Keyboardists playing bass on keys

[themidiroom]

Hey, I'm not trying to put any bassist out of work.  I had a gig this weekend and I was told "oh yeah, there's no bassist on this gig"
I did the gig and it turned out fairly well.  A musician buddy of mine that plays bass walks in.  I can tell he likes what I'm doing, but he was smirking the whole time. 
How do you guys feel about keyboardists that double up and play bass on keys?

[DWBass]

It depends on the style of music but I much prefer a 'real' bassist. But if it has to be done, I prefer a bassist playing keys bass. Many old school songs were done on keyboards especially the Minneapolis funk sound.

[Bullitt]

It depends on the style of music but I much prefer a 'real' bassist. But if it has to be done, I prefer a bassist playing keys bass. Many old school songs were done on keyboards especially the Minneapolis funk sound.

+1

Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.  IMO if you can't have a "real" bass player, then getting a bass player to play synth bass on a keyboard/midi controller is the next best thing.  It's not that a keyboard player couldn't handle it, I just think that a bass player will aproach the situation with a totally different mentality than a keyboardist playing a bass line.


Be Blessed,
J

[floaded27]

i feel that the keyboardist cant really do as much as he/she could do as a keyboardist because they're too busy holdin down the bass. which i think was the point of the b3 having the foot pedals, to eliminate the "i only got two hands" problem. but then theres the issue of simplifying things because you're doing so many at once, similar to how people who play and sing simplify their playing while they are singing and go fully at it when theyre not.

[themidiroom]

I just think that a bass player will aproach the situation with a totally different mentality than a keyboardist playing a bass line.

Assuming the keyboardist doesn't play bass or is at least familiar with good bass technique.

[floaded27]

Hey, I'm not trying to put any bassist out of work.  I had a gig this weekend and I was told "oh yeah, there's no bassist on this gig"
I did the gig and it turned out fairly well.  A musician buddy of mine that plays bass walks in.  I can tell he likes what I'm doing, but he was smirking the whole time. 
How do you guys feel about keyboardists that double up and play bass on keys?

i do understand your situation and if thats the case where theres no bassist, and you do your thing, i dont have a problem and i dont think most bassists have a problem. i think the question that lingers in the mind is why wasnt there a bassist?

the whole keyboard/bass player conflict comes when you have the keyboardist/organist that wants to do it all even when he has the help. thats like the quarterback that wants to lead in passing yards and TD passes (his job) PLUS rushing yards PLUS TDs scored and if he could get on defensive squad he would to lead in sacks and interceptions. why wouldnt the rest of the team be upset when this guy wont let us do the job we're trained to do and specialize in?

[dhagler]

Some keyboardists are used to having to carry both roles.  I play with one such keyboardist.  She is finally starting to relinquish the low end after a year of playing together.

[themidiroom]

i think the question that lingers in the mind is why wasnt there a bassist?
why wouldnt the rest of the team be upset when this guy wont let us do the job we're trained to do and specialize in?

On this gig, the band leader double booked and had to take his bassist with him to another gig.  I'd rather play keys with a bassist because I can do a lot more.   However as someone that played key bass exclusively for quite a few years, I do enjoy that as well.  Every once in a while I'll run into some bass players from years ago that remember playing on gospel concerts together and they'll ask me do I still play key bass.

[Fingers!]

I have no problem with a keys guy doing bass lines.  If there's nobody else there to do it, go for it!!  I happens to like observing the way keyboard players play bass anyway.  It's a different approach to the basslines than the usual bassplayer.  I do a lot of analyzing and comparing.

[Bullitt]

Assuming the keyboardist doesn't play bass or is at least familiar with good bass technique.

Valid point.  I was basing my response on the assumption that the person only played keys exclusively.  In a case like yours, I'd consider the keybass player to be equal to a "true" bass player playing keys.


Be Blessed,
J

[jlc4703]

I can only speak for myself. When I was called to this church, I was a (very rusty) bass player. We had keys, bass, and drums, an occasional trumpet.  About 6 months later, I bought a 5-string bass.

All along, I wanted something (other than harmonica) for slow worship music. My granddaugher (who lives with us) started taking piano at school, and I bought a stage piano for practice.  Then my wife and I started classical piano at the local community college.

I bought an older Kurzweil K2000VP, and started using it along with the bass at church (some songs on one, some on the other). Gradually, I found myself doing more of the bass on the keyboard, especially after I bought the Bass Gallery CD with a lot of very good samples.  Now, I have the K2000 and a PC2 at the church.  As I get better in playing, I find more cases where I have the bass part running on the 2000 and something like Hammond/Leslie right hand on the PC2.

I also do a lot of orchestral parts in worship music. I have noticed that I almost exclusively use those instruments with which I have a good knowledge of HOW they should sound.  In orther words, when I'm playing bass, I'm pretty much playing the same patterns, riffs, and little extra tweaks (hammer ons, slap, etc) regardless of whether I'm on bass or keys.

Right now, our group has a lead keyboardist, drummer, two guitarists, trumpet, and myself. My particular part in the group is adding the filler to make the sound fuller and more balanced - whatever it takes to do that.   I've almost completely stopped playing either real bass - my hands hurt more (I'm 66).

For a little while, we did have a bassist, but he moved on. I NEVER stepped on his place while he was there - it freed me up more do do other things.

Jim

[themidiroom]

Valid point.  I was basing my response on the assumption that the person only played keys exclusively.  In a case like yours, I'd consider the keybass player to be equal to a "true" bass player playing keys.


Be Blessed,
J

Honestly, I suck on a real bass.    I can play a few scales and stuff but never bought a bass of my own.

[momuzik]

I play keys running the bass line with my left hand, I wish we did have a bassist to free me up.
The church bought a bass; I passed it to 4 different guys to learn so they can play with the PT/ choir. They each took turns sitting on it.
To be honest, I'd rather pass the keys off and play bass myself (even though I'm in the beginning stages of learning).

[Torch7]

I don't mind a keyboard player playing bass... I actually heard a guy last night that plays both bass and keys, and it was obvious, he played in  a style that if you closed your eyes your wouldn't know that it was a keyboard being played in his left hand.

What I don't care for is when keyboard players, will not release the low-end.  In my experience it muddies up the low end, and it boxes me in a bit, and I have to fight against my natural tendencies in my approach.  It also makes me play a bit hesitant.   I don't want to make generalizations though because I have only played with 3 different keyboard players since I have been playing. 

Two of them have a tendency to control the bass lines, the other one lets me play.  But it's all good, if they wanna run the bassline, go ahead ( I hope their hand cramps up... j/k) 

[cas10a]

Two of them have a tendency to control the bass lines, the other one lets me play.  But it's all good, if they wanna run the bassline, go ahead ( I hope their hand cramps up... j/k) 

I've made this statement before on this subject...

I don't think that keyboard players that do this are always purposely trying to do this, you are probably correct in saying that it is a tendency.  It's been years since I've played on a steady basis with a bass player (and quite a while, until recently, there was no drummer).  This lead me to have to compensate for not only rhythm of whatever song, but incorporate bass also in playing keys.  The downside is, if and when I have a bass player, not thinking about it, I sometimes step on the bass when I definately could be doing other things musically on keys.  I even sometimes force rhythm changes with the way I'm playing, not thinking to let the drummer control the rhythm...

At least, I'm starting to get used to playing with a drummer again, so it doesn't happen as often on that part, but I know it would take me a minute to adjust my style of play again to having a steady bass player (it's been a while...lol).     

[momuzik]

...I don't think that keyboard players that do this are always purposely trying to do this,...

A keyboardist needs to learn to chord with the left hand so as not to step on the bass line.
I haven't played with a bass player yet and to be honest, I'm not sure what to do if I did. All I know to do is move my left hand up an octave.
Usually a keyboardist would chord with the left and ad-lib with the right if they have a bassist. But left-hand chording a whole new experience for me.

[under13]

A keyboardist needs to learn to chord with the left hand so as not to step on the bass line.
I haven't played with a bass player yet and to be honest, I'm not sure what to do if I did. All I know to do is move my left hand up an octave.
Usually a keyboardist would chord with the left and ad-lib with the right if they have a bassist. But left-hand chording a whole new experience for me.

just play the same thing in both hands

[gambit23435]

I play keys running the bass line with my left hand, I wish we did have a bassist to free me up.
The church bought a bass; I passed it to 4 different guys to learn so they can play with the PT/ choir. They each took turns sitting on it.
To be honest, I'd rather pass the keys off and play bass myself (even though I'm in the beginning stages of learning).

I noticed from your profile that you're in Hampton VA. You don't have a bass player at your church?  ?

[momuzik]

I noticed from your profile that you're in Hampton VA. You don't have a bass player at your church?  ?

Naw, there's me on keyboard, a drummer and a guy on congas. The church bought an entry level bass (Karera jazz bass - $125) hoping someone would take the initiative and learn to play. Well, the bass has been passed to the 4th person who's supposed to be learning. This guy just recently had wrist surgery for tendenitis so I don't know how far he'll go with it.

[themidiroom]

A keyboardist needs to learn to chord with the left hand so as not to step on the bass line.
I haven't played with a bass player yet and to be honest, I'm not sure what to do if I did. All I know to do is move my left hand up an octave.
Usually a keyboardist would chord with the left and ad-lib with the right if they have a bassist. But left-hand chording a whole new experience for me.

I think the key is to be flexible.  Keyboardist should be able to run bass as well as two handed chords and chords and solo.  I mostly play a B3 and use the pedals for bass.  When I have to run bass and keys on a keyboard, I feel like one of my arms is cut off because I can't do nearly as much with chords and melodies.  If they weren't so expensive, I'd buy a 25 key pedal board to take to gigs.