I have a ministry question for you guys.

[sugabear]

This isn't a topic you hear discussed in the church a lot. But, how would you minister to someone that has had a sex change (had the operation) and later on down the line decides that they want to be saved?

[stiksnmypocket]

This isn't a topic you hear discussed in the church a lot. But, how would you minister to someone that has had a sex change (had the operation) and later on down the line decides that they want to be saved?

wow this is a good one, all i can think of is sins are forgiven by repentance, but then in which way do u continue to live.....????    man/woman

umma fall back and read you guys post 

[robin of drummin]

wow and i thought i had questions but this one takes the cake, literally, but seriously this is not a self ministry you may have to go to some one that is more knowledgeable in the word to help, cause this about a soul in need, so don't take this one over your head go to spiritual leader.  Also while your doing that search the word for your self and see what Gods has to say.

[under13]

wow and i thought i had questions but this one takes the cake, literally, but seriously this is not a self ministry you may have to go to some one that is more knowledgeable in the word to help, cause this about a soul in need, so don't take this one over your head go to spiritual leader.  Also while your doing that search the word for your self and see what Gods has to say.

^^ What he said. Let your Pastor deal with this

[HEART-BEAT]

Now my first reaction was also WOW,  good one. But that's just our carnal thinking.

There is no sin greater than another, although is seems that way to the carnal eye. This should be handled just as anyone else wanting to repent before the Lord.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.

If they really want to enter in this narrow gate, they must be willing to offer their life as a living sacrifice which is "suppose" to be our reasonal service.

[docjohn]

How about "there's neither white/black,male/female,free/bond" In the KIngdom? GAL 5(?)

[sugabear]

wow and i thought i had questions but this one takes the cake, literally, but seriously this is not a self ministry you may have to go to some one that is more knowledgeable in the word to help, cause this about a soul in need, so don't take this one over your head go to spiritual leader.  Also while your doing that search the word for your self and see what Gods has to say.

I'm actually not dealing with this right now, but wanted to present a hypothetical because this isn't something that's discussed in most churches.

Now my first reaction was also WOW,  good one. But that's just our carnal thinking.

There is no sin greater than another, although is seems that way to the carnal eye. This should be handled just as anyone else wanting to repent before the Lord.

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son.

If they really want to enter in this narrow gate, they must be willing to offer their life as a living sacrifice which is "suppose" to be our reasonal service.

I like this response. Looking forward to some more individual responses.

[fretai03]

How about loving the person and showing them Christ regardless?

[dude-on-drums]

The answer to this question is quite simple.  Tell them to start living a saved life.  You just pick up from where you are.  Dont waste time trying to reverse or cover up what you've done in the past.  Without thinking about it too hard, it would make sense to say, "having a sexual relationship with anyone is out of question."  That part of the person's life is ruined.  Though it is a great sacrifice, the good thing is, being in a relationship, having a wife or husband and kids, is not a prerequisite to being saved.

Even though I have an answer to this "1 in a million" scenerio, let me say personally that I dont believe for one second that a person can be gay one day and straight the next.  I dont believe a person can be blind for 30 years and wake up seeing either.  I compare these over drastic changes to below zero temperatures to a scorching 110 degrees, all in the time it takes you to say a prayer and the prayer be granted instantly.  What are the odds?  What are the odds that the human brain, emotions and sense of attraction could even process and register such changes?  Its simply not possible.

[drummin4jc]

The answer to this question is quite simple.  Tell them to start living a saved life.  You just pick up from where you are.  Dont waste time trying to reverse or cover up what you've done in the past.  Without thinking about it too hard, it would make sense to say, "having a sexual relationship with anyone is out of question."  That part of the person's life is ruined.  Though it is a great sacrifice, the good thing is, being in a relationship, having a wife or husband and kids, is not a prerequisite to being saved.

Even though I have an answer to this "1 in a million" scenerio, let me say personally that I dont believe for one second that a person can be gay one day and straight the next.  I dont believe a person can be blind for 30 years and wake up seeing either.  I compare these over drastic changes to below zero temperatures to a scorching 110 degrees, all in the time it takes you to say a prayer and the prayer be granted instantly.  What are the odds?  What are the odds that the human brain, emotions and sense of attraction could even process and register such changes?  Its simply not possible.

Its called Faith.

[dude-on-drums]

Its called didn't happen, hasn't happened and will never happen. 

[drumzalicious]

Hmm. I mean they could obviously live their lives as they should being a Christian however when it comes to marriage and sex I'm not to sure. God obviously loves them still but he knows them as Frank not Franchesca so I'm not sure. Maybe reverse the operation?

[docjohn]

Yo drums,what about with "GOD all things are possible?" I don't know about a sex change,but there's a lot of "sight" being restored in the WORD.One minute someone is blind -to the point of death even;the next minute totally resored.

This didn't stop with JESUS,it still happens today.There's a very creditable account of a man dead for 3 days being resurrected;see CFAN (CHRIST for All nations,Rheinhart Bonke) in Fla.

As far as the sex bit;why not?(in the context of biblical constraints) In TIMOTHY it talks about "the state in which you are called";if they are either male of female when they are saved;they just need to walk that out. It would take a lot of prayer and counsel IF they were to "partner up",but that's kinda an out there issue.

Get them to salvation FIRST,trust LORD to work the rest out.

[JFunky]

This isn't a topic you hear discussed in the church a lot. But, how would you minister to someone that has had a sex change (had the operation) and later on down the line decides that they want to be saved?

...you present Christ to the person and ask if they want to accept Him in their life and heart.  The Holy Spirit takes care of the rest.  The Holy Spirit will minister to you on how to pray for the person. (soul) 

The answer to this question is quite simple.  Tell them to start living a saved life.  You just pick up from where you are.  Dont waste time trying to reverse or cover up what you've done in the past.  Without thinking about it too hard, it would make sense to say, "having a sexual relationship with anyone is out of question."  That part of the person's life is ruined.  Though it is a great sacrifice, the good thing is, being in a relationship, having a wife or husband and kids, is not a prerequisite to being saved.

Even though I have an answer to this "1 in a million" scenerio, let me say personally that I dont believe for one second that a person can be gay one day and straight the next.  I dont believe a person can be blind for 30 years and wake up seeing either.  I compare these over drastic changes to below zero temperatures to a scorching 110 degrees, all in the time it takes you to say a prayer and the prayer be granted instantly.  What are the odds?  What are the odds that the human brain, emotions and sense of attraction could even process and register such changes?  Its simply not possible.

...I agree with you 110 percent on the bold part.

...I disagree with you on the second paragraph.  Here's why:  We will never understand and know God's mind and way of thinking and doing things.  (Isaiah 55)  What ever happened to believing that God can give a blind man sight instantly or give a deaf man instant hearing/speaking abilities?  God himself is the Creator and giver of life and everything else.  (Exodus 4.11 speaking to Moses and dealing with his doubt/fears.)  Jesus himself did these sorts of miracles and instantly the people were healed.  (John 9 & Mark 7.31-37)

...here's where Jesus passes the "torch" unto the real church meaning His followerers, disciples; the people who really believe and obey His commands and show the fruit of the Spirit:  John 14.12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." 

...when He states "greater things than these...", he means in number and NOT better than what He's done.  Too many people are using this verse the wrong way.

...so you see, yes, people can be transformed instantly.  At the same time, there are those that do go through a process of restoration.  I agree with you on that part.  But we cannot stop having faith that God can't due these things instantly.  He chooses to do what he wants when he wants.  After all, he did create us; didn't he?

[sugabear]

Good responses people. Keep them coming. I asked the question in hopes that it would help me as well as others if ever confronted with this situation. Our first calls as Christians is to be ministers of the Gospel bringing souls to Christ, even those that seem to be living in unsavable (sp?) conditions.

[JFunky]

...as far as ministering to transgender people, homosexuals and lesbians...

...Our job is to present Christ to them and love them as an individual just as Jesus loves them. (Matthew 22.39)  Does that mean we have to accept there sin?  No.  That's the difference.  The cool thing is that Jesus states in Matthew 11.28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."  Some of these people know that what they are doing is wrong and want to change.  Others are so blinded by the sin that they don't want to change.  That's ok too.  We can't force anyone to do anything.  All we can do is present Christ and His word (drop the seed) and keep it moving.  The Lord takes care of adding those who are to be saved. 

...so sugarbear, we just pray with them and let ourselves be used by Him.  The Holy Spirit will give us the words that will impact the person.  There's no need to go get the Pastor or whoever if we are truly guided by His Holy Spirit. 

Mark 16

v.17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

v.18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

[dude-on-drums]

...you present Christ to the person and ask if they want to accept Him in their life and heart.  The Holy Spirit takes care of the rest.  The Holy Spirit will minister to you on how to pray for the person. (soul)  


...I agree with you 110 percent on the bold part.

...I disagree with you on the second paragraph.  Here's why:  We will never understand and know God's mind and way of thinking and doing things.  (Isaiah 55)  What ever happened to believing that God can give a blind man sight instantly or give a deaf man instant hearing/speaking abilities?  God himself is the Creator and giver of life and everything else.  (Exodus 4.11 speaking to Moses and dealing with his doubt/fears.)  Jesus himself did these sorts of miracles and instantly the people were healed.  (John 9 & Mark 7.31-37)

...here's where Jesus passes the "torch" unto the real church meaning His followerers, disciples; the people who really believe and obey His commands and show the fruit of the Spirit:  John 14.12 "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."  

...when He states "greater things than these...", he means in number and NOT better than what He's done.  Too many people are using this verse the wrong way.

...so you see, yes, people can be transformed instantly.  At the same time, there are those that do go through a process of restoration.  I agree with you on that part.  But we cannot stop having faith that God can't due these things instantly.  He chooses to do what he wants when he wants.  After all, he did create us; didn't he?

So Jesus passed the torch?  Anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing?  Then why is it that you have to go back over 2000 years in the past just to find traces of these miracles?  Gays cannot be straight.  For that to happen, it would cause a genetic overload and the human body and mind system would simply crash.  No human-being could survive such a transformation.  Like I said before, it would be like God changing the temperature from -10 degrees to 110 degrees in an instant.  We would all die from the shock!  Not saying God cant change the climate that fast and spare the existance of man.  I'm just saying He hasn't done it and will never do it.  

The essence of "attraction" cannot, has not and will never be altered.  It is beyond human or spiritual control.  Any man who says, "the Lord saved me from a penis addiction" or "the Lord has retired me from the ---- Fest committee" is a bold face liar  .  I encourage each and everyone of you to interview a real gay person.  Not one that is in church because they are under too much preasure to denounce whats really going on inside of them.

Biblically speaking, I still believe gays can make it to Heaven.  They just have to exercise enough mind and body control to refrain from committing gay acts.  Easier said than done but abstenance is proven.  It can indeed be done.

[JFunky]

So Jesus passed the torch?  Anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing?  Then why is it that you have to go back over 2000 years in the past just to find traces of these miracles?  Gays cannot be straight.  For that to happen, it would cause a genetic overload and the human body and mind system would simply crash.  No human-being could survive such a transformation.  Like I said before, it would be like God changing the temperature from -10 degrees to 110 degrees in an instant.  We would all die from the shock!  Not saying God cant change the climate that fast and spare the existance of man.  I'm just saying He hasn't done it and will never do it.  

The essence of "attraction" cannot, has not and will never be altered.  It is beyond human or spiritual control.  Any man who says, "the Lord saved me from a penis addiction" or "the Lord has retired me from the ---- Fest committee" is a bold face liar  .  I encourage each and everyone of you to interview a real gay person.  Not one that is in church because they are under too much preasure to denounce whats really going on inside of them.

Biblically speaking, I still believe gays can make it to Heaven.  They just have to exercise enough mind and body control to refrain from committing gay acts.  Easier said than done but abstenance is proven.  It can indeed be done.

...you know what though man?  Honestly, you can believe what you want to believe.  I know what the word says, has done and will continue to do in people's lives.  I know what I have seen with my own eyes.  I'm really not going to get into a back and forth battle with you because obviously, you're not the person that needs a Divine intervention to transform this sort lifestyle.  As I've stated before, non of us will ever know what God thinks or how he works.  No one.  He does as he pleases.  That's why the word states he is the same yesterday, today and forever. (Hebrews 13.8 )The reason why we Christians go into the word which has been out for hundreds of years is because it has been tried and put to the test.  After all of these years, it still remains and it is still transforming lives.  I do know this:  I serve a Living God who still performs miracles on a daily basis for those who believe in Him and even those who don't.  That's the thing with God and true Christianity.  It all has to do with Faith.  If you don't truly believe, then nothing will happen.  After all, the healthy don't need to see a doctor.  Right?  

[dude-on-drums]

...you know what though man?  Honestly, you can believe what you want to believe.  I know what the word says, has done and will continue to do in people's lives.  I know what I have seen with my own eyes.  I'm really not going to get into a back and forth battle with you because obviously, you're not the person that needs a Divine intervention to transform this sort lifestyle.  As I've stated before, non of us will ever know what God thinks or how he works.  No one.  He does as he pleases.  That's why the word states he is the same yesterday, today and forever. (Hebrews 13.8 )The reason why we Christians go into the word which has been out for hundreds of years is because it has been tried and put to the test.  After all of these years, it still remains and it is still transforming lives.  I do know this:  I serve a Living God who still performs miracles on a daily basis for those who believe in Him and even those who don't.  That's the thing with God and true Christianity.  It all has to do with Faith.  If you don't truly believe, then nothing will happen.  After all, the healthy don't need to see a doctor.  Right?  

Seems to me that you need to get off of LGM and go to the nearest Treatment Center for Autism, then go to the nearest Center for the Blind, then go to your nearest Technological Advances of War Heros Center (amputations), then come back to LGM with your instant praise reports on how miracles are still performed today.  Oh wait.  Wait one second.  Why is there even a need for such establishments?

And please dont think that I dont notice my questions going un-answered.     I only ask questions that people are not strong enough to truthfully answer anyway.    

[JFunky]

Seems to me that you need to get off of LGM and go to the nearest Treatment Center for Autism, then go to the nearest Center for the Blind, then go to your nearest Technological Advances of War Heros Center (amputations), then come back to LGM with your instant praise reports on how miracles are still performed today.  Oh wait.  Wait one second.  Why is there even a need for such establishments?

And please dont think that I dont notice my questions going un-answered.     I only ask questions that people are not strong enough to truthfully answer anyway.    

...hmmm, are you considering Scientology Sheen?