IS IT JUST ME?

[Main5playah]

Is it just me, but why is it that every time we have rehearsal and I learn the song as we are suppose to play it on Sunday, when Sunday rolls around and we begin to minister the song it is totally different, from the intro to the outro.

As a Bass player I truly hate this, the hours spent determining when the right riff should be used, timing etc. I totally understand and accept the fact that the spirit can take over and I encourage that, but it shouldn't totally change the format of the song.

[ddwilkins]

Its called the holy spirit. It happens to all of us. Its called being able to minister in the spirit. It happened today with me. I've been in situations when we did totally different songs.

[Fenix]

I think he is talking about the fact that the singers mess up things like the intro and change the arrangement and such. I remember i HATED this with the less experienced P&W leaders who would just switch up the arrangement.

After a while you just take it in stride and try to match the singer.

[Quebass86]

Is it just me, but why is it that every time we have rehearsal and I learn the song as we are suppose to play it on Sunday, when Sunday rolls around and we begin to minister the song it is totally different, from the intro to the outro.

As a Bass player I truly hate this, the hours spent determining when the right riff should be used, timing etc. I totally understand and accept the fact that the spirit can take over and I encourage that, but it shouldn't totally change the format of the song.

No my friend, it isn't just you. I feel you and know exactly what you mean. It is very disturbing.

[floaded27]

Its called the holy spirit. It happens to all of us. Its called being able to minister in the spirit. It happened today with me. I've been in situations when we did totally different songs.

sometimes it is, but i think there are a lot of times when people just use that as an excuse to do whatever they want to do, or just are clueless about how things are supposed to go. i think more often than not, you can tell the difference between which one is happening.

main5, u not alone by any means. it gets annoying, but sometimes it makes u a better player because it makes u adjust, and it makes u a better person because it teaches u how to be patient, humble and weather the storm.

[malthumb]

Is it just me, but why is it that every time we have rehearsal and I learn the song as we are suppose to play it on Sunday, when Sunday rolls around and we begin to minister the song it is totally different, from the intro to the outro.

As a Bass player I truly hate this, the hours spent determining when the right riff should be used, timing etc. I totally understand and accept the fact that the spirit can take over and I encourage that, but it shouldn't totally change the format of the song.

You are not alone.  One of the things I like about one of the churches I play with is that we have a "brush-up" at 10:00 on Sunday, before the 11:00 service.  Doesn't PREVENT what you describe, but it does minimize it.  There is still the variable of having folks who weren't there on Thursday influence the flow of the material on Sunday.

One of the things I don't like is that lately we've been getting more and more "suggestions" at the start of the service to just drop in somebody's favorite song.  This church revolves the choir director role.  The late hour changes seem to be happening more with the person who is currently directing.  I think she doesn't feel empowered to say "no" to whomever is delivering the word that day. The last director had no problem with that, especially if the musicians said "ain't happenin'".

[ddwilkins]

its still ministering in the spirit. That's why I never practice where to place a lick. I just play what I'm feeling at the time. I've played licks that I can't duplicate now. Also, you have to look at the atmosphere of the service. I've seen where at the beginning of service where people are praying and the holy spirit comes and people are laid out before the first song is sung. The first song would be the praise song that we rehearsed in practice, but we never do it because the atmosphere is set totally different, and we'll pull out a worship song and roll with it. Although practice is essential, there's a reason why this saying is at the bottom of church programs, "The service is subject to change as the spirit of the Lord leads."

[Bullitt]

its still ministering in the spirit. That's why I never practice where to place a lick. I just play what I'm feeling at the time. I've played licks that I can't duplicate now. Also, you have to look at the atmosphere of the service. I've seen where at the beginning of service where people are praying and the holy spirit comes and people are laid out before the first song is sung. The first song would be the praise song that we rehearsed in practice, but we never do it because the atmosphere is set totally different, and we'll pull out a worship song and roll with it. Although practice is essential, there's a reason why this saying is at the bottom of church programs, "The service is subject to change as the spirit of the Lord leads."

+1 on all parts

When I was just starting out, I too was "annoyed" when things would change mid-service but as I grew spiritually and as a musician I began to better understand how the Holy Spirit operates. For the original poster, my advice would be to increase your time spent with God and with your instrument.

By that, I'm not saying that you don't have a realationship with God, but if you intensify it you'll be amazed by how the Spirit can use you even more.  I hope that didn't come across as being "holier than thou" lol


-J

[newbirthbass]

I just play what I'm feeling at the time. I've played licks that I can't duplicate now. Also, you have to look at the atmosphere of the service. I've seen where at the beginning of service where people are praying and the holy spirit comes and people are laid out before the first song is sung. The first song would be the praise song that we rehearsed in practice, but we never do it because the atmosphere is set totally different, and we'll pull out a worship song and roll with it. Although practice is essential, there's a reason why this saying is at the bottom of church programs, "The service is subject to change as the spirit of the Lord leads."

My thoughts exactly.  I used to get so upset about changing everything that we rehearsed but I accepted the fact that sometimes the spirit comes in and totally redoes the service and sometimes MOM or P&W Leader just wants to sing something different.  You can't control that but you can control the way you accept change and if you accept it in the right attitude and allow God to use you, there will be an annointing that falls on you playing that no amount of practice could give you. 

[floaded27]

based on the responses, it seems like my church is the only place this happens where its NOT under the leading of the Spirit. I mean it does happen that way sometimes, but there are times where that is not the case, sometimes where people who werent in rehearsal start saying what they want and dont want to sing and like malthumb said, you have people who seem to be inclined to satisfy everybody and cant say no, or you have people who didnt bother to practice/rehearse/learn the songs and forgot entire sections of songs and was making it up as they went along.

if God is a God of order, then why does the moving of the Spirit seem to be a cliche excuse for disorder?

[newbirthbass]

based on the responses, it seems like my church is the only place this happens where its NOT under the leading of the Spirit. I mean it does happen that way sometimes, but there are times where that is not the case, sometimes where people who werent in rehearsal start saying what they want and dont want to sing and like malthumb said, you have people who seem to be inclined to satisfy everybody and cant say no, or you have people who didnt bother to practice/rehearse/learn the songs and forgot entire sections of songs and was making it up as they went along.

if God is a God of order, then why does the moving of the Spirit seem to be a cliche excuse for disorder?

Oh its not just your church that it happens like that.  Like I said earlier, sometimes people just decide to do thing differntly it does cause dissorder and sometimes even quinches the spirit.  That's because people get caught up in self.  Example: Yesterday at our choir day the spirit was high and it was one of those get up on your feet spirits but not quited take off and run spirits but our piano player got caught up in his self and decided to start off the shout music.  Needless to say, it fizziled out so we moved on to the next song.  So is change always spirit driven?  Absolutely not but when it is you will know and when its not there will be dissorder.  God is a God of order but its when we are led by our own will that things become disorderly.

[mjl422]

sometimes it is, but i think there are a lot of times when people just use that as an excuse to do whatever they want to do, or just are clueless about how things are supposed to go. i think more often than not, you can tell the difference between which one is happening.

IA. Many times people use that as an excuse.  Remember, the spirit is subject to the Prophet. Also, the spirit doesn't dwell in the midst of confusion.  While I agree that the OP should allow for more spontaneity in his playing, there's no reason why "the spirit" would need to change the form of the song.  I've been to many professional concerts, where the spirit moved mightily but, the songs were played true to form. 

Maybe I'm confusing what the OP means when he talks about changing the "form" of the song. But, to rehearse a song one way and completely change it when it's being ministered sounds like confusion to me.   

[Main5playah]

I thank you for allowing me to vent out my frustration, A seasoned saint will discuss matters of such with his brethren/Sisters to resolve the issue. Each of you have provided clarity for me. I know its not about me it is truly about God, I just simply want my ensemble to be in the spirit as well as in concert with one another, understanding the progressions and to some extent remaining within the foundation of the song being ministered. The best sounding choirs communicate with each other, as well as the musicians. Within any band you have strengths and weaknesses, it is imperative to ensure that everyone in the band at least knows the fundamentals of the song. That does not always happen currently were I worship. I've talked with our M.O.M. several times about having a musicians rehearsal so that we can learn each others style and preferences of playing. To date it has not come to fruition.
I ask all of you collectively to pray for me, as I humble myself without selling out myself to be still and patient.

[ddwilkins]

I thank you for allowing me to vent out my frustration, A seasoned saint will discuss matters of such with his brethren/Sisters to resolve the issue. Each of you have provided clarity for me. I know its not about me it is truly about God, I just simply want my ensemble to be in the spirit as well as in concert with one another, understanding the progressions and to some extent remaining within the foundation of the song being ministered. The best sounding choirs communicate with each other, as well as the musicians. Within any band you have strengths and weaknesses, it is imperative to ensure that everyone in the band at least knows the fundamentals of the song. That does not always happen currently were I worship. I've talked with our M.O.M. several times about having a musicians rehearsal so that we can learn each others style and preferences of playing. To date it has not come to fruition.
I ask all of you collectively to pray for me, as I humble myself without selling out myself to be still and patient.

You are correct about reheasals for musicians. Since you've addressed this with the MOM and he/she hasn't done anything, then I think you should address the pastor. I totally understand where you are coming from. You want everyone to be on one accord. And with that, when everyone is together, and a sudden change happens, the spirit will not be hindered. You speak as a seasoned saint who values his gift of ministry as well as the holy spirit.

[momuzik]

...While I agree that the OP should allow for more spontaneity in his playing, there's no reason why "the spirit" would need to change the form of the song...

Man, you ought to stop by our church; if you trip and fall on the keyboard, somebody will throw in some lyrics and make a song from it. and what's funny about it, some of these "off-the-cuff" songs be sounding nice.

... I've talked with our M.O.M. several times about having a musicians rehearsal so that we can learn each others style and preferences of playing. To date it has not come to fruition...

That doesn't sound like a hard thing to do: try meeting your musicians a little bit before rehearsal or stay back for a little while after rehearsal. I don't think you need to call a meeting with you pastor to make that happen.
Maybe you all could even meet at somebody's house.

[floaded27]

That doesn't sound like a hard thing to do: try meeting your musicians a little bit before rehearsal or stay back for a little while after rehearsal. I don't think you need to call a meeting with you pastor to make that happen.

it can be quite frustrating. after service sometimes the organist starts playing songs we dont even sing at our church. but the whole service he was struggling and fumbling to play the songs we do sing. so to avoid the whole conversation of "why dont u bother learning stuff that u need to know to play here" i just get up and walk away till he leaves and then if time permits i may jam with my drummer. i remember i used to stay but he'd play Byron Cage's "I will bless the Lord" every sunday after service for like 4 months straight (so im like "let me know when ya'll decide to play something else") but then one sunday afternoon we was gonna do that for P&W and he acted like he didnt know how to play it. after that, i was like i cant be bothered with this dude.

[Main5playah]

Man, you ought to stop by our church; if you trip and fall on the keyboard, somebody will throw in some lyrics and make a song from it. and what's funny about it, some of these "off-the-cuff" songs be sounding nice.


That doesn't sound like a hard thing to do: try meeting your musicians a little bit before rehearsal or stay back for a little while after rehearsal. I don't think you need to call a meeting with you pastor to make that happen.
Maybe you all could even meet at somebody's house.

That sounds like a skit off of Living Color, Wanna-Hear-a-Song OK-Hear-It-Goes!
LOL, Too Funny!!!

[Torch7]

Main5playah... I feel ya br'er... been there.

I feel what everyone is saying about playing as the Spirit leads, but I also see what floaded27 is saying and think, sometimes the Spirit's {quote} {unquote} leading is a figment of the musicians imagination.

Case in point if the song is in 6/8 and the drummer is feeling led to play in 4/4 -- ahem... Somebody misinterpreted the leading of the Spirit.  There are so many aspect to a song, that everyone needs to be on the same page.  If there is confusion amongst the musicians, there needs to be an understanding, that we can't all be lead in different directions.  If you are not the leader, then follow what the leader has planned to do.  If the leader is the one changing things up follow them as best you can.

[betnich]

I feel what everyone is saying about playing as the Spirit leads, but I also see what floaded27 is saying and think, sometimes the Spirit's {quote} {unquote} leading is a figment of the musicians imagination.
Case in point if the song is in 6/8 and the drummer is feeling led to play in 4/4 -- ahem... Somebody misinterpreted the leading of the Spirit.  There are so many aspect to a song, that everyone needs to be on the same page.  If there is confusion amongst the musicians, there needs to be an understanding, that we can't all be lead in different directions.  If you are not the leader, then follow what the leader has planned to do.  If the leader is the one changing things up follow them as best you can.

Ah....the "uncertain trumpet"
Sometimes there's a fine line between "leading of the Spirit" and someone's ego...

[newbirthbass]

Ah....the "uncertain trumpet"
Sometimes there's a fine line between "leading of the Spirit" and someone's ego...

so true...