create for you.....
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