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Author Topic: Gospel musicians playing secular music  (Read 32600 times)

Offline Christlike1984

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #120 on: October 11, 2009, 10:13:25 PM »
I see your point J.  But my question is, why would Paul say to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord; Then go on to say that when Christ returns we will not  only be in bodies but new incorruptible bodies 1 Cor.15:51-56?  So if we shall recieve new bodies but he also says to be absent from our bodies is to be present with the Lord. doesn't that mean our spirit goes to be with the Lord.  Even so in the Gospel Jesus made the point that God is the God of the living not the dead Matt 22:29-32.  When he was transfigured before the Apostle's who appeared before him taling to him?  We can say it was just a vision but niether the Apostles nor Christ said as such.  Just something to think about.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he can never lose." Jim Elliot

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #121 on: October 12, 2009, 08:57:45 AM »
I see your point J.  But my question is, why would Paul say to be absent from the body is to be present from the Lord; Then go on to say that when Christ returns we will not  only be in bodies but new incorruptible bodies 1 Cor.15:51-56?  So if we shall recieve new bodies but he also says to be absent from our bodies is to be present with the Lord. doesn't that mean our spirit goes to be with the Lord.  Even so in the Gospel Jesus made the point that God is the God of the living not the dead Matt 22:29-32.  When he was transfigured before the Apostle's who appeared before him taling to him?  We can say it was just a vision but niether the Apostles nor Christ said as such.  Just something to think about.

Great points! Now lets dig in.

First you are absolutely right that our spirits will go to be with the Lord, I'm not against that, however i think it's the TIME that when our we will go to be with God.

I'll start off by quoting the text that you mentioned (1 Cor. 15:51-56).  I personally LOVE this text because it lets us know what we are to expect on with the second coming of Christ.

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1 Cor. 15:51-56
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed? 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[a]
 55"Where, O death, is your victory?
      Where, O death, is your sting?" 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

Verse 52 stats that the dead will be raised "imperishable and we will be changed".  Please note that the dead are raised changed already so if they are already in heaven why would they need to be raised changed?  That method just wouldn't add up for God.  For him to send his saints down from heaven back into the grave only to rise again to be with him.

Verse 51 states that we will not all sleep but will be changed however we must note that it states in verse 52 when this will happen.  It is said to happen at the "last trumpet".

Now to understand the last trumpet we must dive into the book of Revelations which is filled with symbolisms which are answered through the bible as well as end time Prophecy. In Revelations there is a three-fold view of history from apostolic days until the end of time.  This being the Seven Churches, the Seven Seals, and the Seven trumpets.

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Rev 11:15-19
 15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
   "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
      and he will reign for ever and ever." 16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:
   "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
      the One who is and who was,
   because you have taken your great power
      and have begun to reign.
 18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
   The time has come for judging the dead,
      and for rewarding your servants the prophets
   and your saints and those who reverence your name,
      both small and great?
   and for destroying those who destroy the earth."
 19Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

The sounding of the 7th trumpet is the end of this world as we know it and the second coming of Christ.   Judgement begins in heaven
 and in order for God to judge the dead, the dead in christ must rise first. 

Now lets take a look at your mention of Matt 22:29-32   however i'm going to extend the quote back a couple of verses so we can get what Jesus was talking about
Quote
Matt 22:25-32
25Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:

 26Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.

 27And last of all the woman died also.

 28Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

 29Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

 30For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

 31But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

 32I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

This all starts with the Sadducees who were trying to corner Jesus because they didn't believe in the resurrection nor life after death.  This is  why they ask about who's wife the woman will be after death. 

So now we must look at if we as really ever die since Jesus as confirmed that there will be a resurrection. Now the question is why did he state that he is the God of the living and not the dead?

If we look at John 11:25 Jesus answers this directly for us.

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John 11:25
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Anyone that believe in Christ shall not spiritually die.  So if Christ has confirmed that there will be a resurrection and has also confirmed that those that believe in him shall not die then he has stated that God is the God of those that are living (those that believe and have accepted him wether they be dead or alive).

Now as for those that don't accept him we know that their physical body and their souls shall perish in Hell.

Matthew 10:28 Jesus states
Quote
(Mat 10:28 NASB)  "And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul;but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Paul clarifies the resurection for us a little bit clearer as well in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15

Quote
(1 Th 4:13 NASB)  But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve, as do the rest who have no hope.
(1 Th 4:14 NASB)  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
(1 Th 4:15 NASB)  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.

The dead in christ are merely sleeping awaing for Christ to return again.




Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline floaded27

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #122 on: October 12, 2009, 10:38:51 AM »
First you are absolutely right that our spirits will go to be with the Lord, I'm not against that, however i think it's the TIME that when our we will go to be with God.

dont have any scripture for this...but i conceptualize it as in the realm of the spirit the notion of time doesnt exist as it does in this natural realm (could that be why "that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day [2Pet3:8]?) so for the dead going to the Lord is instant, whereas for us, time passes as we live.

The dead in christ are merely sleeping awaing for Christ to return again.

this puts that into perspective. you ever went to bed at night and your alarm clock went off and u like "dang, i JUST laid down". For you because you were sleep, awakening felt almost instantaneous, but in actually a full 8 hours or so had passed. With no consciousness or awareness of time, its instant for you. To go further, think about a coma patient. i think it might be a similar occurrence.
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Offline jeremyr

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #123 on: October 12, 2009, 11:14:23 AM »
dont have any scripture for this...but i conceptualize it as in the realm of the spirit the notion of time doesnt exist as it does in this natural realm (could that be why "that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day [2Pet3:8]?) so for the dead going to the Lord is instant, whereas for us, time passes as we live.

this puts that into perspective. you ever went to bed at night and your alarm clock went off and u like "dang, i JUST laid down". For you because you were sleep, awakening felt almost instantaneous, but in actually a full 8 hours or so had passed. With no consciousness or awareness of time, its instant for you. To go further, think about a coma patient. i think it might be a similar occurrence.

interesting theory, however I would challenge it with this.

Though one day with the lord may be as 1000 years if you're dead on this earth and you haven't been through the resurrection you are still conformed to the boundaries of this world (time).  So if you died in 2000 and it's 2009 you have been dead 9 years and there's nothing that you can do about it.

In regards to the coma patient, even though he doesn't realize that time has passed by, it has.  He wakes up 10 years later and wether he likes it or not it's still 2009 and not 1999 like he remembered.

All the scriptures that speak on the topic all point back to one thing.  A second resurrection where the dead in christ will rise at the sound of the last trumpet.

But let's not to too caught up on it because the right view on the state of the dead will not get you into heaven.  I simply want to make sure that people are reading their bibles in it's entirety.

If anyone can show me in the word where the dead are directly taken to heaven (and it's not an interpretation because interpretations can get us into some serious mess) then I will accept it as I just want to follow the word.

Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline floaded27

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #124 on: October 12, 2009, 12:51:22 PM »
interesting theory, however I would challenge it with this.

i know everything ur saying. it wasnt a theory to be proven or disproved. it was a perspective, my perspective into what would be the state of yourself once you die (i dont know, none of us do). i dont think it would be as ur saying "man ive been dead for 1000 years already. when is He coming back?" For the dead, i believe it would seem instant because they have no knowledge of time, and the examples i gave i believe illustrated that concept. I also think these 2 scriptures touch on what im trying to say.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Eccl 9:5

"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest." Eccl 9:10


In regards to the coma patient, even though he doesn't realize that time has passed by, it has.  He wakes up 10 years later and wether he likes it or not it's still 2009 and not 1999 like he remembered.
does he always realize how much time has passed? he could think it was an hour or so, and it couldve been years. how would u know? you wouldnt, until you woke up (resurrected).

All the scriptures that speak on the topic all point back to one thing.  A second resurrection where the dead in christ will rise at the sound of the last trumpet.
i hope u dont think i was trying to say this was wrong.

If anyone can show me in the word where the dead are directly taken to heaven (and it's not an interpretation because interpretations can get us into some serious mess) then I will accept it as I just want to follow the word.
i also hope u dont think i was trying to say this.
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #125 on: October 12, 2009, 01:05:35 PM »


does he always realize how much time has passed? he could think it was an hour or so, and it couldve been years. how would u know? you wouldnt, until you woke up (resurrected).
i hope u dont think i was trying to say this was wrong.
i also hope u dont think i was trying to say this.

gotcha!  I agree.  I must've just read if wrong (darn internet).

I don't know if they'll know how long they've been asleep when they rise, but I'm sure they'll find out.

I know for sure that the wicked dead will end up knowing  because they have the 1000 years to be judged so they'll get the word sooner or later.

Somebody put me in the key of E#

Offline under13

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #126 on: October 12, 2009, 01:07:53 PM »
yall still goin at it? ?/? :D

Offline MyVirtue

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #127 on: October 12, 2009, 01:23:52 PM »
yall still goin at it? ?/? :D

HAAH.. that's what i was saying. lol.. every time i check the new replies, i'm like... WOW, they've even switched subjects... and i'm not mingling in this one. lol... sending you a PM U...
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Offline ssab

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #128 on: October 12, 2009, 01:30:46 PM »
What happen! What did i miss? ?/?

Offline jeremyr

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #129 on: October 12, 2009, 01:43:59 PM »
HAAH.. that's what i was saying. lol.. every time i check the new replies, i'm like... WOW, they've even switched subjects... and i'm not mingling in this one. lol... sending you a PM U...

what you doing with a bass in your avatar?  You trying to get a bunch of guys on here a stroke!  LOL!
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Offline MyVirtue

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #130 on: October 12, 2009, 02:06:44 PM »
what you doing with a bass in your avatar?  You trying to get a bunch of guys on here a stroke!  LOL!

HAHAHAHAHA... you stupid. lol
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Offline floaded27

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #131 on: October 12, 2009, 02:07:14 PM »
HAAH.. that's what i was saying. lol.. every time i check the new replies, i'm like... WOW, they've even switched subjects... and i'm not mingling in this one. lol... sending you a PM U...

we havent had one of these multi-page, multi-topic threads in a good while. ahhh memories. lol.
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Offline floaded27

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #132 on: October 12, 2009, 02:09:27 PM »
we havent had one of these multi-page, multi-topic threads in a good while. ahhh memories. lol.

actually, i think they always start with the secular music topic....then we ride that train to the last stop. lol.



what you doing with a bass in your avatar?  You trying to get a bunch of guys on here a stroke!  LOL!

yeah, somebody here probably already playing out of tune.
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline MyVirtue

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #133 on: October 12, 2009, 02:12:36 PM »
actually, i think they always start with the secular music topic....then we ride that train to the last stop. lol.



yeah, somebody here probably already playing out of tune.

You all dont hang out in the gospel music lounge? threads are always getting hijacked in the lounge. lol

and i'm sorry... lol  ::)
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Offline jeremyr

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #134 on: October 12, 2009, 02:13:38 PM »
yeah, somebody here probably already playing out of tune.

ROFL!!!!!! Speaking of out of tune a minister was "tuning up" during the morning prayer this past sunday at the Baptist church I play at and I promise my man was in the key of C+/-   :D :D :D
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Offline floaded27

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #135 on: October 12, 2009, 02:32:41 PM »
ROFL!!!!!! Speaking of out of tune a minister was "tuning up" during the morning prayer this past sunday at the Baptist church I play at and I promise my man was in the key of C+/-   :D :D :D

oh yeah. the key of C average. i think thats a common soloist key. lol
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Offline Mysteryman

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #136 on: October 12, 2009, 02:39:28 PM »
Nothing like a skilled musician who can follow anybody though. I've seen very few guys that can do it. That why I wish I had really studied jazz in a school.
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Offline Kelz-Da-Basshead

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #137 on: October 12, 2009, 02:49:53 PM »
I want to take a jazz class at school but, i have to take a sight reading class first.
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Offline dhagler

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #138 on: October 12, 2009, 04:21:49 PM »
I want to take a jazz class at school but, i have to take a sight reading class first.

I teach at a community college and I play with our Jazz Ensemble. My sight reading has grown by leaps and bounds...mostly because it had to or else they wouldn't let me play! ;D

Offline FenderJazzGuy

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Re: Gospel musicians playing secular music
« Reply #139 on: October 12, 2009, 08:05:00 PM »
Yes this has taken a mind of it's own....lol. WHat were we originally talking about anyways? What collor is the best for bass? NO.....Maple or Rosewood fretboard? NO.....Who's the best bass player that plays harmonica? NO.......Which deodorant is best when playing Gospel music? IM LOST!!!
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