Gospel musicians playing secular music

[MyVirtue]

So what if you trip up while carrying the knife and stab yourself.

Well, this question takes CAREFUL analysis!!! CAREFUL ANALYSIS!!! 

[arthur59]

I know i have no right to be in the bass room... lol.. but, i have a right to my opinion and yall gon geddit! LOL!

Honestly, as enticing as singing and playing "wordly music" as my church calls it, I would not do it! I would not waste nor share ANY of my talent (not that i'm some great, talented chick, but ya know...) on the world. Yes, the pay is better and the face time can benefit the career of a 'professional' musician... but why take something the Lord gave you and give it back to the world?

The bible does say, "what does it profit a man to gain the WHOLE world, and loose his soul." Playing for secular, wordly, ungodly (whatever you wanna call it) artists is nothing but trying to gain the world... and in the end, what did it profit you? a few extra hundred dollars that you could have sat at a desk or fried some chicken for?! It aint worth it! The bible also says, "How can two walk together except they agree." which would lead me to question the Life lived by the "christian."

Why would you want to take you and your sanctified self to play for an artist that does not serve the same God you do... Yes, everyone is a Christian, everyone "loves God" but not everyone is serving Him.. not everyone knows Jesus to be their savior. Whether they are "devil worshiping" or not, you know the type of tree by the fruit it bears... I'll choose the tight life NOW and walk too holy rather than live a loose life now and not make it to Heaven later... i'd rather do too much than not enough.

But i'm not trying to tell anyone what to do... lol... not tryna be bossy and stuff... I'm just giving opinion; and sorry it was sooooooooooooo long! lol 

Good point,but I have a question,why would you want to take you and your sanctified self and work for an employer that does not serve the same God you do.... :

[malthumb]

HEY... my brother and I are ALWYAS in Philly... I think right outside of North Philly.. In Landsdowne (sp)... SO... where are ya? do you shed?

What he does is make some of the slammin-est bass guitars you've ever seen so that guys like Jeremyr can shed......


......and so that guys like me can walk around muttering "I don't need another bass....I don't need another bass.....I don't need another bass....but that Callowhill sure is swee.....I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BASS"

[floaded27]

What he does is make some of the slammin-est bass guitars you've ever seen so that guys like Jeremyr can shed......


......and so that guys like me can walk around muttering "I don't need another bass....I don't need another bass.....I don't need another bass....but that Callowhill sure is swee.....I DON'T NEED ANOTHER BASS"

tell me about it. if i play the lottery to get a Callowhill to play ONLY at church, will God bless my ticket? and i just realized that the bass player for The Roots plays Callowhills. (lately been playing the MDM5). so every night watchin the Jimmy Fallon show, i get G.A.S. lol.

hey Tim, whats up with ur website?

[MyVirtue]

Good point,but I have a question,why would you want to take you and your sanctified self and work for an employer that does not serve the same God you do.... :

Are you asking ME this question or are is it like a question for us to think about? Cuz I dont have a boss that serves another God... My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.

[FenderJazzGuy]

My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.

Are you saying that if someone is methodist, then they may NOT be saved? So someone is only saved based off of the denomination they belong?

[FenderJazzGuy]

Good point,but I have a question,why would you want to take you and your sanctified self and work for an employer that does not serve the same God you do.... :

Majority of us either work for OR have worked for an unbeliever. So, I don't understand that statement. As I believer, I should only accept employment from another believer? Im a barber so should I only cut the heads of believers?

[malthumb]

Majority of us either work for OR have worked for an unbeliever. So, I don't understand that statement. As I believer, I should only accept employment from another believer? Im a barber so should I only cut the heads of believers?

This actually gets to the root of the issue.  In a perfect world, everyone would be a believer.  But since the world is not perfect, we all must at some time or another interact with non-believers.

The issue is the extent to which we interact and how we ourselves are impacted by the interaction.

Me, personally, I know for a fact that I can interact musically with non-believers and not shake my faith.  Therefore, I am very comfortable playing secular music.  I'm also wise enough to know how to avoid playing music that is vulgar or demeaning to other rational people.


When we have jobs that help sustain our existence and the well-being of our families, we don't always have the luxury of determining whether or not to be in the company of non-believers.  When we have music as a vocation or a hobby or a ministry, we usually have an additional degree of freedom with regards to whom we want to associate and how.  Some choose to play secular (count me among them) some do not.  That is your preference that I will respect.  Please respect mine.

[betnich]

My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.

And you know this person's heart and status with God for sure? How?

 

[MyVirtue]

Are you saying that if someone is methodist, then they may NOT be saved? So someone is only saved based off of the denomination they belong?

NO!!! That's not what I'm saying at all! I said "she's Methodist" because I was not sharing the actual church name - I figured I'd share a clue.   

And you know this person's heart and status with God for sure? How?

 

The lack of dedication, actions and lifestyle tell me that clearly, she goes to this church because of ITS status... not because she knows, or wants to know Jesus as her savior; not because she's trying to live a life that is holy and acceptable unto God; she likes to say, "I go to such and such church." she thinks it's prestigious (sp probably dead wrong lol).

that's all I'm saying Arthor and Betnich... 

[Torch7]

For those who don't mind playing on secular gigs, do what you do, I ain't trippin' but please, please as you argue your point of view.  Don't utlize the work analogy, working for a secular employer, and playing secular music are not comparative.

However, the argument would hold water if you compared, something someone else deemed unacceptable, with a job your held unacceptable.

Biblically if you feel that it's within your liberty spiritually to play whatever you deem okay, do it ... That is between you and the Holy Spirit,  but you also should not flaunt that liberty before believers who do not have your liberty.

Now can we return to arguing over how modes should be approached?

[under13]

For those who don't mind playing on secular gigs, do what you do, I ain't trippin' but please, please as you argue your point of view.  Don't utlize the work analogy, working for a secular employer, and playing secular music are not comparative.

However, the argument would hold water if you compared, something someone else deemed unacceptable, with a job your held unacceptable.

Biblically if you feel that it's within your liberty spiritually to play whatever you deem okay, do it ... That is between you and the Holy Spirit,  but you also should not flaunt that liberty before believers who do not have your liberty.

Now can we return to arguing over how modes should be approached?

 I think that should go both ways

[Torch7]

I think that should go both ways

Note I placed "Biblically" @ the start of the part you highlighted.  The Bible gives us a picture of one and note neccesarily the other.
As a minster I am called to serve other believers, part of what God has entrusted me to do, is encourage,  exhort, preach, teach, undergird, advise, restore, lead..... the list goes on.  It would be impossible for me to fulfill my call, if I simply looked at areas that are permissable yet not expedient, in many lives, and not speak.  So when I respond on the boards, its not only for the sake of those who are actively involved in the conversation, but those who just watch the dialog.

So while I respect your position on the matter, we have to approach this discussion not just from a musical perspective, but from the perspective of every action of a believer. 

If it went both ways as you suggest, there would be no need  for the Church.  There would be no need for the 5-fold ministry component.  And ultimately everyone would do what's right in their own sight.

[malthumb]

For those who don't mind playing on secular gigs, do what you do, I ain't trippin' but please, please as you argue your point of view.  Don't utlize the work analogy, working for a secular employer, and playing secular music are not comparative.

However, the argument would hold water if you compared, something someone else deemed unacceptable, with a job your held unacceptable.

Biblically if you feel that it's within your liberty spiritually to play whatever you deem okay, do it ... That is between you and the Holy Spirit,  but you also should not flaunt that liberty before believers who do not have your liberty.

Now can we return to arguing over how modes should be approached?

As much as I understand what you say there in the BOLD text, I do think that this unfairly limits the discussion, debate, argument, or whatever we're calling this thread.  Most people can only relate or compare to things that are within their life experience.  Most people spend more time on their job than anywhere else.  Therefore, most of their experiences with the secular world will be through interactions on or related to the job or people they are exposed to through the job.  That makes choice of job as relevant as choice of music.

I guess one could ask if it is proper to eat at an establishment where the proprietors or those serving were not Christian.  That would actually be even more basic, since it gets into what you are comfortable taking into your body and whether or not it is touched by holy or unholy hands.  But how many of us ever take the time to try to know this?  I stand in admission that I am not one who seeks this information.  And given my propensity for Thai and Chinese food, it's probably safe to say that I eat at a lot of establishments where the owners and the servers are non-Christian.  This is where trust in humankind has value as a Christian trait.

[Torch7]

Again, Malthumb...  I understand, and respect the perspective of others who chose to play secular music.
I for one don't think you should throw the baby out with the bath water.  I think over the years my stance on the board has been one of it's not for me, because XYZ.

As I was trying to point out in the last post, I can only talk from the Bible, and since the Bible doesn't speak of to play or not to play.  I will not build a trench, and start a war at this matter.  The reason I say that the work scenario doesn't fit, what we consider secular is such a western way of thinking.  In some cultures if you are Christian it is in every fiber of your being, so if you are a waiter, you wait tables as unto the Lord.

Our culture has been very succesful in taking God & segregating him to Church. If I were a mailman, police officer, pilot, waiter I can do all these things as unto the Lord, and not compromise who I am.  There are event songs that are not Church songs, that I could play and not compromise who I am.  No song comes to mind, right now.  But I think the disconnect enters the discussion when we utilize the word secular and it equals bad. Secular  simply means seperate from religion.  As a believer, I should never be seperate from what I believe, therefore I shouldn't make a practice of participating in things separate from what I believe.   What makes a song a song?  The Lyrics.  So, the  question would be can I play/sing a song that doesn't necessarily glorify God? Yes/No/Maybe.  So when I chime into these discussions its always from the perspective of you shouldn't listen, nor play a song with lyrics contradictory to a believers lifestyle.  That's my stance, however, I don't think less of any believer that doesn't believe like I do.

You do however, bring up a interesting point about the food, and its also covered in the scriptures.

[Torch7]

Again, Malthumb...  I understand, and respect the perspective of others who chose to play secular music.
I for one don't think you should throw the baby out with the bath water.  I think over the years my stance on the board has been one of it's not for me, because XYZ.

As I was trying to point out in the last post, I can only talk from the Bible, and since the Bible doesn't speak of to play or not to play.  I will not build a trench, and start a war at this matter.  The reason I say that the work scenario doesn't fit, what we consider secular is such a western way of thinking.  In some cultures if you are Christian it is in every fiber of your being, so if you are a waiter, you wait tables as unto the Lord.

Our culture has been very succesful in taking God & segregating him to Church. If I were a mailman, police officer, pilot, waiter I can do all these things as unto the Lord, and not compromise who I am.  There are event songs that are not Church songs, that I could play and not compromise who I am.  No song comes to mind, right now.  But I think the disconnect enters the discussion when we utilize the word secular and it equals bad. Secular  simply means seperate from religion.  As a believer, I should never be seperate from what I believe, therefore I shouldn't make a practice of participating in things separate from what I believe.   What makes a song a song?  The Lyrics.  So, the  question would be can I play/sing a song that doesn't necessarily glorify God? Yes/No/Maybe.  So when I chime into these discussions its always from the perspective of you shouldn't listen, nor play a song with lyrics contradictory to a believers lifestyle.  That's my stance, however, I don't think less of any believer that doesn't believe like I do.

You do however, bring up a interesting point about the food, and its also covered in the scriptures.

I  typed all that out and didn't conclude.. There are songs that a Christian can play and  not compromise their walk.  There are vocations that Christians can work at and not compromise their walk.

[malthumb]

Torch7,

Glad you clarified your position.  Especially your definition / understanding of the word "secular".  I think a lot of the emotion on this topic comes from people interpreting it as "secular = bad".  I think your definition is closer to the way I at least think of it.  I look at secular as not being based in religion, as opposed to being apart from it.  The difference is probably splitting hairs.  And as you state, I steer away from songs where the lyrics are scandalous or degrading.  I must admit, that has not always been the case, but it certainly is now.

Funny how you mentioned event songs.  One day we were in the music room trying to add some new selections for the Praise Team and we started playing "I'll Take You There" by the Staple Singers.  Pastor just happened to be in the building and came in and shut us down.  Told us he would not go for us playing that in the church.  You woulda thought we were playing "Super Freak".  So then we started playing "Lean On Me".  He went into a long dissertation on how although it was an inspirational song, and maybe a song we could do at an event, he didn't want to hear it in a service.  Fast forward a few months.....He comes to me and tells me about this song he'd heard on the radio that he couldn't get out of his head and wanted me to teach it to the Praise Team.  He had a date already set because it fit with a sermon he had been planning.  It was "I Will Bless The Lord At All Times" by Joe Pace.  Of course, you probably already realize that the music under that song is a direct lift of "I'll Take You There".  Lyrics do make a difference.

[Torch7]

My bad that was a typo, I meant to say "even" not "event", but the point is still the same. 

[Shame218]

Are you asking ME this question or are is it like a question for us to think about? Cuz I dont have a boss that serves another God... My boss is not really saved, but she goes to... well.. the name shall not be disclosed.... lol she's Methodist.

No this is just a general question,I remember one time years ago I turend in my paper work to my boss and on the bottom of it I wrote "in jesus name" the next day he called me into the office and chwed me out for that.

So what's the difference?

[under13]

No this is just a general question,I remember one time years ago I turend in my paper work to my boss and on the bottom of it I wrote "in jesus name" the next day he called me into the office and chwed me out for that.

So what's the difference?

why did you write that on your work?