I have a ministry question for you guys.

[dude-on-drums]

...hmmm, are you considering Scientology Sheen? 

I only consider what makes sense.  Faith, no matter how people look at it, is based on odds.  The odds that something can, and will happen.  Most people have faith in things they have seen done before.  My problem is Jesus performing miracles over 2000 years ago that have never been re-produced by so called followers up to this time.  To me, a religious organization is only as good as its last claimed miracle.

As for the list above, and considering the teachings and examples Jesus set before us, I would think faith-based Christians would have put those establishments out of business by now.  So why aren't they?  And if they are, where are these miracles happening that you speak of?

And please let us be clear on what a miracle is.  Your light bill being unexpectedly and extremely low this month is not a miracle  (except in a mega church with predominantly poor black church members where that sort of thing is worth shouting over  )

A miracle is a work performed or an event that defies the laws of nature.  Meaning, no human by their natural abilities can take credit.

[JFunky]

I only consider what makes sense.  Faith, no matter how people look at it, is based on odds.  The odds that something can, and will happen.  Most people have faith in things they have seen done before.  My problem is Jesus performing miracles over 2000 years ago that have never been re-produced by so called followers up to this time.  To me, a religious organization is only as good as its last claimed miracle.

As for the list above, and considering the teachings and examples Jesus set before us, I would think faith-based Christians would have put those establishments out of business by now.  So why aren't they?  And if they are, where are these miracles happening that you speak of?

...ah, I was waiting for you to ask that.  I know for one that my church is one of the many churches that has had many of these miracles happen.  The cool thing is that we have the proof.  That's right. The reports with the doctors signatures here in Orlando and all of them in awe.  We had a man with full blown Aids healed.  My Pastors wife had Multiple Sclerosis and she was healed totally.  We had a blind child who now has restored vision.  We have many more testimonies too.

...I agree with you on the establishments still existing thing.  But you see Sheen, it has everything to do with Faith and Obedience.  Some cases of these diseases are of God passing judgement upon individuals.  Some are just things that happen in life.  (War Amps.)  We are called to pray believing in Him.  The individual also has to be believe.

...check this out though.  You know why there aren't a lot of miracles happening here in the U.S.?  The reason is that people have stopped believing in God.  They don't have faith.  Now, God is on the way out.  We've taken him out of schools and people get offended even if you say, "Merry CHRISTmas."  If you don't have faith, nothing will happen.  Jesus himself couldn't perform many miracles in his homeland due to the lack of faith from the people.  (Matthew 13. 54-58 )

...now take people in South America, Africa, Haiti and other places.  Some of these people have little to nothing and hope for everything.  Thus when they hear the Gospel of JesusChrist and hear of the power of healing, restoration and spiritual freedom, they accept it and believe it and God performs miracles.  It all has to do with faith.

...it all goes back to what I was stating earlier.  If an individual is not sick or is sick but doesn't want to see a doctor then why is the doctor needed?

A miracle is a work performed or an event that defies the laws of nature.  Meaning, no human by their natural abilities can take credit.

...so do you think a transgender or homosexual can be transformed into what God Created him or her to be in the first place?

[JFunky]

...here's another thing that just came to mind Sheen,

...some of us have heard the Lord's voice and spoken back to him and yet we still don't believe him fully.  We still have doubt.  Take the great Moses.  A man who held conversations with The Creator and yet he still had doubt and lacked faith.

Exodus 4

v.10 Moses said to the LORD, "O Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue."

v.11 The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD ?

v.12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say."

v.13 But Moses said, "O Lord, please send someone else to do it."


...God had his miracle ready to go, but because he had doubt, he didn't receive it. 

[dude-on-drums]

The answer is no.  I dont believe a transgender can be transformed.

So is it safe to say that you are a part of a church organization that can tap in to the power of God and heal the sick, give sight to the blind, correct autism and restore amputations?  And if I'm following you correctly, the receiving of miracles have the stipulations of "faith and obedience" attached to them but you never know what God is gonna do so you pray that miracles are granted reguardless of someone having faith or being obedient?

[musician4life]

Kevin,

Are you a Christian?

[JFunky]

The answer is no.  I dont believe a transgender can be transformed.

So is it safe to say that you are a part of a church organization that can tap in to the power of God and heal the sick, give sight to the blind, correct autism and restore amputations?  And if I'm following you correctly, the receiving of miracles have the stipulations of "faith and obedience" attached to them but you never know what God is gonna do so you pray that miracles are granted reguardless of someone having faith or being obedient?

...I'm talking about being transformed spiritually.  Are you meaning physically?  In the case of an amputee, what's wrong with a Vet. receiving an artificial leg when he has no means of getting one?  Doesn't God allow that to happen?

...as far as your other question, we're just called to pray believing in Him.  That's it.  God handles the rest.  Again, his ways are higher than ours.  He's God.  If he chooses to heal the person, amen.  If not, amen too.  God said let there be light.  Who am I to question who flipped the sun's switch. 

...so Sheen, I'll ask you a few questions.  Why can't God correct Autism?  Why can't God free a person from homosexuality or lesbianism?  Is God not healing anymore? 

[kodacolor]

I guess they would live for Christ as a eunuch.

[musician4life]

I guess they would live for Christ as a eunuch.

Hello. 

I play guitar and piano, too. 

[dude-on-drums]

Kevin,

Are you a Christian?

Yes sir!

...I'm talking about being transformed spiritually.  Are you meaning physically?  In the case of an amputee, what's wrong with a Vet. receiving an artificial leg when he has no means of getting one?  Doesn't God allow that to happen?

...as far as your other question, we're just called to pray believing in Him.  That's it.  God handles the rest.  Again, his ways are higher than ours.  He's God.  If he chooses to heal the person, amen.  If not, amen too.  God said let there be light.  Who am I to question who flipped the sun's switch. 

...so Sheen, I'll ask you a few questions.  Why can't God correct Autism?  Why can't God free a person from homosexuality or lesbianism?  Is God not healing anymore? 

I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism.  And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it.  Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus.  Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.

[Jedi3]

I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism.  And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it[/i].  Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus.  Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.

So because you can't see it or haven't heard about it it can't and/or doesn't happen?  Are you serious? That's a bit self-centered, don't you think? 

John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said , he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad , when they saw the Lord. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whosoever sins ye remit , they are remitted unto them; and whosoever sins ye retain , they are retained . 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came . 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut , and stood in the midst, and said , Peace be unto you. 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed : blessed are they that have not seen , and yet have believed.

Some things are true whether or not you see, hear, or even believe them.

[JFunky]

Yes sir!

I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism.  And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it.  Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus.  Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.

...maybe you need to pray for your area and area Pastors man.  Again, I was giving you biblical references but if you read my previous posts you will read that not only me but many others in my area have seen people being healed from all sorts of stuff.  Autism?  I've yet to see it but I know it'll happen.  Maybe it has happened by your area and you're not aware.  I really don't know.  I do know that I can't state that God isn't healing anymore because that just isn't the case in my area or church or in my life.  I see lives being restored all of the time.  I "had" bells palcy.  The doctor said I was only going to have limited movement in my face.  I said, "God will heal me" and prove otherwise.  I went in the car and prayed.  The next day I prayed and that evening my Pastor prayed for me as well.  That night I felt a tingly feeling in my face after the prayer.  The next day I had some movement where I didn't have any movement.  In 2 days I had complete movement of my nerves and muscles in my face.  110 percent healed till this day.  You see,  God is still God in 2010 just as he was over 2,000 years ago.  People are the ones that have turned away or against him.

...I do agree with you on one thing Sheen.... "some" Pastors have stopped believing in the power of God and have started believing in the power of $$$$$.  But again, the signs of Jesus follow those who believe him.   

...It's been great debating with you man.  You keep me on my toes. 

[drumzalicious]

Yes sir!

I never said God can't, Im saying He hasn't and He will never heal autism.  And I think its safe to say, God isn't healing anymore cause I don't see or hear about it.  Like you, I have to dig back over 2000 years just to trace these miracles and they are all linked to Jesus.  Jesus said we have the power through his name but, besides building mega churches and becoming filthy rich, I don't see any clergy men tapping in to God's power.

you realize that you are one person in a world of billions correct? things happen all over this world that could be considered miracles that you wouldnt know about so therefore who are YOU to say what hasnt been done and who are YOU to say what God WONT do?

You say you're a Christian but what kind of Christian are you? Do you believe the word? Do you believe the Bible? The Bible is something you have to either believe completely or not at all you cant believe the parts that make sense

God does a lot of things in this world that dont make sense. I could give you quite a few testimonies of things that are considered miracles that go beyond physical healing.

You want logic? Here's logic.

22 year old male.
College Student
No steady source of income. Maybe $600-$1100 a month
Cell Phone Bill = $140 a month
Utility Bills = $70 a month
New-Born Child = $400ish a month and rising.
Rent = $1,250 a month
Food = 60 a week/280-300 a month

This situation has  been going on since September.

So what makes senses is that this person would have NO MONEY!!! cant afford ANYTHING. Thats a very unbalanced income to expense ratio BUT GOD

Now tell me. How much sense does it make for me to have a SURPLUS ????

Yea the argument could be he needs to get a job. Yea well i have been trying that for the last 12-18 months applying at 4-5 places a month. Getting LIED to straight to my face by managers. At this point im looking at it more as a lesson to trust God because he has provided. Every month I just look to him and say God you know what I need so i trust you to do it again. And he does.

That doesnt make sense.

Doesnt make sense how GOOD he is and how much he provides.

[dude-on-drums]

Seems like you guys are getting all bent out of shape lol.  Reading your comments has led me to the conclusion that people have indeed "dumbed down" the true essence of a miracle.  You are dumbing miracles down to be favors, grace, blessings, accidents and luck.  Like I said, if you believe God can heal autism, then make your way down to the local treatment center and offer God's hand through prayer.   Get off LGM and prove me and a billion others wrong.  Otherwise, there is nothing to talk about.

And why do you tie your bills into the concept of miracle?  Are you saying you dont know how your bills get paid?

[drumzalicious]

Seems like you guys are getting all bent out of shape lol.  Reading your comments has led me to the conclusion that people have indeed "dumbed down" the true essence of a miracle.  You are dumbing miracles down to be favors, grace, blessings, accidents and luck.  Like I said, if you believe God can heal autism, then make your way down to the local treatment center and offer God's hand through prayer.   Get off LGM and prove me and a billion others wrong.  Otherwise, there is nothing to talk about.

And why do you tie your bills into the concept of miracle?  Are you saying you dont know how your bills get paid?

also the reason we cant just walk up into any clinic and say God heal these people is because it takes the faith of those people as well. If people dont have that faith then they wont get healed. Period.

also the reference to the bills is something to show you that while stuff may not make logical sense to you, having faith in God to work it out will change your circumstance.

Also dumbing down a miracle to favors? You need to learn to be grateful for the little blessings as well as the big blessings.

[dude-on-drums]

also the reason we cant just walk up into any clinic and say God heal these people is because it takes the faith of those people as well. If people dont have that faith then they wont get healed. Period.

also the reference to the bills is something to show you that while stuff may not make logical sense to you, having faith in God to work it out will change your circumstance.

Also dumbing down a miracle to favors? You need to learn to be grateful for the little blessings as well as the big blessings.

Well there it is.  There's your excuse for God not to heal.  People suffering from disease, birth defects, mental illness, physical handicaps and homosexuality all lack faith.  Whatever. 

I have seen this plenty of times in church.  I've seen people in wheel chairs go to the alter and the loud mouth preacher starts hollering out to God and asking for His healing power.  Then the preacher makes the person attempt to walk.  The person falls immediately and guess what?  The preacher then accuses the person of having a lack of faith.  Classic.  Always a catch all.  Always an excuse.  Its never the lack of faith from the preacher though lol!  And if I was trying to run a successful scam, it would never be my fault either lol!

[drumzalicious]

Well there it is.  There's your excuse for God not to heal.  People suffering from disease, birth defects, mental illness, physical handicaps and homosexuality all lack faith.  Whatever. 

I have seen this plenty of times in church.  I've seen people in wheel chairs go to the alter and the loud mouth preacher starts hollering out to God and asking for His healing power.  Then the preacher makes the person attempt to walk.  The person falls immediately and guess what?  The preacher then accuses the person of having a lack of faith.  Classic.  Always a catch all.  Always an excuse.  Its never the lack of faith from the preacher though lol!  And if I was trying to run a successful scam, it would never be my fault either lol!

nevermind. im not going to keep going about it.

[JFunky]

...so Sugarbear, how are you liking the thread thus far? lol   

[DetroitB3]

I can't speak for the ENTIRE world but I do know in my very small world, God did heal my grandmother of diabetes after having it for close to 40 years. The doctors were completely confounded and couldn't figure out why this 80 year old woman no longer needed to take the meds and had no traces of diabetes in her system anymore. Miracle?? I'd like to believe so.

As of 2008, we had a population of 6,692,030,277 people living on the Earth. (est) Now, unless I was able to personally follow each individual around for everyday of their lives and document the miracles that have been performed, or lack thereof, I would be wrong to say that God hasn't performed any miracles in the last 2000 years when their has been so many PERSONAL accounts of miraculous healing done all over the Earth.

I too , believe that a lot of what goes on in 'today's' church is junk and entertainment based , but I can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I know of many Christians/Pastors/Churches who are 100 percent legit with their walk with Christ and they have witnessed many a miracle..I just pray that you are able to witness something so magnificent in your time here on Earth and allow God to open your eyes to what he can do . If I'm to take the bible as the 100 percent truth and word of God, I'd be calling Him a liar and putting Him in a box if I made the claim that he's NOT going to be doing any more miracles..

When it comes to certain physical defects like autism and things of that nature, I do believe that in rare cases that child can be healed, but for the most part they are going to have to live their lives as such. Maybe God's NOT healing these people and still using them is a greater testimony than even healing them completely..living and telling of God's grace and mercy and not feeling sorry for themselves can cause 'regular' people to wonder why they have this peace that surpasses all understanding and a joy inside when clearly, they have these physical imperfections.

I don't like to argue when it comes to the bible but I don't see the harm in a group of people coming together and hashing out some everyday issues and concerns.just as long as everything is said in Love .I pray that you get what it is that you're searching for bro! Amen


*The man who knows something, knows that he knows nothing at all *   

[robin of drummin]

whoa i think we are getting way off of the question that was asked:  so regardless of his or her past mistakes and is seeking God, I mean truly seeking God, your saying a persons soul isnt more worth witnessing to, despite of a physical healing, but it all about the spiritual healing.

I have been born partially deaf to this day I am still believing in my faith I will be healed some day, till that day comes my focus is on my soul, and witnessing to some else to Jesus Christ

[docjohn]

Not to stray off the subject;if you want to "see" a miracle;consider salvation.I was dammed,doomed,blind,and dead in sin-for ETERNITY!!!!!!!!!

By the GRACE of GOD (JESUS) and POWER (HIS HOLY SPIRIT);I can "see,am alive,redeemned" forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If LORD can do this,dealing with a sex-change is NO big deal!!! COLOSSIANs makes it clear that "all things are for HIS purpose,GLORY,WILL,etc.".I suggest no matter how bizarre the situation looks to us,HE is in control.HE allows things in all our lives to manifest SOMETHING of HIM.

Take heart,HE iS ABLE!!!!!