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Author Topic: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson  (Read 2159 times)

Offline SabianKnight

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Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« on: December 02, 2008, 02:02:47 PM »
Check this article out from Vater's web site.... Seek and Ye Shall FIND.

http://www.vater.com/education/lessons/MadMadModulation/index.html
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Offline lockslie1

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2008, 04:11:50 PM »
Thanks Sabe.

Offline edough

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2008, 10:17:17 PM »
Check this article out from Vater's web site.... Seek and Ye Shall FIND.

http://www.vater.com/education/lessons/MadMadModulation/index.html
[/quote

i love when you post this stuff.. It makes me re-evaluate my playing.. I.E when to use metric mod..?
I use it mostly at the end of songs on vamps to displace and stretch out..
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Offline fretai03

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 03:41:38 AM »
Solid stuff. I'm going to print this off so I can read/digest properly.

Offline MENDOZA

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 07:58:28 AM »
YEAH MAN!!!!!!!  You already know.  This is great stuff.  If anyone wants to really get in depth with this concept, check out Gavin Harrison's book Rhythmic Illusions.  There's some really crazy stuff in there and will open your ears to different ideas and your mind to different concepts.  As always GREAT post Sabe, much love and respect.  Take care and God Bless.

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Offline Da_Drumma

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 10:25:39 AM »
Good stuff bro!!! I shall click Print!!

Offline tko05

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 12:07:25 PM »
Thanks Sabe! Very informative!
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2008, 12:32:59 PM »
Let's all go through 2009 BETTER than we are leaving 2008. Let's show how much we appreciate the privilege to create music and play our instruments. Work made the accomplishments of Jordan not the shoes. Invest in the principle, it lasts longer than the shoes and has a greater benefit to the kingdom and the world.
Try not to become a person of success but rather a person of VALUE. - T. Harv Eker

Offline fretai03

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2008, 01:26:54 PM »
I spent all of yesterday digesting this article & I'm coming to grips with the concept however I do have one question...

When switching from 1 meter to another, can you start your new meter on the 2, 3, or 4 of the original meter to further add rhythmic tension or do you always have to start on the 1?

Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 05:00:05 AM »
I spent all of yesterday digesting this article & I'm coming to grips with the concept however I do have one question...

When switching from 1 meter to another, can you start your new meter on the 2, 3, or 4 of the original meter to further add rhythmic tension or do you always have to start on the 1?

You can for polyrhythms sake but even then by definition the patterns are supposed to be simultaneous so it would really not be legit. But Mendoza or someone can correct me if I am wrong, PLEASE.
You can fake starting on a different beat by placing rests on the beginning notes of the pattern/phrase. All in all you have to find your way back to the one in most cases to be effective.
Check out Pet Magadini and Gary Chaffee. As well look in to some of the studies on Indian Rhythms as well as Gavin Harrison as mentioned by Mendoza.  I personally found Joe Franco's book, Double Bass Drumming to be very helpful in clarifying how accents/syncopation actually creates the the modulation effect. Along with explaination of polyrhythms given in the book 4-Way Co-ordination in which they authors explain that you must be able to hear multiple rhythms at the same time. This really made Chris Coleman's demonstration of deconstructing the Bimbe pattern, I think it was, on his DVD make since in this grand scheme. It is all about independence/interdependence of hearing facilitated through control of your limbs and your choice of voicings. You can split a pattern over different voicings and simulate a polyrhythm and fake a modulation with that single pattern especially in an odd time. This is even the more effective when you have mastered subdivision in the Table of Time from Master Studies I & II and the "swing" factor.
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Offline MENDOZA

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 07:24:29 AM »
I spent all of yesterday digesting this article & I'm coming to grips with the concept however I do have one question...

When switching from 1 meter to another, can you start your new meter on the 2, 3, or 4 of the original meter to further add rhythmic tension or do you always have to start on the 1?

WOW!!  Great questions and Sabe awesome response!!!  Dude, this is what LGM SHOULD be about.  Ok here's my take.  You can add rhythmic tension by starting the new meter on the 2,3, 4, etc.  The main thing that Sabe said is that you need to land on the one.  So sometimes you are going to have to start on 2, 3, 4, etc. in order to land on one.  In addition, you might have to start on another SUBDIVISION.  For instance, the "e,an,a, etc."  Or in a triplet partial.  So it's all relative of where you want to end the phrase.  You don't always have to land on the one, but it's more suggested because it's easier on the ear.  However, when you hear Vinnie, he'll place it where ever he feels is appropriate for the music.  Which most of the time he doesn't land on the one because he wants to creat more tension, so he'll superimpose something else to land on the one.  Same deal with Chris Dave, if you look at the transcription that I did on him (just use the search engine I did it a while ago).  You'll see that he superimposes a 5/16 over the 3/4 Time signature.  It's all a matter of trying out new things.  However, I would definetly suggest getting into some polyrhythms because when you superimposed or modulate into a new meter, you have to be able to hear 2 or more rhythms happening at the same time. You can easily to this with an easy rock groove. 

Here's an example:  Play 8th notes on hi hat, then assuming you have a 5 piece kit, put the 8th notes on each tom, but start from the floor tom, mid, and then hi tom and repeat.  Notice you have a 3 note grouping.  Then you'll have the bass drum on 1 and 3 and the snare on 2 and 4.  You'll notice that there is a polyrhythm happening, even though you're still playing a "4/4" groove inside of it is a superimposed phrasing.  By you switching the sound source you are creating tension and starting to hear these polyrhythms.  However, do not confuse displacement and modulation.  These are two totally different concepts.  I could get into it, but I have to head back to work.  I hope this helps.  Take care and God Bless.

Carlito

p.s. again, this is what LGM is about, let's get the fire back on the forum, it's been weak IMO.  Not ALOT of knowledge being brought lately and I'm sorry I haven't contributed too much.  I'll make sure to contribute more frequently.  Much love and respect.

Offline tko05

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2008, 09:54:48 AM »
You can for polyrhythms sake but even then by definition the patterns are supposed to be simultaneous so it would really not be legit. But Mendoza or someone can correct me if I am wrong, PLEASE.
You can fake starting on a different beat by placing rests on the beginning notes of the pattern/phrase. All in all you have to find your way back to the one in most cases to be effective.
Check out Pet Magadini and Gary Chaffee. As well look in to some of the studies on Indian Rhythms as well as Gavin Harrison as mentioned by Mendoza.  I personally found Joe Franco's book, Double Bass Drumming to be very helpful in clarifying how accents/syncopation actually creates the the modulation effect. Along with explaination of polyrhythms given in the book 4-Way Co-ordination in which they authors explain that you must be able to hear multiple rhythms at the same time. This really made Chris Coleman's demonstration of deconstructing the Bimbe pattern, I think it was, on his DVD make since in this grand scheme. It is all about independence/interdependence of hearing facilitated through control of your limbs and your choice of voicings. You can split a pattern over different voicings and simulate a polyrhythm and fake a modulation with that single pattern especially in an odd time. This is even the more effective when you have mastered subdivision in the Table of Time from Master Studies I & II and the "swing" factor.

WOW!!  Great questions and Sabe awesome response!!!  Dude, this is what LGM SHOULD be about.  Ok here's my take.  You can add rhythmic tension by starting the new meter on the 2,3, 4, etc.  The main thing that Sabe said is that you need to land on the one.  So sometimes you are going to have to start on 2, 3, 4, etc. in order to land on one.  In addition, you might have to start on another SUBDIVISION.  For instance, the "e,an,a, etc."  Or in a triplet partial.  So it's all relative of where you want to end the phrase.  You don't always have to land on the one, but it's more suggested because it's easier on the ear.  However, when you hear Vinnie, he'll place it where ever he feels is appropriate for the music.  Which most of the time he doesn't land on the one because he wants to creat more tension, so he'll superimpose something else to land on the one.  Same deal with Chris Dave, if you look at the transcription that I did on him (just use the search engine I did it a while ago).  You'll see that he superimposes a 5/16 over the 3/4 Time signature.  It's all a matter of trying out new things.  However, I would definetly suggest getting into some polyrhythms because when you superimposed or modulate into a new meter, you have to be able to hear 2 or more rhythms happening at the same time. You can easily to this with an easy rock groove. 

Here's an example:  Play 8th notes on hi hat, then assuming you have a 5 piece kit, put the 8th notes on each tom, but start from the floor tom, mid, and then hi tom and repeat.  Notice you have a 3 note grouping.  Then you'll have the bass drum on 1 and 3 and the snare on 2 and 4.  You'll notice that there is a polyrhythm happening, even though you're still playing a "4/4" groove inside of it is a superimposed phrasing.  By you switching the sound source you are creating tension and starting to hear these polyrhythms.  However, do not confuse displacement and modulation.  These are two totally different concepts.  I could get into it, but I have to head back to work.  I hope this helps.  Take care and God Bless.

Carlito

p.s. again, this is what LGM is about, let's get the fire back on the forum, it's been weak IMO.  Not ALOT of knowledge being brought lately and I'm sorry I haven't contributed too much.  I'll make sure to contribute more frequently.  Much love and respect.


WooW This is some great knowledge!! Off to the practice room!
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Offline SabianKnight

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008, 03:29:58 PM »
WOW!!  Great questions and Sabe awesome response!!!  Dude, this is what LGM SHOULD be about.  Ok here's my take.  You can add rhythmic tension by starting the new meter on the 2,3, 4, etc.  The main thing that Sabe said is that you need to land on the one.  So sometimes you are going to have to start on 2, 3, 4, etc. in order to land on one.  In addition, you might have to start on another SUBDIVISION.  For instance, the "e,an,a, etc."  Or in a triplet partial.  So it's all relative of where you want to end the phrase.  You don't always have to land on the one, but it's more suggested because it's easier on the ear.  However, when you hear Vinnie, he'll place it where ever he feels is appropriate for the music.  Which most of the time he doesn't land on the one because he wants to creat more tension, so he'll superimpose something else to land on the one.  Same deal with Chris Dave, if you look at the transcription that I did on him (just use the search engine I did it a while ago).  You'll see that he superimposes a 5/16 over the 3/4 Time signature.  It's all a matter of trying out new things.  However, I would definetly suggest getting into some polyrhythms because when you superimposed or modulate into a new meter, you have to be able to hear 2 or more rhythms happening at the same time. You can easily to this with an easy rock groove. 

Here's an example:  Play 8th notes on hi hat, then assuming you have a 5 piece kit, put the 8th notes on each tom, but start from the floor tom, mid, and then hi tom and repeat.  Notice you have a 3 note grouping.  Then you'll have the bass drum on 1 and 3 and the snare on 2 and 4.  You'll notice that there is a polyrhythm happening, even though you're still playing a "4/4" groove inside of it is a superimposed phrasing.  By you switching the sound source you are creating tension and starting to hear these polyrhythms.  However, do not confuse displacement and modulation.  These are two totally different concepts.  I could get into it, but I have to head back to work.  I hope this helps.  Take care and God Bless.

Carlito

p.s. again, this is what LGM is about, let's get the fire back on the forum, it's been weak IMO.  Not ALOT of knowledge being brought lately and I'm sorry I haven't contributed too much.  I'll make sure to contribute more frequently.  Much love and respect.

Yes sir the Drum Room IS DEFINITELY GETTING BACK TO THE KNOWLEDGE BIZ.

The example exercise you gave is how I discovered this modulation melody thing. I was messing with some Afro-Cuban rhythms and applying some triangular movement techniques like Marco Minnemann in his Extreme Interdependence book as well breaking my kit up triangular sound quadrants ie. 3 voicings per quadrant.
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Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: Metric Modulation Study/Lesson
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2008, 03:55:47 PM »
WOW!!  Great questions and Sabe awesome response!!!  Dude, this is what LGM SHOULD be about.  Ok here's my take.  You can add rhythmic tension by starting the new meter on the 2,3, 4, etc.  The main thing that Sabe said is that you need to land on the one.  So sometimes you are going to have to start on 2, 3, 4, etc. in order to land on one.  In addition, you might have to start on another SUBDIVISION.  For instance, the "e,an,a, etc."  Or in a triplet partial.  So it's all relative of where you want to end the phrase.  You don't always have to land on the one, but it's more suggested because it's easier on the ear.  However, when you hear Vinnie, he'll place it where ever he feels is appropriate for the music.  Which most of the time he doesn't land on the one because he wants to creat more tension, so he'll superimpose something else to land on the one.  Same deal with Chris Dave, if you look at the transcription that I did on him (just use the search engine I did it a while ago).  You'll see that he superimposes a 5/16 over the 3/4 Time signature.  It's all a matter of trying out new things.  However, I would definetly suggest getting into some polyrhythms because when you superimposed or modulate into a new meter, you have to be able to hear 2 or more rhythms happening at the same time. You can easily to this with an easy rock groove. 

Here's an example:  Play 8th notes on hi hat, then assuming you have a 5 piece kit, put the 8th notes on each tom, but start from the floor tom, mid, and then hi tom and repeat.  Notice you have a 3 note grouping.  Then you'll have the bass drum on 1 and 3 and the snare on 2 and 4.  You'll notice that there is a polyrhythm happening, even though you're still playing a "4/4" groove inside of it is a superimposed phrasing.  By you switching the sound source you are creating tension and starting to hear these polyrhythms.  However, do not confuse displacement and modulation.  These are two totally different concepts.  I could get into it, but I have to head back to work.  I hope this helps.  Take care and God Bless.

Carlito

p.s. again, this is what LGM is about, let's get the fire back on the forum, it's been weak IMO.  Not ALOT of knowledge being brought lately and I'm sorry I haven't contributed too much.  I'll make sure to contribute more frequently.  Much love and respect.


Yup!  I just applied this to the drum set!  Good stuff Doza!
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