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Author Topic: How do you get the correct chord voicing?  (Read 9136 times)

Offline Fenix

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How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« on: October 25, 2008, 10:18:13 AM »
This is something i have been struggling with when learning gospel songs. I can pick out the chord but i cannot get the correct voicing for the chord. I don't know if this makes any sense, but what i mean is i know that the chord to be played is an Fm7 or whatever and i play the Fm7 but it doesn't sound EXACTLY like the CD.

How do you guys get the correct voicings when you chord out songs?
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Offline under13

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2008, 10:27:31 AM »
I guess you gotta combine having a very Good Ear and already being familuar with the type of chords being played. I have a very good ear, but i dont have a great chord vocabulary to be able to recognize complex chords when I hear them. The guys on the CD are probaly are adding different notes in addition to that Fm7.

Have you tried playing different inversions?

Offline csedwards2

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 10:32:49 AM »
listen listen listen, and I spell it from top to bottom. then bottom to top, and I try to get as many notes as I can hear. Then, I look at what Im playing and see if the theory would suggest something close to what Im playing. Basically trial and error. And Im not the one to spend a ton of time trying to get the exact voicing anyway.

Another thing I try to do is play the run with the right hand and and see if that puts me in proximity of what I was hearing, and try to go from there. Most of the pros play left hand chords with the right hand adding to it and doing runs, so I always check what voicing would fall in line with that, unless I can tell for sure that they are not playing it that way.

It also pays to know who is playing and/or their style of playing. Like fmason3 was talking about on one of his videos that Mike Bereal and Jason White are all west coast musicians and they all use rootless left hand chords. Thats a major piece to the puzzle, because if you know its them it just eliminates tons of possibilities, and you can focus on the crazy stuff that might work.

Offline T-Block

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 06:01:35 PM »
I guess you gotta combine having a very Good Ear and already being familuar with the type of chords being played.
listen listen listen, and I spell it from top to bottom. then bottom to top

That about sums it up.  If trying to get the exact voicing from the CD, your EARS will be your primary weapon.  RW and FF til u get it like u want it.
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Offline B3Wannabe

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 06:28:08 PM »
^^^ That's it right there.

You'd be amazed. Most of the time they're playing simple chords. It's just how they're laying it with the bass note.

Offline walisii

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2008, 01:07:45 AM »
yeah I've got the same problem! :D   Gospel chords are so "strange" to me!

Offline docjohn

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2008, 06:36:51 AM »
For what instrument Fen?  because piano and organ differ somewhat.Couple things  to try,try your balance control -depending on if the have they keys  mixed more left or right,helps to hear a part better.Also,if they have a performance track available without vocals,that;s a good learning tool;get a basic feel of how things are played.hope it helps ;be blessed

Offline Docdb04

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2008, 07:09:13 AM »
Quote
listen listen listen, and I spell it from top to bottom. then bottom to top, and I try to get as many notes as I can hear.

Cosign.

Try playing the baseline with your left hand (simplify it by just concentrating on the changes) and playing the melody with your right hand.  When you look at the base note and the melody, that you have played, you can almost figure out what chord is being played, or at least a simple version of the chord.  There will still be a few that you will have to figure out, but for the most part you will have most of the chords in the song.

Hope this helps
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Offline organman88

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 07:16:05 AM »
if you know what chord that go with each tone in the scale you will have something to work with and almost every gospel song uses 7ths and above secondly learn the melody and the bass note then you can go from there i can go into more detail if you want just let me know
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Offline Fenix

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 10:37:35 AM »
if you know what chord that go with each tone in the scale you will have something to work with and almost every gospel song uses 7ths and above secondly learn the melody and the bass note then you can go from there i can go into more detail if you want just let me know

More details please. I am used to playing CCm and in CCM you don't usually play extended chords.
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Offline T-Block

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 10:48:24 AM »
in CCM you don't usually play extended chords.

You know man, I've been noticing this every since I started to get into this style of music.  I play for this ministry we have here on our college campus, and the majority of their music is CCM.  The praise team leader gives me the chords symbols for the songs, and all I see is:  C, Cm, C/E, etc.

I hardly see any diminished type chords, there may be a 7th chord here and there, I can't remember seeing any extended chords (9ths, 11ths, 13ths), for the most part it's mainly traids.  I'm like, this music is so simple a baby could play it. Then when I go to add in my "gospel" stuff, sometimes it fits and sometimes it don't.  I've learned/am learning to find a happy medium.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 01:07:16 PM »
You know man, I've been noticing this every since I started to get into this style of music.  I play for this ministry we have here on our college campus, and the majority of their music is CCM.  The praise team leader gives me the chords symbols for the songs, and all I see is:  C, Cm, C/E, etc.

I hardly see any diminished type chords, there may be a 7th chord here and there, I can't remember seeing any extended chords (9ths, 11ths, 13ths), for the most part it's mainly traids.  I'm like, this music is so simple a baby could play it. Then when I go to add in my "gospel" stuff, sometimes it fits and sometimes it don't.  I've learned/am learning to find a happy medium.

It's one of the things I like about CCM. You don't need a whole lot of stuff.  :-\
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Offline organman88

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 01:21:31 PM »
More details please. I am used to playing CCm and in CCM you don't usually play extended chords.
What do you mean by CCM
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Offline under13

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 01:28:26 PM »
What do you mean by CCM
Christian Contemporary Music.

I guess its based on rock music, and relies heavily on the guitar.

Go to Youtube and look up Don Moen.

Offline T-Block

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 01:58:15 PM »
It's one of the things I like about CCM. You don't need a whole lot of stuff.  :-\

Don't get me wrong, I like it as well.  But, at times I wanna use some extended chords and runs that may or may not fit well with the overall style.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
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Offline Fenix

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 06:49:23 PM »
What do you mean by CCM

Christian Contemporary Music.

I guess its based on rock music, and relies heavily on the guitar.

Go to Youtube and look up Don Moen.

That is correct.

Don't get me wrong, I like it as well.  But, at times I wanna use some extended chords and runs that may or may not fit well with the overall style.

If you wanna do gospel CCm, i think Ron Kenoly comes very close to it. he is not straight up gospel and not straight up CCM either.

Those 7th chords just don't work all the time. Its usually almost always triads which is why i like it for guitar. My bassist and some of the other musicians are sometimes bored with it. :)

In fact in a CCM song you almost NEVER hear a diminished chord.
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Offline under13

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 06:53:57 PM »


In fact in a CCM song you almost NEVER hear a diminished chord.

Maybe thats why I dont like CCM music.

Offline docjohn

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 07:56:22 AM »
I'm with 13!!! a lot of the CCM is just too bland,Moen writes some good stuff,just need to spice it up.Think a lot of the CCM cats copy stuff from rock 15-20 years ago and bring it in as "new".As i hear some CCM,that's "hottie and the blowfish.madonna reverb etc,.ad nauseum.

Offline Fenix

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 08:59:15 AM »
I'm with 13!!! a lot of the CCM is just too bland,Moen writes some good stuff,just need to spice it up.Think a lot of the CCM cats copy stuff from rock 15-20 years ago and bring it in as "new".As i hear some CCM,that's "hottie and the blowfish.madonna reverb etc,.ad nauseum.

Well bear in mind that CCM music was played by guys who probably learned guitar from a rock perspective. They grew up playing Led Zeppelin and AC/DC and all that but then gave their lives to God. Those influences will still be there. I think its the same with the newer gospel stuff, especially the neo-soul gospel. Those cats grew up listening to R&B and a lot of jazz and blues.

CCM music doesn't depend on phat chords and all that to make it sound full. They use a lot of guitar effects and synths and all.
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Offline mawarren70

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Re: How do you get the correct chord voicing?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 06:30:12 PM »
I understand the situation and all inputs were great.

Banging your head to get it exact is commendable and depending on the musician can be a way of demonstrating their love for God. Some aspects you hear on a CD are the musicians interpretation or offering to God in song.  For example depending on how fast you chord you can use a 2-3-4-b5-5 to do a simple 2-5 progression or even 2 - b7- with a base run of 6-5#-5.  Remember that your interpretation as long as it is recognizable as the song is your individual offering to God as long as you are yielding your talents to God in love.

The base line and or changes is the best way. 

However, if you have a small choir and you have to sing as well, playing more of the melody line and choir voicing is a quick way of playing the song. Let choir voicing and ease of hand movement dictate the voicing.  This way is good when the base line rhythmic vices following the changes or melody line.

There is no one way that works all the time. What you hear on the Cd does not always accurately reflect all that is being played. for some mix downs use offset voicing on various tracks.  For example, the piano track is often doubled or tripled adding an octave or a fifth from the original piano track.  The fifth works because it is within the major scale of all except for the seventh.  However, the dominate seventh the Bb fifth note is F.  Also the 6th of the 1rst, 4th or 5th. These can add some dissidence, a.k.a tension.  For example. a F base with a Cmb5M in this example LH  = F - C - F RH  = C - Eb - Gb - Bb. I call it adding a contemporary feel to traditional progression.

I Hope this helps.. God Bless

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