Confused on 9THS, 11THS, & 13THS. Why does the 5th keep dropping out?

[karendj]

I have a question about the these passing chords. What happened to the fifth?

.....
*the numbers in parenthesis are for the tempo


[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] F / A-Eb-G *added Eb and G to make an F9 chord
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] F-Eb / Bb-Eb-G *added an Eb major chord to make an Fm11
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2,3,4] F / C-F-A
[3,4] F-Eb / A-D-Gb *added a b9 and a 13 to make an F7 b9/13
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] A / C-F-A *1 chord, with 3 in the bass
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] B / A-Db-Eb-F *chord 1/2 step higher, B9 b5
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] B / A-Db-Eb-G *chord 1/2 step higher, B9 #5
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3] C / Bb-Eb-G *5 chord, Cm7
[4] F / A-Eb-G *1 chord, F9
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1] F / C-F-A
[2] G / B-F-A *2 chord, G9
[3] C / Bb-Eb-G *5 chord, Cm7
[4] F / A-Eb-G *1 chord, F9
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1] F / C-F-A
[2] D / C-F-A *6 chord, Dm7
[3] C / Bb-Eb-G *5 chord, Cm7
[4] F / A-Eb-G *1 chord, F9
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

This is how the pros do it.  They practice these moves over and over and over again until its a natural part of their music.  You can do the same thing.  If anyone has questions about what I've posted, feel free to ask!

F9 means F dominant right? A 9th is a dominant 7th plus an added nine. That means that should be FACEbG. Then what happened to the C? I've noticed that it keeps dropping out!!!!

Then on Fm11 the Ab and the C dropped out.

Lastly,on

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] B / A-Db-Eb-F *chord 1/2 step higher, B9 b5
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] B / A-Db-Eb-G *chord 1/2 step higher, B9 #5
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

This isn't a 1/2 step higher is it??? CFA a half step higher should be DbGbBb right? Then the b5 is Db and I don't know what B9 is. Why is it capitalized?

I've been studying this for two days, but these few things keep tripping me up. Thanks to anyone who would take the time to help a confused beginner.

[T-Block]

For any chord, the most important notes are the 1, 3, and 7th (for extended chords like 9th, 11th, etc.). The 5th doesn't do much but reinforce what the other notes do, so it can be ommitted at anytime.

Also, if u have enough of those other notes, the 5th somehow sounds automatically w/out u even having to hit it. Don't ask me how, I just know it does cuz we did the experiment in class. Try this:

C major chord: C-C / E-C-E

Now, listen really carefully, and u can hear the G sounding all by itself. Pretty neat huh?

[T-Block]

As for your other question, could u tell me where you found this posting? I don't really remember it, LOL. I'll have to go back and review the context of these chords to answer ur question.

That's the danger in just picking stuff out and asking about it. You have to look at the context of everything as a whole.

[karendj]

You are right the g is like a ghost. I can still hear it without playing it or rather the chord still sounds full. That is nice to know, because as a beginner having to play every Sunday I omitt a lot of notes because I just can't play them all yet.


Here is the link to that post.
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,63541.msg649472.html#msg649472

Also here is your post in its entirety.

You start by changing how u view passing chords.  Contrary to popular belief, passing chords are NOT a separate box of chords.  They are just regular chords used that aren't part of your basic progression pattern.

Next, you look at your basic progression pattern.  Find the spots where u stay on a chord for a while.  Look at those chords and the chords that follow them and see if u can throw in some logical chords that connect the 2 together.  Example:

1-4-5-6-7 progression
Key F  LH/RH [4/4 time count] 60-70bpm

[1,2,3,4] F / C-F-A
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D
[1,2,3,4] C / G-C-E
[1,2] D / Bb-D-F
[3,4] E / C-E-G

*the numbers in parenthesis are for the tempo

Now, look at the first 2 chords.  You see how u stay on the 1st chord for a full count.  Well, why not add a chord there instead of just staying on that a while.

Your next question is probably:  What are my options? To answer that question, u need to know what chords resolve or lead to 4.  Here are some great options:

Options Set #1

1 dominant type chord (7th, 9th, 11th, or 13th)
1 chord with the 3rd in the bass
b4 chord, *a chord 1/2 step above ur target chord

So, now that u got ur options, plug each one in and see if u like the sound:

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] F / C-Eb-F-A *added Eb to make an F7 chord
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] F / A-Eb-G *added Eb and G to make an F9 chord
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] F-Eb / Bb-Eb-G *added an Eb major chord to make an Fm11
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2,3,4] F / C-F-A
[3,4] F-Eb / A-D-Gb *added a b9 and a 13 to make an F7 b9/13
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] A / C-F-A *1 chord, with 3 in the bass
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] B / A-Db-Eb-F *chord 1/2 step higher, B9 b5
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3,4] B / A-Db-Eb-G *chord 1/2 step higher, B9 #5
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

Look at that, u got 7 options right there.  And u can even vary the rhythm in which u play those chords. U can bring the passing chord in on beat 2 or beat 3 which gives u 14 more options, for a total of 21 passing chord options right here.

Something else u can do is see if u can add in a passing chord "move", meaning playing more than one chord.  Knowing theory here is good.  The ZIP CODE IS: (7)-3-6-2-5-1-(4)

Now, using the 1st two chords of this progression example, u have a 1 going to a 4.  But, right before u get to 1, u have a 5, a 2-5, a 6-5, a 6-2-5, a 3-6-2-5, and a 7-3-6-2-5.  Judging by how much time u have in between chords, u can choose either one of those options to play with your 1 chord then go to 4:

Options Set #2

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[3] C / Bb-Eb-G *5 chord, Cm7
[4] F / A-Eb-G *1 chord, F9
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1] F / C-F-A
[2] G / B-F-A *2 chord, G9
[3] C / Bb-Eb-G *5 chord, Cm7
[4] F / A-Eb-G *1 chord, F9
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

[1] F / C-F-A
[2] D / C-F-A *6 chord, Dm7
[3] C / Bb-Eb-G *5 chord, Cm7
[4] F / A-Eb-G *1 chord, F9
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

And the list goes on and on.  Like I said ealier, u can experiement with the rhythm on these chords to make even mor options.  U can come in on the in between beats as well:

[1,2] F / C-F-A
[an] G / B-F-A *2 chord, G9
[3] C / Bb-Eb-G *5 chord, Cm7
[4] F / A-Eb-G *1 chord, F9
[1,2,3,4] Bb / F-Bb-D

Now, after u have found a passing chord or passing chord move that u like, WRITE IT DOWN AND TRANSFER IT TO EVERY KEY.  This way, it becomes a part of your music and then u won't even view it as passing chords.  U will view it as a progression within itself. 

This is how the pros do it.  They practice these moves over and over and over again until its a natural part of their music.  You can do the same thing.  If anyone has questions about what I've posted, feel free to ask!

[B3Wannabe]

For any chord, the most important notes are the 1, 3, and 7th (for extended chords like 9th, 11th, etc.). The 5th doesn't do much but reinforce what the other notes do, so it can be ommitted at anytime.

Also, if u have enough of those other notes, the 5th somehow sounds automatically w/out u even having to hit it. Don't ask me how, I just know it does cuz we did the experiment in class. Try this:

C major chord: C-C / E-C-E

Now, listen really carefully, and u can hear the G sounding all by itself. Pretty neat huh?

I forgot what it's called, but that has to do with the interaction of the C and E frequencies. I read about it somewhere. I think there's a math formula for it also.

[jude63]

in the past I though I heard other notes seem to sound in other chords also, I guess its a interaction of the notes or something like that

[T-Block]

O.K. karendj, I remember this post now. What I meant by a chord 1/2 step higher is this:

b4 chord, *a chord 1/2 step above ur target chord

B / A-Db-Eb-F *chord 1/2 step higher, B9 b5
Bb / F-Bb-D

The explanation I have should be a #4 instead of a b4 (I will go back and change it). Anyways, u see how the first chord is a B chord, then the next chord is Bb chord? Well, B is 1/2 step higher than Bb. So, it fits the explanation that the 1st chord is 1/2 step higher than the next chord.

So, the whole progression would look like this in number fomat:

1
#4
4

Then the notes:

F / C-F-A
B / A-Db-Eb-F *chord 1/2 step higher than next chord, B9 b5
Bb / F-Bb-D

Does that help?

[karendj]

Still not sure about this, but I'm not sure what to ask. Going to study this a few days. Thanks!!!