I want to know the real reason why musicans need top pay at a church?

[MoeDeep1]

LGM FAMILY

I been play for a long time.My skill level to me has been push to a advance level .I been working on building a music team for 6 long years.I had some good times and some bad times. What I don't understand is, If you have a gift and you can tell everyone that God has blessed you with it.  Then why ask for 100 to 350 for a church service.   I been playing all my life.  All I get is 50 bucks a Sunday.  Just enough to gas my cars up for the week.I know it hard times but come on now.  I know some people need the extra income in the house but thats when you go out and get a part time job.  I really don't care if you say "well that's our only income".  WHATEVER DUDE! I can't stand this.  If you have a gift and you need to bus the church funds out just to live,    then STOP saying its a gift from God.  It would sound better if you said I learned from the streets or a family member taught me.  If you don't like what I say,then I must be talking to you.  I'm mad because I been looking for a piano player.  I finally talked my pastor in to pushing up the pay due to our small church.  I been looking and looking.  All I can get is people that want 100 to 350 a service.  Now Let me break it down to you.  Our service is only 2 hours long.  Rehersal is 1 hour long.  We get in and we get out.  Now why would you charge a small church that kinda money.  Im sorry Im just really mad the fact that this is going on  .I HAD TO VENT.  NOW I CAN BREATHE!

[musician4life]

Real answer?

We call talk Biblical all we want, but it comes down to this, based on what I've been hearing: When Pastors are no longer making six and and even seven figure salaries for their "calling", then musicians won't expect so much for their "gifts".

Don't shoot the messenger.

...by the way, I've practiced for the minimum of six hours a day, five days a week, for as long as some LGM'ers have even been playing the instrument. I may have been gifted with some talent, but had I remained at the level I had been gifted with, only a storefront would tolerate me playing.

I appreciate the gift, but years of sacrifice went into the product as it stands today.

[MoeDeep1]

I feel you But lets keep it real.We are talking about Small churches.Not Dollar or Jakes.I to do the same playing at least 5 times a day and 4 to 5 times a week myself.I would be there now but I had to put this out.4 life I feel you man.Keep jammin

[under13]

Please learn how to write before you criticize professional musicians.

Honestly if you want a musician for your church to play for free, then you should be training the young people within the church to play.

[stilearnin]

I def. understand where u coming from. When i play I dont ask for anything, because I know where my blessings come from. i too, dont understand why these so called"professional" musicians try to rape little churches of every nickel and penny. So sad!!!!!

[cordney]

Please learn how to write before you criticize professional musicians.

Honestly if you want a musician for your church to play for free, then you should be training the young people within the church to play.

Typical U13

[betnich]

LGM FAMILY

I been play for a long time.My skill level to me has been push to a advance level .I been working on building a music team for 6 long years.I had some good times and some bad times. ?/?what I don't understand is,If you have a gift and you can tell everyone that God has blessed you with it.Then why ask for 100 to 350 for a church service. >:(I been playing all my life.All I get is 50 bucks a sunday.Just enough to gas my cars up for the week.I know it hard times but come on now.I know some people need the extra income in the house but thats when you go out and get a part time job.I really don't care if you say "well that's our only income".WHATEVER DUDE! I can't stand this.If you have a gift and you need to bus the church funds out just to live,  >:(then STOP saying its a gift from God.It would sound better if you said I learned from the streets or a family member taught me.If you don't like what I say,then I must be talking to you.I'm mad because I been looking for a piano player.I finally talked my pastor in to pushing up the pay due to our small church.I been looking and looking.All I can get is people that want 100 to 350 a service.Now Let me break it down to you.Our service is only 2 hours long.Rehersal is 1 hour long.We get in and we get out.Now why would you charge a small church that kinda money.Im sorry Im just really mad the fact that this is going on.I HAD TO VENT.NOW I CAN BREATHE!

I see from your profile that you play drums, and can understand your frustration. How small is your church? Under 100, 150 members? The membership and level of financial support really do determine musician/MOM pay, and the larger the church, the better the music Dept., that's the bottom line.

 - but let me answer from a (currently unpaid) keyboard player's point of view -

You might play with other musicians for Praise, choir and congregational songs - but do you play before service, processional/recessional, behind the Preacher, announcements, greeting time, offering, altar call, after service? All these (plus playing for Kids'/Youth/Mens'/Women's Choir, plus groups and Solos) can be expected of your main Keyboard player.

As for talk of gifting, yes we have a gift - but it's developed through experience and HARD WORK. Lots of bumps on the road to decent playing. Some musicians like to brag on themselves rather than God, and that I can understand being disgusted by...

[QCdrummer]

I'll give a few responses:

1-) My church couldn't afford a keyboardist when we started......so I did something about it. I learned to play. I went to the piano board on LGM asked a thousand questions, utilized youtube, and some dvd's, and I played for a while until we found someone. Granted I wasn't playin like a pro, but I held down the service pretty good.

2-)One bad apple spoils it for everybody......Meaning there are churches where the Pastor collects all the funds (And Pastors should have some funds, I'm not arguing that) but then he turns around and buys luxury cars and does everything else that he feels necessary with the church funds. (I just see it as a problem when a pastor with no day job drives a BMW SUV with the works and only has 50 members).....then turns around and tells the musicians "The Lord will bless you". Granted there are churches who really don't have alot of money, but the thing is EVERY church says they are working on limited funds. So how do you know who's telling the truth?

So musicians caught on to this game. They started letting churches know thier requirements up front. This way nobody gets tricked into anything. A good majority of keyboardist in the south start out charging at $100 and it'll go up to $600 or $700 depending on the size of the church. So that is the standard going rate and its been that way for a while. Now that we have the internet, there are tons of musicians who are just catching on to the fact that musicians do get paid alot of money.....


3-)In the words of my Panthers coach John Fox, "It is, what it is"..... so if you want cheap or free musicians for every sunday, you have to get beginners. Granted they won't know alot, but they would be cost-effective. That's why churches are paying the neccessary money because the service is so much different when you have SKILLED and ANNOINTED musicians.

So my suggestion is to do what I did and learn the keys yourself. This way everybody wins. The church will have its keyboardist, you'll know another instrument, and you can always get somebody to hold down a beat on the drums and certainly won't cost you alot.......

[drumzalicious]

I mean to be honest the Bible kinda covers this subject and if we are goign to preach the word lets walk it and not parts of it but ALL of it.

Also i would like you to go up to a mechanic that has spent years of his life learning how to fix cars and ask him to service a car for free. not once but weekly oh and then drive out to service the car.

being a musician is a skill and as the saying goes you get what you pay for. if you want to pay nothing dont expect to have a dynamite music ministry.

the bottom line is there are ppl who will play for $50 you just dont want them at your church you cant expect to have great service for dirt.

[MoeDeep1]

I understand everybody thoughts but I need everyone to see where Im comming from.We will pay the asking price but look at the structure of the service.2 hours on sunday and 1 hours on sat.Our church is roughly 75 to 100 people.1/3 is youth and the rest is the older crowd.I think I should of explained it better but when your upset with theses SOCALLED Professionals,that comes in and sound like Crap then want all this money.I guess some people never went thru things like this.Not to be rude but some of yall sound like your church is 200 strong.I will NEVER play at a church like that.I like small churches.So you Professional keep up the good work make that money. I rather recieve my blessings from God then big money.

[kodacolor]

I should of explained it better but when your upset with theses SOCALLED Professionals,that comes in and sound like Crap then want all this money.

Do you even audition these people?  Also, one way to bless a musician is to pay them.  Like you said before you get paid $50 and that blesses you because it gives you gas money.

[fretai03]

I'm sorry... I can't take you seriously.

Hope this helps!

[dude-on-drums]

I'm sorry... I can't take you seriously.

Hope this helps!

LOL 

My question is, why do small churches always go after quality musicians with the "we're a small church" speech.  If a small church really sees the value in having quality musicians, then that church should take their business plan and their stupid and pathetic "we're a small church" speech to the bank and get a loan.  LOL at small churches who get mad cause they cant afford quality musicians.  Get your weight up.  Get your estate up.  Steal other people's church members.  Have offering sheds.  Tell lies.  Make people feel good.  Hoop and hollar.  Crafty new year's slogans.  Poison communion juice with a money giving serum.  I dont care what you do SMALL CHURCH.  Just get that bread and stop being ridiculous.  ***mumbles under breath***...small church... 

[LaylaMonroe]

LOL 

My question is, why do small churches always go after quality musicians with the "we're a small church" speech.  If a small church really sees the value in having quality musicians, then that church should take their business plan and their stupid and pathetic "we're a small church" speech to the bank and get a loan.  LOL at small churches who get mad cause they cant afford quality musicians.  Get your weight up.  Get your estate up.  Steal other people's church members.  Have offering sheds.  Tell lies.  Make people feel good.  Hoop and hollar.  Crafty new year's slogans.  Poison communion juice with a money giving serum.  I dont care what you do SMALL CHURCH.  Just get that bread and stop being ridiculous.  ***mumbles under breath***...small church... 

In the middle of ROFL, I just *______________________________________________________*

[Hotsticks1]

I'm going to take this time to play with the LGM minds out here. Let's reverse the question...

Why do churches want good musicians for little or no pay???

I've been priviledged to play for many different size churches under many different circumstances...So I'm lookin from a few different angles

But anwyays, peep this. Lets say the church springs a leak...The church calls a plumber...He comes to check out the problem, you sign a contract, he fixes the problem and you pay him for it.

You don't become mad at the plumbers of the world because they require pay for what they do!!! And your surely don't say..."Well God gave you the gift of plumbing, you should do it for free" or even worse, "Well this is a small church, we're not going to be able pay you what you ask for fixing our toilets and cleaning up the crap on the walls, Just know that God is going to bless you"

[drumzalicious]

I understand everybody thoughts but I need everyone to see where Im comming from.We will pay the asking price but look at the structure of the service.2 hours on sunday and 1 hours on sat.Our church is roughly 75 to 100 people.1/3 is youth and the rest is the older crowd.I think I should of explained it better but when your upset with theses SOCALLED Professionals,that comes in and sound like Crap then want all this money.I guess some people never went thru things like this.Not to be rude but some of yall sound like your church is 200 strong.I will NEVER play at a church like that.I like small churches.So you Professional keep up the good work make that money. I rather recieve my blessings from God then big money.

Thats why you audition people. I dont know any minister of music that will let just some random joe come in and play for his church. Thats foolish. If they dont sound like you want then tell them no thank you. It's really not that hard.

[MoeDeep1]

That's cool.I hear eveybody in here but yall are still running from the question I asked earlier.You can sit there and talk trash about small churches and the ways they are now.I really don't think that theses MEGA churches didnt start like they are now.They started small.They went thru the same thing we are doing today.I can bet you they asked the same question back then.I don't know if this true or not but Most Mega churches don't even pay there musicans.I heard they tell them since God bless you to learn this craft then you can bless us with your talent.Thats why they come and Rape the small churches out there money.I been playing for some time and the pastor called me in one day and said "Why don't you charge a fee."I told them I do this for the love not the money.That's when they blessed me with a fee.Like I said THERE IS NO PROBLEM paying a piano players fee.Why so much.And before you comment Again"You college grads".Read the structure of the service.2 HOURS ON SUNDAY 11AM TO 1PM THEN 1 HOURS ON SAT FOR REHERSAL.I could even understan if we had 2 or 3 services a day but 1 service.I had a person tell me" you have to sacrfice to get what you want"Okay explain to me the sacrfice that Jesus did for us on the cross HUH!!! or that is some bibical talk that don't mean nothing.Come on!!!

[LaylaMonroe]

I understand everybody thoughts but I need everyone to see where Im comming from.We will pay the asking price but look at the structure of the service.2 hours on sunday and 1 hours on sat.Our church is roughly 75 to 100 people.1/3 is youth and the rest is the older crowd.I think I should of explained it better but when your upset with theses SOCALLED Professionals,that comes in and sound like Crap then want all this money.I guess some people never went thru things like this.Not to be rude but some of yall sound like your church is 200 strong.I will NEVER play at a church like that.I like small churches.So you Professional keep up the good work make that money. I rather recieve my blessings from God then big money.

Just for the record, "big money" is a blessing from God.

And for the record, you can receive [other] blessings from God in addition to receiving big money.

You don't have to choose.

And this is coming from someone who is, and has been for the past umpteen years, the member of a "small church." I'm a consultant for start-up churches, so I'm quite familiar with the woes of building ministry with limited funds, trying to find reliable, skilled and committed musicians, and all that.  Yeah, I get it.  It all comes down to priorities. I've seen start-up pastors pay $350-$400 for an organist and $150 for a drummer. I have a client now who is less than a year old and pays $1000/wk to his music department. None of them can usually afford to pay out like that comfortably, but they value good music, so they make sacrifices. That "small church" bit is an excuse. People spend money on what they value.

You have plenty of good advice, so at this point, you're just griping, not looking for answers. I mean, that's cool. We all get in gripe mode from time to time. I'm just pointing it out in case you didn't realize it. If you don't like going through all that, train a kid to play or teach yourself, or find a HS or college student who's willing to play for peanuts or *ahem* blessings.

And for crying out loud, don't expect (or demand, which is closer to what you're trying to do) others to do what you do. I work very hard in ministry. In fact, I can't think of a time that I didn't put more hours into ministry than I do into my day job. But because I work primarily with small and start-up churches, I can't think of a time that I've been adequately compensated for my services, either. I do what I do for the love of the work/ministry, and to have another stream of income. But, I don't knock those that make big bucks working in church administration. That's their ministry, this is mine. To each his own. Can you be okay with that?

[docjohn]

Very well put La Rue!!!!

How about a "solution" to the "real issue"---the "we are a small church" mentality.Unless your congregation is on a desert island that only has 50 people;get out into the community and SAVE some SOULS who will come to your church and it won't be a"lil" church NO MORE.!!!!!!!You want to BE served;why NOT DO like JESUS said"be servants,save some lost folks".

In words of a great evangelist" get OFF you blessed assurances,out of the pews ,and INTO the community";be THE "blessing",instead of standing there with your hand out;ever read where it's better to GIVE than receive?

Sounds like you want to be riding high(like the TD's,etc.)just too sad and lazy to DO THE work;btw-it's called covetting,last time I looked it's a sin!

[sugabear]

I call it "sto front chuch mentality." I spent the majority of my youth years in church like that. Not all, but a lot of the small churches have this mentality and some bigger ones as well. They refuse to think outside the box and continue to use yesteryear tactics to try and progress in today's church society. And then they deem you a sinner for challenging that mind set. There are a few pastors that I know that started out small but because they're meeting the needs of the members and potential members of their congregation they're continually growing and even passing up some of the other smaller churches that's been around longer. That "sto front chuch" mentality is detrimental to the body of christ.

Disclaimer--you don't have to be a store front or small church to have this type of mentality.