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Author Topic: I have a ministry question for you guys.  (Read 12746 times)

Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2010, 10:23:35 AM »
Ok listen guys.  You cant continue to boast about what God can do.  The only thing that matters is what He will do.  What is the reputation of God?  What miracles is He known to perform or grant through men?  God can start throwing planet sized snow balls into the Earth right now, but will He?  Has He?  The argument is NOT what God can do.  He is all powerful.  Period.  Its about what He WILL do.

Will God miraculously reverse a surgery and change a man back to his original sex?  No.  Has he ever?  No.  Can He?  Yes.  Does it matter that He can?  No.  Does it matter that He won't?  Yes.

I'm not gonna sit here and let you all keep saying it depends on the reason a miracle is needed or it depends on the faith of the individual receiving the miracle.  Mark 4:35-40 throws those theories/excuses out of the window.  Jesus performed the miracle of calming a vicious storm for the disciples even though they lacked faith.

Mathew 9 also gives an account where Jesus performed the miracle of healing a paralytic based on the faith of others.  Not the paralytic himself.

Other than a few times in the books of Mathew and Mark, where the people requested Jesus to perform signs because of disbelief, Jesus never even questioned why someone needed a miracle.  He never refused His power for any reason either.  He performed miracles when people had faith and when they didn't have faith.  All they had to do was ask.

So being that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, how is it that we are not the "go-to" doctors of this world when all we have to do is ask for healing power?

My point is, maybe things have changed.  I just dont feel like God is operating in the same mannor or on the same scale as biblical times.

Offline docjohn

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2010, 12:38:00 PM »
DOD,your last statement about "what you feel about GOD",does what you "feel" define GOD? If your "feelings" are THE definitive force in the cosmos.then we don't need "GOD"-we just need you! Your attitude shows that you place SELF above GOD;a VERY dangerous place.

You have created an idol-you;to be above GOD HIMSELF.I beg you to reconsider and repent.It seems a lot of folks have posted to attempt to minister and nothing is piercing the heart.If you can't find ANYTHING useful in/of CHRIST;lets see YOU perform something!

Unless you are all- seeing and all-knowing(like someone else mentioned);None of us can hold a candle to CHRIST.John (baptisit) said "I am Unworthy to touch HIS sandals";in those days-HIS sandals would have probably been amply covered in road droppings.Yet JOHn realized even that was low enough for him to be ranked.Like JOHN said "I must decrease,HE must increase".

What's gone on (or is going on) to trigger this angst bro? praying 4 U

Offline JFunky

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2010, 01:12:39 PM »
Ok listen guys.  You cant continue to boast about what God can do.  The only thing that matters is what He will do.  What is the reputation of God?  What miracles is He known to perform or grant through men?  God can start throwing planet sized snow balls into the Earth right now, but will He?  Has He?  The argument is NOT what God can do.  He is all powerful.  Period.  Its about what He WILL do.

Will God miraculously reverse a surgery and change a man back to his original sex?  No.  Has he ever?  No.  Can He?  Yes.  Does it matter that He can?  No.  Does it matter that He won't?  Yes.

I'm not gonna sit here and let you all keep saying it depends on the reason a miracle is needed or it depends on the faith of the individual receiving the miracle.  Mark 4:35-40 throws those theories/excuses out of the window.  Jesus performed the miracle of calming a vicious storm for the disciples even though they lacked faith.

Mathew 9 also gives an account where Jesus performed the miracle of healing a paralytic based on the faith of others.  Not the paralytic himself.

Other than a few times in the books of Mathew and Mark, where the people requested Jesus to perform signs because of disbelief, Jesus never even questioned why someone needed a miracle.  He never refused His power for any reason either.  He performed miracles when people had faith and when they didn't have faith.  All they had to do was ask.

So being that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, how is it that we are not the "go-to" doctors of this world when all we have to do is ask for healing power?

My point is, maybe things have changed.  I just dont feel like God is operating in the same mannor or on the same scale as biblical times.


...hmmm, interesting.  I have to ask you this.  Why do you feel things have changed?  Were you expecting some sort of miracle in your life or a family members life and feel let down or disappointed?  Or is it that again you're just not seeing these things happen in your area?  
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2010, 03:11:11 PM »
Malachi 3:6-7


Numbers 23:19


James 1:17


1 Sam 15:29


Isiah 40:8; 55:11


Heb 13:7-8
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline drumzalicious

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2010, 03:33:22 PM »
Ok listen guys.  You cant continue to boast about what God can do.  The only thing that matters is what He will do.  What is the reputation of God?  What miracles is He known to perform or grant through men?  God can start throwing planet sized snow balls into the Earth right now, but will He?  Has He?  The argument is NOT what God can do.  He is all powerful.  Period.  Its about what He WILL do.

Will God miraculously reverse a surgery and change a man back to his original sex?  No.  Has he ever?  No.  Can He?  Yes.  Does it matter that He can?  No.  Does it matter that He won't?  Yes.

I'm not gonna sit here and let you all keep saying it depends on the reason a miracle is needed or it depends on the faith of the individual receiving the miracle.  Mark 4:35-40 throws those theories/excuses out of the window.  Jesus performed the miracle of calming a vicious storm for the disciples even though they lacked faith.

Mathew 9 also gives an account where Jesus performed the miracle of healing a paralytic based on the faith of others.  Not the paralytic himself.

Other than a few times in the books of Mathew and Mark, where the people requested Jesus to perform signs because of disbelief, Jesus never even questioned why someone needed a miracle.  He never refused His power for any reason either.  He performed miracles when people had faith and when they didn't have faith.  All they had to do was ask.

So being that Christianity is the largest religion in the world, how is it that we are not the "go-to" doctors of this world when all we have to do is ask for healing power?

My point is, maybe things have changed.  I just dont feel like God is operating in the same mannor or on the same scale as biblical times.

I dont know what to say to you. Honestly you have your own opinion and thats w/e it's no point in trying to debate this. Like the whole thing about pointing out my past experience and having God show up and make ways and open doors to allow me to pay my bills that dont make sense to you. To others it makes sense but like i said its your opinion and you are entitled to it.

IF people would just trust God more and let him direct their path a lot more you would hear more testimonies the fact of the matter is that everyone has problems trusting someone they cant see and touch so they refuse to relinquish all control unto God. Thats why you wont see that many miracles. Whether its the person trying to perform the miracle or the person trying to recieve the miracle (in reference to healing) someone in there is lacking confidence in God.

Offline sugabear

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2010, 04:13:37 PM »
...so Sugarbear, how are you liking the thread thus far? lol   
I'm loving the thread. It's very very informative. It's seems like most churches patty cake around certain issues and this is one of them. I have to say that I really dig Sheen when it comes to stuff like this (not that I 100% agree with him). He may seem to be controversial but his responses are always thought provoking, and if they don't do anything else, his responses should push us to read and study God's word even more and get a deeper understanding. After going back and forth with Sheen you should be prepared to minister to anybody. Keep provoking thought Sheen. A lot of Christians need it :).
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Offline tko05

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2010, 05:08:05 PM »
Mark 16: 17-18 says....
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

DOD, I respect your opinion, you have a right to it. But if we all claim to be Christians the word of God has to be our final authority. If you have some valid biblical proof that God will not perform any miracles today then state it. If not I'd really be carefull of what I say lest you find yourself fighting against God.  God doesn't play favorites (Rom. 2:11) What He's done for one person he'll do for anyone. So to say that God won't do miracles today goes  against what the bible teaches. Is God a liar then???  Romans 3:4 answers that.
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Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2010, 06:36:43 PM »

...hmmm, interesting.  I have to ask you this.  Why do you feel things have changed?  Were you expecting some sort of miracle in your life or a family members life and feel let down or disappointed?  Or is it that again you're just not seeing these things happen in your area?  


Here it is J.  Everytime someone goes back 2000 years to prove God's word just kills Him slowly.  But you know what?  People do it because making reference and reading the bible is like watching ESPN Classic highlights of God's greatest work.  My point is, Jesus made headlines through the power of God.  Its been over 2000 years.  He passed the torch, so, Who got next?

I feel like things have changed because there is no earth shaking buzz about what God is doing anywhere like biblical times.  In those times, miracles had such an impact, they spread throughout the land without even the help of youtube and facebook!  Lets face it, even Jesus was addicted to the buzz.  He knew the best way to spread God's word would be to demonstrate His power and authority through acts.  Jesus backed up His talk.  In this present day, people have dumbed down miracles to the point where "its a miracle to wake up every morning."  No, its a "blessing" to be in the land of the living.  You're supposed to wake up everyday if nothings wrong with you lolol.

It just seems like God's greatest work was done in the begining stages of Christianity.  Now that it is the world's largest religion, shouldn't the impact on the world be even greater?  Or should we keep counting bills being paid as miracles, thus strengthening the stereo-type that Christianity is the "poor man's religion?"

No disrespect to your situation Drumzalicious, but unless you can come on this board and tell us that you have absolutely no idea how your bills get paid, then you cant label it a miracle.  Miracles defy the laws of nature and human explanations.

And again, Im not saying that God cant do all things.  What Im saying is, what good is it to have electricity in your house if you cant turn the lights on?  Well, I guess for some people, its ok to continue talking about how much electricity you have even though the lights havn't been truned on in over 2000 years. 

Offline drumzalicious

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2010, 10:14:20 PM »
Here it is J.  Everytime someone goes back 2000 years to prove God's word just kills Him slowly.  But you know what?  People do it because making reference and reading the bible is like watching ESPN Classic highlights of God's greatest work.  My point is, Jesus made headlines through the power of God.  Its been over 2000 years.  He passed the torch, so, Who got next?

I feel like things have changed because there is no earth shaking buzz about what God is doing anywhere like biblical times.  In those times, miracles had such an impact, they spread throughout the land without even the help of youtube and facebook!  Lets face it, even Jesus was addicted to the buzz.  He knew the best way to spread God's word would be to demonstrate His power and authority through acts.  Jesus backed up His talk.  In this present day, people have dumbed down miracles to the point where "its a miracle to wake up every morning."  No, its a "blessing" to be in the land of the living.  You're supposed to wake up everyday if nothings wrong with you lolol.

It just seems like God's greatest work was done in the begining stages of Christianity.  Now that it is the world's largest religion, shouldn't the impact on the world be even greater?  Or should we keep counting bills being paid as miracles, thus strengthening the stereo-type that Christianity is the "poor man's religion?"

No disrespect to your situation Drumzalicious, but unless you can come on this board and tell us that you have absolutely no idea how your bills get paid, then you cant label it a miracle.  Miracles defy the laws of nature and human explanations.

And again, Im not saying that God cant do all things.  What Im saying is, what good is it to have electricity in your house if you cant turn the lights on?  Well, I guess for some people, its ok to continue talking about how much electricity you have even though the lights havn't been truned on in over 2000 years. 



its not that i dont know how my bills get paid its that random checks will come in right on time. I mean there is a lot of stuff i could go into detail on but i wont cause its pointless.

Also the thing is with these miracles that you seek they happen all the time just because you dont hear about them doesnt mean they dont happen. Thats all we are trying to get you to understand.

There are testimonies from my church every Sunday about someone who got healed from some sort of sickness and things like that. Companies calling saying we have canceled your debt dont worry about paying us. I mean just because YOU dont hear about it doesnt mean it isnt happening.

And yes me a person fully healthy will take someone saying "Bro i just felt led to give you this $100" as a miracle when I just found out my child has no diapers. Stuff where my mom calls me and says son you got a check for $950 in the mail and I'm getting an eviction notice. That stuff is just scratching the surface. So what it wasnt me getting healed from blindness or me stopping rain fact of the matter is a miracle is a miracle no matter how big or small and the only thing that determines how big or small it is would be personal opinion and personal perception.

Offline HEART-BEAT

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2010, 07:28:10 AM »
Bottom Line......

If you only believe what you see, you have no faith.

no faith, no Jesus!

Partial belief is non belief as partial truth is a lie!

Blessed are they that have not seen, yet believe!

This is a SPIRITUAL walk! The Bible is Spiritually discerned! The Spiritual realm is an INVISIBLE realm! One of the biggest problems with Christianity is the fact than man continually tries to naturally interpret it.
"I will Praise you, O Lord my God, with all my heart.." Psalms 86:12

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2010, 07:59:22 AM »
Bottom Line......

If you only believe what you see, you have no faith.

no faith, no Jesus!

Partial belief is non belief as partial truth is a lie!

Blessed are they that have not seen, yet believe!

This is a SPIRITUAL walk! The Bible is Spiritually discerned! The Spiritual realm is an INVISIBLE realm! One of the biggest problems with Christianity is the fact than man continually tries to naturally interpret it.

And there it is.
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Offline JFunky

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2010, 09:24:58 AM »
Here it is J.  Everytime someone goes back 2000 years to prove God's word just kills Him slowly.  But you know what?  People do it because making reference and reading the bible is like watching ESPN Classic highlights of God's greatest work.  

...I wouldn't state that by reading scripture, quoting it and preaching it would slow down Jesus' Gospel and teachings.  The Gospel is Life.  It is the reason why many of us are believers in Christ.  There are still many people that have not heard of Jesus' Gospel.  Many!  The church still has a lot of work to do other than sitting around trying to get rich.  

You know what though?  I see God's greatest work when I see lives come out of a drug addiction to accept Christ in their hearts and turn from that lifestyle.  I see God's greatest work when I see a marriage being restored and truly blessed when nothing else has worked for them.  I see God's greatest work when I open my eyes every morning and hear my wife and daughter.  I see God's greatest work on a daily basis man.


My point is, Jesus made headlines through the power of God.  Its been over 2000 years.  He passed the torch, so, Who got next?

...I like this a lot Sheen.  The answer:  We all do.  The "church".  His Followers.  The signs should be following us.  This is a tough thing for most to swallow even myself.  The church needs to turn back to seeking God's Presence, rendering themselves unto him and trusting in him COMPLETELY!  But my friend, this is also a sign.  It is a sign of the "end times."  Many will lose that first love for Christ.  Many will pervert the Gospel of Jesus.  Many will just stop believing.  Many will listen to false prophets and be fooled.  BUT, there is still a large number of His Followers that have not thrown in the towel and have said NO to sin and YES to Christ and His teachings.  They're spreading the Gospel of Jesus and are seeing lives restored both spiritually and physically.  There are many testimonies all over the world that will tell you God is still God, yesterday, today and forever.  

...Maybe you just need to pray for the ministers in your area.  Shoot, whose to say God isn't calling you to be the one to bring change to your area?  Ever think about that?  Who's to say God isn't knocking at your hearts door right now because you're the one chosen to be His Ambassador in your area?  hmmmm...
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

Offline JFunky

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2010, 09:34:13 AM »
Bottom Line......

If you only believe what you see, you have no faith.

no faith, no Jesus!

Partial belief is non belief as partial truth is a lie!

Blessed are they that have not seen, yet believe!

This is a SPIRITUAL walk! The Bible is Spiritually discerned! The Spiritual realm is an INVISIBLE realm! One of the biggest problems with Christianity is the fact than man continually tries to naturally interpret it.

+2
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2010, 11:15:05 AM »
Well because people are rating bills being paid and simply having a family on the same scale as God parting the Red Sea and Noah's Ark, this is a dead issue.  In fact, I've been looking 4 days for a pair of socks in my drawer.  When I find them, I will indeed call the event one of God's greatest miracles as well.

The end.

Offline JFunky

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2010, 11:20:07 AM »
Well because people are rating bills being paid and simply having a family on the same scale as God parting the Red Sea and Noah's Ark, this is a dead issue.  In fact, I've been looking 4 days for a pair of socks in my drawer.  When I find them, I will indeed call the event one of God's greatest miracles as well.

The end.

...lol.  As always, its fun debating with you.  8)
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Offline dude-on-drums

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2010, 02:45:39 PM »
Lol yes sir J!  Likewise!  And good one sugarbear!

Offline musician4life

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2010, 03:54:10 PM »
*takes a deep breath*

I left Christianity at age 19 for the very same reasons that Sheen has highlighted.

I attended a Pentecostal church all my life, and heard about the power of God three times a week, and I accepted it as fact. However, around age 18, it started to bother me that, for all I had heard of God's power, I had never seen it on the level that my Pastor and other Christians claimed it could manifest. I had heard people claim miracles that, in my opinion, could be explained in other ways, but....

...I put it out of my mind. Outside of the miracles, I never 'felt' the same thing that caused other Christians to faint, dance,  and run-around the church. I believed in my heart that I was giving my all, but I always felt like like what was true for everyone else, was not necessarily true for me.

So, at age 19, I decided I couldn't remain a Christian if it didn't feel real to me. Of course, this wasn't an easy transition, because after so many 'fire and brimstone' messages - you want to be CERTAIN that you're not making the wrong decision, because the consequences are .... extreme.

So, in so many words, I can feel where dude on drums is coming from. I felt like I should have had a first-hand experience of the power of God that was written about in the Bible after so many years of going to church. Church amounted to nothing more than emotionalism, sensationalism, and tithing and offering, in my experience.

It's not that I'm saying, 'I'LL NEVER BE A CHRISTIAN AGAIN!!1!" - it's just that I need more than a feel-good sermon, and questionable interventions of the divine in order to do that.

*exhales*

4HisGlory, don't ban me for being a heathen.

Offline JFunky

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2010, 05:43:21 PM »
...I for one appreciate your honesty.  *Ok, here it goes*
 
...I was born into the Pentecostal religion.  Grandson of a Pastor and raised in what is known as the "fire & brimstone" church.  We moved to the U.S. and found a little Pentecostal church and by the age of 12 while fasting at a youth camp, I was baptized with the Holy Spirit.  Why? idk. I wanted to feel God's Presence in my life and that is the way that God allowed me to feel a little bit of his Glory.  I continued to attend the church I was in with my parents but after that experience I knew there was something greater than the "don't do this, wear that" sermons that I was hearing.  I wanted to actually have a relationship with God but didn't know how.  I didn't know where to begin. 

...My family moved to my current church where I learned how to have a "relationship" with the Lord.  Although the sermons were strong, I was also being taught new things as to how to seek God and have a relationship with him. At the same time I was witnessing how God made and is still making many miracles at my church.  Even today that we've just completed a year under our new Pastor.  A recent one was during Holy Communion.

...m4L, I know where you're coming from.  I've been there.  I wondered many things about many Pastors and have seen many people that have been hurt by the so called church.  I've seen how some people dance around the church, speak tongues and after church go commit all kinds of sins.  I didn't question God on that.  I've always wanted to be different.  I've always wanted to learn what it was to walk with Christ.  That's it.  I remember growing up and people getting on me and my friends at church because we weren't speaking tongues etc.  It wasn't till later on in life that I had the opportunity to meet a truly Holy Spirit filled woman, which didn't even move a hair and spoke with a soft gentle voice, that I knew for a fact that God dealt with each and everyone of us differently.  She wasn't running around, acting crazy, with no type of control.  This lady was very much the definition of peace be still.


...I have childhood friends that are no longer in church because of the ignorance that went on and probably still goes on in some churches today.  Like I've stated before though, I see how God moves in my church and in my life.  The Gospel that is being presented in my church and in many other churches is transforming lives and is easy to understand and follow. lol 

...man, the biggest thing for us Christians is to have a relationship with God and to obey His commands.  If you were doing that but the "church" treated you wrongly, just know that God saw and still sees your heart.  But He wants you to trust Him fully and take your eyes off of the non sense of people.  When you do that, you'll see the gifts he has for you.  The thing is that it takes more than just attending church services.  Man you have my number, call me man.  I'd love to chat with you gentlemen.
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

Offline JFunky

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2010, 05:47:53 PM »
...btw, I doubt you'll get banned this time around. lol 
Psalms 144.1 - "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle."

Offline drumzalicious

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Re: I have a ministry question for you guys.
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2010, 04:22:18 PM »
Well because people are rating bills being paid and simply having a family on the same scale as God parting the Red Sea and Noah's Ark, this is a dead issue.  In fact, I've been looking 4 days for a pair of socks in my drawer.  When I find them, I will indeed call the event one of God's greatest miracles as well.

The end.

nah dude your missin it still.
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